Verdesi, SFQ...guidance?

[Astral_Anima]

So i'm going to eventually study with David Verdesi,as it seems John Chang doesn't want the stress of another student, which i respect, although it's a shame because i REALLY like the fact that you have to take an oath never to use your ability to make money, harm another or to show off in crowds. <sigh> what ever happened to morals...oh well. If Verdesi has the power I will go to him and ask his guidance. Actually...does anyone here know of any other "Masters" who can guide one to and beyond YinYang Gong? Perhaps ones that doesn't charge enormous sums of money with little emphasis on moral charactor? I'm willing to give up my life(the way i live not my ACTUAL life, lol) for any training I can get in this area.

 

Anyway, until I get the cash to meet Verdesi I have downloaded SFQ levels 1-4 and am going to start that soon i suppose. I was wondering though if that would in some way contradict the development of YinYang Gong. Honestly I know nothing of Verdesi's training method so I'm not even sure what's entailed (because it costs $300 just to see the forum), so I just want to make sure I don't hinder/ruin my chances of development in my area of interest.

 

Any and all words are welcome and much appreciated.

-Peace

[Sahaj Nath]

...<sigh> what ever happened to morals...oh well.

 

...

 

Anyway, until I get the cash to meet Verdesi I have downloaded SFQ levels 1-4 and am going to start that soon i suppose.

 

...

 

Any and all words are welcome and much appreciated.

-Peace

 

you seem willing to spare no expense to achieve the "highest level" you can. Chunyi Lin is a very highly developed master with high-standing moral character. but did you purchase those SFQ programs you downloaded, or is that pirated material?

 

If Verdesi has the power I will go to him and ask his guidance. Actually...does anyone here know of any other "Masters" who can guide one to and beyond YinYang Gong? Perhaps ones that doesn't charge enormous sums of money with little emphasis on moral charactor?

 

people like Verdesi charge that much because people like you chase after it.

 

i can promise you one thing:

 

you're not going to get your fairytale ending. but maybe you need to spend massive amounts of money to learn that for yourself.

 

 

i'll just leave it at that.

[h.uriahr]

Hey Hundun, +1 to all that

 

I would also add this.

 

A good teacher will reproduce good students unless of course he doesnt have that many and then statistics can rear it's ugly head. That said, to my knowledge, Verdesi has quite a few students, none of which have the accomplished yin yang gong.

 

Verdesi is someone you can smell a mile away. The first red flag is the fact that he jumps from teacher to teacher. Not a bad thing but when it's an All-Star cast then that's a HUGE red flag. He has a 20000 yr old alien teacher but that wasnt good enough so he met John Chang, that wasnt good enough so he went to Wang Liping who wasnt good enough then Jiang who wasnt good enough then some dude in Korea who can do thunder sounds with his cane wasnt good enough...what next? Santa Claus?...the Easter Bunny? Maybe a magical lei shan dao leprechaun...who knows.

 

All I know is that if he hasnt had one single student who is at the coupling level, then why bother? I'll tell you why, because he's throwing out insane prices so you think "it's gotta be real right?"

 

Wang Liping has accomplished students that can do crazy stuff, just ask around.

Chunyi Lin has students who can do distance healing, etc.

Waysun Liao has students that can do cool stuff.

Even on this board, certain people PROBABLY have accomplished students, like Hundun for example and Santiago. For that matter, I'd swear under oath, to a jury that Hundun and Santiago both have IT...the JUICE. So what if it's not yin yang gong. The biggest challenge you're going to face is dealing with your SELF.

[That Guy]

From all I've heard of, I just know I'd choose pretty much almost anyone over Verdesi. I say almost anyone because some are confirmed frauds, so i can't pick them

 

I ve never met him though, just read around, seen a bit here and there on video.

