Buddhism refutes certain attachments

[3bob]

"The Vajrachedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra advises:

You should not be attached to things as being possessed of, or devoid of, intrinsic qualities.

 

This is the reason why the Tathāgata always teaches this saying: My teaching of the Dharma is to be likened unto a raft. Even the teaching of the Buddha must be relinquished; how much more so non-Dharma.

 

Therefore, The Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra warns that we should not attach to even the sermon that Buddha himself preached as the Absolute Truth. In Buddhism, it is said that obsession with Dharma is one of the sufferings that should be discarded along with obsession with oneself. If it is believed that truth has substance, this idea can cause obsession with one's own creed, resulting in conflicts of hatred and contradiction. The Majjhima nikāya also emphasizes that the scriptural words are functional tools:

 

Does a man who has safely crossed a flood upon a raft continue his journey carrying that raft upon his head? So long as the mind is attached even to Buddha's teaching, as a basis, it will cherish the idea of 'I' and 'other'.

(The Majjhima nikāya I-134, SBE 5: PTS, 1894)."

 

(all quoted)

Edited July 25, 2010 by 3bob

[Marblehead]

Thanks for that.

 

This is exactly why I speak against dogmatically following any teaching. No matter what it is, if we are grasping, we are grasping.

 

Now, I suggest that nearly all of us will have attachments of one form or another. This helps the process of self-actualization, I think. But to hold to these attactments as if they were a part of us is not so good, I think.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

Thanks for that.

 

This is exactly why I speak against dogmatically following any teaching. No matter what it is, if we are grasping, we are grasping.

 

Now, I suggest that nearly all of us will have attachments of one form or another. This helps the process of self-actualization, I think. But to hold to these attactments as if they were a part of us is not so good, I think.

 

Peace & Love!

 

You are welcome. And also yes,

 

For instance another saying I have always liked is about the beautiful lotus flower growing out and up from of the dark muck, or its 'attachment' to same...

[Marblehead]

You are welcome. And also yes,

 

For instance another saying I have always liked is about the beautiful lotus flower growing out and up from of the dark muck, or its 'attachment' to same...

 

I vaguely remember that but I will share my take on it.

 

The flower does rise above the muck but the roots of the plant remain firm in its base of darkness and muck. So, even though the flower must go out and up in order to shine it does remain attached to its roots and therefore to its source.

 

Peace & Love!

[Lucky7Strikes]

[3bob]

And this is an attachment just the same!

 

hehe

 

(hopefully less than the 2 other attachments)

Edited July 24, 2010 by 3bob

[JustARandomPanda]

Thank you 3Bob for this sutra. It's so delightful to see correspondence's between Buddhism and Taoism. I'm pretty sure similar insights are available in other traditions with similar practices. I find myself attracted to both Zen and Taoism as they both seem to emphasize living simply and just going with the flow of things.

 

It was with Zen Buddhism's anapata (sp?) breath meditation that I'm finally beginning to gain some success at quieting my monkey-mind. The more it quiets down the more delighted I am to find that a quiet mind is it's own reward. I never would've believed until i actually did it just how much sheer relief floods my body and my emotions when my mind stills. I've even felt my body respond by muscles I didn't even know where tense begin to relax - all the little stabilizer muscles that regular exercise doesn't really target well just being to relax. It's amazing seeing and feeling graphically just how tied our mental states are to our bodies.

 

 

It's saddened me to see so many people at Tao Bums turned off from Buddhism when it really has quite a lot to offer and so much of it fits in harmoniously with Taoism. They may or may not lead to the same ultimate insights but speaking just for me I don't care about that. The practices of each - Buddhism and Taoism - are their own reward.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

And this is an attachment just the same!

 

Not necessarily.

[Marblehead]

And this is an attachment just the same!

 

Hehehe. You leave my attachments alone, Okay?

 

I am attached to life. I don't see where this could be a bad thing. (As long as I am not hopelessly clinging.)

 

Where's that story about the Sage, the tigers and the strawberry?

 

Peace & Love!

[lino]

The Vajrachedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra advises:

You should not be attached to things as being possessed of, or devoid of, intrinsic qualities.

 

This is the reason why the Tathāgata always teaches this saying: My teaching of the Dharma is to be likened unto a raft. Even the teaching of the Buddha must be relinquished; how much more so non-Dharma.

