Time to move on

[Vajrahridaya]

I think the core message Little1 is putting across is: Cease bickering like little toddlers nudging for playground space!! :lol:

 

 

 

Welp... I'm for one into debate for the sake of fresh reminders in the heat of seeming friction. I find it a part of my practice.

 

I did kind of get that hint from him though.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[adept]

Death is an illusion of perception

 

Whaaaat! Death is death, the end of life. Period. When you die, you die.

It is belief in a rebirth or afterlife that keeps the coffers of religious institutions overflowing.

Buddhism is a religion of death, of what happens in the next life, and if you don't adhere to precepts(commandments in Christian faith), then you'll be reborn in hell or an animal, or a hungry ghost, etc etc.

Horseshit.

Try saying "Death is an illusion of perception" to the mother who has lost her child. How foolish.

[宁]

Death is really just a voyage to another life.

 

Only in our mind. But what do we really know?

[Marblehead]

Oh boy!!!

 

Another thread about the mis-definition, the mis-interpretation, and the mis-understandings of words.

 

I think I will stay out of this one.

 

Peace & Love!

[island]

The best thing for an argument is not words and ideas, but to stop arguing!

[Gerard]

Whaaaat! Death is death, the end of life. Period. When you die, you die...

 

Well another dogmatic statement. Do you have a proof? Or better...have you experienced it?

 

Eager to read your answer. Actually, I can't wait!

[adept]

Well another dogmatic statement. Do you have a proof? Or better...have you experienced it?

 

Eager to read your answer. Actually, I can't wait!

 

Well, all my grandparents are dead, as are there ancestors before them. That's all the proof I need.

Actually it's not dogmatic, it's provable. They are dead

Where is your proof of the afterlife. Nobody has come back from death and talked about it.

I don't want to hear quotes from 'holy' books either.

[C T]

Well, all my grandparents are dead, as are there ancestors before them. That's all the proof I need.

Actually it's not dogmatic, it's provable. They are dead

Where is your proof of the afterlife. Nobody has come back from death and talked about it.

I don't want to hear quotes from 'holy' books either.

Based on this premise, if death were that final, you would not be here now, would you? Do you not at least see some of your ancestors 'living' in and through you? Well not completely in the physical sense, but in the 'traits' sense? Would you not say some parts of your parents, for example, has taken form in this person called 'you'? This is only one way to see that death may not be that final... There could well be other ways of verifying for those who are open and willing enough to explore further.

 

Time to move on, i guess.

[adept]

Based on this premise, if death were that final, you would not be here now, would you? Do you not at least see some of your ancestors 'living' in and through you? Well not completely in the physical sense, but in the 'traits' sense? Would you not say some parts of your parents, for example, has taken form in this person called 'you'? This is only one way to see that death may not be that final... There could well be other ways of verifying for those who are open and willing enough to explore further.

 

Time to move on, i guess.

 

I agree that traits from my ancestors are present in me.

There are also traits of mine in my children.

But that is not 'me'. We all have separate lives and are different individuals.

My ancestors are physically dead.

The quote 'Death is an illusion of perception' is an ignorant and foolish thing to say, especially to those who have lost loved ones.

I'm sorry, but it makes me angry and quite upset.

These are the emotions that make me human I'm afraid.

 

What are these 'other ways of verifying' that you speak of ?

[C T]

I agree that traits from my ancestors are present in me.

There are also traits of mine in my children.

But that is not 'me'. We all have separate lives and are different individuals.

My ancestors are physically dead.

The quote 'Death is an illusion of perception' is an ignorant and foolish thing to say, especially to those who have lost loved ones.

I'm sorry, but it makes me angry and quite upset.

These are the emotions that make me human I'm afraid.

 

What are these 'other ways of verifying' that you speak of ?

I was making a generalized observation that different mystical traditions may have their own unique methods/teachings to lead its practitioners deeper into the studies of the processes that happen at death and beyond. I believe these revelations are often the privy of the very few truly serious students who would have spent years with one particular master, for example, and are then imparted with the 'secrets' so to speak.

 

Of course you are most correct in saying that there is also plenty of superfluous attributes surrounding this aspect of life that unfortunately is capitalized by religionists for the purpose of enriching coffers.

 

Death costs too much nowadays... ridiculous. Where i come from, some of the 'priests' who specializes in praying for the departed charges exorbitant fees for their services. They often arrive at the funeral house in their sleek Mercedes 350 SLK or BMW 735s. Seriously. And these are the Taoist priests i am referring to. (please - this is not putting down Taoism btw.) Its a fact. And this happens because all the rich people in my country are mostly Taoists, and can therefore afford to pay top dollar to ensure they get the best for the smooth transition of their loved ones.

 

Sometimes i wish that death was absolute. There would be so much less grief and people will save tons of money to look after the comforts in the 'life' after life.

Edited July 20, 2010 by CowTao

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Try saying "Death is an illusion of perception" to the mother who has lost her child. How foolish.

 

I'd console her.

 

I would not try to say much to a women who is very stern about her belief in the absolute of seeming death who has just lost her child unless she asked.

 

There's more to life than meets the 5 senses and this can be known directly through jhana, meditation, or at times simple and open contemplation. My understanding of past life and future possibilities after death comes from direct experience. You personally would benefit more from being agnostic about the afterlife as you don't know for sure.

 

No one is punished, we just reap what we sew, in this life and the next... endlessly, complex cause and effect. Life is an endless journey for me, I'm happy to say.

 

I guess you don't believe in many of the Zen authors of the quotes in your Zen Poem thread. They all believe in previous lives and afterlives, and their beliefs generally speaking come also from direct experience as you are quoting from Zen Masters who are all masters of meditation in the Buddhist tradition.

