Ejaculation and aching back, knees and malaise

[yangluchan]

As some of you may remember, I posted a few years ago about some problems with trying retention (mostly hard clenching PC muscle, without much energy work involved either).

 

Since last year, I instead have found I'm not ready to do real retention work (not just hard PC clenches, which actually is still a bit ingrained, when I'm close to coming, I have to try to consciously relax my PC muscle), and have focused on ejaculating usually once per week (I'm 28). Since five months back now I've got a loving girlfriend as well, so I usually have sex with her without coming during the week, and let myself ejaculate once during the weekend.

 

However, I'm still plagued by what has been described as low jing (I'm not sure if it's yin or yang...). I sent an extensive list of my symptoms to Ron Teeguardens Dragon Herbs a few years back, and did a 4 month intensive with deer placenta, he shou wu, schizandra/lycium, gecko rockclimber etc, but although I might have had a small bettering, it did nothing remarkable. Same thing with acupuncture, which I did for 3-4 months. The acupuncturist also said that my kidneys were weak.

 

Please note that I also went for extended periods without ejaculating at that time.

 

When ejaculating, I get a ache in my kidney area that lasts for 3-4 days, and my knees also ache and feel weak. I also usually get a sore throat and my immune system feels "weakened", I might feel like a flu is coming on etc. Also some brain fog sometimes, and most major joints ache and also some muscle ache.

 

Sometimes the feeling lasts for 3-4 days, sometimes only a couple of days. Most of the times the effect is immediate, but usually worsens the day after ejaculating.

 

Some few times I ejaculate two times in one week, but it will usually not worsen the symptoms.

 

This is also usually worse if I (accidentally) ejaculate when masturbating, as opposed to with my girlfriend.

 

Anyone have any advice? I don't feel it's natural that I can't seem to recuperate from this, as I usually do not stress and do too strenuous exercise (although I do want to, but I don't want to exhaust myself), and I'm not that old. This has probably been this way, more of less for the past 3-4 years. I guess I started noticing it as early as when I was 20-21 years old.

 

I've read something about here about opening the channels of the legs, that this could work? I do feel that at my age of only(?) 28 I should not be feeling this way after only ejaculating once a week...

Edited July 3, 2010 by yangluchan

[Edward M]

I've never been into retention work, just bouts of celibacy...but i get similar symptoms to you.

 

I suggest doing zhan zhuang (standing like a tree) or if you can take it either wing chun stance or horse stance for as long as you can. this will strengthen your knees and jing/kidneys.

 

if you can afford it, get the book the way of energy by lam kam cheun.

 

stay away from caffiene and refined sugar. Get yourself some goji berries and make tea with them and eat the berries after you have drunk the tea.

 

Also bee pollen is excellent for enrgy and bulding up the kideneys.

 

If you worry after losing reproductive fluid about your symptoms it will make things worse...just relax andget on with things!

 

Try to meditate everyday........my advice is mindfullness or vipassana unless you have a teacher in which case you can do microcosmic orbit, but i'd say only if you have a teacher or guide...plus ive heard from an old teacher that if you do mco and then stop before it is established (say 6months) then it can damage you internally.

 

best of luck!

peace

Ed

[Spectrum]

You've done a good job journaling. Please followup w a rundown of your weekly / monthly physical routine.

 

What type of physical training do you prefer?

 

My first sexually related question is do you share mutual climaxes w your girl, during the week and if so how do you feel after these?

 

If I ejaculate after or during my partners climaxI feel absolutely no energy drain. When I first started practicing chi gung when I was eighteen or so and the circuits were first remembered activated woke up etc, I would feel less 'chi' when I would come, but that dissapayed with continued practice( pile standing / yi quan / tai ji quan)

 

The three main sources of Jing I was taught to Routinely observe are food you eat, air you breath and how you breath it, and how you move.

[yangluchan]

Hi Edward!

 

Thank you so much for good and sound advice!

 

I've read before about bee pollen and wanted to try it as it's quite cheap as opposed to most other herbs. Also I've read about royal jelly?

 

I've got more left of the schizandra/lycium (goji) drops, I guess I'll start taking them again!

 

Would you guys say it's important to know if it's a yin or yang condition? I've been taking some more he shou wu (I had a few bottles left in the cupboard), but would this not be good if it's a yang deficiency for example?

 

I was thinking of doing Zhang Zhuan yes, but I've also read that it should be done 24 hours after an ejaculations? Will get on it.

