helping thouse who do not know much about taoism and are still young?

[mewtwo]

So I am on journic haveing vented and ranted about wan, I believe i have made my piece with him. His stuff on daoism i cant find fault with it is just the way he goes about doing it is the trouble. But I believe i can look past that to see the good he does. Anyways my question to you guys is how do you put up with so to speak the same question or the same problem over and over again? Cause one thing i stress is time, it takes time to devlope siddhis and stuff like that. I have told these people this many times but new people pop up with the same problem or question. So how does one do it?

 

Thanks

[Old Man Contradiction]

I personally don't believe in supernatural siddhis, and I hope this does not deter you from seeing value in what I say. Despite my belief, I think it would be beneficial to temporarily alter your paradigm to one of science while speaking to the student, until you feel that it would be beneficial to the student to maybe push the envelope a little.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ya gotta let this go, mewtwo, I've been telling you this for a long time!

 

All you can do is say what you are going to say. All you can do is put the offer on the table. In the end, they are going to believe who they want to believe.

 

As much as I don't agree with some of the stuff Wan says/does, he also gets people through the door. You gotta trust that they are going to make it further in and work towards something genuine.

 

As for siddhis- I believe they are possible, I believe one can attain them. Despite some of the experiences I've had, I can't absolutely say I've seen anyone/met anyone who has, and of all the people who have claimed they've had them.... well, I'll just say that I haven't met anyone willing to demonstrate them.

 

Siddhis are, have been, and probably will continue to be, a big marketing tool for both legitimate and illegitimate methods.

 

One of the things you've gotta do is be aware of the situation. Say what you gotta say. But when you sense that the conversation is becoming circular, or like you're just running on a treadmill, stop. Because by that point, it's clear that what you are saying isn't getting through to the person. So just tell them, "I've said all I could say, take it or leave it." Then walk away.

 

As for new people.... well, if you keep going through the same process with each new person, no one is going to get anywhere. Point them in the direction. Give them some key points. Say, "for more info, look at my old posts.... at this website...." etc etc.

[Sahaj Nath]

Ya gotta let this go, mewtwo, I've been telling you this for a long time!

 

...

 

 

...when you sense that the conversation is becoming circular, or like you're just running on a treadmill, stop. Because by that point, it's clear that what you are saying isn't getting through to the person. So just tell them, "I've said all I could say, take it or leave it." Then walk away.

 

 

[ShaktiMama]

So I am on journic haveing vented and ranted about wan, I believe i have made my piece with him. His stuff on daoism i cant find fault with it is just the way he goes about doing it is the trouble. But I believe i can look past that to see the good he does. Anyways my question to you guys is how do you put up with so to speak the same question or the same problem over and over again? Cause one thing i stress is time, it takes time to devlope siddhis and stuff like that. I have told these people this many times but new people pop up with the same problem or question. So how does one do it?

 

Thanks

 

I have been teaching about kundalini awakening for years. Occassionally I get the person asking me about siddhis, to teach them. They are real but they can be impermanent if you don't stop on the path and nurture and develop them. Its about showing us what we can develop in our potential to be complete human beings.

 

I had some amazing siddhis when my kundalini was opening but they were more on the psychic side: precognition, clairvoyance, telepathy, 360 degree vision. I also had some instances of super human strength and some wild energy transmission stuff. Some of them still remain but not near the super sadhu level that they were in the beginning.Siddhi development is spontaneous when the kundalini awakens. What is interesting is that it left me with the assurance that these things were possible if I wanted to go back and develop them. The interesting thing is once you advance on your path past the initial siddhi development stage it's a big, "so what. What's the big deal?" kinda thing. It's kindergarten, baby stuff. The kundalini will push people into detox and virtue development which is more important than siddhis.

 

I will not teach people who focus on acquiring siddhis. I tell them that is not the reason for the journey. They are just distractions and side show amusement parks on the way. I have seen people get stuck there and not progress. People should not bug you once you say no. Maybe you are not being firm enough. I will cut people off if they don't listen. They are more trouble than they are worth teaching in the long run. The ones that keep insisting are usually some type of energy vamp. People who keep asking will not value what you are teaching.

