Kettlebells. Your uncensored opionon

[Gigi]

Hi Taobumers,

I' m interested in purchasing some kettlebells.

Kettlebells seem so popular in America and I saw that some taobumers use them.

Recently these heavy iron balls have become available in my country,too.

So a friend of mine borrowed me a DVD and a book about them.

 

P. Tsatsouline claims they are absolutely miraculous but i am pretty disenchanted about

fitness wolrd. In the last years fitness market exploded literally:everything seems the best tool to gain the perfect shape!

 

in the menatime i tried the so called "Swing" movement with a dumbell (but it's not the same thing!)

My general impression is quite positive. It seems a complete exercise with a discrete range of motion and a good action angle.

 

What's your truly and uncensored opinion about these gripped cannon-balls ?

 

thanks!

 

cheers

[Trunk]

Hi Taobumers,

I' m interested in purchasing some kettlebells

...

in the menatime i tried the so called "Swing" movement with a dumbell (but it's not the same thing!)

My general impression is quite positive. It seems a complete exercise with a discrete range of motion and a good action angle.

When I first found out about 'em I saw that the kbs were expensive, so I tried with dumbell. Then I went online and got a relatively inexpensive kb alternative (a kb-like handle that you put regular weight plates on). I eventually got a real kettlebell. The real kb is superior; the others don't cut it.

 

I enjoy it, and use it now and then, basically just for swings (2, then 1 handed). I like to vary my routine a lot, so its not like I use it every day. But I'm really glad I bought it.

[Yoda]

I sold my KBs when I got into RMAX. As Freeform says, the goals are different and the RMAX goal is more consistent with the taoist vibe. Both are great, though.

[Cameron]

They are a tool. They are fun and you cannot discount the fun factor. Clubs are also pretty fun.

 

I think, as Steve Cotter says, kettlebells accomplish the most things in the shortest period of time.

 

Personally, I would get both kettlebells and clubbells. Also check out bodyweight excercises which are awesome.

[Smile]

Hi Taobumers,

I' m interested in purchasing some kettlebells.

I prefer a Clubbell, although I came from the country that invented kettlebells and plus we had them in our gym class and i had to pass a test with them. Damn russians.

[neimad]

go the clubs!!!

 

 

never tried kettlebells and honestly once i saw clubbells i never felt the urge to.

 

clubs are awesome, i love them.

 

the RMAX philosophy is so deep and if you explore it and apply it to your physical development it can really take you places. the more i understand about RMAX, the greater the ocean seems..... and that ocean is not a 'system' that ocean is my own experience.

 

RMAX is just a gateway to deepening your own personal experience, particularly in this physical dimension.

 

want physical mastery? go RMAX!

 

 

 

I'd like to have the cake and eat it too - and would like both the flow and ease of movement that RMAX preaches and the brutal strength that Pavel speaks of.... are these goals mutually exclusive?

 

no way.... heard the term "knuckledragger"?

 

thats what RMAX builds. if you want strength and flow, but most of all value health first and foremost.... then RMAX is your tribe!

[Trunk]

Wow. Really interesting to hear so many say that they like clubells over kb's. Gonna have to try them.

[neimad]

That's what I've been thinking for a while now.. so thanks for the confirmation! It's just that I really enjoyed the effects of Pavel's body weight excersises... but in doing them I have to tense up a lot and push very hard (whilst holding the breath) which seems very counterproductive in terms of freeing up movement and effortless structure.

 

yeah..... power breathing.

a big 'no no' in CST. the internal bracing done with power breathing will cause increasing levels of tension in the body and will eventually cause problems me thinks.

 

with CST you learn structural breathing or "being breathed"... that is how to integrate breathing, movement and structure.

 

you don't breath, your movement and structure breathes you!

 

it's pretty incredible and when you get it down you begin to see the idea of perpetual exercise is very much real.

 

body-flow is CST's body-weight exercises, and while it may not look like much for building strength, don't be fooled! the strength built by body-flow is far more sophisticated than you could ever imagine..... real strength! which is 3-dimensional and complex.

 

 

Clubbells and CST is tha bomb!

 

as Grandtrinity said quite a long time ago when i was asking about clubbells "i feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have clubs" (or something like that) and now having my own, i echo his sentiments exactly!

 

*excuse me, i'm very passionate about it. it has that effect as you'll quickly realise if you frequent the RMAX forum*

Edited April 12, 2006 by neimad

[hajii]

Wow, those clubbells are pretty spendy!

[Yoda]

Instead of clubbells, you can get 4-10 lb sledge hammers and cut down the handles to see if you like them. I'd start with a 4lb-er.

 

The best of CST is bodyflow, imo. It ***finally*** enlightened me on the breathing thing, which is ground zero of Scott's philosophy. (good for dual cultivation too )

 

Please buy your own to support Scott.

