New Age Bullies

[Enishi]

[Sloppy Zhang]

This is a very, very good article. I encourage everyone to read this and really think about it!

[innerspace_cadet]

I second that, it is a good article. So much of the New Age movement's ideas seem well intentioned, but have cruel consequences. If someone breaks into my house and ties me up and tortures me for hours on end, does that mean I "attracted" that into my life as per the Law of Attraction? People don't become rich by sending "positive vibrations" out into the universe, because the universe isn't an ATM machine that will just grant your desires. Rich people got that way by living below their means, investing their savings in businesses or other assets and working hard.

[DarthBane]

Very good! I think some spiritual truths are often misapplied and cause damage.

Sometimes it causes people to disassociate the outcomes of their actions, which I am sure is unintentional. However overstating things like "things happen for a reason" has shown to me to encourage sloth and lack of intention to a goal in some cases.

 

Another misused idea is that "life is meant to be experienced". This also creates bullying. I have already dealt with a few people who have caused themselves hardship and problems because they just experience life.

 

Choosing your battles and fights are a key priority in life. I think people should remember that if you dont do something that is important or makes others miserable because they see problems you are not correcting that are causing more problems: You just might realize the bad side of experiencing life.

 

Overstating negatives like everyone dies or focus on negatives only bring more negative enabling into a life. That should also be said two. But I no see that.

I believe that is a strong teaching.

 

Pink Light

[altiora]

This is a very, very good article. I encourage everyone to read this and really think about it!

 

It's spot on. A lot of New Agers like to make it out that they're "love and light" etc, but yet the reality is that quite a few are control freaks and passive aggressives.

 

They don't like any rational debate or being required to empirically validate their beliefs -- especially when it involves selling their dubious channelled knowledge.

 

Any attempt to debate is shut down by saying something to the effect that the other person is letting their ego get in the way; or just ignored and buried under a deluge of "profound material" (which is usually the same vacuous nonsense regurgitated over and over).

 

Often these same new agers have no qualms viciously attacking anyone else's beliefs, especially rival competitors.

 

New age priests and priestesses avoid those -- like myself -- who will ask questions, and usually can sniff out the weak and vulnerable who they can coerce and influence.

 

The essence of the problem is that we talk so much about rights of expression, and that everyone has his or own own path etc. That was a force of good to liberate us from priests and popes and politicians. The downside is that has resulted is that it has given rise to this "every person is his or her own Pope/Guru" mentality, which in turn has lead some to believe that they are qualified to teach others.

 

I think it's time we had a debate about when should people teach, when should they claim to have knowledge that should be imparted. There are many ethical issues surrounding this, especially involving dealings with vulnerable people.

[Stigweard]

Let's not isolate the "new agers" as if we are saying, "Yeah look at the darstedly things they are doing!"

 

Taoism also has the belief in self-determined reality in the form of what can be best called "The Law of Universal Energy Response" stating that, "Our life experience is a perfect match of our internal energy vibration." In other words, "As within so without".

 

In my mind this is Taoisms' closest equivalent to the concept of Karma. It's not necessarily good and bad deeds, its more the recognition that all actions create universal reactions that follow the same spiraling pathways as Tao. Eventually the ripples will be felt by the stimulus of those ripples.

 

Also, it is recognized that families, communities and nations also have their own unified energy "karma", so calamities on the individual level can also arise due to the individual being a integral part of a larger energy identity.

 

However, the author has an extremely important point that, to throw this into the face of someone in crisis, you can cause more harm than good however well-intentioned you might be. Learning the virtues of prudence and being sensitive to what is appropriate is central to Taoist cultivation.

 

I do not feel though that the author's use of the term "Bully" is in any way accurate. In all the examples above the "perpetrator" was either sincerely believing they were trying to help or, to use the authors own words, they were trying to be defensive and attempting to make themselves feel less vulnerable and more in control.

 

A "bully" after all is a person who is habitually cruel or overbearing, especially to smaller or weaker people. So I would say that inappropriately telling people in crisis that they are responsible for their afflictions is more an act of ignorance and insensitivity rather than the authors catch-phrase of being a "New Age Bully".

[altiora]

You say:

"I do not feel though that the author's use of the term "Bully" is in any way accurate. In all the examples above the "perpetrator" was either sincerely believing they were trying to help or, to use the authors own words, they were trying to be defensive and attempting to make themselves feel less vulnerable and more in control."