 

What I find in teaching my students is once the kundalini awakes they come to me to help them manage these spontaneous siddhis because they can be so disrupting to one's every day life.

 

be well,

s

[Sloppy Zhang]

I have seen people get stuck there and not progress.

 

There are lots of people, including the scientific community, that would highly disagree in saying that there is "no progress" in developing these things. In fact, if anyone could positively nail down the existence of these abilities in a scientific setting, it would go a long way in developing our understanding of 1) human potential and 2) the true nature of the universe.

 

In fact, I'd say that a big reason why people "lose faith" and don't continue on the path, is that they don't see anything, despite all their efforts.

 

Just sayin'. Enlightenment and stuff is nice and all... but so is precognition and clairvoyance. 360 degree vision would really help in driving too I bet. A lot of good could be done with this kind of stuff.

[goldisheavy]

Who is Wan? Where are all these newbies asking about siddhis? Send them over here. I want to see some of those questions.

 

As for you, mewtwo, it's simple. You need to realize it's a marathon and not a sprint. Relax. Take it easy. Say your thing, but don't have too many expectations as far as the effects of your communication go. When you get tired, take a break. Take a nap, as a small break, or do some other activity for a week, as a bigger break. Recharge your batteries and come back to try again. Like I said, marathon and not a sprint. This cake is always here waiting for you, so don't try to eat it all at once. Take a bite, rest. Digest. Relax. Then take another bite. And so on. It's simple.

[mewtwo]

http://www.youtube.com/user/yogameditation?blend=1&ob=4

 

 

here you go goldisheavy

 

Just go to journic.com

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

http://www.youtube.com/user/yogameditation?blend=1&ob=4

 

 

here you go goldisheavy

 

Just go to journic.com

 

I disliked that guy within the first 3 seconds of turning on that video. Big ego.

 

I'm also amazed at the juvenile desire for siddhis, special talents that only reinforce the ego. I can't believe that some think "enlightenment would be nice, but wouldn't it be great if i just had these powers?!"

Edited July 18, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[balance.]

...and virtue development which is more important than siddhis.

 

So overlooked.

 

I'm also amazed at the juvenile desire for siddhis, special talents that only reinforce the ego. I can't believe that some think "enlightenment would be nice, but wouldn't it be great if i just had these powers?!"

 

I feel like this is reflected in the egoic-driven gym attitude that would have you focus solely on the attainment of that cut six-pack, that laughable pair of over-sized man-mammaries and those steroid-inspired arms... A superficial, disjointed and imbalanced approach to cultivation that results only in cumbersome and rigid additions to the body that do nothing to create function, flow and unity... but boy, they sure do look great.

 

 

*sorry about the creepy picture.

Edited July 18, 2010 by balance.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I'm also amazed at the juvenile desire for siddhis, special talents that only reinforce the ego. I can't believe that some think "enlightenment would be nice, but wouldn't it be great if i just had these powers?!"

 

Er.... what's wrong with wanting siddhis?

 

Maybe I'd like to see the future so I could tell when someone is about to get killed in a car crash.....

 

Maybe I'd like the ability to heal so we could overcome incurable diseases like HIV/AIDS in a cost effective way....

 

Maybe I'd like the ability to teleport so I don't contribute to the destruction of our planet.......

 

 

Yeah, it would be great if I just had these powers. The world would be changed forever, and people would have a new and greater understanding of the human potential. So if you have a method for how to develop these, please share it. If you can already do them, please participate in a scientific study that will be submitted for peer review, and please stick around for the full process (don't just do it a couple of times then bail.... that will leave scientists with "inconclusive" results)

 

Better than sitting in a cave all day getting high off of clenching your asshole and giving yourself blue balls

 

(okay, that last sentence was a joke, I got mucho respect for the people who can go through long bouts of spiritual practice..... but a little help on the mundane would be nice too! )

 

I feel like this is reflected in the egoic-driven gym attitude that would have you focus solely on the attainment of that cut six-pack, that laughable pair of over-sized man-mammaries and those steroid-inspired arms... A superficial, disjointed and imbalanced approach to cultivation that results only in cumbersome and rigid additions to the body that do nothing to create function, flow and unity... but boy, they sure do look great.

