Help me find a martial art

[Cameron]

Buddy, at a higher level, don't you think advanced martial artists are working with the same principles? It seems when I see high level aikido, BJJ or Bagua guys in action they are using similar principles like taking there oppnents center/base, using leverage to use least effort to do most damage or subdue the agressor/opponent.

 

Of course BJJ and aikido for the most part lack the serious internal training of Chinese inner MA but you can always supplement.

 

How was the Mass seminar?

 

Cam

[turtle]

You should look into Wing Chun. I think it is incredible. I will also say that FMA (Inosanto Kali*) is great.

Everybody has a preference for which type of martial arts is best. I think it depends on who YOU are, how your built, how your body moves.

[Buddy]

Cam,

No. IMA has a different body method. BJJ is great, all loosey-goosey and stuff. But no pengjin.

[Cameron]

Exactly! But how about if I supplement internal training and add pen jing to my BJJ or Aikido? Ken Cohen says Pen Jing is like a basketball that can bounce or rebound an oppononent off and also help prevent injuries.

 

Or should the different arts be kept sepertate? I guess Ime implying if you or Kumar started training BJJ or something you would probably use internal MA principles like pen jing in your grappling or whatever, no?

 

Cam

[sean]

I guess Ime implying if you or Kumar started training BJJ or something you would probably use internal MA principles like pen jing in your grappling or whatever, no?

Damn, that would be some next generation shit, pengjin integrated into grappling.

 

Hey Cam, I forgot to tell you, I am going to start supplementing my BJJ with an incredible traditional Indian kushti/catch wrestling class I found in Berkeley ... I called them up and they do free sparring and everything.

 

Sean

[Christoph]

Damn, that would be some next generation shit, pengjin integrated into grappling.

 

Hey Cam, I forgot to tell you, I am going to start supplementing my BJJ with an incredible traditional Indian kushti/catch wrestling class I found in Berkeley ... I called them up and they do free sparring and everything.

 

Sean

 

Watch out for Turkish oil wrestling!!Oh and BJJ is only gay if you make eye contact.

I was actually thinking of quitting BJJ and training Bagua at a nearby school.I have got 4 years invested in BJJ but the very thing that makes it so effective also keeps me in a constant state of injury. It is like being in an abusive relationship!

[sean]

Watch out for Turkish oil wrestling!!Oh and BJJ is only gay if you make eye contact.

I was actually thinking of quitting BJJ and training Bagua at a nearby school.I have got 4 years invested in BJJ but the very thing that makes it so effective also keeps me in a constant state of injury. It is like being in an abusive relationship!

Yeah, to be honest it messes me up a bit too. Limpin around with bruises for a few days. Yoga and joint rotations help. Hot epsom salt baths. I wish I could afford weekly massages. I just ordered some ZMA and cissus, hopefully that helps too.

[Buddy]

Sure, why not. My senior Tim Cartmell has done so to great success. But he would diagree with me that the

two are different.

[Christoph]

Sure, why not. My senior Tim Cartmell has done so to great success. But he would diagree with me that the

two are different.

 

ZMA is goos because heavy sweating depletes your magnesium.

 

Buddy

Are you familiar with Park Bok Nam??His school is 5 minutes from me.

[thaddeus]

Sure, why not. My senior Tim Cartmell has done so to great success. But he would diagree with me that the

two are different.

I think there is just as much bad taiji and bagua out there without peng as there is people practicing BJJ without Peng. The difference is in the talk vs the walk.

Also, there isn't a portuguese word for peng...yet. But every now and again, you encounter someone with "presshoor" (pressure)..

T

[Cameron]

Damn, that would be some next generation shit, pengjin integrated into grappling.

 

Hey Cam, I forgot to tell you, I am going to start supplementing my BJJ with an incredible traditional Indian kushti/catch wrestling class I found in Berkeley ... I called them up and they do free sparring and everything.

 

Sean

 

 

Tourist

 

 

 

Watch out for Turkish oil wrestling!!Oh and BJJ is only gay if you make eye contact.

I was actually thinking of quitting BJJ and training Bagua at a nearby school.I have got 4 years invested in BJJ but the very thing that makes it so effective also keeps me in a constant state of injury. It is like being in an abusive relationship!

 

 

I am just coming back after almost a year of little training from a knee injury. I think I'll be good now and fully recovered but take it slow for awhile. I am trying to be honest I know the no competition thing in aikido will start to bother me after awhile. And Bagua is cool I may supplement my BJJ with that so I can train something into old age.

[Smile]

I wasn't following this thread but after reading a bunch of posts I'm amused how many people practicing Aikido lowered its value when it comes to applying it in a real fight.

 

Have you forgoten the concept of ki development? If you successfuly cultivate internal power/ki/fajin, the techniques, styles or methods won't matter much anymore.

Edited August 4, 2006 by Smile

[Cameron]

I think Aikido works very well. I havent gotten into a streeet fight in my whole life so do MA for fun. My guess is if anyone ever wanted to fight me I would either try to talk them out of it or just kick them in the nutsack and walk away.

 

Unless we are talking about Lozen of course who is supposedly deadly with knives.

