Penn and Teller: Two Morons Learn Martial Arts

[DalTheJigsaw123]

[Brian]

...

[fizix]

Ah, and yet again Penn and Teller pissed off another person

 

I live in Las Vegas and have met them both personally, seen their amorphous, world class show many times; they are by far NOT "morons". Comedic/magic/showman geniuses perhaps, but not morons. There is a reason they are in giant portrayal fixed on The Rio.

 

 

Penn Jillette and Teller are characters within the real people, this people do not understand; look for the hidden reasons of their doings, they are truly the most open-minded and friendly people you could meet in person, despite their apparent inflated sense of self-esteem on cable tv.

Edited July 1, 2010 by fizix

[Brian]

...

[fizix]

For the record my post was not referring to you =)

[Stigweard]

LOL ... its actually worth a look. True they crassly bust the perimeter in many places but its otherwise OK.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_3BSk2TbK4

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aB3y10i_T9E

[Stigweard]

And part III

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggroj7w9J5k

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Ah, and yet again Penn and Teller pissed off another person

 

I live in Las Vegas and have met them both personally, seen their amorphous, world class show many times; they are by far NOT "morons". Comedic/magic/showman geniuses perhaps, but not morons. There is a reason they are in giant portrayal fixed on The Rio.

 

 

Penn Jillette and Teller are characters within the real people, this people do not understand; look for the hidden reasons of their doings, they are truly the most open-minded and friendly people you could meet in person, despite their apparent inflated sense of self-esteem on cable tv.

You live in Las Vegas??!

[fizix]

Yes, born and raised. The mountains have tremendous energy. So does the strip.

[VCraigP]

First of all

Penn & Teller = ENTERTAINMENT

 

I found this episode Hilarious.

 

You couldn't make humor fodder out of this stuff if there wasn't plenty of material to work with.

 

There IS a tremendous amount of Bullshit in the Martial Arts world.

 

Of course for every example they provide it would be easy to find better examples which prove the opposite point.

for example watching a TKD master break multiple unspaced boards with a flying jump turning back kick would be a tad more impressive than breaking a hundred spaced boards with choppy chops.

 

As far as chi kung goes I would be hard pressed to find a better example of someone who is a weak example than poor Dena. Though she certainly must have known P&T would skewer her so I can only wonder what she was thinking. She was certainly entertaining and demonstrated a lot of the reasons M.Chia's system lacks credibility. This is not to say that Dena lacks ability or any accomplishment. What P&T provided after editing did make her look REALLY SILLY. Unfortunately I don't get the impression that Dena can provide basic grounded instruction that would give a newcomer a positive impression. This IS an important issue for an instructor of qigong. Also her pronunciation of Chi Kung was fairly atrocious.

 

In the end, if a potential student of martial arts or even gigong were to use as their research this episode of P&T then they obviously don't have what it takes to do research or be a student of anything.

 

Leon Basin

To try to take apart this "expose" by P&T is like shooting fish in a barrel. But to do so also takes them far too seriously. They are entertainers after all, and I found it funny.

 

PS - I have several decades of MA training in hard styles, IMA, Qigong, including Healing Tao.

 

Craig

[Dr. Dcup]

Yes, born and raised. The mountains have tremendous energy. So does the strip.

 

I sent you a pm, if you didn't get it let me know.

[Guest paul walter]

First of all

Penn & Teller = ENTERTAINMENT

Leon Basin

To try to take apart this "expose" by P&T is like shooting fish in a barrel. But to do so also takes them far too seriously. They are entertainers after all, and I found it funny.

 

Craig

 

 

In all fairness Craig, Penn and Teller, like Dawkins, Randhi and The Skeptics et al are dangerous anti-scientific bigots. They are at the vanguard of the anti-revolution that is reacting so badly to the not-so-new-physics etc. Their intent is to spread counter-information on anything that doesn't meet their understanding of the world. They represent the end of the line for their kind, but like religious fundamentalists and dictators would rather take everyone with them than face the fact that they should really change their paradigm. Everything passes for entertainment these days, since everything has been made simply "information". When that stage is reached one thought is as good as another, which is the kind of expectation what these clowns play on. See their other shows on "sprituality" and "complementary medicine" to see how easy it is to tar whole fields of knowledge with the same stupid brush. Likre the amazing Randhi they go out of their way it seems to find the worst in the field--this is good copy for them but bad news for everyone else. Paul

Edited July 4, 2010 by paul walter

[Martial Development]

It's just entertainment, you say? Fine, but I am not obligated to let theirs be the last word on the subject. I found that composing a response was every bit as entertaining as, and quite a bit more gratifying than watching the show. It was fun. If any of you think you aren't entitled to reply to such a media hack job, then you (and not I) are taking it too seriously.