 

Err, right, well, when you have to move a couch up to your third floor apartment, or remove a piano from a second floor room, having muscles, or having a guy who has muscle, is very helpful so.......

Edited July 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RiverSnake]

-Things often happen as they should.

 

-You cannot help others who do not want to be helped, period, end of story.

 

-Put your focus on your own cultivation. You will find enough challenges to be thrown your way.

[Sloppy Zhang]

-Things often happen as they should.

 

..... which is why we can't stop to cure HIV/AIDS with our magic healing siddhis?

 

-You cannot help others who do not want to be helped, period, end of story.

 

I'm pretty sure I could help someone who is trying to commit suicide, even if they don't want me to help them....

 

-Put your focus on your own cultivation. You will find enough challenges to be thrown your way.

 

So I should pussy out and run away from any "extra" challenges?

 

 

Have you read through the New Age Bullies thread?

[RiverSnake]

..... which is why we can't stop to cure HIV/AIDS with our magic healing siddhis?

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure I could help someone who is trying to commit suicide, even if they don't want me to help them....

 

 

 

So I should pussy out and run away from any "extra" challenges?

 

 

Have you read through the New Age Bullies thread?

 

-What i mean for "should" is the flow of life. If you let things happen they often take care of themselves, when you worry and sweat over something you're usually just wasting your time. Take the proper action you feel necessary and then let your fruit ripen.

 

-I stand by my second statement. If someones gonna commit suicide and is determined to end their life there's nothing you can do about it (short of putting them in a strait jacket) unless they have an underpinning desire for your help. I'm sure any healer will tell you something similar.

 

-And to your last statement: Everyone has there own burdens in life to bear, it is no individuals responsibility to carry other peoples issues on their shoulder, we all are leaders in our own lives, to try and be another persons trail guide without an invitation i believe is a dis-service to the individual. The best thing in my opinion any individual can do for themselves is look within for the proper guide.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Tao Apprentice

[Sahaj Nath]

..... which is why we can't stop to cure HIV/AIDS with our magic healing siddhis?

 

 

I'm pretty sure I could help someone who is trying to commit suicide, even if they don't want me to help them....

 

 

So I should pussy out and run away from any "extra" challenges?

 

you give this world too much credit. well, technically, everyone in this debate is. HIV/AIDS is not incurable, and it hasn't been incurable since the mid-90's. if you're looking for mainstream channels to confirm this, then that's just never going to happen.

 

AIDS has been cured in S. America, Burma/Myanmar, Africa, and even right here in our 'new age' community, with Karuna Reiki, fasting, qigong, all kinds of stuff. it has been cured even by heating & filtering the blood.

 

the threat is more profitable than the cure.

 

siddhis have been documented. but if James Randy is your standard of legitimacy, then you'll never get it. he's not there to discover the truth; he's there to prove wrong, and to establish our bounds of reason for us. he's the intellectual goalie who says "thus far, but no further."

 

it's like we live in a REAL Matrix, and so few people seem able to look beyond it.

 

 

seeking magical powers MOST OFTEN is immature and irritating, and i say that as a teacher. 27-year-old BOYS, who still spend a good portion of their free time playing video games or watching TV, THOSE are the ones who most often come to me seeking powers. a lot of them are younger, but some are approaching 30. and they all have their noble sales pitch. unfortunately, none of them have the fundamental MATURITY necessary to understand, process, properly contextualize, and cultivate at a high enough level to be very effective.