 

About feeling bad about releasing, I used to do it because of reading Mantak Chias books on retention (I guess I thought I had to do it to keep healthy, so this might in fact have been what has caused this in the first place, as when I released I felt bad about it and this in turn drained MORE jing).

 

These days I try to think of it as natural and good, and I feel really good when ejaculating for my girl, as I know she enjoys it, and I do too of course, so it's an act of love!

 

I guess I also used to have shame about sex, but not so much anymore, I've finally let my "masculine" self out of the closet and be the man in bed with my girlfriend, and both she and I enjoy the fact that I take control and be my masculine self so she can be her feminine self. I especially attribute this to reading David Deida, really profound!

 

Please note that I've also cleaned up my diet a lot (mostly good meat, fish and vegetables, with fruit during the day, with some cheating on the weekend), and I've started doing the Warrior Diet way of eating which has given me a lot of energy.

[yangluchan]

You've done a good job journaling. Please followup w a rundown of your weekly / monthly physical routine.

 

What type of physical training do you prefer?

 

My first sexually related question is do you share mutual climaxes w your girl, during the week and if so how do you feel after these?

 

If I ejaculate after or during my partners climaxI feel absolutely no energy drain. When I first started practicing chi gung when I was eighteen or so and the circuits were first remembered activated woke up etc, I would feel less 'chi' when I would come, but that dissapayed with continued practice( pile standing / yi quan / tai ji quan)

 

The three main sources of Jing I was taught to Routinely observe are food you eat, air you breath and how you breath it, and how you move.

 

Hi Spectrum!

 

Usually I do Taiji once a week (I know, it's been really slipping!), but I do small bits here and there as I get inspired to do a few moves while waiting for something etc.

 

I walk about 20 minutes daily to and from work.

 

I'm trying to shed some fat these days, so I really want to get into some bodyweight exercises and hill sprints, although I have a bad shoulder so I'm also trying to rehabilitate that. I actually started hill sprints the other day and it felt great, I was not exhausted, and it was only two days after an ejaculation, but today I accidentally ejaculated after masturbating (stopped right before the point of no return, relaxed but still came in a "mild" manner...).

 

I do enjoy Taiji, bodyweight exercises (Hindu squats, Hindu pushups, pullups), kettlebell, but I usually find that doing too strenuous exercise exhausts me, and I'm really afraid to aggravate my condition...

 

Hmm, actually I've only climaxed once together with my girl (she has issues with orgasming, although it's getting better), but I can't remember how that effected everything... Will try again and take note!

 

I'll also try to remember to see how it's like when I get her off first and then get it on and ejaculate.

 

I also think it would be nice for her to be vaginally orgasmic, but she has had some issues with this, but we are working towards it, as I almost made her come from digital g-spot stimulation, but she usually stops me as she feels not ready for the large orgasms she feels coming. Anyway, I digress!

 

Thanks guys! This forum is so great, people really help each other and care!

[Edward M]

No worries Yangluchan, my pleasure!

 

Royal jelly would be good, have not tried it myself....i use romanian bee pollen that has been air dried as opposed to heated.

 

I don't know how important it is to know if the problem is yin/yang, but i'm sure some of the others will pitch in here

 

never heard of the 24 hr thing with zhan zhuang as it isn't focusing on circulating energy etc just relaxing and letting it happen naturally...i think of it as letting the body sense what it needs at that time to rebalance itself by way of being in a neutral position, one that is whole (relaxtion and physical effort together). so if it senses loss of kidney energy or jing then it can start working to build it up etc.

 

seems like you have progressed in terms of attitude, which is key!

 

all the best!

Ed

[Tactile]

I share your predicament somewhat. I'm a few years younger than you and I've had post ejaculatory fatigue after I was 18 or so.. I've made some improvement regarding this issue but I'm still not happy on how this issue affects my life. Some things that have helped me:

 

A stricter diet. Cutting away the crap which is basically sugar, industrial vegetable oils and grains & other empty carbs. I also started eating meat again after being vegetarian in my teens. My fat % of calories is pretty high (compared to avg. joe) and it seems to be working pretty well for me. It's a kind of paleolithic diet. A summary can be found here. http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/ . Forget the nutrional propaganda that fat is bad for you. It's not. Clean animal products (and fat) are best foods for building yin in the body.