 

Seriously though, you ought to be concerned when your peers are labeled as criminally insane grifters. Whether or not you personally consider the teachers in that show to be your peers, the public probably will, and one day you may be judged guilty by association.

 

People still consider the original "Karate Kid" to be a documentary! They don't know the difference between disingenuous entertainment and education until you show it to them.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Martial Development

[island]

[fizix]

It's just entertainment, you say? Fine, but I am not obligated to let theirs be the last word on the subject. I found that composing a response was every bit as entertaining as, and quite a bit more gratifying than watching the show. It was fun. If any of you think you aren't entitled to reply to such a media hack job, then you (and not I) are taking it too seriously.

 

Seriously though, you ought to be concerned when your peers are labeled as criminally insane grifters. Whether or not you personally consider the teachers in that show to be your peers, the public probably will, and one day you may be judged guilty by association.

 

People still consider the original "Karate Kid" to be a documentary! They don't know the difference between disingenuous entertainment and education until you show it to them.

Yes, you're just about right and I agree with you in a sense in your view, but people need to think for themselves, and more importantly...

 

"Seriously though, you ought to be concerned when your peers are labeled as criminally insane grifters."

 

This is in general, a Taoist/Spiritual discipline forum, I'm sorry if I don't have much sympathy for anyone whose life or fate or attentiveness in his spiritual practice is swayed or heavily influenced by Penn and Teller's show. Spiritual practice is about taming the rampant emotions borne of the ego, clearing and instilling peace in the mind, hearing the Tao hear you; by fixating on ultimately irrelevant 'conflict', one acquires a habit of doing so repeatedly. Thoughts attract like thoughts. You must have some trust that people know what is best for them. Spiritual attainment is not about lashing out at the 'other side', defending your side, that is a mechanism of the ego, we want to cultivate the Tao, not the ego, or in Biblical metaphor, cultivate God not the devil. They are comedian magicians, they are blatant 'entertainers', satirists, not self-proclaimed authorities, not an ego-maniacal tv personality like Glenn Beck who have actual, sinister agendas, just funny voices. Hell, Teller doesn't even talk.

 

"one day you may be judged guilty by association."

 

A wise man once told me, "People who judge never matter, people who matter never judge."

 

If anyone in martial arts or spiritual practice is excessively offended by a show like that, they are merely not in proper understanding of the nature of their own practice.

 

Excellent quote island

Edited July 7, 2010 by fizix

[Brian]

...

[Bum Grasshopper]

In the show they neglect to mention that practicing martial arts is fun!

 

-A fun form of exercise that just may save your life some day

-strengthens mind and body

-lowers stress

-increases tolerance of others

-increases confidence

-increases awareness of our surroundings

 

To be this is not bullshit.

[Martial Development]

fizix, you are missing the point. This is not about taking offense, or believing yourself to be above it . You are a citizen of this world, and if you don't live by its rules then you will die by them. So you shouldn't be encouraging anyone to abstain while the rules are being made, based upon the "facts" on the record.

 

Here is a quote, by a man who changed the world: "The victor will never be asked if he told the truth."

 

I promise that is forum-relevant, but if you can't see how, there here is another one: "Ask not for whom the bell tolls." There must be a difference between "spiritual" and egotistically self-absorbed.

 

P.S. Real wolves aren't impressed by solipsism, they will bite you all the same.

[Christoph]

the title of their show is an apt description...Bullshit! It's like the ultimate straw man argument on every one of their shows. I find the way they generally mock people in the voice over distasteful to say the least.The editing is very heavy...seems like a producer goes out in the field,films people and then P&T mock them from their studio...I call bullshit! and its not very entertaining either,laughing AT people at their expense is NOT funny...it promotes the same attitudes that still cause people to make "Bruce Lee" noises if they find out you train Kung Fu.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Most IMA people live in fantasy land.