[lino]

So i'm going to eventually study with David Verdesi,as it seems John Chang doesn't want the stress of another student, which i respect, although it's a shame because i REALLY like the fact that you have to take an oath never to use your ability to make money, harm another or to show off in crowds. <sigh> what ever happened to morals...oh well. If Verdesi has the power I will go to him and ask his guidance. Actually...does anyone here know of any other "Masters" who can guide one to and beyond YinYang Gong? Perhaps ones that doesn't charge enormous sums of money with little emphasis on moral charactor? I'm willing to give up my life(the way i live not my ACTUAL life, lol) for any training I can get in this area.

 

Anyway, until I get the cash to meet Verdesi I have downloaded SFQ levels 1-4 and am going to start that soon i suppose. I was wondering though if that would in some way contradict the development of YinYang Gong. Honestly I know nothing of Verdesi's training method so I'm not even sure what's entailed (because it costs $300 just to see the forum), so I just want to make sure I don't hinder/ruin my chances of development in my area of interest.

 

Any and all words are welcome and much appreciated.

-Peace

 

Forget Verdesi, too much baggage. Go with Chunyi Li or Robert Peng. I've been doing

stuff by deductive reasoning so I know what I am doing.

[Taiji Bum]

Reminds me of the lament of great teachers. "Why cant I find any great students?" Whats a great student? They hear of meditation study it and then mystery of mysteries, practice it. Meditation isnt that hard. Its a personal trial and error thing that no matter how great the master is, he cant do it for you. There are a million websites and books on it. Pick a simple one like watching your breath and stick to it. There is no great mystery to becoming an advanced enlightened being either, just meditate a lot and for a long time.

 

Reminds me of a friend who wants to be a photographer but wont start now because he doesnt have a $2000 camera that he "needs". Strangely enough he waited to start running until this summer and he moved but now that he moved he isnt running because of a million reasons. There is a difference between "wants" and the things we actually make a "true decision" to have. I bet if he were to decide to get enlightened he would wait to do the "real" work for when he found a "true" master.

 

I am not slamming you astral_anima, I am just saying start meditating your ass off now and great masters will climb over each other to claim YOU as a student.

[ShaktiMama]

Reminds me of the lament of great teachers. "Why cant I find any great students?" Whats a great student? They hear of meditation study it and then mystery of mysteries, practice it. Meditation isnt that hard. Its a personal trial and error thing that no matter how great the master is, he cant do it for you. There are a million websites and books on it. Pick a simple one like watching your breath and stick to it. There is no great mystery to becoming an advanced enlightened being either, just meditate a lot and for a long time.

 

Reminds me of a friend who wants to be a photographer but wont start now because he doesnt have a $2000 camera that he "needs". Strangely enough he waited to start running until this summer and he moved but now that he moved he isnt running because of a million reasons. There is a difference between "wants" and the things we actually make a "true decision" to have. I bet if he were to decide to get enlightened he would wait to do the "real" work for when he found a "true" master.

 

I am not slamming you astral_anima, I am just saying start meditating your ass off now and great masters will climb over each other to claim YOU as a student.

 

 

this is so true. do your practice and they will come looking for you because you shine.

s

[Andy_W]

Hi Astral,

 

For the reasons given already I reckon stay away from Verdesi, he's always changing his far fetched pitch to attract new followers, read carefully anything about him on the net before investing youre time and money.

 

Just a suggestion if youre interested in powerful mystical paths with love, morality and compassion as the basis then you might look up the six yogas of Naropa. This series is taught widely by many authentic tibetan lamas, tho it is often taught in a three year retreat. Many similar practices, that have signs of accomplishment, are taught by the palyul Buddhist orginisation at summer retreats, all the infos on the net.

 

Best wishes

 

Andy

[TheTaoBum]

Hey Hundun, +1 to all that

 

I would also add this.

 

A good teacher will reproduce good students unless of course he doesnt have that many and then statistics can rear it's ugly head. That said, to my knowledge, Verdesi has quite a few students, none of which have the accomplished yin yang gong.