 

I've also experimented with superfoods (like bee pollen), and I think they're nice, but maybe a bit overrated (pricewise). Some people really seem to swear by them tho'

 

Acupuncture seems to have helped also. The effect for me has been happening more in the long run. You might want to try different practitioners if you have $$$ to experiment with, because it's also a matter of finding the right person.

 

Also I feel that if I would be just a little less lazy and would really get some serious meditation / energy work done, I could push this thing forward quite a bit. Maybe someday ...

[Aetherous]

I'd say, primarily work with your acupuncturist on this.

[Eric23]

Have you been checked for infections? I've had some prostate infections in the past with some of the symptoms that you refer to. I know that western medicine is not looked that favorably around here (not the biggest fan myself), but sometimes it has it's place.

[yangluchan]

Have you been checked for infections? I've had some prostate infections in the past with some of the symptoms that you refer to. I know that western medicine is not looked that favorably around here (not the biggest fan myself), but sometimes it has it's place.

 

Hmm, some years back I had pain in the pelvic area, and the doctor checked my prostate rectally and said it was fine, but also checked it with ultrasound. I had the same symptoms then.

 

I also just recently did a lot of blood work where I mentioned these symptoms to my doctor for the first time (I found I could since there is actually now a Western medical name for it - Post Orgasmic Illness Syndrome). He had of course never heard of it, but since they are actually studied it I found the courage to finally bring this up.

 

He did some blood work, among them blood tests that should show increased something (is it white blood cells?) that would be heightened if I had an infection anywhere in my body, but he found nothing...

 

Also tested for hormones etc but nothing came out too wrong, but testosterone looked a bit like low-normal to me, and cortisol has been confirmed a little high in the night in another set of tests (spit tests).

 

- How were your prostate infections found? Would a white blood cell count be heightened in case of a prostate infection? I have had some pain in that area so it has crossed my mind, but I didn't ask the doctor to check for it specifically the last time I was there.

[yangluchan]

I share your predicament somewhat. I'm a few years younger than you and I've had post ejaculatory fatigue after I was 18 or so.. I've made some improvement regarding this issue but I'm still not happy on how this issue affects my life. Some things that have helped me:

 

A stricter diet. Cutting away the crap which is basically sugar, industrial vegetable oils and grains & other empty carbs. I also started eating meat again after being vegetarian in my teens. My fat % of calories is pretty high (compared to avg. joe) and it seems to be working pretty well for me. It's a kind of paleolithic diet. A summary can be found here. http://www.paleonu.com/get-started/ . Forget the nutrional propaganda that fat is bad for you. It's not. Clean animal products (and fat) are best foods for building yin in the body.

 

I've also experimented with superfoods (like bee pollen), and I think they're nice, but maybe a bit overrated (pricewise). Some people really seem to swear by them tho'

 

Acupuncture seems to have helped also. The effect for me has been happening more in the long run. You might want to try different practitioners if you have $$$ to experiment with, because it's also a matter of finding the right person.

 

Also I feel that if I would be just a little less lazy and would really get some serious meditation / energy work done, I could push this thing forward quite a bit. Maybe someday ...

 

 

Thank you! I've pretty much gone paleo already (though some brown rice and whole-wheat pasta occasionally with some cheating during the weekends), and I'm liberal with fat, yes, as I also feel it's very important, and the real problem is all the sugar, starch and synthetic preservaties, and not the fat! During the week it's mostly fruits, berries, vegetables and meat/fish.

[yangluchan]

I'd say, primarily work with your acupuncturist on this.

 

Hmm, how long do you think I would have to work with her to feel an effect... I felt like it took a lot of time and money the last time (I had to quite earlier at work each week and then work it off later), and I didn't feel the effect too long, and then it came back again even though I didn't do anything to excess after the treatment period...

[Spectrum]

There is no 24 hour thing for chi gung, what do you think sex IS? Maybe for heavy lifting but chi gung is energy (w)eave breathing.

 

about pccintractions, the pump takes careof itself when you conduct congress. When you practice Intend on the lift slighly don't force anything allow nature. Yes contraction and relaxation or push and relaxation, either or the heart connection you have w her is your guide. Connect, meditate with her, allow her to tAke your awareness into both of your bodies simulatNeoisly! It is not you and her it us herasyouasher.

 

"Hmm, actually I've only climaxed once together with my girl (she has issues with orgasming, although it's getting better), but I can't remember how that effected everything... Will try again and take note!"

 

this is the core of your solution then.

