what the *** am i?

[Birch]

"I was just feeling spunky."

 

- Awesome!

[Owledge]

"This is what even some great philosophers do. They state their very personal experiences as true/valid and that then becomes their philosophy. (In some cases of use of the word "philosophy", it is little more than opinion in a fancy dress.)"

 

- THIS!

 

In addition, "what you are" is something incredible, amazing even. But I digress.

Do you like canyons? ... Because the meaning of this posting is flying under my radar. Sorry. Please explain.

[Marblehead]

Do you like canyons? ... Because the meaning of this posting is flying under my radar. Sorry. Please explain.

 

Hehehe. I hope she doesn't because that would spoil half the fun.

 

Peace & Love!

[Birch]

Ok, then I won't

[Owledge]

Hehehe. I hope she doesn't because that would spoil half the fun.

But I could enjoy the other half twice as much instead.

[Marblehead]

But I could enjoy the other half twice as much instead.

 

Hehehe. Well, here's the real deal. I was feeling spunky and read Kate's word "digress" as "undress". I knew that Kate knows how to play so I posted. She played oh! so much better than I ever expected.

 

The whole thing was nothing, silly, really, but we had fun.

 

It is good for our life to let the child out to play now and then.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

You must be trapped in a time-causality-messup-anomaly or something, because I asked what Kate meant after she quoted me, not what you meant.

 

Speaking of messups, this reminds me of that one time where someone in another forum posted: 'OK, my question has been answered, no need to argue further, this thread can be closed.', and then another person responded: 'Are you crazy?! This is MY thread! How can you ask it to be closed when my question hasn't been answered yet?!'.

[Marblehead]

You must be trapped in a time-causality-messup-anomaly or something, because I asked what Kate meant after she quoted me, not what you meant.

 

Speaking of messups, this reminds me of that one time where someone in another forum posted: 'OK, my question has been answered, no need to argue further, this thread can be closed.', and then another person responded: 'Are you crazy?! This is MY thread! How can you ask it to be closed when my question hasn't been answered yet?!'.

 

Hehehe. Well, I guess if Kate reads this she will get back to you.

 

Yeah, sometime we concentrate so much on ourselfs that we forget that we are actually supposed to be talking WITH other people.

 

Peace & Love!

[Birch]

And as would have. I give my personal opinion (cough cough "philosophy") in answer to the "what we are" question on an entirely different thread. So I guess I've caused a space/time issue as well

 

However, to sum it up. We're not what we think we are to begin with. The "what we are" question isn't one I can answer for the moment due to present phase of progress but I guess that's the point of practice?

[Owledge]

Ah, OK, you were referring to the thread title. Wasn't totally obvious to me.

[Marblehead]

Ah! Space/time issues. What am I? Does it really matter at any given point in space/time since we are constantly changing and what we define ourself as at any given moment is only valid for that moment that the thought was had because after the thought we have again changed so even the thought is no longer valid.

 

Change is continuous so all definitions are invalid. Luckily though that some changes are so slow that they are not significant for longer period of time.

 

Peace & Love!

[Brian]

...

[Marblehead]

I am not what I think I am, nor what you think I am. What I am now is different than what I was yeterday or what I will be tomorrow and, at each time, my understanding of "what I am" will be wrong, or at least incomplete.

 

YHWH said "ehyeh" and Popeye said "I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." Close enough for me so I'll go with it!

 

BTW (and off-topic), I think Descartes must have been dyslexic or something -- "I am therefore I think" rings true to me...

 

Nice. And so true. Similar to "The same water never flows under the bridge more than once."

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

Nice. And so true. Similar to "The same water never flows under the bridge more than once."

Actually only a matter of time before it does, since this planet is a closed system in regards to water.

Metaphors are tricky.

[Sunya]

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

[3bob]

You are more than the sun, you are more than all the galaxies combined, you are more than the "big bang"

and you are so tiny that there is no measure that can measure you; thus there is nothing including life or death that can hold back or take away your joy and freedom.

