Sitting in Oblivion, Livia Kohn

[Stigweard]

Three Pines Press proudly announces the publication of

 

Livia Kohn, Sitting in Oblivion

 

in late August 2010 (books will ship in September)

 

The book is an expanded revision of Seven Steps to the Tao, with more translated texts and extended comprehensive discussion of zuowang practice.

 

Prepublication offer is now available on the website, as is the list of contents and introduction.

 

Also, we are happy to introduce you to our newly refurbished website. GO CHECK IT OUT: www.threepinespress.com

[premeet01245]

good keep it up.

[johndoe2012]

Ebook can be bought for only $12 here - along with other books.

[Alchemistgeorge]

Anybody read this? Recommend it? Is it all theory? Is it practicable?

[johndoe2012]

.

Edited August 18, 2013 by chris d

[joeblast]

I dislike applying the term Oblivion to zuowang - while it may be sitting and forgetting, it should still be cultivating awareness. 'Oblivion' and 'awareness' are two opposites, as I understand the terms.

[寒月 Hanyue]

I dislike applying the term Oblivion to zuowang - while it may be sitting and forgetting, it should still be cultivating awareness. 'Oblivion' and 'awareness' are two opposites, as I understand the terms.

 

I just quite frankly dislike her book!

 

I have several volumes edited by Livia Kohn from decades ago. The scholarly work is great. Some of it is a bit dated now, and as per usual I don't always agree with the academics. But they are great and well worth reading.

 

Livia Kohn's more recent works however seem to be sliding and moving in a direction I can't quite fathom. Her experiential knowledge or lack of it, shines through in this updated version of an old books of hers.

 

There is much in 'Sitting in Oblivion' that is simply shocking. I was highly disappointed with this book, and don't recommend it. I might one day track down a copy of the original version 'Seven steps to the Dao', as I can't help but feel it is all the 'updates' that have turned it into a pile of steaming......well.

 

Her introduction to the topic wavers all over the place, and her best intentions to place and locate zuowang into a wider meditation context simply fail. Instead it comes across as muddled and confused and actually is detrimental to appreciating and understanding zuowang. Much is made of the alleged connection to Buddhist practises and vipassana and the shifts that occured during the Tang dynasty.

 

It should be noted that the directions academics take the available evidence is always telling. And the fact that they argue and debate and come to different conclusions, really leaves only ONE for us to take. That no one actually knows, and each guess is as good as the other. It is shame that they can't just tell you this, instead of trying to sell you their opinion as fact. If you read widely enough the picture becomes muddier then clearer.

 

Kohn misses some VERY important areas related to zuowang from a Daoist perspective and how it is understood and rooted in the actual classic from whence the term originates, the Zhuang Zi.

 

Her actual translation work is dry and occasionally leaves a lot to be desired, as Joeblast mentions about the title. She often seems to try and be clever and find a better/more unique translation, but does it actually transmit the meaning behind the name/term?

 

The only point of the book, really is to read the zuowang lun. Just avoid the packaging and that includes what Kohn tries to explain zuowang to actually be.

 

 

Best,

[konchog uma]

snowmonki,

 

any recommendations of good texts/books to read about zuowang?

 

thanks

[寒月 Hanyue]

snowmonki,

 

any recommendations of good texts/books to read about zuowang?

 

thanks

 

Not really.

 

My picture of it is painted from many little pieces from all over. Nothing large all in one place. That is why I jumped at getting Kohn's book, it was a whole book looking at zuowang. But she goes so broad with the concept it all becomes a bit muddled.

 

Zuowang was first mentioned texturally in the Zhuang Zi. To quote from Kohn's book;

 

“I’m getting there!”

“How so?”

“I can sit in oblivion!”

Confucius was startled: “What do you mean, ‘sit in oblivion’?”

“I let my limbs and physical structure fall away, do away with perception and intellect, separate myself from body-form and let go of all knowledge, thus joining Great Pervasion. This is what I mean by ‘sitting in oblivion’.” (see Watson 1968, 90; Graham 1981, 92; Mair 1994, 64; Roth1997, 310; 2010, 198)

 

"Zuowang here is an advanced state of meditative absorption....However, the Zhuangzi overall remains rather vague as to the exact procedures of meditation" Livia Kohn.