 

"'ll also try to remember to see how it's like when I get her off first and then get it on and ejaculate."

 

Absolutely, you may find your ejaculatoty edge recedes and you can continue adoring and loving her to a second or third climax, particular here is your attentive lense of awareness. Love issues a differnt Dimension to share.

 

" also think it would be nice for her to be vaginally orgasmic, but she has had some issues with this, but we are working towards it, as I almost made her come from digital g-spot stimulation, but she usually stops me as she feels not ready for the large orgasms she feels coming. Anyway, I digress!"

 

thisisthe point to peak again and break through by connecting to her heart and TALK to her as she begins to feel inhibition, it is so important for her to feel safe w you. Her waters will flow over you and cool you down.

Edited July 3, 2010 by Spectrum

[markern]

 

 

I guess I also used to have shame about sex, but not so much anymore, I've finally let my "masculine" self out of the closet and be the man in bed with my girlfriend, and both she and I enjoy the fact that I take control and be my masculine self so she can be her feminine self. I especially attribute this to reading David Deida, really profound!

 

 

 

 

THey tend to always like that. Considering what you wrote about being the man you might find some extra inspiration and tips for mentally exciting her in Daniel Rose and David Shades books. Some of Shades stuff is very advanced and takes time to build up to but it is damn good and modified versions of it, just getting inspiration from it, can work wonders too.

 

 

 

 

 

I'll also try to remember to see how it's like when I get her off first and then get it on and ejaculate.

 

I also think it would be nice for her to be vaginally orgasmic, but she has had some issues with this, but we are working towards it, as I almost made her come from digital g-spot stimulation, but she usually stops me as she feels not ready for the large orgasms she feels coming. Anyway, I digress!

 

Thanks guys! This forum is so great, people really help each other and care!

 

There is unusually good and unique stuff about making women vaginally orgasmic in Shades book. Don`t let her read it though as surprise is key for so much of what he suggests.

 

This is part of a post I wrote in another thread that I think can be beneficial for ypu to read:

 

"There is however an important distinction between the type of multiorgasmic sex one has. The type were you are very excited and have to use some sort of forceful method to get the energy up such as using the pelvic muscle a lot tend to be more draining and can be unbalancing as opposed to the "real" tantric/taoist orgasm which happens through relaxation, mindfulness and surrender and the ability to move energy with the mind alone. The former being a more explosive orgasm that is often more muscular and more connected to the lower centers and the latter more relaxed, streaming blissful, valley like. The explosive type tends to generate more of a kick and the second more love but is still more mindblowing but in a different way.

 

With the more explosive types of orgasm it appears more work is required to refine the energy in meditation in order for it not to be unbalancing. The second type is largely balanced to begin with.

 

It is also a frequent observation that masturbation seems to be more unbalancing and need more refinement work than sex with a girlfriend. THis is probably a combination of couple sex leading to giving you more of the womans yin to balance the yang of your orgasm and of the orgasm itself becoming closer to the second type and more feelings of love being generated at the same time. Generally heart energy is a (the) key to balance out energy from non ejaculatory sex. Sex with a girl you love by itself does this partly or fully.

 

If you read this site: reuniting.info you will find a lot of interesting arguments for why the "tantric" orgasm leads to very stable and loving relationships as opposed to relationships with sex based on the regular orgasm. Wether the theory is absolutely correct or it certainly is the case that many people find this style of lovemaking to have the effect of harmonizing the relationship and keeping love alive. THis all fits rather well with the fact that explosive mulitorgasms needs to be balanced with heart energy. Don`t be confused by the fact that they talk about no orgasms. THey clarify in a couple of posts in the forum that they do mean that the tantric valley orgasm is what one should have.

 

By the way I am a believer in starting a relationship with all the explosive lustful sex one wants and then changing to the Karezza/tantric/taoist style once the honeymoon is over and maybe end up with some sort of combination or just the valley orgasm type. As they go into on the site each style has its functions in the process of mating and I think probably there is natural wisdom in starting in the more common explosive way.

 

If you look up my older posts in threads about sex you will find posts were I go a bit more into some of this stuff and others write related things.

