What is Good and Virtue?

[DarthBane]

Ive notice an outcrop of "evil" topics. Course then again that makes me think: "Why the obsession with evil?". I mean we could really wonder forever about why people think and obsess about things different than we ourselves choose to do so. In fact for the most part, some people wont even be interested in this topic because they wont find it important. I think it is elementary to understand what good is, maybe so that we dont lower ourselves by focusing and bringing in more negative. But then again there are many misconceptions people have about either. I think these need to be cleared up before moving forward.

 

Misconception: Evil people leak.

Truth: Yes, because they give their energy away by being attached to lower feelings of anger and hate. This anger and hate can become a vicious cycle if we do not become indifferent to this person's feelings. Some good people also do the same inadvertently and may have things they abhorrently dislike. It is a matter of personal growth to forgive and show loving-kindness to all if possible. Calmness helps when dealing with people who have a lot of anger/hate. We can easily become angry right back and let us be consumed by it being a vehicle of the tao for retribution. Not a good cycle because we can keep it going. Good people can leak also only it is not as bad. Most good people I know send loving energy to everyone. Now this is not a bad thing because they usually detach themselves. After a while it works to benefit because people begin to show the same kindness back.

 

Misconception: Good people are completely untouchable and irreprehensable all the time.

Truth: No, for the same reason as the first truth. We all have a bed to lie in and contrary to what some think we do have all we need with us. This may sound strange and archaic to some, but it should not be a suprise to us when we read a book, or the off chance that someone just by chance tells us something about what we we looking for the answer to (I am talking in real life folks) even though they did not know you were looking for the answer to something. There are always subtle hints in our environment that we need to be aware of.

 

Now Good and Virtue. Most people say Good is what is Right. But what is truely right? It is not just my idea of what is right is it? Perhaps I make up this phony concept that anyone who wears a yellow hat is good? I say it to myself many times until I believe it. Perhaps I superimpose that image of what I think to be good on those people and it makes me feel good because that is what I believe. Anyone could really do that. Good must truely be something deeper and more substantial than that. Otherwise the meaning of Good and Virtue becomes something completely shallow. Just like a Religion has a fluffy coating of half-truth, a tree has a outer wood. Trees also have a core, a heartwood that does not define truely the spirit of the tree itself.

 

Some also speak of ways to cultivate good and virtue besides doing those things. I wont post those here because it is not my purpose to try to monopolize or make myself the only one who knows anything of this subject. But for those who wish to contribute twords what they know comparably may want to post.

Pink Light

[Marblehead]

Hi Darth,

 

Nice topic. Yes, I agree, we all too often spend time speaking about evil and far too little time talking about good.

 

What is good and virtue, you ask? Yes, you presented some nice ideas. I will present my thoughts based in Taoist Philosophy. (Hey, what else would you expect from me? Hehehe.)

 

Good and Virtue, IMO, is Nature and its processes. Now, in order to view the concept properly we must first think outside the limits of human concepts. That is, we must first eliminate dualistic thinking.

 

But wait, someone says, if we eliminate dualistic thinking there is no such thing as good and evil because they meld into One.

 

Ah! Says I! That is exactly the point. Sometimes things happen in life (of the universe) that we, man, think are deplorable. But that is only because we have placed our individual or common values on the event.

 

So, from the viewpoint of Tao, there is no such thing as good and evil, there just "is".

 

But most of us don't view life from the viewpoint of Tao but rather from our own viewpoint. So this is really where we must speak from.

 

I agree, when we are around negative people their negativity almost always rubs off on us. Same when we are around positive people. And this applies to when we are around evil or good people.

 

So we must define for ourself what is good and what is evil. If we are people of Tao our first consideration, IMO, should be self-survival. Of course, we must remain at peace with ourself while watching out for ourselves. I think that this is a very important consideration.

 

So good, IMO, would be actions that preserve our own life while causing the least amount of harm to any other living thing. Note the phrase "least amout of harm". We need to eat so we must understand that other life will die for our survival. If we are threatened with harm we must avoid that harm through whatever means necessary. True that our actions may be considered evil is some conditions but in the condition of survival the actions must be viewed from "beyond good and evil".

