Is Tao an Ontological Essence of Life?

[Brian]

...

[Birch]

"Philosophical Taoism would be right for, say Kate. (I had to select someone here who is not arguementive. Hehehe.)"

 

Thanks Mr Marblehead! A reason not to argue is that by doing so you immediately allow the opposing opinion to take form and potentially gather force. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion, just that arguing about it prevents me from learning anything worth finding out.

 

I was interested in "local singularity" - it does kind of screw up things a bit.

[Marblehead]

Just a brief interjection here from the realm of natural philosophy: ...

 

Hi Seeker,

 

Yes, I have heard something like this before. Again, there is insufficient data for me to even create an opinion. There are, of course, laws that govern what is going on there but we (mankind) just haven't figured out the laws yet.

 

But I am pretty sure that however it works it is going to continue to work that same way regardless of what I think. Hehehe. Sad that the universe doesn't care what I think; I have quite a few pretty neat opinions. Oh well.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

That is an interesting concept. (And you have made that statement before.) I have no thoughts on it at the moment but perhaps one day we can talk about it.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Ok MH,

 

[Vajrahridaya]

[Starjumper]

Still but in motion, every moment, pulsing, the inner tension exploding manifestation in every moment...

 

Just the way you described it reminds me of the experience of Spanda. Spanda is an experience that will be had by every single yogi, it just will be understood or interpreted differently. Shaivism considers it based upon an absolute self existence, while Buddhism would just consider it the motion of dependent origination.

 

Anyway... yes, Tao can be experienced as Spanda (vibration).

Notice how our Buddhist fundamentalist can not relate to Tao at it's deeper level and instead latches on to a poetic description of some of it's manifestations ... and then proceeds to dictate to us how he already knows all about it, as he looks downwards from on high.

[Apech]

Notice how our Buddhist fundamentalist can not relate to Tao at it's deeper level and instead latches on to a poetic description of some of it's manifestations ... and then proceeds to dictate to us how he already knows all about it, as he looks downwards from on high.

 

Give it up - this is called a conversation.

[Apech]

[Vajrahridaya]

That's nice ... as long as you are not doing one of your Tao= (something) > which is an underlying cause ... statements.

 

As an experience I will buy that.

 

I would not define the Tao or (the Way) like this. I would merely say that the Tao is saying dependent origination. The way of movement without end or beginning. Kind of like how you and MH are describing it are in accord with my own understanding to one degree or another.

 

So, thus it's not an ontological essence for me, just as it's not for you. It's merely the way of the never ending flow, from contraction to expansion, all empty of inherent existence but relative experience keeps on ticking.

[Starjumper]

I would not define the Tao or (the Way) like this.

 

You just did.

 

I would merely say that the Tao is saying dependent origination.

 

Tao doesn't say anything, and if it did it wouldn't be agreeing with your dependent origination BS.

 

It's not possible for the spiritually handicapped to comprehend the Way, and personally I think that's a very fine thing.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Vajrahridaya]

You just did.

 

 

I would not define the Tao as an ontological essence.

 

 

Tao doesn't say anything, and if it did it wouldn't be agreeing with your dependent origination BS.

 

Well then...

 

Mutual co-origination, or inter-dependent co-origination. As in, nothing arises from it's own nature but only through relationship with other causes and conditions. Just like your thought arises from the pool of your mind due to causes and conditions outside of the thought itself and the energy of your mind is defined by it's content, unconscious, sub-conscious or conscious as that content may be. A thought arises due to phenomenal relationships. Vibration manifests in many different ways according to relationships and there are all sorts of vibrations on many levels and dimensions, all inter-relating.

 

It's not possible for the spiritually handicapped to comprehend the Way, and personally I think that's a very fine thing.

 

I'm very glad that Buddhas are compassionate towards a person as spiritually handicapped as myself.

[Apech]

I would not define the Tao or (the Way) like this. I would merely say that the Tao is saying dependent origination. The way of movement without end or beginning. Kind of like how you and MH are describing it are in accord with my own understanding to one degree or another.

 

So, thus it's not an ontological essence for me, just as it's not for you. It's merely the way of the never ending flow, from contraction to expansion, all empty of inherent existence but relative experience keeps on ticking.

 

I could go with that as long as its not meant to be definitive or exhaustive.

[Vajrahridaya]

I could go with that as long as its not meant to be definitive or exhaustive.

 

There is no exhaustion to explanation, just as there is no end to an enlightened sages compassion, the fuel being endless sentient beings.

 

There is no way to fully define the unlimited, even though the unlimited constantly limits and defines.

[Apech]

 

It's not possible for the spiritually handicapped to comprehend the Way, and personally I think that's a very fine thing.

 

What do you mean by spiritually handicapped? And why do you think it good that some people cannot comprehend the Way? This seems an odd position to take to me.

[Starjumper]

I'm very glad that Buddhas are compassionate towards a person as spiritually handicapped as myself.

 

Yeah, your Buddhas are so great it makes us want to puke. I have compassion for you too, but you're still a pain in the ass. You are on my shit list due to your evangelism.

[Starjumper]

What do you mean by spiritually handicapped?

 

Read third paragraph of post #121 of this thread.

 

And why do you think it good that some people cannot comprehend the Way? This seems an odd position to take to me.

 

I don't 'think' that, I know that, and Lao Tzu specifically pointed it out. Taoism may be odd for you but it's home for me, build a bridge.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Stigweard]

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah, your Buddhas are so great it makes us want to puke. I have compassion for you too, but you're still a pain in the ass. You are on my shit list due to your evangelism.

 

The offended makes more violence than the offender.

[JustARandomPanda]

And why do you think it good that some people cannot comprehend the Way? This seems an odd position to take to me.

 

I don't 'think' that, I know that, and Lao Tzu specifically pointed it out. Taoism may be odd for you but it's home for me, build a bridge.

 

 

Marblehead...since you know Lao Tzu so well can you quote me the chapter(s) and paragraph(s) that confirm that Lao Tzu said it is a good thing that some people can't comprehend Tao? Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

[Starjumper]

Marblehead...since you know Lao Tzu so well can you quote me the chapter(s) and paragraph(s) that confirm that Lao Tzu said it is a good thing that some people can't comprehend Tao? Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.

I don't know which chapter it is but I'll paraphrase what it says: "If Bozo Breath could understand the great Way then the Way wouldn't be what it is" and this is an attachment of mine, but I think that's a damn good thing, thank GOD that Bozos can't comprehend the Way. Amen, pass the peas.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Starjumper]

The offended makes more violence than the offender.

Only trolls who think their passive aggressive violence is not an offensive violence.

[Stigweard]

[Stigweard]

The offended makes more violence than the offender.

Errm ... sorry, no common ground here We could start talking about folks being mugged and raped here, but let's not shall we ... we just found some common footing after all

[JustARandomPanda]

That description of Spanda (Vibration) made me think of String Theory. Isn't one of the things String Theory posits is that the universe is a series of vibrations of subatomic particles?

[Vajrahridaya]

Errm ... sorry, no common ground here We could start talking about folks being mugged and raped here, but let's not shall we ... we just found some common footing after all

 

I'm talking to Starjumper and his specific brand of expression right now.