 

You've observed the very point the author is trying to make: that despite the good intentions (if we accept that they do have them), those actions can have very negative consequences on vulnerable people. And the fact they may have had "good intentions" doesn't excuse the harm that can be done. So why quibble over the term he uses, given that it may be the writer's way of making people think? To many, New Agers are harmless flowers, so the term "New Age Bully" seems an oxymoron

 

Actually, I think a bully is simply someone who coerces or intimidates another. The motive or intention of the perpetrator isn't relevant to the definition; although more often enough our experience of bullyism is people who have bad intentions.

 

The reason New Agers are being "picked on" is that (like the priests of old) so many of them think they're paragons of virtue, that everything they do is Ok so long as it's done with "good intentions". If you put yourself on a pedestal, you've got to be prepared to take the knocks.

Edited July 18, 2010 by altiora

[ralis]

There are a number of excellent examples of this kind of behavior on this forum. I don't have to mention names.

 

 

ralis

[DarthBane]

You probably know how I feel about it. Ive experienced a lot of overconfidence.

I am sure when ever religion or politics are involved, not many "underlings" have a benefit from it.

 

Overconfidence and not progressing in understanding.

[Guest paul walter]

Oh I sure can relate to this one! . I have some corker's of tales when it came to my own life threatening situation (at the hands of another) and "spiritual" peoples' response to my predicament. What I profoundly found was that the spiritual/new age consciousness for most is simply another compartmentalising of their already existing trauma, but better !! Everyone had an escape route when it came to facing some rather uncomfortable facts about the reality they were faced with and that they secretly harboured within themselves. That's all the New Age is isn't it--a place to go when you want something better but got no idea how to make it happen in asolid and reliable way? Forgive me if I offend anyone Paul

Edited July 18, 2010 by paul walter

[Birch]

If the "New Agers" bothered to train themselves in the skills required to help people (so how many would go the full 7 years it takes to train TCM in China?) then I suspect they'd be a little less "helpful" - or at least they'd know enough to know they don't know and should stay far away

 

On the topic of "as within, so without" I'm interested in it. Not because I want the universe to become like a very big Sears catalogue to exert my materialist desires upon (I have a few left )but because I'm interested in the construct of that.

 

The I ching is a good "litmus" test IMO. If you want to know what you're "putting out there." The other option is just constant mindfulness.

 

Belief systems deal with "probability" whereas reality is something else. We even have our own rules in place (cf "Society") to attempt to mediate our relationship with this something else (and, I'd add, each other). Attributing human agency to the wrong part of reality is just misleading IMO.

[Brian]

...

[DarthBane]

Hubris is such an ugly & dangerous thing.

 

Hubris is ugly.

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

I feel so sorry that all of you have attracted these new age bullies into your life.

 

The other day one stole my lunch money, and ran off saying "you can blame it on your resonant congruence with the all that is!".

 

I remember the good old days when bullies would simply give me a slap and hang me upside down until the pennies dropped out of my pocket and call me a wanker.

 

Nothing like a good old fashioned 1980's bully if you ask me.

[Enishi]

Part of the new age bully syndrome is a manifestation of american will-to-power type thinking methinks.

 

"I became president/CEO/an NFL player/banged hundreds of women, so why can't you?"

 

Willpower combined with the right feelings and thoughts can be VERY powerful but everyone has a different makeup and environment and things will happen in their own due time.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Enishi

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

 

"I became president/CEO/an NFL player/banged hundreds of women, so why can't you?"

 

 

That sounds like a good course. Link?

[Apech]

That sounds like a good course. Link?

 

Is it the NFL player idea that attracts you or something else?

[Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that]

Is it the NFL player idea that attracts you or something else?

 

You know me so well. There's not a day that passes that I don't imagine myself running around in pads so big they could protect me from an oncoming train whilst playing 'football'.

[mike1234]

I've found this mentality in a lot of groups: Christians, Taoist, Buddhists, retarded New Agers, martial artists, so-called healers...

 

I hate when someone's advice is a bunch of BS spiritual sayings, and retarded opinions. I want more facts.