 

Verdesi is someone you can smell a mile away. The first red flag is the fact that he jumps from teacher to teacher. Not a bad thing but when it's an All-Star cast then that's a HUGE red flag. He has a 20000 yr old alien teacher but that wasnt good enough so he met John Chang, that wasnt good enough so he went to Wang Liping who wasnt good enough then Jiang who wasnt good enough then some dude in Korea who can do thunder sounds with his cane wasnt good enough...what next? Santa Claus?...the Easter Bunny? Maybe a magical lei shan dao leprechaun...who knows.

 

All I know is that if he hasnt had one single student who is at the coupling level, then why bother? I'll tell you why, because he's throwing out insane prices so you think "it's gotta be real right?"

 

Wang Liping has accomplished students that can do crazy stuff, just ask around.

Chunyi Lin has students who can do distance healing, etc.

Waysun Liao has students that can do cool stuff.

Even on this board, certain people PROBABLY have accomplished students, like Hundun for example and Santiago. For that matter, I'd swear under oath, to a jury that Hundun and Santiago both have IT...the JUICE. So what if it's not yin yang gong. The biggest challenge you're going to face is dealing with your SELF.

 

 

Hillarious Post and so true uriahr.

 

I understand Verdesi tried to organize a seminar in Malaysia which had to be cancelled because no one was interested. Flaunting you're fairy tale stories to the West is one thing but trying it in a country like malaysia is another story. And of course sean denty made an appearance on facebook repeating the same old lies on how cultivated and special david is.

[Astral_Anima]

Thank You all for the support and info XD

 

Taijibum- I DEF agree with you there. I'm been experimenting with fasting, meditation and just exercise in general (as i'm physically kinda weak and scrawny). I'm hoping to set my life up to where I can meditate for hours and hours a day without interruption or worry. But yeah I agree that one should not wait for a Master to start learning the "basics" However I AM trying to ensure I don't take up a path that may be contradictory of the path i'm trying to take. For example, if i'm trying to learn AYP or a "Fire Path" I wouldn't want to start learning Kunlun. I'm not entirely aware of how each system works so i'm hesitant to make a move without proper guidnace. However Meditation is something ANYONE can do and i don't think it stands in the way of ANY path =)

[markern]

If you want to get enlightened then read Daniel Ingrams Mastering the core teachings of the Buddha (it`s free on his website) and ask for practice advice on his forum dharmaoverground. His book presents a detailed map of all the stages on goes through up from begining up untill the highest stages of Budhist enlightenment except Buddhahood and how to skillfully and quickly progress in the different stages. It is remarkable to see how much faster people who have been doing Vipassana for years progress once they read the book and start partaking in discussions at the forum. So if you want to reach a basic level of enlightenment quickly then do that.

 

If you want a genuine taoist lineage then go learn Yi Gong from Jenny Lamb. It is very powerful, from a genuine Maoshan lineage and she seems like one of the most down to earth and sensible teachers around.

 

If you want physical power then just add a good martial art.

 

She also does (or did Viapssana) and says it fits well with Yi Gong.

 

So doing both should get you fast progress towards enlightenment and very high energy levels. You might pick up some siddhis on the way who knows but I don`t really see the point in being able to light things on fire with my chi as long as I have a steady supply of matches and lighters. If you do want Siddhis the classic buddhist way of getting them is to achieve the fourth Jhana and then ask for them to be developed right before you go into it. I really don`t know but I would guess that is actually a much easier way than to seek out Jhon Chang type masters and use a wide variety of qigong techniques to develop abilities. Seems much easier to access a high concentration state that although difficult to achieve can be taught to you by many people and that you will achieve as long as you put in the hours on the cushion.

[Astral_Anima]

If you want to get enlightened then read Daniel Ingrams Mastering the core teachings of the Buddha (it`s free on his website) and ask for practice advice on his forum dharmaoverground. His book presents a detailed map of all the stages on goes through up from begining up untill the highest stages of Budhist enlightenment except Buddhahood and how to skillfully and quickly progress in the different stages. It is remarkable to see how much faster people who have been doing Vipassana for years progress once they read the book and start partaking in discussions at the forum. So if you want to reach a basic level of enlightenment quickly then do that.

