Time to move on

[Marblehead]

OK, I will stay

 

 

I am honestly and sincerely glad you have made this decision.

 

Please don't allow our disagreements in philosophy to distort and distract from what we both have already offered here and what more we still have to offer.

 

Thanks for staying.

 

Peace & Love!

[Mal]

Hey dude, this is a Taoist forum, we don't follow Buddhist beliefs.

 

It does get a bit LOL or forehead slap territory sometimes but I do feel it's more personalities promoting "-ism's" than the "-ism" itself that causes much of that reaction.

 

anyhow back to my latest "distraction" from the so called main path

[Starjumper]

It really breaks my hard to see how fleeting is life in general and seeing spiritual people in this forum veering off the main path, which really is liberation from karma and rebirth.

I hope to not see this kind of bullshit on this forum any more. That is NOT the main path! It is Buddhist dogma. Do not assign your provincial view to reality, so you can say: it is the Buddhist main path if you want to be correct.

 

Try very hard to understand that some people LIKE life, they don't want to check out forever ASAP.

 

Your attachment to your dismal view is causing you suffering. Remember, Buddhists look at the dark side of life and suffer, Taoists look at both sides of life and have fun, OK?

[Gerard]

I hope to not see this kind of bullshit on this forum any more...

 

Look within yourself and you might find the answer. Good luck.

[Vajrahridaya]

I hope to not see this kind of bullshit on this forum any more. That is NOT the main path! It is Buddhist dogma. Do not assign your provincial view to reality, so you can say: it is the Buddhist main path if you want to be correct.

 

Try very hard to understand that some people LIKE life, they don't want to check out forever ASAP.

 

Your attachment to your dismal view is causing you suffering. Remember, Buddhists look at the dark side of life and suffer, Taoists look at both sides of life and have fun, OK?

 

This kind of mental dogma as posted above is like a personal religion of delusion.

 

You haven't studied much outside of your set of attached preferences, have ya?

 

Buddhism is about realizing the freedom inherent in selflessness, and freedom from unconscious rebirth. None of your view is actually what the Buddha taught, it's just what you think the Buddha taught. Two entirely different things that cannot be equated unless you take certain sentences completely out of context.

 

EDIT: The Buddha also taught that enlightenment is the freedom from all shadows, or "dark sides" as you put it. This really means perspectives based on ignorance, and has nothing to do with the black and white thinking that you are expressing.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[JustARandomPanda]

Why so much hate for Buddhism, Starjumper?

[That Guy]

Whats your definition of nei kung starjumper?

 

 

And I just know the hardcore guys I saw in "Among White CLouds" documentary looked like a bunch of depressed people (except 1, who had a group of students). Are those guys that leave everything and go live isolated until they whatever (ascend?) not following the teaching right? (if you ve seen the documentary)

And also in that, there was a guy close to enlightenment or something like that, they spoke with him a bit, seemed like a any miserable guy I can find just down the street, what gives?

[Vajrahridaya]

Are those guys that leave everything and go live isolated until they whatever (ascend?) not following the teaching right? (if you ve seen the documentary)

 

Yes, there are so many Taoist Masters that do just this as well. The longing for seclusion and just to "bliss in" during practice retreat is a great, great longing that doesn't come across too many human beings.

[Vajrahridaya]

<iframe src="http://www.videosurf.com/vembed/7675796?width=640&height=388&isAutoPlay=false" width="640" height="388" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" border="0"></iframe><p style="padding: 0px!important; padding-top: 5px!important; margin: 0px!important; font-size: 12px!important; width:px;"><a href="http://www.videosurf.com/video/amongst-white-clouds-trailer-7675796">Watch this video on VideoSurf</a> or see more <a href="http://www.videosurf.com/shaolin-temple-87423">Shaolin Temple Videos</a> or <a href="http://www.videosurf.com/guru-15138">Guru Videos</a></p>

Edited July 20, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[That Guy]

Yes, there are so many Taoist Masters that do just this as well. The longing for seclusion and just to "bliss in" during practice retreat is a great, great longing that doesn't come across too many human beings.

If the "bliss" is so great, why they so miserable looking? I've seen happy people, and they are not happy. They look depressed and miserable.

 

Do the teaching tell them they must do that?

 

 

EDIT:

 

The AMONG WHITE CLOUDS DOC.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5902279151658995270#

 

For Vajrahridaya, since his code is a little messy on this occasion

Edited July 20, 2010 by That Guy

[Vajrahridaya]

If the "bliss" is so great, why they so miserable looking? I've seen happy people, and they are not happy. They look depressed and miserable.

 

Do the teaching tell them they must do that?

 

 

You must be looking wrong.

 

check this link out... Amongst White Clouds

 

I've seen the video and saw nothing but blissful wisdom!!