 

Om

[C T]

You are more than the sun, you are more than all the galaxies combined, you are more than the "big bang"

and you are so tiny that there is no measure that can measure you; thus there is nothing including life or death that can hold back or take away your joy and freedom.

 

Om

Hi Bob,

 

Any room there to perhaps consider that joy and freedom is only relative to one's own measure of despair and entanglement?

 

We have already found out that the hand of Nature is impersonal, and in all likelihood It bestows neither help nor harm. Its the romantic folly of the nature of Man to dream of exalted states of emancipation from whatever it is It thinks It is corralled in, attempting in vain to lift one's own legs out of the mud, when, funnily enough, there is no mud there to begin with.

 

Chop wood, carry water.

 

Some are more concerned with the quantity and quality of the forest, acquiring the latest wood-cutting equipment, and debating the purity of the water source. Much like one who attempts to shoot the moon down with a bow and arrows... never gets the mark, but effortful practice nonetheless. Its as if the modes of 'being' becomes the main, albeit mistaken focus, instead of simply resting in the beingness of being.

 

Upon exhausting himself after much hard work, he may then begin to consider truly letting go and surrendering to the impartial flow of Nature. Usually this realization comes only after 40 to 50 years of fruitless attempts. By that time, much of the resistance would have worn off, but the way of Nature would have also ensured that one's zeal would also be equally diminished. Of what use is realization then?

 

 

 

Better to understand now -

 

do not strive too hard for what is ultimately elusive,

 

let go,

 

rest.

 

Abide in the resting.

 

All things unfold with or without Man's vain-glorious attempts at manipulating the outcomes of things. Of course, Nature would much prefer if Man would cease interfering...

 

(do you still think unenlightened Man is still as wonderfully endowed as we all want to believe we are? I sometimes truly want to believe that humanity is fundamentally good, but that would be the ultimate delusion. So is the opposite assumption, btw.)

 

Happy weekend folks!

Edited August 6, 2010 by CowTao

[3bob]

Hi Bob,

 

Any room there to perhaps consider that joy and freedom is only relative to one's own measure of despair and entanglement?

 

We have already found out that the hand of Nature is impersonal, and in all likelihood It bestows neither help nor harm. Its the romantic folly of the nature of Man to dream of exalted states of emancipation from whatever it is It thinks It is corralled in, attempting in vain to lift one's own legs out of the mud, when, funnily enough, there is no mud there to begin with.

 

Chop wood, carry water.

 

Some are more concerned with the quantity and quality of the forest, acquiring the latest wood-cutting equipment, and debating the purity of the water source. Much like one who attempts to shoot the moon down with a bow and arrows... never gets the mark, but effortful practice nonetheless. Its as if the modes of 'being' becomes the main, albeit mistaken focus, instead of simply resting in the beingness of being.

 

Upon exhausting himself after much hard work, he may then begin to consider truly letting go and surrendering to the impartial flow of Nature. Usually this realization comes only after 40 to 50 years of fruitless attempts. By that time, much of the resistance would have worn off, but the way of Nature would have also ensured that one's zeal would also be equally diminished. Of what use is realization then?

 

 

 

Better to understand now -

 

do not strive too hard for what is ultimately elusive,

 

let go,

 

rest.

 

Abide in the resting.

 

All things unfold with or without Man's vain-glorious attempts at manipulating the outcomes of things. Of course, Nature would much prefer if Man would cease interfering...

 

(do you still think unenlightened Man is still as wonderfully endowed as we all want to believe we are? I sometimes truly want to believe that humanity is fundamentally good, but that would be the ultimate delusion. So is the opposite assumption, btw.)

 

Happy weekend folks!

 

hmm, "chop wood and carry water..." that is a good saying, but to me it sounds like you are beating around the bush and spilling the water?