 

siddhis, as well as enlightenment, is simply not possible for the vast majority of the people seeking these things. not in this lifetime, anyway. but everyone is convinced that they can be that "special one," even if everything else in their life circumstances and personal decisions indicate that they are ridiculous. this is one of the reasons why i'll never have an open-door policy, at least not for the good stuff. some people just don't have it. nobody EVER wants to admit it, but it's true. it's not only true, but it's just about the most obvious thing in the world. it's kind of like how ALL young people honestly think that they will be wealthy some day, that aside from maybe the stoners at their school, everyone else can truly "make it" in some field, and we would just have an entire nation of wealthy, successful people? or the unspoken notion that EVERYONE can go to college, as if there were enough classroom seats for the entire country. people live their lives with a "checkers" mentality and think they're going to become chess masters. it just doesn't happen. it never has. and it won't.

 

it's very PC to say everyone has the same potential, but they don't. a lot of people right here on the board have maybe read a few more books, but are not much further along (if any) than they were 3 years ago. yet they still think they have it. that they'll get there. it's a fantasy. and it's a fantasy that lot's of teachers/groups cash in on.

 

 

i have cured cancer with my hands. i have mended a broken arm in 3 days, and no, it wasn't my own arm. and yesterday i dissolved a cyst in a woman's abdomen in under an hour. i can feel the presence and current state of a number of my students & friends (though not all of them) RIGHT NOW, even though they live far away and we haven't spoken in over a week. i can feel disturbances in people's bodies, sometimes just by being in the same room with them.

 

there's more, but these are at least what i'm willing to admit to, if for no other reason than the fact that i know these things are probably also true for a few others on this board. these abilities aren't terribly remarkable. could i perform them under James Randy's set-up? i doubt it. not because i doubt my abilities, but because i KNOW that my abilities are real. and if mine are real, then so must be the abilities of many others who are more disciplined and skilled than i am. and if NO ONE has beaten the challenge yet, then i simply cannot trust the challenge.

 

i don't know. this turned into a bit of a rant rather than a response. whatevers.

[Sloppy Zhang]

it's like we live in a REAL Matrix, and so few people seem able to look beyond it.

 

So where's Neo flying around kicking ass? Or wait, do agents come and stop him? Oh, but Neo can beat the agents so......

 

seeking magical powers MOST OFTEN is immature and irritating, and i say that as a teacher. 27-year-old BOYS, who still spend a good portion of their free time playing video games or watching TV, THOSE are the ones who most often come to me seeking powers. a lot of them are younger, but some are approaching 30. and they all have their noble sales pitch. unfortunately, none of them have the fundamental MATURITY necessary to understand, process, properly contextualize, and cultivate at a high enough level to be very effective.

 

siddhis, as well as enlightenment, is simply not possible for the vast majority of the people seeking these things. not in this lifetime, anyway. but everyone is convinced that they can be that "special one," even if everything else in their life circumstances and personal decisions indicate that they are ridiculous. this is one of the reasons why i'll never have an open-door policy, at least not for the good stuff. some people just don't have it. nobody EVER wants to admit it, but it's true. it's not only true, but it's just about the most obvious thing in the world. it's kind of like how ALL young people honestly think that they will be wealthy some day, that aside from maybe the stoners at their school, everyone else can truly "make it" in some field, and we would just have an entire nation of wealthy, successful people? or the unspoken notion that EVERYONE can go to college, as if there were enough classroom seats for the entire country. people live their lives with a "checkers" mentality and think they're going to become chess masters. it just doesn't happen. it never has. and it won't.

 

it's very PC to say everyone has the same potential, but they don't. a lot of people right here on the board have maybe read a few more books, but are not much further along (if any) than they were 3 years ago. yet they still think they have it. that they'll get there. it's a fantasy. and it's a fantasy that lot's of teachers/groups cash in on.

 

Right, well, even the ones who "have it" aren't doing anything with it. I tried skateboarding for a year and a half. I was outside daily (it was probably one of the few outdoor activities I really liked) practicing. I could never even figure out how to ollie (one of the most basic tricks). I didn't have it I guess.... but the people who did have it, were out doing it.