 

Yogis of Tibet

 

Here's another link of some blissful Buddhists. Now, "blissing in" is not going to show outside, mostly it's just a deep inner depth of calm that is deeeeeeply blissful within and the face of the person will not show a smile at all. But, when they smile, it's an aaaamaaaazing smile! It has nothing to do with the teachings. But, if you've experienced the deep quiet bliss within, that has no outer reflection, then you know what I mean.

 

Though I do prefer the Yogis of Tibet of the Vajrayana Tantrics...

 

Sometimes unhappiness is merely in our way of looking and not in what we are looking at. On the deepest inner level, that's the whole truth actually. This is why Buddhism is all about perspective and the things we seem to do externally in discipline is really about changing the inner way of seeing or interpreting the things outside.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[That Guy]

You must be looking wrong.

 

check this link out... Amongst White Clouds

 

I've seen the video and saw nothing but blissful wisdom!!

 

Yogis of Tibet

 

Here's another link of some blissful Buddhists. Now, "blissing in" is not going to show outside, mostly it's just a deep inner depth of calm that is deeeeeeply blissful within and the face of the person will not show a smile at all. But, when they smile, it's an aaaamaaaazing smile! It has nothing to do with the teachings. But, if you've experienced the deep quiet bliss within, that has no outer reflection, then you know what I mean.

Well to me, the teachings sum up to something like this:

Try to do nothing, care about nothing, seek nothing so nothing can happen. That way you will never be disappointed in any way.

Seems like a life of nothing to me, sorry.

 

And for the "blissful wisdom", I cannot share that view. They seem depressed and to some extent trying to escape from their old life for some reason. No blissful wisdom, just a different point of view which seems to lead to a life of nothing.

 

If thats what you want go for it, I wont stop you or anything, but to me seems like a waste of a healthy life which could amount to some much more interesting experiences.

[Vajrahridaya]

Well to me, the teachings sum up to something like this:

Try to do nothing, care about nothing, seek nothing so nothing can happen. That way you will never be disappointed in any way.

Seems like a life of nothing to me, sorry.

 

 

Yeah... your perspective must be pivoting on some inner dogma or block.

 

I've seen Amongst White Clouds and didn't get anything like what you got at all. I don't think you are actually opening up to a wise viewing of the video. In fact, I know that you are not. But, as long as you are following a good spiritual tradition that benefits you and others around you for the positive... then... eh.

And for the "blissful wisdom", I cannot share that view. They seem depressed and to some extent trying to escape from their old life for some reason. No blissful wisdom, just a different point of view which seems to lead to a life of nothing.

 

Wow! Yeah... you ain't getting it... not meant to yet I suppose.

 

If thats what you want go for it, I wont stop you or anything, but to me seems like a waste of a healthy life which could amount to some much more interesting experiences.

 

:lol: These guys have more joy on the tips of their fingers than you know... but ok.

[That Guy]

The kinda response I expected. Well what can I say except you'll never know true happiness until you know the love of Jesus bro, you just don't get it yet, but I guess God must have other plans for you, not time yet.

 

I bare more happiness on the tip of my fingers as I type this then you know!

 

 

These discussions are kinda funny really :lol:

[Vajrahridaya]

Also... to say more. Through sitting meditation one can go more places in a shorter amount of time and see more things in a single second than one can through the 5 senses. But, enlightenment is also about integrating the inner experiences of meditation with the outer action of world living. The time for retreat into the mountains only benefits the coming into mundane activities of the normal populace as it did for me, and some will find a home taking retreat in the mountains and many will realize the way of true joy this way as well.

[passenger1980]

I think one should go on a retreat (temporary or permanently) without the feeling of evading society and worldly desires. Solitary retreats are not only for buddhists or taoists, but were done in all religions, and even by philophers and seekers of truth. We should be very honest regarding this and not delude ourselves.

 

Ultimately, the quest is for truth and a deeper insight of reality. That's basically it.

 

I agree one should not be feel forced to leave civilization if his/her desires are to have family, friends, enjoy art, enteirtainment, sports, etc. All these are wonderful things that bring joy to many of us, but any spiritual seeker knows that they are not a goal in themselves, they are impermanent and won't bring us true happiness or even peace for that matter. For some, these things don't bring the same exciment as for others though, they may have been in contact with a deeper reality and state of mind. For others the thought of being "alone" or without distractions in life terrifies them to death.

 

Ideally, the world could live perfectly fine with all these facets in balance, but not all of us have the same level of insight or wisdom. Sadly the time dedicated to mundane things is huge compared to the spiritual related.

[Vajrahridaya]

I think one should go on a retreat (temporary or permanently) without the feeling of evading society and worldly desires. Solitary retreats are not only for buddhists or taoists, but were done in all religions, and even by philophers and seekers of truth. We should be very honest regarding this and not delude ourselves.

 

Ultimately, the quest is for truth and a deeper insight of reality. That's basically it.

