Sexual vocabulary

[Trunk]

A few thoughts re: sexual vocabulary...

(Talking here as a TTBs member, not in moderator-role.)

 

I see a real western cultural deficiency in sexual vocabulary. The cultural psyche has basically 3 modes of talking about sex: 1, repression by convention, not talk about it at all. 2, use sterile clinical names ("penis", "vagina") or 3, use words that either are vulgar or border on vulgar ("cock", "pussy"). None of those options have style, warmth, refinement, art. But they're what's readily available, what we've all been taught by just growing up.

 

Some of the eastern terms ("jade stalk") show more art, more love of language and of sex... and sometimes we can use those terms - but they're really mostly out of place in english.

 

It's a sad situation and calls upon us to be original in our language, to make up ways of talking about sex that have... art and humanity. ... in a culture where there isn't really much of that.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

A few thoughts re: sexual vocabulary...

(Talking here as a TTBs member, not in moderator-role.)

 

I see a real western cultural deficiency in sexual vocabulary. The cultural psyche has basically 3 modes of talking about sex: 1, repression by convention, not talk about it at all. 2, use sterile clinical names ("penis", "vagina") or 3, use words that either are vulgar or border on vulgar ("cock", "pussy"). None of those options have style, warmth, refinement, art. But they're what's readily available, what we've all been taught by just growing up.

 

Some of the eastern terms ("jade stalk") show more art, more love of language and of sex... and sometimes we can use those terms - but they're really mostly out of place in english.

 

It's a sad situation and calls upon us to be original in our language, to make up ways of talking about sex that have... art and humanity. ... in a culture where there isn't really much of that.

 

 

It's a somewhat unfair assessment trunk. Terms such as jade stalk, and 'playing the jade flute' where created in a time where it was a serious 'no no' to use the correct terms in literature, so these terms where a kind of 'means to an end'. Seriously, I've never heard anyone in China actually use the term 'jade stalk'(except in films about ancient times ie. 'sex and zen' is a possibility). Their usage of sexual terms is actually just as bad as ours...if not worse(and vulgar I might add)

 

I don't think it's the word, it's the manner and tone of the usage, which is lost in a forum. For example, using the above term you used, if I said this to a girl: "yeah! Suck on my jade stalk!", it's much the same as if I used the word cock is it not? However I could change the tone of my previously vulgar sentence and say it in a cute, longing way and it would then, possibly, become more acceptable.

 

Tonality is the key.

 

edit: typo

Edited June 28, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yeah, I think "jade stalk" is just another euphemism. Perhaps more poetic than saying, "check out my pole" or something, but still, a word that's not clinical, but not vulgar.

 

HOWEVER, in general I do agree with what you are saying. I think there are several areas of culture, not just sex, that are pushing on our language's limitations. Pretty soon here we are going to get a massive shift in language and vocabulary in general as our culture outgrows our language.

 

I also think that, of the categories you listed, Trunk, they all stem from category one. Sex isn't really something to talk about, and the only time you are really allowed to talk about sex is in an emotionally detached, clinical setting.

 

If you aren't discussing it professionally, then you are discussing it, as you put it, in a vulgar way. Heck, people even refer to having sex as "doing the nasty". I mean, sure, some people can get pretty nasty when they get it on (not to be confused with the "let's get it on" that some referees say to start a mixed martial arts fight, though there is humping and proper hip action is a must), but the usage of terms in that way kind of reflects the attitude that it is, well, nasty, and not fit for conversation outside of academia.

Edited June 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[voidisyinyang]

A few thoughts re: sexual vocabulary...

(Talking here as a TTBs member, not in moderator-role.)

 

I see a real western cultural deficiency in sexual vocabulary. The cultural psyche has basically 3 modes of talking about sex: 1, repression by convention, not talk about it at all. 2, use sterile clinical names ("penis", "vagina") or 3, use words that either are vulgar or border on vulgar ("cock", "pussy"). None of those options have style, warmth, refinement, art. But they're what's readily available, what we've all been taught by just growing up.

 

Some of the eastern terms ("jade stalk") show more art, more love of language and of sex... and sometimes we can use those terms - but they're really mostly out of place in english.

 

It's a sad situation and calls upon us to be original in our language, to make up ways of talking about sex that have... art and humanity. ... in a culture where there isn't really much of that.

 

 

Real sex can't take place with using words. The language of sex is telepathy of the heart.

[Trunk]

It's a somewhat unfair assessment trunk. Terms such as jade stalk, .. China ..

My point was not that "Chinese culture is perfect" but that

art and beauty in popular western sexual vocabulary is lacking.

 

I don't think it's the word, it's the manner and tone of the usage,..

