BP Water-Fire alchemy: NOT a political thread, please

[Taomeow]

I'm looking for some input from alchemists -- primarily taoist practitioners, but Western alchemy literati are also welcome --

and I'm opening this thread in hopes of keeping it to the point, to wit, limited to alchemical concerns. If anyone wants to promote or debunk anything political in relation to the issue, please open your own thread for the purpose or contribute to the one (not this one) already in existence on the board.

 

So here goes. Far as I can see in terms of raw primal energies involved, BP et al are engaged in a Water-Fire alchemical process for the purpose of producing Gold, in the classic traditions of Western external alchemy but on an unprecedented (far as I know) scale. I will not debate whether it was "done" rather than "happened" (please, another thread, anyone who would like to debate this), my premise is that it is in fact taking place, why it is taking place and whether it is taking place spontaneously or as a result of careful preparation prior to the fact, I leave entirely out. I would like to focus on the actual alchemical dynamics involved and enrich my own budding understanding with what others can see, sense, intuit, intellectualize, connect, and so on. What do you see happening, alchemically speaking?

[rain]

I'm looking for some input from alchemists -- primarily taoist practitioners, but Western alchemy literati are also welcome --

and I'm opening this thread in hopes of keeping it to the point, to wit, limited to alchemical concerns. If anyone wants to promote or debunk anything political in relation to the issue, please open your own thread for the purpose or contribute to the one (not this one) already in existence on the board.

 

So here goes. Far as I can see in terms of raw primal energies involved, BP et al are engaged in a Water-Fire alchemical process for the purpose of producing Gold, in the classic traditions of Western external alchemy but on an unprecedented (far as I know) scale. I will not debate whether it was "done" rather than "happened" (please, another thread, anyone who would like to debate this), my premise is that it is in fact taking place, why it is taking place and whether it is taking place spontaneously or as a result of careful preparation prior to the fact, I leave entirely out. I would like to focus on the actual alchemical dynamics involved and enrich my own budding understanding with what others can see, sense, intuit, intellectualize, connect, and so on. What do you see happening, alchemically speaking?

 

Taomeow, this is an intensely fascinating subject that instantly makes me tense up, which I try to avoid,, so I will post quickly and resume to my calm silent work.

I assume there are several taoists on the board with chemical expertise, all I want to say is;

What were your sources on this info? Would you care to share them with us?

 

(There has been discussed numerous variants of water, connected to taoist alchemy, we have the fusing of water and fire from Chia and other systems, ..one speaks of the Water method with the cool downwards flow..there is the ether/moist/vapour following qigong & primordial breathing.. in my experience I have now mentioned atleast two different kinds of water..then there is the water that is produced in the brain that Drew talks about in the bigu thread. I don't know if the distillation of nectar would count here?) ok. withdrawing now.

[Spectrum]

Present and accounted for. Observing. Holding hands in the circle of life.

[ralis]

Taomeow,

 

As I have stated before, BP et al are not that smart. Profit is their only concern. Exactly what are your sources for this so called alchemy that is supposedly dreamed up by BP?

 

Further, I am a currency trader and gold is over 1200/oz. If BP et al were to flood the market with gold, the price would drop significantly. Makes no sense, economically!

 

ralis

Edited July 14, 2010 by ralis

[gendao]

The plan was simply to destroy our water - and then seize greater control in the aftermath.

Based upon the 5 element cycle, Fire was used to create/overheat the Earth (oil) - which destroys Water. In addition, Fire itself also "insults" Water too...

 

Basically, Fire & Earth were both used to attack Water.

 

And once the water is destroyed - it will require & consume TONS of Metal (gold/money) to replenish it.

 

 

 

--- SKIP ADDITIONAL POLITICAL COMMENTARY BELOW ---

 

This will require far higher deficit borrowing from global bankers and plunge this country even deeper into a highly-taxed Socialist state - eventually all to be forfeited to these bankers we owe.

 

Check...

Edited July 14, 2010 by vortex

[ralis]

The plan was simply to destroy our water - and then seize greater control in the aftermath.

Based upon the 5 element cycle, Fire was used to create/overheat the Earth (oil) - which destroys Water. In addition, Fire itself also "insults" Water too...

 

Basically, Fire & Earth were both used to attack Water.

 

And once the water is destroyed - it will require & consume TONS of Metal (gold/money) to replenish it.

 

 

 

--- SKIP ADDITIONAL POLITICAL COMMENTARY BELOW ---

 

This will require far higher deficit borrowing from global bankers and plunge this country even deeper into a highly-taxed Socialist state - eventually all to be forfeited to these bankers we owe.

