Time to move on

[C T]

Now that is a concept well worth considering. Do we ever find what we are looking for?

 

Peace & Love!

I think lately i have begun to cease 'looking for...' so intensely.

[C T]

Or does it arrive naturally?

 

Peace & Love!

In your wisdom MH, what do you think this 'it' is?

[Gerard]

It is not about seeking anything but going through various stages towards liberation from karma and rebirth and the illusion that the mind creates. These elements are very powerful blocks and not easy to tackle as you all well know

 

Once liberation is attained you may voluntarily cease to exist in yor current living form. Why the need of prolonguing life (unless it is to serve a greater cause like teaching others) when you already entered nirvana during practice.

[C T]

It is not about seeking anything but going through various stages towards liberation from karma and rebirth and the illusion that the mind creates. These elements are very powerful blocks and not easy to tackle as you all well know

 

Once liberation is attained you may voluntarily cease to exist in yor current living form. Why the need of prolonguing life (unless it is to serve a greater cause like teaching others) when you already entered nirvana during practice.

Naturally DC. You are absolutely right!

 

Sometimes the harder one seeks the further one steps away from the 'it'. Perhaps its a state of 'allowing' a kind of settling, or resting, that brings about that which is already here.

 

In sitting, for example, there comes a point where one simply lets go of firstly outer distractions, then proceeding inside, the mind chatter slows down, then what is left? At that point what is there to separate one from the stateless state?

 

Getting used to this mode of 'being' is the key, i think, to recognizing one's true nature. Further than this, practice sets the stage for bringing this awareness forward into daily activities, allowing the renewed habits to take over old patterns. Its quite simple really, but never easy.

Edited July 21, 2010 by CowTao

[Gerard]

Yes just keep going, nice, slow and steady as I often hear from Vipassana teachers including self-proclaimed arhant Daniel Ingram. It is also a very defined process as taught by the last Buddha.

 

The work is simple as well: watch all phenomena come and go and let them go including all mental processes. From there more subtle mind changes start to occur as arising and passing have ceased to be present in the meditator's mind.

 

Various stages also called vipassana jhanas:

 

First Jhana. The meditator first explores his body, then his mind, discovering the three characteristics. The first jhana consist in seeing these points and in the presence of vitakka and vicara. Phenomena reveal themselves as appearing and ceasing.

 

Second Jhana. The practice seems effortless. Vitaka (the mental factor that mounts or directs the mind onto the object) and vicara (examination) both disappear.

 

Third Jhana. Piti, the joy, disappears too: there is only happiness (sukha) and concentration.

 

Fourth Jhana. It is characterised by purity of mindfulness due to equanimity. The practice leads to direct knowledge. The comfort disappears because the disolution of all phenomenona is clearly visible. The practice will show every phenomenon as unstable, transient, disenchanting. The desire of freedom will take place.

[C T]

Yes indeed, CowTao.

 

A line from Mark's last post resonates as well.

Hi RV!

 

I totally resonated with Mark's words too... simple, direct, and no jargon to sieve thru. Zen is wonderful like that.

 

I am sure there are many aspects of Taoist practices that nourishes this settling as well, but i have not been too engaged in learning more about it, so can't really say much more. That's one of the reasons i stick around i guess, cos sometimes there are some 'gems' being offered up, and indeed strikes me as nothing short of brilliance.

 

Much blessings.

[Marblehead]

In your wisdom MH, what do you think this 'it' is?

 

Hehehe. Don't you be attaching too much wisdom to me, I can be really dense sometimes.

 

"It", IMO, is inner peace and contentment. Everything else is supplimental.

 

And I think that, no, we never find that "it" while we are actively persuing it. Desires and striving always prevent it from becoming reality.

 

And I think this relates to the opening post in that when we place our expectations on externals we find that we are disappointed more often than we are pleased.

 

"It", inner peace and contentment, must come to us naturally, I think. We must become still and open our mind (and heart, whatever that is) so that "it" can enter our life unobstructed.

 

However, don't assume here that I am negating practice. I know that there are some here who think that I am as much against practice as I am against dogma. This is a misunderstanding, probably because I have not clearly defined my understanding on the subject of practice.

 

Practice is good because it can, but may not, lead us toward that condition where "it" can enter our essence. If it does happen then it is good, if not then I would suggest that it is time to change practices.

 

That's all for now.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

It is not about seeking anything but going through various stages towards liberation from karma and rebirth and the illusion that the mind creates. These elements are very powerful blocks and not easy to tackle as you all well know

 

See!!! You already know. (I disregarded the Buddhist concepts. Hehehe.)