 

The human animal is capable of great evil. But equally true, the human animal is capable of great good. Once we have secured our own survival any remaining energy and resources could be used to help others with their survival. I think that this would be considered good by nearly all people even though I understand that there are those who are so greedy that they would think such actions are foolish.

 

So I am left with the understanding that if our actions are consistent with the processes of Nature we have attained a state of "beyond good and evil" and therefore we are beyond the judgement of other people.

 

Peace & Love!

[Brian]

...

[Owledge]

This may sound strange and archaic to some, but it should not be a suprise to us when we read a book, or the off chance that someone just by chance tells us something about what we we looking for the answer to (I am talking in real life folks) even though they did not know you were looking for the answer to something. There are always subtle hints in our environment that we need to be aware of.

Well, I wouldn't call your example subtle. It can be disturbing because even when you sharpen your awareness for 'subtle hints', often you might not recognize the hint but wonder whether it tells you something or is just 'random events'.

 

I drive a very rare model of a car, and today when I drove to the dealer for a repair, there was another of these very rare models, same color, even same aftermarket wheel brand and size. Subtle message or not? Pondering on that stuff? Forget it!

(It was just kinda funny and of course I parked right next to it. ... The repair turned out to be a disaster by the way.)

Edited July 9, 2010 by Hardyg

[DarthBane]

So good, IMO, would be actions that preserve our own life while causing the least amount of harm to any other living thing. Note the phrase "least amout of harm". We need to eat so we must understand that other life will die for our survival. If we are threatened with harm we must avoid that harm through whatever means necessary. True that our actions may be considered evil is some conditions but in the condition of survival the actions must be viewed from "beyond good and evil".

Great post. I especially liked this quote.

 

Pink Light works wonders.

 

 

I drive a very rare model of a car, and today when I drove to the dealer for a repair, there was another of these very rare models, same color, even same aftermarket wheel brand and size. Subtle message or not? Pondering on that stuff? Forget it!

(It was just kinda funny and of course I parked right next to it. ... The repair turned out to be a disaster by the way.)

 

Maybe next time you see the same model car, it might mean something similar for you? I have some similar experiences but recently I saw a lot of Hummer2 vehicles then it didnt mean anything. Sometimes the physical signs are weird that way. Some time back I saw or notice a lot of a certain model of vehicle... next week i almost got run over on my bike by one of them. Maybe it also could have meant to buy one, they were on sale at a particular place. I agree.

[Owledge]

next week i almost got run over on my bike by one of them. Maybe it also could have meant to buy one, they were on sale at a particular place. I agree.

I really can't follow that logic. Buy one so that you, too, can almost run over bikers?

Quite likely that the sale was the reason why so many of them were driving around.

 

I have some similar experiences but recently I saw a lot of Hummer2 vehicles then it didnt mean anything. Sometimes the physical signs are weird that way. Some time back I saw or notice a lot of a certain model of vehicle...

If you see several green Beetles within a few minutes, you might be watching Futurama episode 45.

 

Sometimes events are so very unlikely or intriguing that it at least makes dull life a bit less dull. You know, synchronicities that I can't draw any meaning from. ( Summer in Synchroni City ... lalala ) One day I had a meeting with a Bruno Gröning group at a restaurant in Bremen. A few hours before (or the day before, I don't remember), I stopped at a crossing, a Ford Windstar (rarely seen around here in Germany in this town of 80,000 people) in front of me, and the number plate was "HB - AT 999". HB is for Hansestadt Bremen. The number caught my attention because of the triple nine.

And what I realized only after the meeting, when looking at the bill, was that the table number where the meeting took place was 999! So the number plate told me that I would be in "HB at 999".

Moreover, just a day later I saw another Ford Windstar.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Hardyg

[Birch]

I suggest to find "good" I have to resolve my own duality. All the time. Of course I have been told what "being good" means by other people. Sometimes it means just doing/saying/believing what they want. Sometimes they will remind me what they want in other ways.

 

I really think that "good" is one of those horrible terms we could all do without. Like "love".