Certainly tone is an important part of it, but to say that the words are not part of it also??? Unrealistic. Both tone and words are parts.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

My point was not that "Chinese culture is perfect" but that

art and beauty in popular western sexual vocabulary is lacking.

 

 

And my point is you should go read some western romantic poetry if you want to find that(there is plenty of art and beauty in it). Chinese literature and poetry go hand in hand. And the terms you refer to are, for the most part, written in classic Chinese literature. There is an extremely thin line between Chinese classics and poetry, mostly they blend togther. The rules of Chinese poetry are different to western ones, mostly based on tone(Chinese is a tonal language)and the imagery certain characters placed together creates.

 

 

Certainly tone is an important part of it, but to say that the words are not part of it also??? Unrealistic. Both tone and words are parts.

 

The meaning/vulgarity of a word are simply the meaning/vulgarity of a word that are placed on it by your mind. A word is not intrinsically vulgar.

 

Don't get me wrong Trunk, you or I, or anyone, could create some new words today.... but how long would it be before before they were debased? Or laughed out of the English language?

 

People don't talk in poetic terms in everyday life, sad but true. My point was simply that the terms you refer to are not in common usage, and that they were created as a poetic means in order get around the conventions of the day.

 

edit: bad html skills

Edited June 28, 2010 by Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

[Sloppy Zhang]

The meaning/vulgarity of a word are simply the meaning/vulgarity of a word that are placed on it by your mind. A word is not intrinsically vulgar.

 

I completely agree with this, but at the same time other people have meanings of various words as well. And some words are just considered vulgar by more people than others.

 

Case in point, in the orgasm without ejaculation thread there was some discussion about the word "slut". It was used, some people mentioned that the word could be considered offensive, and the rebuttal was that the original use was not intended to be taken as it is popularly taken.

 

But you can't ignore the fact that if I call a woman a slut, even if I say it really, really nicely, most people are not going to receive it as a kind word.... even if I really mean to say she's just really, really good at sex.

[CarsonZi]

I see where you are going with this Trunk and I agree. The lack of different choices around sexual words in English is a good indication (IMO) of our inability in Western society to treat sex like a natural and spiritual connection between humans. I personally like "lingam" and "yoni". It's similar to how certain cultures that live in the Arctic for example have hundreds of different words that mean "snow". For the amount of emphasis that is put on sex here in Western society you would think we would have hundreds of words for sexual anatomy. Some that are vulgar, some that are clinical, and some that are spiritual. Doesn't seem to be the case.

 

Love!

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

But you can't ignore the fact that if I call a woman a slut, even if I say it really, really nicely, most people are not going to receive it as a kind word.... even if I really mean to say she's just really, really good at sex.

 

That's a good point, but by the same token she could choose to ignore it. The root meaning of the word slut actually has nothing to do with women...even slovenly ones.

 

The 'C' word in my country and N.Zealand and Australia can actually be used as a term of affection toward another male, or even to mean someone is a bit silly. I've seen some raised eyebrows from north Americans when someone from the above countries have used it, but what are you gonna' do?

 

 

 

For the amount of emphasis that is put on sex here in Western society you would think we would have hundreds of words for sexual anatomy.

 

Love!

 

Carson, the sexual obsession is worldwide. There is no Asian spiritual mecca where people really talk like that.

 

I wish there were. I really do.

 

The next time my gf comes over I'm gonna try the "would you like to practice on the jade flute today?" line, knowing her she'll end up in fits of laughter, and I'll be very unlikely to be able to hear those melodic tones More likely I'll get injured.

 

But I'm definitely gonna give it a try.

[Sloppy Zhang]

That's a good point, but by the same token she could choose to ignore it. The root meaning of the word slut actually has nothing to do with women...even slovenly ones.

 

Yes, because telling other people to get over something whenever you act out of line usually works

 

*warning, offensiveness ahead*

 

"Blondes are dumb."

"Hey, I'm offended!"

"Hey, stupid slut, which actually doesn't have anything to do with women, how about you choose not to get offended you dumb bitch, which doesn't even make any sense because you're not a dog!"

 

 

The 'C' word in my country and N.Zealand and Australia can actually be used as a term of affection toward another male, or even to mean someone is a bit silly. I've seen some raised eyebrows from north Americans when someone from the above countries have used it, but what are you gonna' do?

 

You cannot imagine all of the ensuing hilarity that my mind is coming up with while imagining various cultural misunderstandings right now.....

 

Carson, the sexual obsession is worldwide. There is no Asian spiritual mecca where people really talk like that.

 

I wish there were. I really do.

 

The next time my gf comes over I'm gonna try the "would you like to practice on the jade flute today?" line, knowing her she'll end up in fits of laughter, and I'll be very unlikely to be able to hear those melodic tones More likely I'll get injured.