 

The joy and freedom mentioned is not measureable by man or even gods, that is the fundamental "mystery" that is simply right under our noses Gentleman CowTao, regardless of how complex, far-away or "ultimately elusive" mankind may assume or make such out to be. To overcome our entrapments in manipulated doubts is to (edit) come to know such beyond the regular knowing of mankind even if in a form of mankind.

 

Om

Edited August 6, 2010 by 3bob

[Owledge]

Chop wood and carry water and don't post on The Tao Bums...

 

...not my thing.

[Marblehead]

Actually only a matter of time before it does, since this planet is a closed system in regards to water.

Metaphors are tricky.

 

Nope. Not the same water. Sure, the same raindrop but never in the same configuration.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile.

 

 

Don't y'all believe that. I am on a pile of rose pedals that gets renewed every day.

 

Yes, you all are special and unique. I'm not sure about the beautiful part though. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

 

Chop wood, carry water.

 

Happy weekend folks!

 

 

But I don't need to chop wood nor carry water. Both are provided to me for a meager sum of money. Therefore I have time to talk with y'all here on this forum.

 

You have a great weekend too!

 

Peace & Love!

Edited August 6, 2010 by Marblehead

[3bob]

edit

Edited August 6, 2010 by 3bob

[3bob]

Edited August 6, 2010 by 3bob

[C T]

hmm, "chop wood and carry water..." that is a good saying, but to me it sounds like you are beating around the bush and spilling the water?

 

The joy and freedom mentioned is not measureable by man or even gods, that is the fundamental "mystery" that is simply right under our noses Gentleman CowTao, regardless of how complex, far-away or "ultimately elusive" mankind may assume or make such out to be. To overcome our entrapments in manipulated doubts is to (edit) come to know such beyond the regular knowing of mankind even if in a form of mankind.

 

Om

In what way did you arrive at the 'beating around the bush and water spilling' conclusion Bob?

 

You are saying Mankind is by nature free. Based on false assumptions we fool ourselves into thinking we are not. Hence we trap ourselves, right?

 

My point is that Mankind is neither free nor bound. Such concepts as freedom and joy are merely relative principles of being we all tend to use to 'keep the fire of hope' alive. We also tend to impose imaginary boundaries and safety zones around us as a result of our limited perception of what it means to be threatened with the potential withdrawal of this illusory freedom. Instead of living without concern for these self-limiting concepts, we ironically magnify them by either saying that freedom and joy are such worthy, exalted states, and hence we ought to strive to attain these elusive fruits thru concerted practice, renunciation etc, or by adopting the extreme opposite view, that is, to abandon all hope of ever finding it, hence becoming desperately cynical, distrusting and hopelessly bitter in the process.

 

If we are courageous enough to discard these yardsticks (security blankets mostly) by which we measure 'spiritual' progress, what are we left with? What sort of *I* would manifest as a result of this letting go?

 

Btw, if there is really such a thing as achievable freedom, it comes at the expense of giving up things, not the hoarding of more truths, philosophies, spiritual insights, the latest 'spiritual' gizmos and empowerments, guru blessings, shakti blessings and all the nonsense attached to this 'game' we play as some kind of distraction or avoidance of actually living the stateless Way that the Taoist sages points to, almost like the trees and the stars, the animals on land, sea and sky... would you say these are free too? I bet the bears and the wolves in the forests and the eagles in the sky are not much concerned with developing super siddhis eh?

 

The OP asks the question, "What am I"?

 

My answer is we are nothing significant, like what Mikaelz implied. We create things/thoughts out of nothing, paint an illusion we are so intelligent/brave/strong in the process, just so we can then spend our lives taking it apart, dismantling these self-imposed, limiting structures, break the fetters that bind, only to ultimately arrive back at nothing. Is this what freedom, joy and spiritual attainment means?

 

We have been doing this ever since time was found.

 

When we will ever learn?