 

Once liberation is attained you may voluntarily cease to exist in yor current living form. Why the need of prolonguing life (unless it is to serve a greater cause like teaching others) when you already entered nirvana during practice.

 

Here we would differ because I think that life is for living to its fullest potential. After we have attained "it", inner peace and contentment, is, IMO, the most important part of our life. It is then that we can live fully with the Three Treasures of Tao.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

Hey, Mr. V., what about the nineth and tenth elements of the eight-fold way?

 

9. Superior right knowledge?

10. Superior right liberation?

 

I've had glimpses of superior right knowledge, but never superior right liberation as I'm not a Buddha. I can only theorize on 10. based upon my glimpses of 9. and the Buddhas words.

 

From Wiki;

 

The acquired factors

 

In the Mahācattārīsaka Sutta[60][61] which appears in the Chinese and Pali canons, the Buddha explains that cultivation of the noble eightfold path leads to the development of two further factors, which are right knowledge, or insight (sammā-ñāṇa), and right liberation, or release (sammā-vimutti). These two factors fall under the category of wisdom (paññā).

[edit] Right knowledge and right liberation

 

Right knowledge is seeing things as they really are by direct experience, not as they appear to be, nor as the practitioner wants them to be, but as they truly are. A result of Right Knowledge is the tenth factor - Right liberation[62]

 

These two factors are the end result of correctly practicing the noble eightfold path, which arise during the practice of right concentration. The first to arise is right knowledge: this is where deep insight into the ultimate reality arises. The last to arise is right liberation: this is where self-awakening occurs and the practitioner has reached the pinnacle of their practice.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Hehehe. Yeah, I know, I truely am a softee at heart.

 

Like the song says, "I'll just say so-long because lovers never say goodbye."

 

I did meet back up with a lost lover once but it could never be as it was because things change, you know.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Aww, you just put me on a real downer man. I always hope that with a certain few it will be like no time has past at all, I still think it's a possibility. Sometimes I think it's dependent on how deep the connection was in the first place and how true they have allowed their heart to remain and be.

 

What I have found though is that they have re-framed their mind to such a degree that they almost convince themselves that what was wasn't in fact what it was. I have found that people are very good, over time, at adding a layer to themselves that covers the truth. Something of a protection mechanism.

 

I'm reminded of something I read a long time ago about a psychological study of prisoners. When they first enter prison on a long term sentence their mind will rebel against it, then they go through the stage of acceptance, after that they actually really believe they like it and want it, even fear freedom. I see so many people like this in one form or another. There are very few fighters in life, willing to face the discomfort of what inner freedom really means..... most choose comfort and security, as opposed to their own truth of the heart. Perhaps they have the right idea.... but... I still think it's sad.

 

Most put their first foot on the path of destiny and shit themselves and turn back. Luckily there is such a thing as reincarnation so they can try it next time round!!! :lol: (sorry man, I couldn't resist).

[Mark Foote]

There's a prophet with a yummy name (Cream? Creme? Creme de la Creme? -- something like that) who says that, and his voice is the loudest I've heard, but he didn't strike me as credible and seems whacked out or maybe I misunderstood... in any event, Maitreya of my mysterious introduction was nothing like what I was able to find wherever else I looked. (It's just occurred to me I might tell my Maitreya story in the Personal Practice section...)

 

 

Was it "Anatomy Trains" by any chance?

 

Can you give us a link if you decide to write your story?- thanks!

 

Best anatomy book for me was "Anatomy in Motion", by the dancer Blandine Calais-Germain; in particular, she has a fine set of illustrations of the ilio-lumbar ligaments, one pair of which supports the spine from the pelvis in flexion, the other pair of which in extension. My poor copy is here:

 

the ilio-lumbar ligaments

 

Here they are again, from the walls of the temple of Ramses at Luxor (this is a modern copy, but you can find photos of the original online):

 

Hapis and djed

 

For me this is the explanation of why the distinction between in-breath and out-breath was the mainstay of the Gautamid's practice; that's how the lower spine finds support, to free the motion of the sacrum in the cranial-sacral rhythm.

[Mark Foote]

 

 

These two factors are the end result of correctly practicing the noble eightfold path, which arise during the practice of right concentration. The first to arise is right knowledge: this is where deep insight into the ultimate reality arises. The last to arise is right liberation: this is where self-awakening occurs and the practitioner has reached the pinnacle of their practice.