 

But I'm definitely gonna give it a try.

 

You should talk to her in a different way each day.

 

One day, try obscure Chinese euphemisms.

 

The next day, shift gears to a more clinical approach.

 

If that's too cold, get hot and heavy with some dirty talk.

 

Then maybe ease up with some modern euphemisms.

 

Followed by a return to the olden days by visiting classical Western terminologies.

[CarsonZi]

Hey Ninpo

 

Carson, the sexual obsession is worldwide. There is no Asian spiritual mecca where people really talk like that.

 

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear. I didn't mean to say that sexual obsession was a "Western" thing....I know it is not. What I was meaning to say is that the English language could benefit from having a wider variety of terms for the sexual anatomy. Some that are clinical, some that are vulgar and some that have a spiritual connotation to them (and perhaps some that span the entire spectrum as well). The English language seems to lack spiritual terms for the sexual anatomy.

 

Sex/no-sex (depending on your persuation and your personal preference for spiritual practice) is an important part of spiritual practice. Wether one chooses to be celibate, chooses retention, chooses left-hand path tantra or any other approach to the sexual aspect of life, it is an important part of the spiritual journey to address the sexual aspect of being human. To negate the import of bringing sex into the spiritual realm is to do us all a disservice. If one wishes to be liberated, then one has to deal with the "sex issue"....it can not be denied. But it is difficult to put the proper emphasis on sex in regards to spiritual practice when our English vocabulary is limited to clinical and vulgar terms. Just my opinion.

 

Love!

Edited June 28, 2010 by CarsonZi

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Hey Ninpo

 

 

 

Sorry, perhaps I wasn't being clear. I didn't mean to say that sexual obsession was a "Western" thing....I know it is not. What I was meaning to say is that the English language could benefit from having a wider variety of terms for the sexual anatomy. Some that are clinical, some that are vulgar and some that have a spiritual connotation to them (and perhaps some that span the entire spectrum as well). The English language seems to lack spiritual terms for the sexual anatomy.

 

Sex/no-sex (depending on your persuation and your personal preference for spiritual practice) is an important part of spiritual practice. Wether one chooses to be celibate, chooses retention, chooses left-hand path tantra or any other approach to the sexual aspect of life, it is an important part of the spiritual journey to address the sexual aspect of being human. To negate the import of bringing sex into the spiritual realm is to do us all a disservice. If one wishes to be liberated, then one has to deal with the "sex issue"....it can not be denied. But it is difficult to put the proper emphasis on sex in regards to spiritual practice when our English vocabulary is limited to clinical and vulgar terms. Just my opinion.

 

Love!

 

That's well put actually CarsonZi, I see what you mean. The spiritual aspect.

 

I'm getting an overriding urge to put some 'jade flute' comments though. I better go....well, a few won't hurt.... oh the temptation....

 

"It is like a jade flute pointing to the moon, don't look at the jade flute or you'll miss all that heavenly glory!"(for heavenly glory please read: wide expanse encompassing everything)

 

"It's not the jade flute you were dealt, it's the way you play it."

 

"A jade flute by any other name is not a jade flute."

 

"Is that a jade flute in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?"

 

I could really run with this one but I'll spare you all.

 

Apologies. I'm out.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Apologies. I'm out.

 

You're doing it wrong.

 

It's gotta go in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The air.... that is.... when you play it.... the jade flute.... of course....

 

Edited June 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

You're doing it wrong.

 

It's gotta go in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The air.... that is.... when you play it.... the jade flute.... of course....

 

 

Ahhhhhh.... hence the term 'Blow....', It's all clear now!

 

I said I'm out, stop tempting me

[Sloppy Zhang]

I said I'm out, stop tempting me

 

I'm sorry, I can't stop. It's so hard.....

 

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

It's so hard.....

 

 

Again with the jade flute references!!!!

[Sloppy Zhang]

Again with the jade flute references!!!!

 

Hey, I wasn't the one who..... brought it up......

 

 

But you don't have to keep responding! You can just.... pull out.... and wait for a more constructive post to......... be written (thought I was going to do something there, huh? )

 

 

 

[Trunk]

I do like the word "vitality". I find it descriptive and communicates, travels well into english. I like "essence", also, but it's not as readily understandable by others. Both "bedroom arts" and "pillow arts" work.

 

"Body wisdom disciplines" and "body wisdom arts" both work well, though they are much broader than jing gong. But they communicate well and work across traditions.

 

I was talking to a friend of mine, she's a tutor and was helping a student write about a poem that had a lake metaphor in it. We had a good discussion about how water is used to refer to essence. "Waters of adolescence" was a phrase that her student could use. That worked, said a lot with a little.