 

Check...

 

 

Where do you find this over the edge conspiracy stuff? I am not convinced these people don't have any aptitude to do this. Show me some proof!

 

ralis

[Aetherous]

Far as I can see in terms of raw primal energies involved, BP et al are engaged in a Water-Fire alchemical process for the purpose of producing Gold, in the classic traditions of Western external alchemy but on an unprecedented (far as I know) scale.

 

Really interesting thought. I'm also curious about what makes you think this...

[ralis]

Really interesting thought. I'm also curious about what makes you think this...

 

I am waiting also for the rational behind Taomeow's thinking.

 

ralis

[DarthBane]

My reply is definately non political. However working with elements for manipulating them or actual physical transmutation is often known as an evil-power. I await for someone else experienced in energy to chime in on this.

 

The ability for people to be able to transmute a physical element into another (here we speak of earth elements) would be rare.

 

Try finding an elementalist who can or knows how to manipulate the elements or the 5 elements. This should give some idea of the difficulty level. But why would you want to speak to those people?

[ralis]

[Taomeow]

Taomeow, this is an intensely fascinating subject that instantly makes me tense up, which I try to avoid,, so I will post quickly and resume to my calm silent work.

I assume there are several taoists on the board with chemical expertise, all I want to say is;

What were your sources on this info? Would you care to share them with us?

 

(There has been discussed numerous variants of water, connected to taoist alchemy, we have the fusing of water and fire from Chia and other systems, ..one speaks of the Water method with the cool downwards flow..there is the ether/moist/vapour following qigong & primordial breathing.. in my experience I have now mentioned atleast two different kinds of water..then there is the water that is produced in the brain that Drew talks about in the bigu thread. I don't know if the distillation of nectar would count here?) ok. withdrawing now.

 

Hi Rain,

 

thanks for your thoughts... and it's definitely a good idea to watch out for when we tense up in response to a subject... relax and don't let the bastards grind us down.

 

What information do you mean my sources are of? If of the happenings in the Gulf in the context of other happenings in the world, that's thousands of hours of prior research, some ten years invested into trying to "get it," with zero reliance on syndicated media sources at that --

so I specifically asked everybody to keep the thread politics-free because I don't want to talk outta you know what and to talk out of my research would hijack my life into something pretty endless, and that's what I was trying to avoid. If your question is about where I get the information that the process in the Gulf is alchemical in its nature, which is exactly what I wanted to explore --

well, that's the kind of recognition you get from having been exposed to alchemical processes yourself, you don't youtube that, nor google, you use your pattern recognition skills... or rather, they use you?..

 

The reason I want to get input from similarly pattern-recognition-trained folks is that there's many blanks in the picture and many disinformation sources and non-information sources that I want to bypass, and to be able to do that, I have to understand the logistics of the process myself. E.g., Gerald Celente, a rather famous and very accurate American trend forecaster, publisher of the Trends Journal, hasn't dis- or mis-informed me in the past, unlike CNN et al... so when he says the disaster itself will generate trillions of dollars for the very people who have created it, the taoist in me makes note of a "gold making process" and hypothetically phases it in. Then she (the taoist in me) looks at Western external alchemical tradition and notices that fire-water are used in conjunction with lead-mercury, e.g., and starts looking for lead-mercury in the process unfolding to see if it fits the picture. No information is available, e.g., about the composition of Corexit, the formula is secret (and the name orwellian, and the obligatory x in it disturbing), but I know that any hint from anywhere of lead and mercury in it would corroborate the alchemical picture, while a definitive absence of any from anything used would make me question it. And so on.

 

I have to look at multiple sources "holographicaly" to get it, something very complex can't be simplified to any simple explanation without generating a lie. And what's going on is easily the most complex thing to ever go on. I worked as a technical writer for oil and gas inustries for a few years in the beginning of my working life, and my both parents are professionals in the field -- my father headed a research lab and my mother designed major pipelines. So when I say "complex" I mean I have somewhat of a frame of reference...

w a y complex... so I can't call what I have "information" yet... just a feel for its nature and dimentions, more like...

[Encephalon]

You could probably make the argument that classical marxism, not the political theory but the pure economic analysis, views capitalism itself as an alchemical process, insofar as it is concerned with the transformation of the earth's raw resources into commodities and commodities into pure liquid capital. "Late stage" capitalism, characterized in part by the presence of a global consumer class (globalization), is the point where all resources, including all elements of human labor, sunlight, water sources, even DNA, are commodified and the transformation of raw materials to pure liquid capital is accelerated, until a further alchemical transformation of capital into political power becomes the norm.