 

If you want a genuine taoist lineage then go learn Yi Gong from Jenny Lamb. It is very powerful, from a genuine Maoshan lineage and she seems like one of the most down to earth and sensible teachers around.

 

If you want physical power then just add a good martial art.

 

She also does (or did Viapssana) and says it fits well with Yi Gong.

 

So doing both should get you fast progress towards enlightenment and very high energy levels. You might pick up some siddhis on the way who knows but I don`t really see the point in being able to light things on fire with my chi as long as I have a steady supply of matches and lighters. If you do want Siddhis the classic buddhist way of getting them is to achieve the fourth Jhana and then ask for them to be developed right before you go into it. I really don`t know but I would guess that is actually a much easier way than to seek out Jhon Chang type masters and use a wide variety of qigong techniques to develop abilities. Seems much easier to access a high concentration state that although difficult to achieve can be taught to you by many people and that you will achieve as long as you put in the hours on the cushion.

 

 

Markern, what exactly is your definition of enlightenment? Or if the buddha had one what was his. From what I have observed I have NO desire to be enlightened, but perhaps I am just confused as to what it really is.

 

As for the Mao-shan sect...I have a rather strong aversion to that. It seems to train your Unconscious mind and leave your conscious mind less powerful. I'd rather be in full control of my abilities and when to use them. I don't like the idea of depending on others for my power, or submitting my power to a force I don't completely trust. But i'm not a Mao-shan practitioner so i can't say this is truth, this is only my impression. i could easily be DEAD wrong.

[Sahaj Nath]

Markern, what exactly is your definition of enlightenment? Or if the buddha had one what was his. From what I have observed I have NO desire to be enlightened, but perhaps I am just confused as to what it really is.

 

As for the Mao-shan sect...I have a rather strong aversion to that. It seems to train your Unconscious mind and leave your conscious mind less powerful. I'd rather be in full control of my abilities and when to use them. I don't like the idea of depending on others for my power, or submitting my power to a force I don't completely trust. But i'm not a Mao-shan practitioner so i can't say this is truth, this is only my impression. i could easily be DEAD wrong.

 

yes, you can be, and are, DEAD wrong.

 

 

the core "kunlun" practice IS the Yi Gong practice of Mao Shan. it was renamed and repackaged with some other exercises, but no actual relation to Kunlun Shan.

 

if you wish to discover, explore, and cultivate your OWN power, the Sifu Jenny Lamb's approach is going to be a superior choice to "Kunlun." but if you're just interested in acquiring cool powers as quickly as possible, then you're probably gonna find the "Kunlun" approach a lot more seductive, even though it would contradict your whole "depending on others for my power" thing.

 

and... how old are you? you seem really young, and you're a little too eager to dive into a whole world of stuff that you don't seem to understand very well. it would benefit you to slow down and do some reading. Magus of Java is all well and good if it inspired you, but you need to do some real reading and become a little more knowledgeable & discerning in your pursuit.

 

 

you'll never know what you REALLY want until you know yourself. Vipassana (Insight Meditation) with Spring Forest Qigong is a great place to start while you're studying and doing research. In fact, it's a great place to stay for a good while. BUT, you never answered my question about whether or not you actually paid for the SFQ program. if you were willing to waste thousands of dollars on Verdesi, you should at least demonstrate (to yourself) that YOU have the proper moral character to honor the work of Master Chunyi Lin by actually paying for his program. he doesn't make fairytale promises, but that doesn't mean he's not on the level; it just means he's a decent human being.

[Aetherous]

Hello Hundun,

 

To clear some misconceptions up...

 

the core "kunlun" practice IS the Yi Gong practice of Mao Shan.

 

This isn't true at all.