 

There's a lot of good talk about "having it" and "needing to be mature" and understanding the "right context". Okay. That's nice..... so... where is it?

 

i have cured cancer with my hands. i have mended a broken arm in 3 days, and no, it wasn't my own arm. and yesterday i dissolved a cyst in a woman's abdomen in under an hour. i can feel the presence and current state of a number of my students & friends (though not all of them) RIGHT NOW, even though they live far away and we haven't spoken in over a week. i can feel disturbances in people's bodies, sometimes just by being in the same room with them.

 

there's more, but these are at least what i'm willing to admit to, if for no other reason than the fact that i know these things are probably also true for a few others on this board. these abilities aren't terribly remarkable. could i perform them under James Randy's set-up? i doubt it. not because i doubt my abilities, but because i KNOW that my abilities are real. and if mine are real, then so must be the abilities of many others who are more disciplined and skilled than i am. and if NO ONE has beaten the challenge yet, then i simply cannot trust the challenge.

 

i don't know. this turned into a bit of a rant rather than a response. whatevers.

 

It's not just Randi, a lot of people are out there trying to find evidence of these phenomena.... and not getting very far along with it.

 

I'm a university student right now. There are people all over the place looking for things to research, looking for ways to improve on what we already know. There are lots of people at all kinds of universities that would love to see you mend a broken arm in 3 days. Heck, there are some professors out there that are given more money than they know what to do with for research, and more than willing to publish their findings.

 

I'm not out to try and discredit anyone's system, or anyone's experience. Maybe some people have it and some people don't. I don't know. But I DO know is that when claims, like the claims you've just made, are put out there..... well, they can, and I think should be, verified. Especially if you've got some HIV/AIDS cure, some cancer cure, or something else like that.

 

I dunno. It's a "put up or shut up" situation for me. I think the spiritual community is given a lot of leeway in a lot of its claims because most of the claims are unverifiable. "Be at peace with yourself", "be connected with the world". It's like.... okay, that's pretty subjective. If it makes you feel good, do it. Okay, no big deal. But "cure aids" and "mend a broken arm in 3 days"? Okay, hold on now..... this stuff is verifiable. And you (or someone else) would make a very big splash if this stuff were brought to the public.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sloppy Zhang]

-What i mean for "should" is the flow of life. If you let things happen they often take care of themselves, when you worry and sweat over something you're usually just wasting your time. Take the proper action you feel necessary and then let your fruit ripen.

 

-I stand by my second statement. If someones gonna commit suicide and is determined to end their life there's nothing you can do about it (short of putting them in a strait jacket) unless they have an underpinning desire for your help. I'm sure any healer will tell you something similar.

 

-And to your last statement: Everyone has there own burdens in life to bear, it is no individuals responsibility to carry other peoples issues on their shoulder, we all are leaders in our own lives, to try and be another persons trail guide without an invitation i believe is a dis-service to the individual. The best thing in my opinion any individual can do for themselves is look within for the proper guide.

 

All of these sound like excuses to sit back and let other people suffer. This stuff seriously sounds like it's straight out of the new age bullies thread

[Starjumper]

It's not just Randi, a lot of people are out there trying to find evidence of these phenomena.... and not getting very far along with it.

 

Randy trying, that's cute.

 

Ripoff Randy is a big scam artist. He collects millions of dollars from fundamentalist suckers to help further his "research". I spoke with a couple of his assistants and they described how they set up certain tests to PROVE that no one could see auras or sense energy. The tests were set up in a way that was most likely to make the person fail, and in order to be able to do this Randy had to know how these abilities work.

 

I read the contract. The contract states, among other things, that Randy gets to design the test. You can't just do any obvious test that would be easy to pass, he makes it up his way, to suit his purpo$e$.

 

In addition, there is always the real chance that a true master will pass a test even though it was designed with failure in mind so there are some clauses in the contract to cover this. The person being tested can't bring his own observers or recording equipment, all procedures are owned by Randy.