 

However, if you are on a budget, my bodyflow and intuflow are on tour. Grand Trinity has them now. Just pm me and I'll tell GT where to send them.

 

Pavel's performance breathing burns through your energy fast. Not good for fighters or yogis, imo.

 

-Yoda

[hajii]

Yoda,

I've been reading your experiences with Sungazing, great stuff! Problem is there is SO much out there, I'm trying to find stuff that works, and keep it relatively simple. Ok, I figured out what CST is I have been trying out hindu squats/pushups and bridging, they kick ass!

I guess I will read more about RMAX, great tip on those 4 lb sledges, got a Harbor Freight w/in a few miles!

[Trunk]

Instead of clubbells, you can get 4-10 lb sledge hammers and cut down the handles to see if you like them. I'd start with a 4lb-er.

Your idea inspired me to another:

I got my dumb-bells that hold plates and took the plates entirely off of one end, then added a few 2&1/2 lb plates to the other end. Tah-daaaahhhh!: ultra-cheap club-bells. (Caution: I only used dumb-bells with very secure plates, not the ones with little clip-holders.)

 

A friend tipped me to this link, which has a section of The Indian Club Exercise, with some club-bell-like exercises.

[Cameron]

Clubbells are awesome. However, I differ from ego maniacs like Yoda in that I put Kettlebells, Fureys/Gotch/Gamas bodyweight training and rmax stuff on the same plane of awesomeness.

 

Hopefully Master yoda can learn from my more inclusive and less superiority complex oriented ways.

 

*nods head contently*

[Yoda]

Cam, Ya aint seen nothing yet!

 

Hajii, Sungazing kicked my ass, but it was a wild ride. There's extremely high alchemy and megastrong voltage which I found enticing, but it turned out to be too much. Being something of a thrill seeker, I'm getting my kicks out of fasting and dual cultivation (as available) at the moment. Hopefully I can keep my shit together this time. I'll sungaze only very occasionally now. Maybe once meditation settles me down a notch, I can get back to it.

[neimad]

yoda is right in some aspects about body-flow..... however i have to come back to the point that joint mobility, body-flow and clubbells are all interrelated and when combined, create incredible results.

 

i constantly suprise myself these days as all of a sudden i have new found skills or i try something out and can do it almost immediately.

 

today a friend showed me this yoga pose that she was shown when doing instructor training, it's like a planch but with the hands together and elbows tucked into abdomen and then balancing on the hands...... like third try i pulled it off. she told me at the training, only the instructor was able to do it.

she was also commenting on my flexibility, although it's actually MOBILITY not flexibility. i never stretch yet over time my range of movements of course have been increasing.

 

on the weekend i found this log and i started log rolling, being able to keep my balance on top of it really quite easily.

 

i have been thinking about this and all this balancing stuff is strength, but in such a different way than we are used to defining or thinking about strength.

 

circular strength training is unique in that it trains our joints, muscles, tendons AND nervous system to work together. this way skills become easier as the body is more intelligent.

 

the difference between a regular push-up and an RMAX push-up is IMMENSE. the regular pushup may give you bigger pecs and the illusion of being stronger, but the RMAX pushup will coordinate your body in such a way that true strength far outways the simple illusion of isolated strength.

 

i have tried hindu-squats and pushups, i have tried body-weight exercises, i haven't tried kettlebells and now that i have clubs have no desire to me.

i think CST is awesome because it IS inclusive of all other modalities, the difference is in the sophistication. we don't stop at the level of "oh this dand is it, i can achieve all the strength i could ever want with this" no no no.... we go "this dand is pretty good, i've got it down now.... so what can i do to take it up another notch?"

 

always evolving, increasingly complex, never stagnant.

 

*disclaimer* i in no way receive any kind of compensation for promoting RMAX, i just love it that much is all. it is changing my life and my own physical mastery.

[Cameron]

One of my inspirations outside of qigong these days is Steve Maxwell. Here is this 40 something year old guy who is proficient at all 3 modalities(bodyweight, rmax, dragondoor) sees that there are unique benifits to each and expertly conveys those differences.

 

Of course you have to respect Scott for being so focused on developing his system and sticking to his philosophy of training. I really dont' care if he calls it qigong or yoga it's still good stuff.

 

if you want to get technical I feel kettlebells more directly work the hips and the back while clubs more directly work the shoulders and grip. There both cool but work different things.

 

Also, I notice an almost internal event when doing clubbell workouts I don't get with kettlebells. the kettles kick my ass fast but in a really aerobic sense wheras clubs seem to tax me internally.

 

I am working out with the 10 lc clubs now but thinking of ordering a pair of 15's maybe they would add more cardio like my kettles.