 

The 200 year-old history of oil, and the power of the oil lobby throughout most industrial nations, should be evidence enough to any observer that the alchemical effect is real if not metaphorical. But just as we know that the elements have controlling relationships to others, we will soon see oil transformed into so much CO2 that all the political power in the world will not be able to cool us down. In fact, we've already passed the point of no return and will have to wait several thousand years for the carbon cycle to naturally re-sequester enough atmospheric carbon to make equatorial and mid latitude regions inhabitable again. Until then, the era of the Polar Peoples, characterized by semi-nomadic tribes within the Arctic Circle and Antarctica, will prevail.

 

Sorry to sound gloomy, but I'm just relating James Lovelock's assessment. One could almost feel romantic for the adventures ahead for 22nd century humans. Unsustainable oil-based culture runs its course, the human herd is culled by 90%, and an era of tribal confederacies reign. That's alchemical, is it not?

Edited July 14, 2010 by Blasto

[Mokona]

In a friends practice his Chi kung is limited and works with other energies he mentioned noticing on what he calls the etheric level.

He sees a distinct fire, earth, air and water element as well as changes the energy goes through when he combines these energies.

 

We have spoken about physical manifestation through the use of this, is this what you meant? I don't find that I am quite following your post.

[Birch]

None of the following is rational but I'll throw it out there anyway.

 

"Unsustainable oil-based culture runs its course,"

 

- but until it does then it will be "pumped" for all it's worth (no pun intended)

 

"the human herd is culled by 90%"

 

- I suggest this one will happen faster due to the acceleration of the religious wars we're about to hit. The Earth its/herself is driving it - the oil came from the lives of organisms (some of whom I speculate used to be "us") who may very well have more fight left in them than we think.

 

They "ask" for a (relatively) short-term sacrifice from the sea they came from to help the planet get rid of the offending people - "do this to the Earth? Here is what the Earth will drive you to do to yourselves."

 

"and an era of tribal confederacies reign"

 

- and why not? If it works better for everything?

 

I think the short-term gains to be made by some throughout the process are recognized as such and found to be acceptable, otherwise we'd see more desire and real attempts to halt it.

[Taomeow]

In a friends practice his Chi kung is limited and works with other energies he mentioned noticing on what he calls the etheric level.

He sees a distinct fire, earth, air and water element as well as changes the energy goes through when he combines these energies.

 

We have spoken about physical manifestation through the use of this, is this what you meant? I don't find that I am quite following your post.

 

My fault -- I'm trying to formulate an inquiry but am forced to leave out a few crucial premises (political AND taoist, for different reasons of course), so I am acutely aware of my own lack of clarity in expressing myself in this one.

 

"Magic" is the technical term for what you and your friend have been discussing. It's much broader than, though inclusive of, "alchemy." "Alchemy" is primarily concerned with transmutation of elements. "Magic" may or may not be concerned with that. Of course a hard core occultist will always interlace an alchemical endeavor with magic... but not every magician will do alchemy and not every alchemist will do magic.

[Taomeow]

You could probably make the argument that classical marxism, not the political theory but the pure economic analysis, views capitalism itself as an alchemical process, insofar as it is concerned with the transformation of the earth's raw resources into commodities and commodities into pure liquid capital. "Late stage" capitalism, characterized in part by the presence of a global consumer class (globalization), is the point where all resources, including all elements of human labor, sunlight, water sources, even DNA, are commodified and the transformation of raw materials to pure liquid capital is accelerated, until a further alchemical transformation of capital into political power becomes the norm.

 

The 200 year-old history of oil, and the power of the oil lobby throughout most industrial nations, should be evidence enough to any observer that the alchemical effect is real if not metaphorical. But just as we know that the elements have controlling relationships to others, we will soon see oil transformed into so much CO2 that all the political power in the world will not be able to cool us down. In fact, we've already passed the point of no return and will have to wait several thousand years for the carbon cycle to naturally re-sequester enough atmospheric carbon to make equatorial and mid latitude regions inhabitable again. Until then, the era of the Polar Peoples, characterized by semi-nomadic tribes within the Arctic Circle and Antarctica, will prevail.

 

Sorry to sound gloomy, but I'm just relating James Lovelock's assessment. One could almost feel romantic for the adventures ahead for 22nd century humans. Unsustainable oil-based culture runs its course, the human herd is culled by 90%, and an era of tribal confederacies reign. That's alchemical, is it not?

Doom and gloom? You're a glowing optimist. 22nd century humans?.. I wish I was a starry-eyed dreamer who could believe in them.