 

I'm at the point where I do not want to deal with faith or belief. It either is or isn't. So, you can shoot fire bolts out of your hands? Let me see it or STFU. X philosophy, x martial arts, x method is so kick ass--- Let me see it, show me how it has changed your life and the lives of others. Oh you're a healer? Where are your references? Who can vouch for you?

 

I see people running from one set of beliefs to another--- from one modality to another.

Edited July 18, 2010 by mike1234

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

“Everything happens for a reason.” Hannah says, “I no longer believe that, nor do I believe I know anything about why the world works as it does.

 

“When people said my son died for a reason, or that he was in a better place, or worst of all, that he’d chosen to die,” said Hannah, “I was appalled and furious. It demeaned my son’s death.”

 

Not only did it demean her son’s death, it minimized her loss.

 

Hannah’s experience reminded me of a friend who underwent a severe bout of chronic fatigue. She went to see the minister of her “new thought” church, hoping to get some short-term help with shopping and housework. The minister provided less practical support: he promised to help her come to grips with the “lessons” she should learn from the illness. My friend dragged herself home and returned to her bed, feeling alone and ashamed.

 

During my 36 years as a psychotherapist, I’ve seen many clients who have been victims of people like those Hannah and my friend describe. I call them New Age Bullies — those who, sometimes with the best intentions, repeat spiritual movement shibboleths, with little understanding of how hurtful their advice can be. Some of their favorite clichés are:

 

It happened for a reason.

 

Nobody can hurt you without your consent.

 

I wonder why you created this illness (or experience).

 

It’s just your karma.

 

There are no accidents.

 

There are no victims.

 

There are no mistakes.

 

A variant of this behavior is found in the self-bullying people who blame themselves for being victims of a crime, accident, or illness and interpret such misfortunes as evidence of their personal defects or spiritual deficiencies.

 

 

 

 

I found this article annoying, mostly because it is reactive (no, I am not a "New-Ager"). The article makes some valid points, but is not "spot on", as someone said. She has an accusing, self-righteous tone in this article. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

I believe that there are lessons to be learned from life's hardships, including illness.

The new age minister above was not wrong, but his timing was off. She needed practical help right then, later, perhaps some perspective.

 

I also think that there is something wrong with the way we view disease, and often there is a taking on of an identity as a 'survivor'. Why do people continue to refer to themselves as a "_____ cancer survivor". If it were me, I would move on from that identity, and just live my life, instead of reminding strangers from here on out that you have "battled cancer" and won (for now, anyway). Why embrace that role?

 

I believe that events are neither "good" nor "bad". Some things that happened in my life I thought were "bad" have turned out to be "good", and vice-versa (but then I stopped labeling them either way). From a perspective of greater time, one can see how there is really no "good" or "bad" event. There are spiritual teaching stories that allude to this.

 

I have known some people who are fully in the role of victim, who continue to act and think in such a way that they continue to be victims over and over again, until something changes. For example, it's well-known that one's attitude and confidence affects whether or not a sociopathic individual perceives vulnerability and perpetrates a street crime on someone. I'm saying, learn how to step out of being victimized.

 

So, what did Hannah decide her son's death meant? Anything? Nothing? He committed suicide, wasn't it that he had somehow (even if mistakenly) "chosen to die"? Hannah now apparently sees the world as a chaotic, random, frightening place, where things happen for no reason. So he committed suicide for a randomly? Could it be because of her parenting? His drug addiction? his unresolved sexuality? A Romantic world view? Or did it "just happen"? I don't know, Hannah, it would make me feel worse to believe that the world is simply chaotic, cold, and random. It's up to each of us to make sense of our life experiences through philosophy, or spirituality, or religion, or psychology, or science, or a mixture of all of the above. I think the concept of Karma evolved to try and ex[lain the randomness of life.

 

But not all of life is random. You have a massive heart attack at age 53? Want to bet that your lifestyle, and your choices, and therefore your values have something to do with it? (Unless of course you have Familial Hypercholesterolemia or something related).

 

You don't have to wonder why you 'created' an illness, but you can bet there are lessons involved in living (or dying) with it.

 

So the article points something out that is valid, but overstates the case. Those people are not bullies. There are merely somewhat misguided, overzealous and perhaps insensitive. A bullies intention is to dominate and demean. I'm not sure I would call it hubris, either.