Edited July 7, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[-O-]

Most IMA people live in fantasy land.

 

agreed.

 

Trick to quell buyers remorse: maintain the persception handed to you the moment you were persuaded to buy (believe, commit,... [enter preference here]).

 

Wonder what P&T would do with the KL clips floating around?

[Old Man Contradiction]

agreed.

 

Trick to quell buyers remorse: maintain the persception handed to you the moment you were persuaded to buy (believe, commit,... [enter preference here]).

 

Wonder what P&T would do with the KL clips floating around?

 

KL=Kunlun?

 

Kunlun is pretty funny.

 

I forgot to mention that most EMA live in fantasy land too.

 

I practice martial arts (taiji, i-chuan, etc..) and I am forced to realize that there is a big difference in what people call taiji, or what people call Hsing-I, or Yichuan, or Bagua. There are very few people that teach these martial arts in a practical, nuts and bolts, into the nitty gritty way. I walked into my teacher's school wanting to learn about Qi and what not, one of the first things I heard him say was to forget about qi. You need to do the hard physical work, you need muscle to make any of this work. And in it's simplest form, that is what most IMA people are lacking. Karate on the other spectrum uses muscle, but in a very unintelligent fashion, and to an unhealthy degree. Martial arts should be about thinking about the body, situations, and opponents critically, not just subscribing to beliefs.

[gendao]

forget about qi. You need to do the hard physical work, you need muscle to make any of this work. And in it's simplest form, that is what most IMA people are lacking.

Actually, qi is what most of them are lacking. Because it takes years of neidan to actually cultivate it - and without it, you're just doing slow-motion ballet.

 

The real IMA masters talk about spending 4 (celibate) years on average opening their microcosmic & macrocosmic orbits & the ability to rotate and move their dantian around. This is basically the equivalent of Level 3 MoPai. Now since 99.9999% of IMA players have never even come close to achieving any of these foundational neigong levels - it's no surprise that they can't make the arts work, either. Because they are missing all the most important ingredients and are instead merely mimicking the motions like cargo cults.

[island]

'Scholars of the lowest class, when they have heard about it, laugh

greatly at it. If it were not (thus) laughed at, it would not be fit

to be the Dao.' - Tao Te Ching Chapter 41

[Old Man Contradiction]

Actually, qi is what most of them are lacking. Because it takes years of neidan to actually cultivate it - and without it, you're just doing slow-motion ballet.

 

The real IMA masters talk about spending 4 (celibate) years on average opening their microcosmic & macrocosmic orbits & the ability to rotate and move their dantian around. This is basically the equivalent of Level 3 MoPai. Now since 99.9999% of IMA players have never even come close to achieving any of these foundational neigong levels - it's no surprise that they can't make the arts work, either. Because they are missing all the most important ingredients and are instead merely mimicking the motions like cargo cults.

 

Actually, qi is not the only thing they are lacking. You are right, it takes a long time and a lot of work. I don't know about other people's kung fu. I do know that there are multiple ways of getting to the same place. Chen Xiaowang's fa jing looks weak in comparison to what I am aiming for. I've seen it in one man, so I decided to keep learning from him. Fortunately and unfortunately he doesn't use classical terminology, so I can not discuss the orbits and neigong with you from an informed perspective. Although, historically I've come to realize that what I am being taught are these old methods, just taught via pragmatic language, drawing from science and physics much of the time. About celibacy, all I can see and say is that conserving energy is a good thing.

 

'Scholars of the lowest class, when they have heard about it, laugh

greatly at it. If it were not (thus) laughed at, it would not be fit

to be the Dao.' - Tao Te Ching Chapter 41

 

I can believe that Lao Tzu was a great master. I can also believe that this particular passage is accurate. But just because kunlun, or the lady in the video, is funny to people does not mean it is "the Dao". Additionally, the vagueness of the passage and the Daoist's ideal state of oneness with the Dao, the passage could be talking about the social actions, the practice, the philosophy, or the religion of said daoist.