[Vajrahridaya]

The best thing for an argument is not words and ideas, but to stop arguing!

 

This is a debate. Debate is good for the mind.

[adept]

I guess you don't believe in many of the Zen authors of the quotes in your Zen Poem thread. They all believe in previous lives and afterlives, and their beliefs generally speaking come also from direct experience as you are quoting from Zen Masters who are all masters of meditation in the Buddhist tradition.

 

I've deleted all my Buddhist related posts.

You and your cohorts on this forum have beaten me to death with your fundamentalist preaching and claims of superiority.

Your 'Death is an illusion of perception' quote was the final nail in the coffin for me. It's disgusting.

I have no further interest in Buddhism or religions of any sort.

I'm also considering quitting this forum altogether.

I'll have to have a long think if I want to be part of this.

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, all my grandparents are dead, as are there ancestors before them. That's all the proof I need.

Actually it's not dogmatic, it's provable. They are dead

Where is your proof of the afterlife. Nobody has come back from death and talked about it.

I don't want to hear quotes from 'holy' books either.

 

You can talk to the dead directly when your wisdom eye opens. It depends though as some dead are too caught up in their next life. There are so many various dimensions that one can experience after life beyond the 5 senses. To take your view through the 5 senses as the end all be all would be quite limiting of your own potential.

[Marblehead]

 

I'm also considering quitting this forum altogether.

I'll have to have a long think if I want to be part of this.

 

I will just say that I think that would not be a good thing.

 

We should not get so emotionally involved in the discussions that we just want of leave a forum that does have discussions that are relavant to us.

 

Perhaps we should be more selective in deciding which threads we are going to get involved in and interact in only those.

 

Indeed, sometimes a discussion will get so far out for us we just want to scream. I scream now and then. But then when the screaming is over I return to my mellow-yellow self. Wu wei and all that, you know.

 

So let's not concern ourselves with whether or not some folks think that life and death are just illusions. What they think doesn't effect reality in the least. Not one bit.

 

We do have some nice Taoist philosophy discussions here and they sometime go into the very depth of the philosophy as witnessed by one currently ongoing thread.

 

There will always be war between the Buddhists and the Taoists. That's life. We are both right and we are both wrong but we both are neither right or wrong.

 

As long as we have good, thoughtful posts the board is serving a purpose.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

You can talk to the dead directly when your wisdom eye opens. It depends though as some dead are too caught up in their next life. There are so many various dimensions that one can experience after life beyond the 5 senses. To take your view through the 5 senses as the end all be all would be quite limiting of your own potential.

 

Hehehe. Yep. You can talk to the dead til your eyes turn red. But I promise, the dead person is not going to say anything in return. But then, some people take favor in doing this because it is the only way they ever win an arguement.

 

If you come back VJ, I am sure you are going to be a fundamentalist Baptist preacher. Maybe you were one in a previous life as well.

 

So tell me, What are your 6th, 7th, and 8th senses? I have a pretty good handle on the first five.

 

Peace & Love!

[goldisheavy]

Well, all my grandparents are dead, as are there ancestors before them. That's all the proof I need.

 

Just because you're unable to see someone, doesn't mean that person is gone from within their own point of reference. If I simply depart from you in some City and turn the corner, you can't see me anymore, but am I dead? It's possible that I move to another country and as a result of life, change completely how I look. Then I come back and you cannot recognize me. Am I dead? To you I am dead. To me, I am alive. That's the meaning of alternative frames of reference.

 

Actually it's not dogmatic, it's provable. They are dead

 

Well, the body isn't moving. That's what you mean. That's not much proof. For example, a person who is sleeping might not be moving, or a person who is clinically dead and is in process of being resuscitated might not be moving either, that doesn't mean they are dead from their own frame of reference. People who have been clinically dead have reported having experiences upon being successfully jump-started back to "life".

 

Where is your proof of the afterlife.

 

Where is your proof of tomorrow? You can't prove that tomorrow exists, and yet I bet you believe there is a tomorrow in store for you.

[Lucky7Strikes]

I've deleted all my Buddhist related posts.

You and your cohorts on this forum have beaten me to death with your fundamentalist preaching and claims of superiority.

Your 'Death is an illusion of perception' quote was the final nail in the coffin for me. It's disgusting.

I have no further interest in Buddhism or religions of any sort.

I'm also considering quitting this forum altogether.

I'll have to have a long think if I want to be part of this.

Really? That quickly?

 

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

This is a debate. Debate is good for the mind.

 

 

Vaj, are you keeping track of the number of people who claim to 'enjoy' your posts vs. the number of people who you have annoyed and otherwise pissed off by your cheerfully passive-aggressive style? I think the annoyed and irked are leading by quite a margin at this point.

 

Although, one has to admire your 'preach n' dis' style before following up with the "what, who me?" and "Look

in the mirror".

Edited July 20, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Pero]

Adept, WTF? This isn't a thread about someone's deceased loved one, so your whiny objections have no merit here. And there isn't a person in the world who hasn't or won't lose someone dear to them.

[Aetherous]

Adept,

 

I have enjoyed your contributions, and wish for you to stay.

[Brian]

..

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

This saying goodbye stuff is certainly infectious!

[Starjumper]

I like! However, I'm finding it difficult to locate the patience and love in this thread. While Vaj has a slew of time and patience on his side, I seem to miss the love. Does Vaj really want to understand another, or just convince bums of his Buddhist ways? For Starjumper, I often miss the love and patience. Add to the mix his raw disparagement of others. Tell me, are the above traits not two essential virtues of a good teacher?

 

Yes they are. I love my students and have a great deal of patience with them. I have no students here, and like a Ninja, I show you what I want you to see

[Starjumper]

I love them too.