 

The extra special clause in the contract is that Randy gets to decide if the test was passed or not no matter what the outcome was, and you can't sue him if you don't approve of his decision.

 

So the sad thing about all this is all the people Randy rips off, not his stupid supporters, but the nice people with good intentions who want to show the that there really is some 'magic' out there. Frequently these would be people who don't know English so well, don't get the meaning of the fine print, and spend a lot of money flying to New York and paying for a hotel and meals, just to get ripped off.

 

Once a famous psychic declared they would take the Randy challenge but then backed out. They must have read the contract. Randy jumped on it and publicly scorned the psychic, implying the psychic was a fake.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Sloppy Zhang]

Ripoff Randy is a big scam artist. He collects millions of dollars from fundamentalist suckers to help further his "research". I spoke with a couple of his assistants and they described how they set up certain tests to PROVE that no one could see auras or sense energy. The tests were set up in a way that was most likely to make the person fail, and in order to be able to do this Randy had to know how these abilities work.

 

I read the contract. The contract states, among other things, that Randy gets to design the test. You can't just do any obvious test that would be easy to pass, he makes it up his way, to suit his purpo$e$.

 

In addition, there is always the real chance that a true master will pass a test even though it was designed with failure in mind so there are some clauses in the contract to cover this. The person being tested can't bring his own observers or recording equipment, all procedures are owned by Randy.

 

The extra special clause in the contract is that Randy gets to decide if the test was passed or not no matter what the outcome was, and you can't sue him if you don't approve of his decision.

 

So the sad thing about all this is all the people Randy ripped off, not his stupid supporters, but the nice people with good intentions who want to show the that there really is some 'magic' in the world. Frequently these would be people who don't know English so well, don't get the meaning of the fine print, and spend a lot of money flying to New York and paying for a hotel and meals, just to get ripped off.

 

Once a famous psychic declared they would take the Randy challenge but then backed out. They must have read the contract. Randy jumped on it and publicly scorned the psychic, implying the psychic was a fake.

 

There are a lot of problems with Randi. Anyone with some critical thinking skills and good reading comprehension can figure that out.

 

But Randi is NOT the only one out there investigating this stuff.

 

He is also NOT the first one to offer a monetary prize (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prizes_for_evidence_of_the_paranormal)

 

There are people all up and down the paranormal/spiritual/occult/metaphysical/parapsychology field, and have been for decades, and no one seems to come up with anything.........

[Starjumper]

All those prizes seem to be offered by skeptics. I wonder how they define paranormal? Is sensing and projecting energy paranormal, is moving someone with energy paranormal.

 

Let's say moving someone with energy would work. I've done it many times, with the other's eyes closed or facing away from me, but I'll bet they wouldn't let you bring someone who is sensitive or responds well to energy, they would have to supply their own blockhead who can't feel anything. Just because you can't move everybody doesn't mean you can't move anybody. How does that fit the skeptics paranormal requirements?

 

Also, I really don't care about 'proving' anything, if you want to find evidence you can find it, there are huge amounts of it. If instead you look for proof that it doesn't exist you will find that

Edited July 19, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Sloppy Zhang]

All those prizes seem to be offered by skeptics. I wonder how they define paranormal? Is sensing and projecting energy paranormal, is moving someone with energy paranormal.

 

There was an experiment someone did to test Therapeutic Touch a little while ago. She had the practitioner sit behind a screen, put their right and left hand through different slots. The tester, on the other side, would put one of their hands either over the right or the left hand of the therapeutic touch practitioner's, and ask which hand it was over (because the therapeutic touch people claimed they could sense the energy field of humans).

 

Sufficed to say, they didn't score very well.

 

[quote[Also, I really don't care about 'proving' anything, if you want to find evidence you can find it, there are huge amounts of it. If instead you look for proof that it doesn't exist you will find that

 

Yes, the "huge amounts of evidence" out there have really convinced us that this stuff exists, because it's common knowledge!