 

Kunlun is a system of many practices, and red phoenix would be a more important one. Yi gong in Kunlun is done in a very different way (internal), and has a more alchemical focus...for this reason it isn't called yi gong, and isn't considered to be equivalent to yi gong. In my experience having tried both ways, the internal way is a greatly superior approach.

 

...no actual relation to Kunlun Shan.

 

You're right, none of it has any relation to Kunlun mountains, except through Taoist mythology. It was called Kunlun for other reasons, such as meaning the top of the head representing the peak of a mountain (all that it represents symbolically). Also the word Kun-lun itself has an interesting relationship with pre-Taoist shamans, and it also represents the path to immortality in Taoist myth.

 

if you wish to discover, explore, and cultivate your OWN power, the Sifu Jenny Lamb's approach is going to be a superior choice to "Kunlun."

 

I haven't studied with Sifu Jenny, but I know what she teaches and I disagree very much.

 

When it comes to Kunlun, if you feel interested in it, it's best to see for yourself and not believe the gossip.

 

(This is all that I will say about the subject...just to clarify the truth of the matter. I don't want to act as some Kunlun spokesperson on this forum...that's too much of a responsibility, to represent the whole tradition, as well as deal with the false impressions of who I am. I just want to be Scott. If people want to start arguments, as has happened so often in the past, I will just have to try my hardest to not post. )

 

Peace to you, Hundun.

[Birch]

"I don`t really see the point in being able to light things on fire with my chi as long as I have a steady supply of matches and lighters."

 

 

Although at some point you might find the ability to remain in good health and heal other people quite a reasonable proposal.

 

By all means go learn to make shit catch fire, but when you're done with that, come back and do something useful

[Astral_Anima]

yes, you can be, and are, DEAD wrong.

 

 

the core "kunlun" practice IS the Yi Gong practice of Mao Shan. it was renamed and repackaged with some other exercises, but no actual relation to Kunlun Shan.

 

if you wish to discover, explore, and cultivate your OWN power, the Sifu Jenny Lamb's approach is going to be a superior choice to "Kunlun." but if you're just interested in acquiring cool powers as quickly as possible, then you're probably gonna find the "Kunlun" approach a lot more seductive, even though it would contradict your whole "depending on others for my power" thing.

 

and... how old are you? you seem really young, and you're a little too eager to dive into a whole world of stuff that you don't seem to understand very well. it would benefit you to slow down and do some reading. Magus of Java is all well and good if it inspired you, but you need to do some real reading and become a little more knowledgeable & discerning in your pursuit.

 

 

you'll never know what you REALLY want until you know yourself. Vipassana (Insight Meditation) with Spring Forest Qigong is a great place to start while you're studying and doing research. In fact, it's a great place to stay for a good while. BUT, you never answered my question about whether or not you actually paid for the SFQ program. if you were willing to waste thousands of dollars on Verdesi, you should at least demonstrate (to yourself) that YOU have the proper moral character to honor the work of Master Chunyi Lin by actually paying for his program. he doesn't make fairytale promises, but that doesn't mean he's not on the level; it just means he's a decent human being.

 

Hundun,

I don't agree with the concept that you put forth of "knowing yourself" in the sense that there is sum "true self" that is hidden somewhere inside you. That seems to be nothing more than a psychological tool to manipulate people. I believe that personality is transient and is to be shaped by our will. I have made the choice of who I am to become so in that sense I already know myself. I also know my current personality/habbits/responses and it's difference from what I am to become.

I am indeed rather young , and you're right I am rather eager to make up for my past laziness. I have wasted 19 years of my life doing nothing of meaning and i'd rather not waste any more time. I have much to do before I can be at peace with myself and atone for my mistakes.

Clearly you know much more on this subject then I, perhaps you can suggest some reading? I do not resonate well with Kunlun. I like the idea of Yi-Gong, but I do it in my own way. Magus of Java was indeed inspiring because it opened my eyes to a higher level of potential that I never dreamed I would find in this world. Don't get me wrong, I have little desire to go around setting things on fire and levitating and such, I have my own reasons for getting involved in such practice.