But let's be honest, we know it when we do it

[Owledge]

I really think that "good" is one of those horrible terms we could all do without. Like "love".

But let's be honest, we know it when we do it

Isn't it the most amazing relationship wherein saying "I love you" never occurs because it seems superfluous and extremely superficial compared to the mutually experienced reality?

[Birch]

[DarthBane]

Aww. Isnt that sweet.

[Spectrum]

B

rain washing works both

orections

Edited July 12, 2010 by Spectrum

[DarthBane]

B

rain washing works both

orections

 

E

uqitirc

 

smees ti noitcerid eno ylno sneppah

 

Or I dont understand.

[Owledge]

Pectrumsay endstay otay avhay naay terestinginhay ritingway tylesay.

[DarthBane]

Pectrumsay endstay otay avhay naay terestinginhay ritingway tylesay.

 

Yeah, I probably seem strange to him.

[Spectrum]

How do you flip a coin on to it's edge? A lot of people only see one direction at a time and limit choices to good evil or black white. There is only one. How do you flip a coin onto it's edge?

Edited July 12, 2010 by Spectrum

[Owledge]

How do you flip a coin on to it's edge?

It happens.

[DarthBane]

How do you flip a coin on to it's edge? A lot of people only see one direction at a time and limit choices to good evil or black white. There is only one. How do you flip a coin onto it's edge?

 

To ask how a coin is flipped on its edge readily assumes duality is truely correct. How does one determine this if outcomes just "are"? Or that one can assume all ducks are ducks even though one may be a decoy, a deceptive misleading duck that slanders other systems when threatened? Or are we best to leave the duck alone and just ignore it?

[Marblehead]

[NeiChuan]

 

Really beautiful thanks.

[Gerard]

Don't lie

Don't steal

Don't kill

Don't be greedy

Don't be jealous

Don't abuse others

Control your emotions

 

This is virtue.

[Starjumper]

In Taoism they generally try to avoid black and white rules, and so a Taoist good explanation of virtue is: The skillful maneuvering through life situations while maintaining an inner calm.

[Gerard]

In Taoism they generally try to avoid black and white rules, and so a Taoist good explanation of virtue is: The skillful maneuvering through life situations while maintaining an inner calm.

 

In the Tang dynasty, a man might honor his ancestors by following the rigid rules of social behaviour as dictated by Confucianism, attend a Buddhist pageant, and practice Taoist breathing exercises, all in the same day. These three doctrines were an important part of daily life.

 

 

 

Here's a great article on this subject:

 

http://asiasociety.org/education-learning/chinese-language-initiatives/three-teachings

 

Excellent reading!

 

Why branding yourself with one thing when you could benefit from three?

Edited July 13, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[Marblehead]

Excellent posts, these last two. Thanks!

 

Peace & Love!

[sifusufi]

I remember an interview with Danny Inosanto where he states how the Chinese community were giving Bruce heat for teaching non-Chinese,

and he is explaining to Danny " You mean only the Chinese are virtuous" "No other culture besides the chinese are worthy?"

 

I searched for a clip of this but could not find it. I have it on VHS somewhere. Excellent example.

Someone here HAD to see it as well.

 

Peace,

 

Rob

[Starjumper]

In the Tang dynasty, a man might honor his ancestors by following the rigid rules of social behaviour as dictated by Confucianism, attend a Buddhist pageant, and practice Taoist breathing exercises, all in the same day. These three doctrines were an important part of daily life.

 

.........

 

Why brand yourself with one thing when you could benefit from three?

 

It's my understanding that many Chinese people still do that.

 

Considering branding myself, in spite of what I've led some fundamentalists to believe I find some useful things in Buddhism, the non fundamentalist side of Buddhism.

 

Concerning Confucianism, I don't know much about it but I consider it to be a fundamentalist version of Taoism. I feel that having a sincere heart is as good as rites and rituals, and better if the rites and rituals are performed in a casual way.

 

So while I generally don't classify myself, since I have dedicated my life to studying and teaching a 100% Taoist tradition and vibrate extremely well with the philosophy, I think I should state my position in places like this where there are so few.

Edited July 13, 2010 by Starjumper7