What would you give up to live without oil?

[thelerner]

Left hand reply:

 

Not only would I not give up anything, I'd want a $250,000 in recompense to live without oil. Next to air, water and electricity its the greatest thing in the world. It runs my transportation, grows and transports my food. Its everywhere, I use it directly or indirectly 1,000 times a day.

 

I'd want big bucks to do without it. Perhaps a collection could be made...

 

 

Michael

<sniffing butt, I am a Prius owner>

[DarthBane]

Left hand reply:

 

Not only would I not give up anything, I'd want a $250,000 in recompense to live without oil. Next to air, water and electricity its the greatest thing in the world. It runs my transportation, grows and transports my food. Its everywhere, I use it directly or indirectly 1,000 times a day.

 

I'd want big bucks to do without it. Perhaps a collection could be made...

 

 

Michael

<sniffing butt, I am a Prius owner>

 

Even if I could help you set up some off-grade solar panels from the aeronautical industry?

 

My point, and trying to stay on topic but I could really do without most major conveniences. I think running water is something that I might not be able to deal with. Just give me a huge reverse osmosis machine and I would be fine. In fact I could share it with others if they help maintain it and treat it right.

 

Being serious now, I would like to apologize for my bit of humor earlier that unintentionally brought my posts off-topic.

 

Pink Light

[Old Man Contradiction]

Wait, no, I need oil. Just give me a few more years. I have so many books I want to collect, dog training tools I want to buy, languages I want to learn, and places I want to travel. All of which require oil to take part in my life. Also, I really like citrus and tropical fruits, which we can't get here in the northwest without the use of oil. But once I have and have done all of these things, and have a decent yet modest sized property, I will be willing to give up all oil...

[de_paradise]

Wait, no, I need oil. Just give me a few more years. I have so many books I want to collect, dog training tools I want to buy, languages I want to learn, and places I want to travel. All of which require oil to take part in my life. Also, I really like citrus and tropical fruits, which we can't get here in the northwest without the use of oil. But once I have and have done all of these things, and have a decent yet modest sized property, I will be willing to give up all oil...

 

But do you agree with stealing these opportunities from future generations? say because your 13 year bloated from overeating hormone-injected meat wants to drive to the mall so she can buy some new cosmetic that promises to make her feel less ugly, or so the geractric crowd can drive through the country in some gas-guzzling bizarre movable house, or so China Overseas Shipping Company can keep its massive fleet shipping over crap to Walmart, junk almost designed to create social waste.

[Old Man Contradiction]

But do you agree with stealing these opportunities from future generations? say because your 13 year bloated from overeating hormone-injected meat wants to drive to the mall so she can buy some new cosmetic that promises to make her feel less ugly, or so the geractric crowd can drive through the country in some gas-guzzling bizarre movable house, or so China Overseas Shipping Company can keep its massive fleet shipping over crap to Walmart, junk almost designed to create social waste.

 

I do not agree with stealing any opportunity from anybody, given exceptions of murder etc...

 

Polyglotism, books, dog training, etc... would all contribute to future life without oil. McDonalds and Wal-Mart, a little less so.

 

What I want is information. If an oil crisis occurs, I will have been extremely satisfied that I learned everything I could. I would teach what I could. On the global scale, that will have been the contribution of the Information Age.

[thelerner]

But do you agree with stealing these opportunities from future generations? say because your 13 year bloated from overeating hormone-injected meat wants to drive to the mall so she can buy some new cosmetic that promises to make her feel less ugly, or so the geractric crowd can drive through the country in some gas-guzzling bizarre movable house, or so China Overseas Shipping Company can keep its massive fleet shipping over crap to Walmart, junk almost designed to create social waste.

I don't agree with your premise.

 

Are you so sure that living a conventional Western life style will lead to ruination of the future? Frankly my 13 y.o is a veggie and doesn't care for the mall. But if they did would that spell such a dark future. Really, for sure? How much of a Luddite existence do you want to subject others to?

 

Perhaps some sort of cultural revolution should be done. You could look up Mao and see how well his went.

 

On the third hand, change is neccessary and is coming. We're moving away from McMansions into manageable houses. Cars are finally getting better mileage, Hummers and there oversize brethren are considered ridiculous.

 

I don't think its ecologic preaching thats responsible. Its good old fashion economics 101, supply and demand. There is intelligence that comes from market forces. As things get scarce we do without or find better substitutes.

 

As oil goes up, society will change. In the meantime with relatively cheap oil I say party on!!

 

 

Michael

 

 

P.S. DB, as you'll notice, you don't solar panels, I don't, nor do my neighbors, even the composty gardening ones. They're just not ready for prime time yet, not here in the Midwest. I hope that changes. But right now its not.

[Taomeow]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rrimf0863m4

[de_paradise]

Interesting points. But yes, conventional Western style life as it is now is ruinous to the planet, market forces cannot stop actors from exploiting resources to depletion, it only seems to accelerate them. Example one: oil. Example two: fish.

 

Luddite is the wrong arguement. What I want is to use our present technology to the fullest, but that requires a shift in ethics to see that the earth is our love not our whore. Not the Amish lifestyle, but for example, we now have e-readers with e-ink that is just as easy on the eyes as printed material, so we dont even need to savage trees to make newspapers, mags, or books. But we do, because ethics are not there.

 

A mainstream Chinese economist has come out and said look, we cannot use American lifestyle as a model, because there simply isnt enough resources for it. It has to be a model with less consumption. And in my opinion, China will be the leaders and pioneers for the next century in lifestyle, and they are already market leaders in solar panels. They produce solar panels at half the cost of just 2 years ago. http://noir.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=a8AhlEJaeSE0

 

So, your, on the third hand, change is coming. But its not just market forces dictating the change--that is what people tell themselves, but it ignores the values that make up the desires themselves.

[yugenphoenix]

I'd rather be a turtle dragging my tail in the mud.