 

Therefore, The Vajracchedikā Prajñāpāramitā sūtra warns that we should not attach to even the sermon that Buddha himself preached as the Absolute Truth. In Buddhism, it is said that obsession with Dharma is one of the sufferings that should be discarded along with obsession with oneself. If it is believed that truth has substance, this idea can cause obsession with one's own creed, resulting in conflicts of hatred and contradiction. The Majjhima nikāya also emphasizes that the scriptural words are functional tools:

 

Does a man who has safely crossed a flood upon a raft continue his journey carrying that raft upon his head? So long as the mind is attached even to Buddha's teaching, as a basis, it will cherish the idea of 'I' and 'other'.

(The Majjhima nikāya I-134, SBE 5: PTS, 1894).

 

They are trying to cover up the fact that your shit got stolen.

 

It is in doubt to me if the Order of Sariputra actually authorized

Theravada since the Order of Sariputra is named so infrequently in

the Pali Canons.

Edited July 25, 2010 by lino

[Owledge]

[Tao99]

.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[Owledge]

What relevance do the two attributes

- well known

- in the scriptures

have in regards to my comments?

[3bob]

As a sidenote (not talking about the intended message): Using metaphors where none are really necessary to convey a message can be a function of the ego boasting with its creative capüacity.

In this case, the metaphor is not a good one: The raft on your head can block the hot sun. You can sell the raft or make other useful things out of it. OR there might be another, not-yet-seen flooded area ahead with no means to cross it available.

I don't see how leaving the raft behind is superior to keeping it.

And where did that raft come from in the first place anyway?

 

Oops, 3bob didn't say it, he quoted it. (and forgot the quotation marks earlier)

 

Anyway, another example along such lines: if you are swimming in an unlimited Ocean of drinking water would you also pack or tow around a separate ten gallon jug of same for drinking? (and to what purpose?)

Edited July 25, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

The tyranny of the shoulds!

 

I'm grooving with the last two lines, 3bob.

 

Thanks for sharing, SereneBlue. Good to hear you're benefiting from your meditation practice. It's your reward for simply DOing. Cool, huh?

 

Two thumbs up Rainbow Vein,

[Owledge]

Oops, 3bob didn't say it, he quoted it. (and forgot the quotation marks earlier)

 

Anyway, another example along such lines: if you are swimming in an unlimited Ocean of drinking water would you also pack or tow around a separate ten gallon jug of same for drinking? (and to what purpose?)

An unlimited ocean of drinking water is phantastical, not based on our world's reality. Under such conditions, everything could happen to it.

If you feel brave, you could still empty the jug and use it as a floation-device. Makes swimming easier, especially after an hour or so.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Hardyg

[3bob]

Thank you 3Bob for this sutra. It's so delightful to see correspondence's between Buddhism and Taoism. I'm pretty sure similar insights are available in other traditions with similar practices. I find myself attracted to both Zen and Taoism as they both seem to emphasize living simply and just going with the flow of things.

 

It was with Zen Buddhism's anapata (sp?) breath meditation that I'm finally beginning to gain some success at quieting my monkey-mind. The more it quiets down the more delighted I am to find that a quiet mind is it's own reward. I never would've believed until i actually did it just how much sheer relief floods my body and my emotions when my mind stills. I've even felt my body respond by muscles I didn't even know where tense begin to relax - all the little stabilizer muscles that regular exercise doesn't really target well just being to relax. It's amazing seeing and feeling graphically just how tied our mental states are to our bodies.

 

It's saddened me to see so many people at Tao Bums turned off from Buddhism when it really has quite a lot to offer and so much of it fits in harmoniously with Taoism. They may or may not lead to the same ultimate insights but speaking just for me I don't care about that. The practices of each - Buddhism and Taoism - are their own reward.

 

Thank you also Serene Blue, you have shared a great post of fine feelings and insights!

 

Bob

[lino]

Hehehe. You leave my attachments alone, Okay?

 

I am attached to life. I don't see where this could be a bad thing. (As long as I am not hopelessly clinging.)

 

Me too

[Marblehead]

BTW

 

Here is one version of the strawberry story.

 

 

A man walking across a field encounters a tiger. He fled, the tiger chasing after him. Coming to a cliff, he caught hold of a wild vine and swung himself over the edge. The tiger sniffed at him from above. Terrified, the man looked down to where, far below, another tiger had come, waiting to eat him. Two mice, one white and one black, little by little began to gnaw away at the vine. The man saw a luscious strawberry near him. Grasping the vine in one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other. How sweet it tasted!