No I have not paid for SFQ, i downloaded the whole thing off torrents. I never wanted to pay Verdesi, in fact I don't even believe in money, I think it's SICK, disgusting, repulsive; I hate myself that I have to use it. I don't have much of it either. Atm I have $2.78 to my name, the Verdesi plan was one that would involve quite a bit of work, lol. Thankfully through study I believe I may have found another lead or two, so we'll see how that goes...

[Sahaj Nath]

Hundun,

I don't agree with the concept that you put forth of "knowing yourself" in the sense that there is sum "true self" that is hidden somewhere inside you. That seems to be nothing more than a psychological tool to manipulate people. I believe that personality is transient and is to be shaped by our will. I have made the choice of who I am to become so in that sense I already know myself.

 

you're disagreeing with a concept that i never put forth. i'll just clarify this, and then leave it alone. you don't seem to be very open, as you seem to believe you already "get" things which you clearly do not, the issue of "knowing yourself" being just one of them.

 

your views about yourself, your goals, and your world, are all skewed by fears, traumas, shameful desires, and a whole host of other variables that no one likes to own or fully acknowledge about themselves. in psychology they call these things shadow material. Insight Meditation (Vipassana) IS, in fact, a psychological tool (among many other things) which can begin to unearth much of this material and allow you to see clearly and actually heal deep-seated areas of trauma, insecurity, fear, and the like. it's not a tool that anyone uses against you. it's a vehicle for profound self-awareness and clarity. and it could save you many years of chasing after objects or notions, only to discover in the end that they weren't what you had hoped them to be.

 

if i might use an analogy, it's like people who are obsessed with material success. if they were to sit and really face themselves long enough and diligently enough, they might discover that what they were really chasing after was a notion of significance, or importance, both of which might be rooted in a deep insecurity that has been with them since the occurrence of some childhood event. if that root is never dealt with, then that person's "accomplishments" will never fulfill them.

 

so that's more what i was getting at when i mentioned knowing yourself. without that fundamental self-awareness and self-honesty, and without the fundamental courage to face one's shadow material, you simply will not get very far in these practices. there are tons of people who train for decades and never progress past a very low-level mediocrity. and the deep-seated subtle stuff is not accessible through normal intellectual self-inquiry. you need to employ the proper tools to gain access to that data. hence, Vipassana.

 

 

and one last thing:

 

you never "wanted" to pay Verdesi for the training, but your own words state that you were willing to if he really had the goods. you were even willing to overlook morals. so now you have Spring Forest Qigong from a highly accomplished master who charges only a very modest sum for his program. i only pointed it out because you stated how much you REALLY LIKED the moral vows of the Mo Pai. so again i say to you that if morals is something that you truly value, then you should honor the teachings of Master Chunyi Lin by simply paying what he has asked. because the fact is you would work to come up with 10 times that much if he were making the same claims that Verdesi makes.

 

i'm done. and i don't expect you to take too much stock of what i have written here, and that's okay. but there are always other readers who benefit from exchanges like these.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Hundun

[Astral_Anima]

you're disagreeing with a concept that i never put forth. i'll just clarify this, and then leave it alone. you don't seem to be very open, as you seem to believe you already "get" things which you clearly do not, the issue of "knowing yourself" being just one of them.

 

your views about yourself, your goals, and your world, are all skewed by fears, traumas, shameful desires, and a whole host of other variables that no one likes to own or fully acknowledge about themselves. in psychology they call these things shadow material. Insight Meditation (Vipassana) IS, in fact, a psychological tool (among many other things) which can begin to unearth much of this material and allow you to see clearly and actually heal deep-seated areas of trauma, insecurity, fear, and the like. it's not a tool that anyone uses against you. it's a vehicle for profound self-awareness and clarity. and it could save you many years of chasing after objects or notions, only to discover in the end that they weren't what you had hoped them to be.