 

We also talked about the process of "clouds and rain". Essence being refined by Light, rising nourishing, descending again. "Just like the water cycle" my friend said. "Exactly." There's often wisdom about the alchemical process, about our bodies, in these terms.

 

There's options beyond just "silence / clinical / juvenile" if anyone has any interest and creativity.

 

- Trunk

[Eric23]

Last Gods

by Galway Kinnell

 

She sits naked on a rock

a few yards out in the water.

He stands on the shore,

also naked, picking blueberries.

She calls. He turns. She opens

her legs showing him her great beauty,

and smiles, a bow of lips

seeming to tie together

the ends of the earth.

Splashing her image

to pieces, he wades out

and stands before her, sunk

to the anklebones in leaf-mush

and bottom-slime--the intimacy

of the visible world. He puts

a berry in its shirt

of mist into her mouth.

She swallows it. Over the lake

two swallows whim, juke, jink,

and when one snatches

an insect they both whirl up

and exult. He is swollen

not with ichor but with blood.

She takes him and sucks him

more swollen. He kneels, opens

the dark, vertical smile

linking heaven with the underneath

and licks her smoothest flesh more smooth.

On top of the rock they join.

Somewhere a frog moans, a crow screams.

The hair of their bodies

startles up. They cry

in the tongue of the last gods,

who refused to go,

chose death, and shuddered

in joy and shattered in pieces,

bequeathing their cries

into the human mouth. Now in the lake

two faces float, looking up

at a great maternal pine whose branches

open out in all directions

explaining everything.

 

 

[ShaktiMama]

I do like the word "vitality". I find it descriptive and communicates, travels well into english. I like "essence", also, but it's not as readily understandable by others. Both "bedroom arts" and "pillow arts" work.

 

"Body wisdom disciplines" and "body wisdom arts" both work well, though they are much broader than jing gong. But they communicate well and work across traditions.

 

I was talking to a friend of mine, she's a tutor and was helping a student write about a poem that had a lake metaphor in it. We had a good discussion about how water is used to refer to essence. "Waters of adolescence" was a phrase that her student could use. That worked, said a lot with a little.

 

We also talked about the process of "clouds and rain". Essence being refined by Light, rising nourishing, descending again. "Just like the water cycle" my friend said. "Exactly." There's often wisdom about the alchemical process, about our bodies, in these terms.

 

There's options beyond just "silence / clinical / juvenile" if anyone has any interest and creativity.

 

- Trunk

 

I had a boyfriend, a tantric and Tai chi practitioner, whose first language was French. He found speaking to me in English tiring and harsh, "not good for love" he said, "the energies are so different."

 

One day he started whispering to me in French. I don't speak french other than some basics I learned in 9th grade and certainly nothing that would come to the sophistication level of pillow talk.

 

I asked, "what are you saying?"

 

He smiled, "very bad things".

 

I smiled back, "you could be telling me to take out the garbage and i would still think it was lovely."

 

s

[de_paradise]

Sloppy Z has got it. You can use any words to get the meaning across, its difficult to stop. Once you understand the tonality and pause and metaphor its easy. I often have sexually loaded discourse with women mundanely checking out my groceries, they often are absolute masters.

[Trunk]

Last Gods

by Galway Kinnell

 

Beautiful.

 

.. whose first language was French. ... lovely."

 

I'm reminded of some scenes of Roberto Benigni, one in "Night on Earth" and another (below). There's just so much *joy!*, the heart was so overflowing and such art.

 

 

I don't know italian (except maybe "vulva" and "pistolino"), but it's pretty clear what he's saying. Though he put the actress on the spot no doubt, his full heart carried it off well.

[RiverSnake]

A few thoughts re: sexual vocabulary...

(Talking here as a TTBs member, not in moderator-role.)

 

I see a real western cultural deficiency in sexual vocabulary. The cultural psyche has basically 3 modes of talking about sex: 1, repression by convention, not talk about it at all. 2, use sterile clinical names ("penis", "vagina") or 3, use words that either are vulgar or border on vulgar ("cock", "pussy"). None of those options have style, warmth, refinement, art. But they're what's readily available, what we've all been taught by just growing up.

 

Some of the eastern terms ("jade stalk") show more art, more love of language and of sex... and sometimes we can use those terms - but they're really mostly out of place in english.

 

It's a sad situation and calls upon us to be original in our language, to make up ways of talking about sex that have... art and humanity. ... in a culture where there isn't really much of that.

 

Yep, everyone pick up a copy of Twilight and get educated!

[Birch]

http://www.nailmaster.ru/fuck.html

 

Aha;-)

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.nailmaster.ru/fuck.html

 

Aha;-)

 

Fuck the Fucking Fuckers.