 

The Pali Society translators gave them as right knowledge, and right freedom, this last which I enjoy more than right liberation. Freedom just is, for me, whereas liberation is always liberation from something. Well, I just threw it out there because you are keen on right view and the eight-fold path.

 

Speaking of which, have you seen "the great six-fold (sense) field" lecture, at the close of the middle-length sermon volumes? I have part of it here:

 

the great sixfold (sense) field

 

So there's a whole different take on how the eight-fold path is developed and brought to fruition.

 

I was writing Apepch7 the other day, we had a discussion about the last part of the pyramid texts, and the meaning of the Apophis, the great snake that represents evil and stops Osiris's sun-boat. Alright, lots of subconscious stuff going on there I think and fascinating indeed, yet the best for me was to recall that the fundamental of craving in the Gautamid's teaching was the desire for re-becoming. This I can relate to as I walk around (hopefully not walking into walls), and from this I have a clearer notion of the last of the four "fields" of mindfulness, sometimes translated as states of consciousness. Impermanence, yes, DO, yes, the craving to become again and attachment, aversion, and ignorance to follow, useful to me somehow. "The Majesty of the Pelican has fallen in the water; O snake, turn around, for Ra sees you", the close of the pyramid texts, I think.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Mark Foote

[Vajrahridaya]

The Pali Society translators gave them as right knowledge, and right freedom, this last which I enjoy more than right liberation. Freedom just is, for me, whereas liberation is always liberation from something. Well, I just threw it out there because you are keen on right view and the eight-fold path.

 

Yes, that is a nice sentiment. But, also in a sense, we actually are attaining liberation from an "it", our ignorance. At the same time, what you said works in the Dzogchen sense when the experiencer and experiences are self liberated in the cognition of the fact that indeed, everything is free as it is, as all is inherently empty of independent self existence, so free, fluid and without hindrance.

 

Speaking of which, have you seen "the great six-fold (sense) field" lecture, at the close of the middle-length sermon volumes? I have part of it here:

 

the great sixfold (sense) field

 

Yes my Buddha-Buddhy... I've read this. Very nice!

 

So there's a whole different take on how the eight-fold path is developed and brought to fruition.

 

I was writing Apepch7 the other day, we had a discussion about the last part of the pyramid texts, and the meaning of the Apophis, the great snake that represents evil and stops Osiris's sun-boat. Alright, lots of subconscious stuff going on there I think and fascinating indeed, yet the best for me was to recall that the fundamental of craving in the Gautamid's teaching was the desire for re-becoming. This I can relate to as I walk around (hopefully not walking into walls), and from this I have a clearer notion of the last of the four "fields" of mindfulness, sometimes translated as states of consciousness. Impermanence, yes, DO, yes, the craving to become again and attachment, aversion, and ignorance to follow, useful to me somehow. "The Majesty of the Pelican has fallen in the water; O snake, turn around, for Ra sees you", the close of the pyramid texts, I think.

 

Any symbol can reflect the wisdom you wish you perceive if you want to, as anything is self liberated as it is and without boundaries. It's just about right view applied to all aspects of perception. So, I to appreciate the symbols present in other traditions.

 

Please don't walk into walls as you still have to re-become for the next moment in the practical sense, but without craving and with selfless intention is all.

[Marblehead]

Most put their first foot on the path of destiny and shit themselves and turn back. Luckily there is such a thing as reincarnation so they can try it next time round!!! :lol: (sorry man, I couldn't resist).

 

Hehehe. That is funny but there is a lot of truth to it. (Well, except for the reincarnation part.)

 

But yes, many of us tend to build walls in order to keep the evils out. Thing is though is that we are also keeping out the nicies (I just made up that word, Hehehe) so we lose out on part of our life.

 

What's a little heart-break now and then? No big thing - the heart heals over time. We can always look back at the fun and enjoyment of the time past.

 

And we too change. What someone saw in us many years ago may not be there anymore. Maybe they wouldn't even like what we have become over the years of separation.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

People change throughout the days, minutes, hours, so every time we meet a friend, a lover, a parent, we are essentially meeting them anew.

 

Thus there is no absolute self, only relative.

[minkus]

Only yust read and must say its a pitty to see you go ! Good luck with practice

[Marblehead]

People change throughout the days, minutes, hours, so every time we meet a friend, a lover, a parent, we are essentially meeting them anew.

 

Nice thought.

 

Peace & Love!