 

What I have written here is a combination of the "collective wisdom" of thetaobums in the sense of observations made over time combined with what my teacher says and only a little bit of personal experience. "

 

 

 

I would just like to underline that this is also a style of orgasm recommended for, and very much enjoyed by, women as well. However, since normal orgasms has been a problem for her and since your are at the beginning of your relationship I would focus more on the normal way of doing things but just trying out this stuff. It might help a lot with teaching you a better way of having multiple orgasms and of a better quality something which could help your problem. THe karezza style makes a lot of this happen almost by itself but with more vigorous love making you will usually need more technique and then I believe breathing and awareness is key. Lots of deep belly breathing (great for building energy also) and breath awareness meditation will teach you the relaxation awareness and breath control that will really facilitate this (long term). I write more about this in some older posts in threads that concern sex.

 

As for becoming vaginally orgasmic the deep spot(s)/a-spot(s) whatever you want to call them are superb for this. Search for deep spot and david shade on google and youtube and you will find an article and a video explaining location and pressure techniques. Also using a version of the shallow and deep thrusting technique and the screwing motion (rotating your penis while thrusting and the other taoist thrusting technique can do a lot to help women come vaginally.

 

A good idea might be to take KAP 1 and 2. In KAP 2 they teach you sexual techniques for dual and solo cultivation that alow you to ejaculate with little or no loss of energy. I don`t know what the techniques are but they are apparently simple and mostly just about awareness and energy exchange. Mal has mentioned success with this so you might ask him. KAP has worked very well for a lot of people here although not all. For those who find it works for them it gives very, very high energy levels and very good health in addition to many other benefits. Combined with your physical practices it could be a good way for you to rebuild your energy and kidneys, Especially since it teaches sexual techniques that sounds perfect for you and that is not always thought by other good systems. However, KAP might lead to your kundalini being raised and Kundalini can be harsh on the adrenals so the kidneys should probably be in quite good order before that happens. As I understand it what raises the actual kundalini in KAP is a specific way to combine a couple of practices and doing them intensively and by not doing that untill you feel ready you can reap the benefits of the system without getting kundalini before you want it. THe instructors should be able to explain how to minimize the risk.

 

Here is a kidney strengthening exercise I have found beneficial. Put one foot on top of the other leg/knee and hold the hand of the arm on the same side of the body as the lifted foot on the foot so that the palm chakra aligns with spleen 6 on your ankle, then use your other hand to slap the sole of the foot so your palm chakra hits about where the kidney 1 point is. hit about once every second. I was taught that a normal person can do up till 500 a day (per foot) but no more and someone with a specific issue to cure can do 800. I find a few hundred to do a lot.

 

I am guessing the male deer exercise as taught at umaatantras webpage could help also in building up your sexual energy reserves but it does use a pc clench (can be done mildly). I find it superb.

[shaolin]

Avoid ejaculating for at least 6 months and do iron crotch qi qong. Sounds easy, but its not.

 

You can find out about it in Mantak Chia "bone marrow nei kung". Its well written, but try to lift more weight than he says and lift for longer periods of time.

 

DONT TRY LIFTING WITH INTERNAL ORGANS. Just lift normally so your kidneys become stronger.

 

I cant asnwer any questions on the training but the above book is good enough.

 

You can also check out iron crotch 99 power training by master Tu Jin Shen that gives you two methods of the same qi qong.

[Eric23]

- How were your prostate infections found? Would a white blood cell count be heightened in case of a prostate infection? I have had some pain in that area so it has crossed my mind, but I didn't ask the doctor to check for it specifically the last time I was there.

 

I was having the classic symptoms of an enlarged prostate, always feeling like I had to urinate, never quite emptying my bladder. I also noticed a dull ache in my root that sometimes would be relieved from ejac, sometimes making it worse. The doctor did the digital exam and put me on antibiotics. We were insured with a HMO so they just automatically put you on antibiotics. Wound up having about 3 of these episodes in a 3 year period. My father had prostate cancer so we insisted on the blood test for that which came up negative. All this happened about 10-15 years ago. I'm 55 now and haven't had any problems since. So much has changed in my life since then, it would be hard to say why.

[yangluchan]

There is no 24 hour thing for chi gung, what do you think sex IS? Maybe for heavy lifting but chi gung is energy (w)eave breathing.

 

Are you sure about this? I have hoped it to be so, but I posted a question about this here some time ago, and all answers I got pointed to there being anything from 24 hours to 3 days (!) from ejaculating to doing any energy work, be it zhan zhuang, taijiquan or five tibetans... I thought it seemed extreme but all answers I got pointed to the fact that it was an accepted truth that there was quite a long waiting period between ejaculating and doing any kind of energy work...?