 

if i might use an analogy, it's like people who are obsessed with material success. if they were to sit and really face themselves long enough and diligently enough, they might discover that what they were really chasing after was a notion of significance, or importance, both of which might be rooted in a deep insecurity that has been with them since the occurrence of some childhood event. if that root is never dealt with, then that person's "accomplishments" will never fulfill them.

 

so that's more what i was getting at when i mentioned knowing yourself. without that fundamental self-awareness and self-honesty, and without the fundamental courage to face one's shadow material, you simply will not get very far in these practices. there are tons of people who train for decades and never progress past a very low-level mediocrity.

 

 

and one last thing:

 

you never "wanted" to pay Verdesi for the training, but your own words state that you were willing to if he really had the goods. you were even willing to overlook morals. so now you have Spring Forest Qigong from a highly accomplished master who charges only a very modest sum for his program. i only pointed it out because you stated how much you REALLY LIKED the moral vows of the Mo Pai. so again i say to you that if morals is something that you truly value, then you should honor the teachings of Master Chunyi Lin by simply paying what he has asked. because the fact is you would work to come up with 10 times that much if he were making the same claims that Verdesi makes.

 

i'm done. and i don't expect you to take too much stock of what i have written here, and that's okay. but there are always other readers who benefit from exchanges like these.

 

 

HAHAHA, "Yeah lets make an example of this kid who CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about so everyone can see how superior I am" You make me smile , jk jk. I mean I hear what you're saying...it's just... how can you honestly say anything so "profound" when you don't even know me, u know? I consider myself open enough to at least try and understand what you're saying, if you'd like i could just blow you off and insult you or try to make you seem inferior...but i'd rather ask you to PM me and talk to me a bit more as I'm actually curious what you have to say. I don't claim to "get things" other than myself to a certain degree, which is why i'm on here asking questions. but anyway I won't dwell on this, I will, however, sincerely ask that you PM me and perhaps I you can help me understand what you think i don't.

Peace

[Sahaj Nath]

hey Scotty,

 

as a person who is committed to the "kunlun" methods of practice, i don't expect us to see eye-to-eye on this. i'm not going to pursue this matter beyond this one post.

 

Hello Hundun,

 

 

This isn't true at all.

 

Kunlun is a system of many practices, and red phoenix would be a more important one. Yi gong in Kunlun is done in a very different way (internal), and has a more alchemical focus...for this reason it isn't called yi gong, and isn't considered to be equivalent to yi gong. In my experience having tried both ways, the internal way is a greatly superior approach.

 

what you are stating here is actually a newer re-interpretation of the system. in 2007 the yi gong practices specifically were being labeled "Kunlun," supposedly from the Kunlun school, complete with a story about the temple, and being one of 4 people who are able to leave the temple and teach every 100 years, and everything. red phoenix was part of his new system, but was from Mao Shan, not Kunlun. the story morphed little by little over the next couple of years, and Kunlun got exchanged with Mao Shan in some instances, and eventually arrived at the current narrative. but his claim was that he had been trained in 3 Taoist traditions: Kunlun, Mao Shan, and Wudan. and the yi gong practices were from Kunlun.

 

You're right, none of it has any relation to Kunlun mountains, except through Taoist mythology. It was called Kunlun for other reasons, such as meaning the top of the head representing the peak of a mountain (all that it represents symbolically). Also the word Kun-lun itself has an interesting relationship with pre-Taoist shamans, and it also represents the path to immortality in Taoist myth.

 

again, this is from the new current narrative, and this is NOT what he used to claim.

 

this clip isn't even one of the oldest videos, but the references he makes to Kunlun even here are a lot more consistent with what i just stated above.

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=105089444

 

HIS words. it wasn't my intention to make a thing out of this, but we should at least be able to agree about SOME of this.

 

 

 

I haven't studied with Sifu Jenny, but I know what she teaches and I disagree very much.