 

Zuowang is generally viewed as the end result, the state achieved rather than the practice method. The seated meditations, jingzuo, jinggong, etc in Daoism are seen as working towards this. And as we all know, those methods vary depending on the sect and the time period.

 

To draw on what I've written elsewhere --

 

'Master Nan say that the Daoist theory of qimai first emerged from Zhuang Zi. And it is also within Zhuang Zi that we have the first textual reference to the Daoist practice of Zuowang. A primary method of cultivation. "The term tai chong, (太衝, written slightly later as 太冲), is clearly linked to a similar term in Zhuang Zi, da tong 大通, which other translators have rendered as Transformational Thoroughfare or Universal Thoroughfare." This is the little known column between Heaven and Earth, from which comes the qijing bamai, but most notably the chongmai, renmai, dumai. To quote again; "Hence, the sages did not call them chong, du, and ren, but referred to them [collectively] as the grand thoroughfare. The name grand thoroughfare refers to the arising ascent of essence qi within the body and does not only mean the sea of blood." Luo Dong-yi.

 

Why is this relevant?

 

Well lets return to Zhuang Zi but look at the Chinese with the above in mind;

 

墮肢體，

黜聰明，

離形去知，

同於大通，

此謂坐忘

 

"I slough off my limbs and trunk,' said Yan Hui, 'dim my intelligence and depart from my form, leave knowledge behind and become identical with the Transformational Thoroughfare. This is what I mean by 'sit and forget'. "

 

James Legge translates it "My connexion with the body and its parts is dissolved; my perceptive organs are discarded. Thus leaving my material form, and bidding farewell to my knowledge, I am become one with the Great Pervader. This I call sitting and forgetting all things."

 

The last two lines have also been translated as;

 

"going along with the Great Thoroughfare, this is called sitting and forgetting."

 

Now this previously obscure line actually makes sense, it puts the 'state' of "zuowang" that results from this identification and awakening of the energy-body in perspective. This 'picture' suggests that the practice of zuowang, an idea which has always maintained a central place in Daoist cultivation, is intimately related to an awareness of and awakening to the da tong/tai chong often equated with the zhongmai. As well as an opening of the whole energy-body via the qijing bamai, if we are to go with Zhang Zi-Yang's Bamai jing (eight vessel classic), and then Li Shizhen's 'Qijing bamai kao' (study of eight vessels).

 

We should note that the last line 此謂坐忘 (ci wei zuo wang) states "This is what I call/mean by 'zuowang'". So everything written up to that point is describing what is then referred to AS zuowang. It doesn't say, and then I enter zuowang, or then I can attain zuowang. So the description of zuowang is everything that comes before that line. Meaning that identification with datong (transformational thoroughfare) IS the practice of zuowang.

 

Why is that important? because now instead of simply being a lofty mental state, we can see that the shift in consciousness is and always was viewed as related to changes in the energy-body.

 

"However, the Zhuangzi overall remains rather vague as to the exact procedures of meditation" Livia Kohn. Really?

 

墮肢體，

duo zhi ti,

refers to the body falling away,

 

黜聰明，

chu cong ming,

refers to letting go of senses/intellect,

 

離形去知，

li xing qu zhi,

refers to leaving form and leaving knowledge,

 

同於大通，

tong wu da tong,

refers to merging with 'da tong' (viewed as the mother of the 'bamai')

 

此謂坐忘

ci wei zuo wang,

refers to how the above is understood as 'zuo wang'.

 

Feels like describing progressive stages of cultivation practice to me.

 

The real question then arises, is this sought through wuwei, or youwei?

 

So that is a summary of many little bits n pieces of interesting but from my reading less well known aspects relating to zuowang.

 

Best,

Edited November 17, 2012 by snowmonki

[konchog uma]

brilliant thank you

 

i had the same impression about zuowang, no definitive source for the method. Those lines from the stories of master Chuang always struck me, thanks for the clarification about them.