 

In other words, we continue to live naturally no matter what our problems are at the moment.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

In other words, we continue to live naturally no matter what our problems are at the moment.

Why? Because of a highly unrealistic story? Or did you want to say "We SHOULD continue to live naturally..."?

[Marblehead]

Why? Because of a highly unrealistic story? Or did you want to say "We SHOULD continue to live naturally..."?

 

No, I said what I meant. I was speaking for myself.

 

Now, if you asked me for advise I would say that you 'should' continue to live naturally ...

 

I really don't think it was all that unrealistic a story. Many people have died in extremely unlikely situations. When there is no where else to turn we simply accept our fate and do whatever we can with the few seconds or moments we have left. Eating a fresh, ripe strawberry is a very natural event. How tasty!

 

Better to go in pleasure than in pain and fear.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

I would have offered the strawberry to the mice.

[C T]

I would have offered the strawberry to the mice.

(that's because, and only because you are twisted and owledgeable.. )

 

Seriously though, that sounds very big-hearted and noble, unless of course your aim was a last-ditch attempt to placate the mice in the hope that they would be distracted enough to leave the rope-chewing in favor of the strawberry? To buy more time perhaps? Aah the joys of a few extra moments of being alive! Yet when there is ample life the yearning always seems to be on something other than the simple act of joyful living...

 

 

Another story on attachment:

 

It was a mid-summer's day.

 

There is this boy, hardly sixteen, working in the rice fields of Burma.

 

Feeling parched with thirst, he heads for the drinking bucket at the end of the field. Opening the lid, he finds an ant on the inner edge of the bucket, probably there to get a respite from the heat as well. Feeling invaded, the lad picked up the ant and without a moment's hesitation squished it, as though thinking, "How dare you, a worthless and lowly creature, invade this space reserved for thirsty folks like me!" (the writer then suggests this is a demo scenario and no ants were killed in the writing of this - but it was also aimed at suggesting how attachments are formed wherein the attachment was purely a mental projection and nothing else, for the water was not harmed nor destroyed by the ant's presence there).

 

Next scene.

The boy's sister was also working the same field at the same time. Shortly after the brother had his fill of ant-free water, she too decided to have a drink of water and headed to the same spot where the bucket was placed. Lifting the lid, she saw another ant also seeking shelter within the cool confines of the bucket. She thought to herself amusingly, "Oh its such a hot day indeed, even the ants are seeking the cooler sanctum of this watering hole". But it does not belong here, she mused, for this is a 'human' facility, and proceeded to lift out the ant and flicked it away in the direction of the ground, and the little ant quickly scampered away, looking for the next shelter from the heat. If it had any feelings, it would probably be quite annoyed at being denied the pleasures of the cool environment it found itself just a few moments ago.

 

Another scene.

After a while, It was the uncle's turn to head for a drink of water. Same thing happened when he lifted up the lid - yet another ant was found inside, only this one had fallen into the water and had forgotten its surfboard... This was the first thought that crossed the man's mind when he saw the ant there. He smiled. Without a moment's hesitation, he lifted the ant with his finger, walked with it to the nearby hut where lunch was being prepared, picked up some sugar granules and sprinkled them on a shaded area of ground by the side of the hut and left the ant to delight itself with the sweet treat! Watched the ant 'enjoying' the sugar for a short while, and then went away back to have a drink of water for himself.

 

Human nature, expressed in 3 different ways. One was attached strongly to what was 'mine'. The next one was detached, nonchalant and indifferent, and the third was spontaneous kindness, achieved thru non-attachment to the perception of what was and was not 'his'. Evolution of conscious awareness.

 

Before attachments to things can be formed, first of all come attachments to perceptions of things and the division of what is 'mine' and what is 'theirs'.

 

 

 

(Story courtesy of Leo Buscaglia, an English professor who founded the 'Love Class' at the University of S. California.)

Here he is, relating a short poem called "Only you can make a difference..." :

[Marblehead]

I would have offered the strawberry to the mice.

 

But you still would have been stuck between the tiger above and the tiger below. Would you be able to hold to the vine longer than the tigers could just sit and wait for you? Screw the tigers and the mice. I am going to eat the strawberry.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

 

Another story on attachment:

 

It was a mid-summer's day.

 

Nice story. Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!