 

Cam

[Christoph]

I think Aikido works very well. I havent gotten into a streeet fight in my whole life so do MA for fun. My guess is if anyone ever wanted to fight me I would either try to talk them out of it or just kick them in the nutsack and walk away.

 

Unless we are talking about Lozen of course who is supposedly deadly with knives.

 

Cam

 

 

Well everone does martial arts for different reasons but for me personally I dont really think I could get into Aikido even though the sword work is interesting. Aikido has some problems when it comes to real life applications.The entire system stems from the idea that people are wearing swords. Wrist locks can be great if someone is trying to grab your weapon(cops)or you need to subdue someone who isnt exactly attacking you(cops) otherwise they do not work.No amount of Ki will help you if someone is trying to visciously beat you down unless it helps you run faster:(

[Cameron]

Maybe it's because I studied with more martial aikido group, but I have no doubt my aikido teachers(or myself) could use aikido as practical self defense.

 

But as far as I can tell, the aikido would take on a more agressive nature than what probably the majority of aikido you see practices. Like one of my teachers wouldn't hesitate to punch you in the face or kick you in the balls as an atemi before slapping on a nikyo lock or whatever....

 

But if it hits the ground, yeah, Ime glad I also studied some BJJ..

[Christoph]

Maybe it's because I studied with more martial aikido group, but I have no doubt my aikido teachers(or myself) could use aikido as practical self defense.

 

But as far as I can tell, the aikido would take on a more agressive nature than what probably the majority of aikido you see practices. Like one of my teachers wouldn't hesitate to punch you in the face or kick you in the balls as an atemi before slapping on a nikyo lock or whatever....

 

But if it hits the ground, yeah, Ime glad I also studied some BJJ..

 

Is there a certain branch that is harder style like what you studied??Was it an overly formal environment??There are a few schools in my area but I havent been there yet to watch a class.One thing that kind of turns me off about the training I have seen is the uke(?) running with your hand sticking out then getting violently tossed around.

[Buddy]

I am familiar with Park Bok Nam.

[Cameron]

Is there a certain branch that is harder style like what you studied??Was it an overly formal environment??There are a few schools in my area but I havent been there yet to watch a class.One thing that kind of turns me off about the training I have seen is the uke(?) running with your hand sticking out then getting violently tossed around.

 

 

I studied with Juba Nour Sensei in NYC Link he was uchi deshi for chiba sensei who was a personal student of O'sensei but is probably the more martial of the modern aikido people.

 

I also like BJJ and yes aikido does generally have the more formal aspect than BJJ. Still kind of debating whther I want to do Aikido or BJJ or something else like Bagua or Shing Yi long term myself. I am more interested in healing at the present moment than fighting so no need to rush it I guess..

[Smile]

No amount of Ki will help you if someone is trying to visciously beat you down unless it helps you run faster:(

Lol, you are funny. Are you one of those people that don't believe in the displays of fajin by Tai Chi masters? O'Sensey did the same demonstrations, I believe.

[Christoph]

Lol, you are funny. Are you one of those people that don't believe in the displays of fajin by Tai Chi masters? O'Sensey did the same demonstrations, I believe.

 

No I dont really believe in the demonstrations by masters but I like to think I have an open mind. An Akidoka taught me how to do un-bendable arm in about 2 minutes. I left my cynical side behind after I turned 30.

[Buddy]

Fajin is the expression of "trained power" not qi.

[Smile]

Fajin as a word is used in many settings. My Tai Chi teacher is using it to describe a specific training to develope internal power. Some use it to describe the energy or skill that comes with this training. It is trained power + qi + many other things combined.

[Buddy]

No it has a particular meaning in martial arts. "Fa" means to express or emit. "Jin" or "jing" means specifically trained power.

"Qi" is energy or breath. There is never any need to obfuscate the training methods of the IMA.

That was done quite well in the past.

[Smile]

No it has a particular meaning in martial arts. "Fa" means to express or emit. "Jin" or "jing" means specifically trained power.

"Qi" is energy or breath. There is never any need to obfuscate the training methods of the IMA.

That was done quite well in the past.

And of course, your view is that Qi is not something you train or transform through cultivation, is that correct? Are you familiar with Jing-Chi-Shen concept? If you say "Chi", what do you mean?

 

Fajin is used by Tai Chi and Chi Kung people a lot but it doesn't mean it's a different concept from Jing-Chi-Shen development through meditation. The applications and training are different, the processes that are happening within the body are not.

[Buddy]

"And of course, your view is that Qi is not something you train or transform through cultivation, is that correct?"

 

No, of course.

 

"Are you familiar with Jing-Chi-Shen concept?"

 

Of course.

 

"If you say "Chi", what do you mean?"

 

I expained that above. Energy or breath.

 

"Fajin is used by Tai Chi and Chi Kung people a lot but it doesn't mean it's a different concept from Jing-Chi-Shen development through meditation."

 

Of course it is. Why would you use it in qigong? It means to express trained power not qi.

 

"The applications and training are different, the processes that are happening within the body are not."

 

Perhaps you are thinking about the word jing meaning "essence", like sperm and ovum and other bodily fluids and secretions. The word jin or jing in fajin is a different word.

 

BTW, you're mixing your transliterations. If you use the spelling "chi", then you want to use the spelling "ching".

Edited August 5, 2006 by Buddy