 

Very interesting analysis, by the way... but I do actually mean physical external alchemy, with the crucible, the bellows, the distilled goodies to add, the whole nine yards. Not metaphorical. Hands-on stuff.

[ralis]

My fault -- I'm trying to formulate an inquiry but am forced to leave out a few crucial premises (political AND taoist, for different reasons of course), so I am acutely aware of my own lack of clarity in expressing myself in this one.

 

"Magic" is the technical term for what you and your friend have been discussing. It's much broader than, though inclusive of, "alchemy." "Alchemy" is primarily concerned with transmutation of elements. "Magic" may or may not be concerned with that. Of course a hard core occultist will always interlace an alchemical endeavor with magic... but not every magician will do alchemy and not every alchemist will do magic.

 

The problem I have with your theory is that alchemy is a very difficult procedure. I have known several alchemists who have failed miserably. There is an alchemist in Utah (Dr. Joe Champion) who claims to be able to transform silver into gold. I don't think he is for real.

 

I find your theory difficult to believe.

 

 

ralis

[Taomeow]

The problem I have with your theory is that alchemy is a very difficult procedure. I have known several alchemists who have failed miserably. There is an alchemist in Utah (Dr. Joe Champion) who claims to be able to transform silver into gold. I don't think he is for real.

 

I find your theory difficult to believe.

ralis

 

It's only the first trillion that's difficult to make.

[thelerner]

It's only the first trillion that's difficult to make.

:lol:

[Andrei]

Alchemy is not about making Gold the Heavymetal out of lead, or oil or whatever...

Is about making Golden Light out of Water.

From Water to Vapor to Fire, to Light.

From Jing to Chi to Shen to Tao.

Or the real modern alchemy may be from Plutonium making Americius, then Ununpentium, then making Antigravity and Wormholes and whatnot.

BP oil leak is just that... a leak of the Planet's blood.

 

 

[Brian]

...

[rain]

Hi Rain,

 

thanks for your thoughts... and it's definitely a good idea to watch out for when we tense up in response to a subject... relax and don't let the bastards grind us down.

 

What information do you mean my sources are of? If of the happenings in the Gulf in the context of other happenings in the world, that's thousands of hours of prior research, some ten years invested into trying to "get it," with zero reliance on syndicated media sources at that --

so I specifically asked everybody to keep the thread politics-free because I don't want to talk outta you know what and to talk out of my research would hijack my life into something pretty endless, and that's what I was trying to avoid. If your question is about where I get the information that the process in the Gulf is alchemical in its nature, which is exactly what I wanted to explore --

well, that's the kind of recognition you get from having been exposed to alchemical processes yourself, you don't youtube that, nor google, you use your pattern recognition skills... or rather, they use you?..

 

The reason I want to get input from similarly pattern-recognition-trained folks is that there's many blanks in the picture and many disinformation sources and non-information sources that I want to bypass, and to be able to do that, I have to understand the logistics of the process myself. E.g., Gerald Celente, a rather famous and very accurate American trend forecaster, publisher of the Trends Journal, hasn't dis- or mis-informed me in the past, unlike CNN et al... so when he says the disaster itself will generate trillions of dollars for the very people who have created it, the taoist in me makes note of a "gold making process" and hypothetically phases it in. Then she (the taoist in me) looks at Western external alchemical tradition and notices that fire-water are used in conjunction with lead-mercury, e.g., and starts looking for lead-mercury in the process unfolding to see if it fits the picture. No information is available, e.g., about the composition of Corexit, the formula is secret (and the name orwellian, and the obligatory x in it disturbing), but I know that any hint from anywhere of lead and mercury in it would corroborate the alchemical picture, while a definitive absence of any from anything used would make me question it. And so on.

 

I have to look at multiple sources "holographicaly" to get it, something very complex can't be simplified to any simple explanation without generating a lie. And what's going on is easily the most complex thing to ever go on. I worked as a technical writer for oil and gas inustries for a few years in the beginning of my working life, and my both parents are professionals in the field -- my father headed a research lab and my mother designed major pipelines. So when I say "complex" I mean I have somewhat of a frame of reference...

w a y complex... so I can't call what I have "information" yet... just a feel for its nature and dimentions, more like...

 

 

------

get your drift. posted a lengthy response that a new firefox alert chased away. I forgot to mention the sweet qigong water the grandmasters are making, what do you know of this Taomeow? is there saccarids involved?

 

I've been wondering if there is some connection btw natural oils, being "liquid consisting of a complex mixture of hydrocarbons of various molecular weights, and other organic compounds, and

 

how will the oil and groce amount of plastic pollution already in our oceans influence our organisms?