 

When it comes to Kunlun, if you feel interested in it, it's best to see for yourself and not believe the gossip.

 

fair enough. my advice wasn't intended to be gossipy, but you have a point. and until someone knows for themselves, that's all it really is.

 

(This is all that I will say about the subject...just to clarify the truth of the matter. I don't want to act as some Kunlun spokesperson on this forum...that's too much of a responsibility, to represent the whole tradition, as well as deal with the false impressions of who I am. I just want to be Scott. If people want to start arguments, as has happened so often in the past, I will just have to try my hardest to not post. )

 

Peace to you, Hundun.

 

not interested in fighting with you either, brother, but neither am i averse to arguments being made and/or evaluated. but some things really aren't open to interpretation. they are either true or they are not. if things are taught differently now, then that's fine too, and i stand corrected about the current "core" of the system. but otherwise, i stand by what i said.

 

 

EDIT:

 

here's the other clip. much shorter.

 

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=105085386

 

after the movie intro, at 2:24:

 

"In Kunlun, every 100 years, 4 people are allowed to leave the temple."

 

the practices from that temple (which we now know isn't real) were supposed to be the core of his system. and THAT was why he named it all Kunlun. i'm not a liar, bro. things might be a little different now, but i didn't just make up what i stated.

Edited July 12, 2010 by Hundun

[Sahaj Nath]

HAHAHA, "Yeah lets make an example of this kid who CLEARLY doesn't know what he's talking about so everyone can see how superior I am" You make me smile , jk jk. I mean I hear what you're saying...it's just... how can you honestly say anything so "profound" when you don't even know me, u know? I consider myself open enough to at least try and understand what you're saying, if you'd like i could just blow you off and insult you or try to make you seem inferior...but i'd rather ask you to PM me and talk to me a bit more as I'm actually curious what you have to say. I don't claim to "get things" other than myself to a certain degree, which is why i'm on here asking questions. but anyway I won't dwell on this, I will, however, sincerely ask that you PM me and perhaps I you can help me understand what you think i don't.

Peace

 

no one is trying to make an example of you. i have my own students & practices to tend to and don't need to waste my time trying to be superior to you. i share with the hopes that what i say is of benefit to someone, even if not you. and if you DO let some of it in and find benefit, that's great. if you have taken offense to my tone, then i apologize, because that wasn't my intent. but i don't ever pretend to sugar-coat things, nor do pretend to be falsely modest. i don't go out of my way to be harsh, either. i'm just me. shooting as straight as i know how to. this is how i roll.

 

 

you are welcome to PM me about anything you wish, but unless you have questions or points of clarification you want made, i have nothing else to share until you ask it.

[Birch]

Damn, Hundun, you're cool!

 

- BTW if anyone comes across these people in meatspace I am pretty much willing to suggest that it will be pleasant for all. Shit when's the last time I could count sharp on so many continents?

 

All of which is very reassuring.

 

My heart can beat some more.

[Aetherous]

Hundun,

 

i'm not a liar, bro. things might be a little different now, but i didn't just make up what i stated.

 

Oh I know...things were taught differently in the past for any number of reasons. It's kunfusing!

[mjjbecker]

Save up the relatively modest amount of money required and attend a seminar by Michael Lomax (Ya Mu). If that doesn't do it for you, I don't think anything else will.

 

If Michael was Chinese, used arcane language, did the whole enigmatic facade, charged silly money, etc. he'd have people kicking his door down to learn from him. Instead, because he is down to earth, friendly and doesn't bullshit, those who are looking for the whole circus act wander on by. Their loss.

[lino]

For those of you who know,

 

White Tara was framed for bullshit.

 

You'll know if it is happening in your house

 

and you have taken a class with Santiago or

even visited this website. This may be more

complicated than I or Santiago think.

 

Don't associate the Hoshin to this. I know

Soke Rob Williams's brother...and there is

no way.

 

Fuck this shit. Too much drama.

Edited July 18, 2010 by lino