 

I don't think things "happen for a reason", but later on, with hindsight, you can see that there often was meaning derived, or values changed, or a new direction, or a re-ordering of priorities, or a slowing down, or despair that led to suicide, or despair that led to a new strength and determination, and on and on... and so, there becomes a 'reason' (looking back) that something happened.

 

The New-Agers need to practice presence and compassion, and avoid moralizing. Everyone likes to pile-on and ridicule some of the woolly beliefs and actions of New-Age people. But it seems to me their hearts are already in the right place...now let's not start bullying them!

Edited July 18, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[adept]

There are a number of excellent examples of this kind of behavior on this forum. I don't have to mention names.

 

 

ralis

 

No, we all know who they are. The fundamentalist, preaching type. :lol:

[That Guy]

Funny how I read this and then listened to a recent coast to coast am episode about Lucid Dreams/Astral Tavel and the guest said this same kinda thing and Ian Punnet called her on it slightly.

[Stigweard]

I found this article annoying, mostly because it is reactive (no, I am not a "New-Ager"). The article makes some valid points, but is not "spot on", as someone said. She has an accusing, self-righteous tone in this article. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

 

I believe that there are lessons to be learned from life's hardships, including illness.

The new age minister above was not wrong, but his timing was off. She needed practical help right then, later, perhaps some perspective.

 

I also think that there is something wrong with the way we view disease, and often there is a taking on of an identity as a 'survivor'. Why do people continue to refer to themselves as a "_____ cancer survivor". If it were me, I would move on from that identity, and just live my life, instead of reminding strangers from here on out that you have "battled cancer" and won (for now, anyway). Why embrace that role?

 

I believe that events are neither "good" nor "bad". Some things that happened in my life I thought were "bad" have turned out to be "good", and vice-versa (but then I stopped labeling them either way). From a perspective of greater time, one can see how there is really no "good" or "bad" event. There are spiritual teaching stories that allude to this.

 

I have known some people who are fully in the role of victim, who continue to act and think in such a way that they continue to be victims over and over again, until something changes. For example, it's well-known that one's attitude and confidence affects whether or not a sociopathic individual perceives vulnerability and perpetrates a street crime on someone. I'm saying, learn how to step out of being victimized.

 

So, what did Hannah decide her son's death meant? Anything? Nothing? He committed suicide, wasn't it that he had somehow (even if mistakenly) "chosen to die"? Hannah now apparently sees the world as a chaotic, random, frightening place, where things happen for no reason. So he committed suicide for a randomly? Could it be because of her parenting? His drug addiction? his unresolved sexuality? A Romantic world view? Or did it "just happen"? I don't know, Hannah, it would make me feel worse to believe that the world is simply chaotic, cold, and random. It's up to each of us to make sense of our life experiences through philosophy, or spirituality, or religion, or psychology, or science, or a mixture of all of the above. I think the concept of Karma evolved to try and ex[lain the randomness of life.

 

But not all of life is random. You have a massive heart attack at age 53? Want to bet that your lifestyle, and your choices, and therefore your values have something to do with it? (Unless of course you have Familial Hypercholesterolemia or something related).

 

You don't have to wonder why you 'created' an illness, but you can bet there are lessons involved in living (or dying) with it.

 

So the article points something out that is valid, but overstates the case. Those people are not bullies. There are merely somewhat misguided, overzealous and perhaps insensitive. A bullies intention is to dominate and demean. I'm not sure I would call it hubris, either.

 

I don't think things "happen for a reason", but later on, with hindsight, you can see that there often was meaning derived, or values changed, or a new direction, or a re-ordering of priorities, or a slowing down, or despair that led to suicide, or despair that led to a new strength and determination, and on and on... and so, there becomes a 'reason' (looking back) that something happened.

 

The New-Agers need to practice presence and compassion, and avoid moralizing. Everyone likes to pile-on and ridicule some of the woolly beliefs and actions of New-Age people. But it seems to me their hearts are already in the right place...now let's not start bullying them!

[DarthBane]

I agree. I guess in this article that was originally posted I wonder:

Why did these people NOT seek professional help or advice?

I dont hear of any of them seeking any type of professional help or advice, which is what most teachers of new age thought recommend anyway with disorders or medical conditions or emergency medical care.

 

These people should have also sought professional, licensed and qualified advice.

[Eviander]

There are New Age bullies, Taoist bullies, Buddhist bullies..and bullies in general