 

("The hydrocarbons in crude oil are mostly alkanes, cycloalkanes and various aromatic hydrocarbons while the other organic compounds contain nitrogen, oxygen and sulfur, and trace amounts of metals such as iron, nickel, copper and vanadium"

"Two petrochemical classes are olefins including ethylene and propylene, and aromatics including benzene, toluene and xylene isomers. Oil refineries produce olefins and aromatics by fluid catalytic cracking of petroleum fractions. Chemical plants produce olefins by steam cracking of natural gas liquids like ethane and propane. Aromatics are produced by catalytic reforming of naphtha. Olefins and aromatics are the building blocks for a wide range of materials such as solvents, detergents, and adhesives. Olefins are the basis for polymers and oligomers used in plastics, resins, fibers, elastomers, lubricants, and gels.")

 

Are we slowly turning into cyborgs? from what I've heard millions have already implanted or injected silicon..

how will this influence our ability to perform alchemical process?

 

 

 

ahem. feeling silly.

Edited July 15, 2010 by rain

[Taomeow]

------

get your drift. posted a lengthy response that a new firefox alert chased away. I forgot to mention the sweet qigong water the grandmasters are making, what do you know of this Taomeow? is there saccarids involved?

 

I've been wondering if there is some connection btw natural oils, being "liquid consisting of a complex mixture of hydrocarbons of various molecular weights, and other organic compounds, and

 

how will the oil and groce amount of plastic pollution already in our oceans influence our organisms?

 

("The hydrocarbons in crude oil are mostly alkanes, cycloalkanes and various aromatic hydrocarbons while the other organic compounds contain nitrogen, oxygen and sulfur, and trace amounts of metals such as iron, nickel, copper and vanadium"

"Two petrochemical classes are olefins including ethylene and propylene, and aromatics including benzene, toluene and xylene isomers. Oil refineries produce olefins and aromatics by fluid catalytic cracking of petroleum fractions. Chemical plants produce olefins by steam cracking of natural gas liquids like ethane and propane. Aromatics are produced by catalytic reforming of naphtha. Olefins and aromatics are the building blocks for a wide range of materials such as solvents, detergents, and adhesives. Olefins are the basis for polymers and oligomers used in plastics, resins, fibers, elastomers, lubricants, and gels.")

 

Are we slowly turning into cyborgs? from what I've heard millions have already implanted or injected silicon..

how will this influence our ability to perform alchemical process?

 

ahem. feeling silly.

No, not silly at all! Apt...

 

I don't know about cyborgs... cyborgs are after all meant to function using whatever is used inside them... while we, with all the toxic goodies cumulatively accumulating in our bodies, only seem to mal-function from the addition... but in terms of flattened emotionality and dumbed-down senses, yes, it does look like we are led toward bridging the gap between human and man-made... I am reminded of that burning cyborg that rushes out of the nuclear plant catastrophically (though accidentally) sabotaged by Homer Simpson screaming, "WHY?.. WHY was I programmed to feel pain?!.."

 

There's two theories of what oil is... Dead wood -- the prevalent doctrine -- which if true makes it one of the classic qigong/TCM, etc., hazards to qi... "Above all, avoid accumulation of dead wood in your body." Or -- a more recent theory -- abiotic oil (Russian success finding it exactly where they look for it by following this theory gives it some empirical credibility -- as well as does irreparable damage to any and all politics and policies based on the idea of its supplies being limited and near-exhausted -- )

-- this, if true, may mean oil is as native to the body of earth as blood is native to the human body --

in which case my first reaction to the gusher news (what if they nicked an artery?..) is cold-sweat-worthy in its own right.

 

By the way, a youtuber seems to have accessed my morphogenetic field (or a personal akashic record) to come up with the same alchemical idea a day after I posted it here. If you're gonna watch it, turn the music down, it's very annoying, and be forewarned that the author is apparently a Rapture-oriented Crhistian...but the timing looks interesting to me synchronicity-wise...

[Guest paul walter]

I see water and fire being misused in a crude alchemical way to produce gold (vanity) and in the process the vessels get broken due to the greed (pressure) used into the process. In alchemy of interior or exterior process it is well known that the vessel/container can be easily damaged from forcing the elements together too strongy. This is a neat way of undrstanding things Taomeow -through metaphors, though it can be taken as quite literal/material as well. Most modern chemical processes end in disaster for life on earth in one way or another because the intention is to use the elements in ways that break the laws of harmony.

Edited July 17, 2010 by paul walter

[ralis]

I am still waiting to hear exactly what Taomeow's point is.

 

 

ralis