 

I agree one should not be feel forced to leave civilization if his/her desires are to have family, friends, enjoy art, enteirtainment, sports, etc. All these are wonderful things that bring joy to many of us, but any spiritual seeker knows that they are not a goal in themselves, they are impermanent and won't bring us true happiness or even peace for that matter. For some, these things don't bring the same exciment as for others though, they may have been in contact with a deeper reality and state of mind. For others the thought of being "alone" or without distractions in life terrifies them to death.

 

Ideally, the world could live perfectly fine with all these facets in balance, but not all of us have the same level of insight or wisdom. Sadly the time dedicated to mundane things is huge compared to the spiritual related.

 

Fabulous insight! I concur. To Everything there is a Season... turn, turn, turn, turn. To everyone as well.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

 

The Buddha also taught that enlightenment is the freedom from all shadows, or "dark sides" as you put it. This really means perspectives based on ignorance, and has nothing to do with the black and white thinking that you are expressing.

 

Can you talk more about this 'freedom from all shadows or dark sides'? What exactly is the Buddha's teaching on this?

Edited July 20, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

Can you talk more about this 'freedom from all shadows or dark sides'? What exactly is the Buddha's teaching on this?

 

Read the suttas. The Buddha talks about enlightenment being the illumination of all shadows.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Read the suttas. The Buddha talks about enlightenment being the illumination of all shadows.

 

That's all you have to say? "Read the suttas"? This from a guy who whips out pages and pages. I wonder what you think that means? Does it mean that there is no longer a shadow or dark side in the enlightened person? Or is it simply that the light is shone and illuminates the shadows in the world? You stated that Buddha said that "enlightenment is freedom all shadows" How do you take this statement? What shadows was he referring to? Inner, outer, or both?

[Vajrahridaya]

That's all you have to say? "Read the suttas"? This from a guy who whips out pages and pages. I wonder what you think that means? Does it mean that there is no longer a shadow or dark side in the enlightened person? Or is it simply that the light is shone and illuminates the shadows in the world? You stated that Buddha said that "enlightenment is freedom all shadows" How do you take this statement? What shadows was he referring to? Inner, outer, or both?

 

What I mean is there is no more unconscious. There is no more non-awareness about the cause or intention of ones thoughts and actions. If you are enlightened, you have turned the light on in your closet and you have dug up all your bones.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

What I mean is there is no more unconscious. There is no more non-awareness about the cause or intention of ones thoughts and actions. If you are enlightened, you have turned the light on in your closet and you have dug up all your bones.

 

I'll have to sit with that and let it percolate. I'm not sure that I can buy into that. Is that more a personal interpretation or a pretty universal one?

[Starjumper]

Why so much hate for Buddhism, Starjumper?

 

What makes you think it's hate? It isn't but I would like to know why you think it is. Keep in mind it's your method of viewing that causes your opinion.

[Vajrahridaya]

If the "bliss" is so great, why they so miserable looking? I've seen happy people, and they are not happy. They look depressed and miserable.

 

Do the teaching tell them they must do that?

 

 

I would also like to comment that taking an extended retreat into the mountains and leaving behind all ones wealth, family and positions in order to more fully discover how one's mind ticks and how nature works is not an easy task at all, for the vast majority that is. We also don't know at what point during an inner process these video's were taken of any of the particular "hermits". As... sometimes during retreat, you are very joyous for long periods of time, and then for a short period, you see something within that is disturbing and is coming to light. Some of these hermits might have been having some great inner things happening and didn't appreciate being let out of their cave during that time to talk with a naive Western seeker as well. They are after all "Hermits" looking within, away from the world for the sake of higher learning. Some of them did indeed seem quite enlightened and quite happy to share their realization of whatever. Others might have just been happy to see a camera as well? You know... one shouldn't think so black and white here.

[Starjumper]

I hope to not see this kind of bullshit on this forum any more. That is NOT the main path! It is Buddhist dogma. Do not assign your provincial view to reality, so you can say: it is the Buddhist main path if you want to be correct.

 

Try very hard to understand that some people LIKE life, they don't want to check out forever ASAP.

 

Your attachment to your dismal view is causing you suffering. Remember, Buddhists look at the dark side of life and suffer, Taoists look at both sides of life and have fun, OK?

 

 

This kind of mental dogma as posted above is like a personal religion of delusion.

 

Look in the mirror, Bozo.

 

What I said above is exactly right, study that, scholar.

 

You haven't studied much outside of your set of attached preferences, have ya?

 

Buddhism is about realizing the freedom inherent in selflessness, and freedom from unconscious rebirth. None of your view is actually what the Buddha taught, it's just what you think the Buddha taught. Two entirely different things that cannot be equated unless you take certain sentences completely out of context.

 

Studied? ROFL I don't study no frikin' books man.

 

EDIT: The Buddha also taught that enlightenment is the freedom from all shadows, or "dark sides" as you put it. This really means perspectives based on ignorance, and has nothing to do with the black and white thinking that you are expressing.

 

I know what Buddha taught and I know what you fundamentalists preach. Remember, religion is for the spiritually handicapped.

Edited July 20, 2010 by Starjumper7