[RiverSnake]

All of these sound like excuses to sit back and let other people suffer. This stuff seriously sounds like it's straight out of the new age bullies thread

 

-When people are being attacked they call out for help or call 911.

 

-When people are depressed they go to a psychologist or go talk to a good friend.

 

-When people want to know about Taoism they can read a book.

 

-When people want to learn Chi Kung they find a teacher.

 

-When people are hungry they make a nice meal for themselves or go find some food.

 

-When people need money they find a job.

 

-When people are sick they find a doctor or a healer.

 

 

It's not the other way around, the meal doesn't make itself nor does the teacher ask the student. Seek and you shall find, not find and you shall seek. People are very capable when motivation comes from within.

 

-When you give people advice they didn't ask for it's a waste of time, don't make a meal for someone when their not hungry.

[Sloppy Zhang]

-When people are being attacked they call out for help or call 911.

 

-When people are depressed they go to a psychologist or go talk to a good friend.

 

-When people want to know about Taoism they can read a book.

 

-When people want to learn Chi Kung they find a teacher.

 

-When people are hungry they make a nice meal for themselves or go find some food.

 

-When people need money they find a job.

 

-When people are sick they find a doctor or a healer.

 

Most of these involve people who decide to help people.......

 

The reason these outlets exist is because someone decided they weren't just going to sit back their whole lives, and instead decided to do something...

Edited July 19, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Sahaj Nath]

So where's Neo flying around kicking ass? Or wait, do agents come and stop him? Oh, but Neo can beat the agents so......

 

 

 

Right, well, even the ones who "have it" aren't doing anything with it. I tried skateboarding for a year and a half. I was outside daily (it was probably one of the few outdoor activities I really liked) practicing. I could never even figure out how to ollie (one of the most basic tricks). I didn't have it I guess.... but the people who did have it, were out doing it.

 

There's a lot of good talk about "having it" and "needing to be mature" and understanding the "right context". Okay. That's nice..... so... where is it?

 

 

 

It's not just Randi, a lot of people are out there trying to find evidence of these phenomena.... and not getting very far along with it.

 

I'm a university student right now. There are people all over the place looking for things to research, looking for ways to improve on what we already know. There are lots of people at all kinds of universities that would love to see you mend a broken arm in 3 days. Heck, there are some professors out there that are given more money than they know what to do with for research, and more than willing to publish their findings.

 

I'm not out to try and discredit anyone's system, or anyone's experience. Maybe some people have it and some people don't. I don't know. But I DO know is that when claims, like the claims you've just made, are put out there..... well, they can, and I think should be, verified. Especially if you've got some HIV/AIDS cure, some cancer cure, or something else like that.

 

I dunno. It's a "put up or shut up" situation for me. I think the spiritual community is given a lot of leeway in a lot of its claims because most of the claims are unverifiable. "Be at peace with yourself", "be connected with the world". It's like.... okay, that's pretty subjective. If it makes you feel good, do it. Okay, no big deal. But "cure aids" and "mend a broken arm in 3 days"? Okay, hold on now..... this stuff is verifiable. And you (or someone else) would make a very big splash if this stuff were brought to the public.

 

Dude, what are you talking about? you say "where are they?" i say, "we are right here, DOING the work," as my life is now dedicated to it, and then you say "put up or shut up," to which i reply, "i'm putting up on a DAILY basis," and you just don't buy that. well, you don't have to.

 

we are RIGHT HERE, hiding in plain sight, i guess.

 

where the heck have you been looking? the Mayo Clinic has been busting their asses researching qi energy and its curative effects on cancer. there are over 1,500 CONCLUSIVE studies that have been documented now, so again, WHERE THE HECK ARE YOU LOOKING?

 

i know this link has been posted in the past, but have you looked through the Qigong Institute's database?

 

http://www.qigonginstitute.org/html/scientificbasis.php

 

there's plenty of research to look up lots of different places. it was a Harvard study that verified the phenomenon of Tummo by studying a couple of tibetan monks. you can probably find that one on YOUTUBE. i mean, it's out there. lots of stuff is out there. you just seem to believe that, if it's really out there, then these things would become ubiquitous in the culture so everyone can benefit. but that's just not the reality.