 

Also, Pavel teaches mobilty in several courses too he just doesn't say it is the essential foundation of everything like Scott. Pavel sort of takes a more macho attitude from Russia, drink your vodka throw kettlebells and throw in some stretching when you have time .Or if you don't have time just skip it and lift the iron.

 

scott reall, really, really, really stresses mobilty above all.

[neimad]

scott reall, really, really, really stresses mobilty above all.

 

health first, mobility second.

 

15's are cool. and actually i really find that if i don't use my hips, back and legs in clubbell swinging then yes my grip and shoulders get fried. however with proper form, everything works together.... no element is left out of swinging the club.

[Cameron]

Cool. Scott's stuff is great. Sounds like you found something.

 

Personally, I agree with Sean in the debate(for the most part) only I wouldn't have brought up the debate in the first place on Scott's forum.

 

I think in the big picture it was still a good thing since it basically defined certain things about rmax philosophy but I would just as soon it not have happened. Still kind of turned off by it. Anyway, it's about practice not opnions of who is right or wrong .And you have found a practice you will stick with and enjoy..always a good things to happen.

 

Maybe we can hang out when I visit Australia in a year or so. Have cousins there I havent seen since I was like 10!

 

edit-And I know it really wasn't a debate..it was..well...we know what it was..and can forget and have positive feelings towards those that bring us cool practices(IMO)

Edited April 19, 2006 by Cameron

[neimad]

yeah RMAX is cool, my body is evolving that's for sure and i love it.

 

well i think i mentioned this earlier, but after that argument i still had some questions left so i went about it in a much gentler way and basically got this out of it:

 

RMAX is about health first, mobility second. all the other stuff like becoming enlightened, etc.... is for each person to consider for themselves.

 

CST is basically a system of physical culture. it is exercise and it's entirely physical. nowhere does it say that it can bring you anymore than physical benefits. what was discussed in that article about RMAX was that prasara could not open your energy meridians. opening of energy meridians, despite it's exotic sounding, still falls under the banner of a health or physical process. in shiatsu they say that certain stretches condition certain meridian lines. in other forms of yoga they say the same. so because it isn't stated in CST that this stuff happens, then it doesn't?

 

 

anyways when are you planning on coming to aus? i'm bailing outta here in september this year, not sure when i'll be back..... otherwise for sure i'd hang out.

[Cameron]

Probably not until next summer(2007).

[hajii]

Ok, you RMAX gurus Where do I start? I've got some makeshift 'bells, (dumbells w/ the weights at one end, may make a better set, saw where some people are getting kid's hollow ball bats and filling 'em with sand, weigh about 10lbs each) and I do the swipe and mill. Should I get the clubbell training for circular strength video? I have heard, in general, videos work better for learning, true? I have been (very generously) offered the loan of bodyflow and intuflow videos, but till they arrive I want to cover my basics. Sean recommended warrior wellness to start, sounds good, I just want to shorten the learning curve by going in the right order. Thanks!

[freeform]

[hajii]

Freeform,

ok makes sense....I'll look for a DVD for WW (don't play VHS tapes any more) first. I finally found materials for intuflow, but it's not mentioned as much, did it become WW? So, I don't need to do be breathed first? Or, it's included in other stuff? Seems like breathing technique would be key.

I do the furey body weight stuff, really like it. I could do a ( 1) one legged squat as long as I can remember, working on one armed pullups, haven't really tried one armed pushups yet

[neimad]

there is an RMAX pushup.... it's a screwing one-arm pushup.

 

there is an article in one of the online magazines about it (and about the RMAX pull-up too).

 

the push-up is also detailed in "forward pressure".

 

warrior wellness became intu-flow.

 

be breathed is a great core strength program. it highlights very much how to integrate breathing into movement and structure. but everything CST does that too. intu-flow has a great breath section at the end of the joint stuff.

 

intu-flow i would reccomend as the entry-point to CST.... go from there feeling what you want to work on. there are many ways of achieving EXACTLY the same goal: that is to integrate breath, movement and structure.....

 

body-flow is great, but need to either already be very mobile or a solid grounding in intu-flow before i suggest moving into it. flowfit on the other hand can be begun immediately, along with intu-flow.

 

personally i'd advise against the makeshit bells..... but that is your choice to make.

 

enjoy the journey!!!

keep us posted.

[hajii]

I couldn't wait, broke down and bought intu-flow. It just sounds so cool! Started reading the RMAX forum, and that's what they recommend too, intu first, then flow. Kinda cool that they are both new products, so they have the latest version of Scott's goodness. Hope the mini-clubs are usefull, would have rather just got the video, but we'll see Similar to Chia and Winn's stuff, one kinda has to dig a bit to figure out what to get.

Neimad: I'm gonna hold off on the CST, and do the program in the recommended order (tough for an Aries!)