 

and i'll say this. straight-up.

 

if you have professors at your school who have the funding to conduct a trial, and if they are willing to fly me out and accommodate me to participate in a few studies, i'll be there.

 

so there. i've said it here in open forum. now, can YOU put up or shut up? cause i'm willing to be tested, kill viruses in petri dishes, affect stuff in other rooms, whatever. i won't submit under James Randy-style parameters, but i'm happy to participate in a mutual exploration of energy medicine.

 

it's all been done already, but i'll do it again. and i'm not just saying this. PM me if you're serious.

Edited July 19, 2010 by Hundun

[Sloppy Zhang]

Dude, what are you talking about? you say "where are they?" i say, "we are right here, DOING the work," as my life is now dedicated to it, and then you say "put up or shut up," to which i reply, "i'm putting up on a DAILY basis," and you just don't buy that. well, you don't have to.

 

we are RIGHT HERE, hiding in plain sight, i guess.

 

Okay? Chillax man

 

I don't know who you are, if you have some school or clinic, or what you do/how you teach. If you've advertised before, sorry I missed it. There are a lot of people who have "dedicated their lives" to doing stuff every day. That doesn't necessarily legitimize their work, though.

 

if it's really out there, then these things would become ubiquitous in the culture so everyone can benefit. but that's just not the reality.

 

I remember as a kid there was some study that showed that covering your mouth with your shoulder/upper arm when you cough is better than covering with your hand. So there was a lot of work done trying to promote this (I was in elementary school at the time, so I remember all the teachers going on and on about it).

 

There are still a lot of people I see who cover their mouth with their hands when they cough..... but if you look at any resources for how to prevent the spread of germs (which came out a lot in the past year), they all mention how you SHOULDN'T cover your mouth with your hands.

 

And then scientists discovered this new microscopic sea life living in the ice of antarctica, where scientists thought life like that couldn't live in those conditions... but it was. I mean.... who the fuck cares? But it was all over the news a couple of months ago

 

So..... I dunno. Maybe there's some government conspiracy that's trying to hide AIDS cures and the discovery of qi and telekinetic abilities. But..... from what I've seen, really helpful stuff gets spread really fast, and even pointless stuff gets its 15 second nod on the evening news.

 

and i'll say this. straight-up.

 

if you have professors at your school who have the funding to conduct a trial, and if they are willing to fly me out and accommodate me to participate in a few studies, i'll be there.

 

And I'll say this straight up:

 

Why does everyone with a claim expect the world to cater to them even though they've shown no proof of anything?

 

I hardly have the cash to fly MYSELF out to places, let alone fly and ACCOMMODATE some random person from the internet (okay, you aren't really random ) just because he claims to be able to do some amazing stuff. Yeah. Anyone can make claims.

 

The burden of proof is on the person making the claims. I don't understand why everyone is so unwilling to demonstrate their skills unless they are given a royal treatment, even though they haven't really done anything (not to diminish what you do every day...)

 

Because, look, there are quacks all over the place doing stupid things, saying they can heal people, charging thousands of dollars for these bogus treatments, and then being all like, "yeah I've dedicated my life to this, I wouldn't have done it if it didn't work!" Okay.... right.

 

so there. i've said it here in open forum. now, can YOU put up or shut up? cause i'm willing to be tested, kill viruses in petri dishes, affect stuff in other rooms, whatever. i won't submit under James Randy-style parameters, but i'm happy to participate in a mutual exploration of energy medicine.

 

it's all been done already, but i'll do it again. and i'm not just saying this. PM me if you're serious.

 

Well it's cool that you've posted some links!

 

Once I get back to university in the fall, I'll start asking around and see who's willing to do any experiments or tests with this kind of stuff. And I'll see what I can do about your travel and accommodations. Just don't get your hopes up too high!