what the *** am i?

[Owledge]

When we will ever learn?

Why should we? Sounds like just another of the concepts you talk about.

[Marblehead]

I will remain silent at the moment because if I speak now I would just be repeating myself.

 

Hey! all you special and unique peope! be well and take care.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

In what way did you arrive at the 'beating around the bush and water spilling' conclusion Bob?

 

You are saying Mankind is by nature free. Based on false assumptions we fool ourselves into thinking we are not. Hence we trap ourselves, right?

 

My point is that Mankind is neither free nor bound. Such concepts as freedom and joy are merely relative principles of being we all tend to use to 'keep the fire of hope' alive. We also tend to impose imaginary boundaries and safety zones around us as a result of our limited perception of what it means to be threatened with the potential withdrawal of this illusory freedom. Instead of living without concern for these self-limiting concepts, we ironically magnify them by either saying that freedom and joy are such worthy, exalted states, and hence we ought to strive to attain these elusive fruits thru concerted practice, renunciation etc, or by adopting the extreme opposite view, that is, to abandon all hope of ever finding it, hence becoming desperately cynical, distrusting and hopelessly bitter in the process.

 

If we are courageous enough to discard these yardsticks (security blankets mostly) by which we measure 'spiritual' progress, what are we left with? What sort of *I* would manifest as a result of this letting go?

 

Btw, if there is really such a thing as achievable freedom, it comes at the expense of giving up things, not the hoarding of more truths, philosophies, spiritual insights, the latest 'spiritual' gizmos and empowerments, guru blessings, shakti blessings and all the nonsense attached to this 'game' we play as some kind of distraction or avoidance of actually living the stateless Way that the Taoist sages points to, almost like the trees and the stars, the animals on land, sea and sky... would you say these are free too? I bet the bears and the wolves in the forests and the eagles in the sky are not much concerned with developing super siddhis eh?

 

The OP asks the question, "What am I"?

 

My answer is we are nothing significant, like what Mikaelz implied. We create things/thoughts out of nothing, paint an illusion we are so intelligent/brave/strong in the process, just so we can then spend our lives taking it apart, dismantling these self-imposed, limiting structures, break the fetters that bind, only to ultimately arrive back at nothing. Is this what freedom, joy and spiritual attainment means?

 

We have been doing this ever since time was found.

 

When we will ever learn?

 

"The one who has entered a solitary place,

Whose mind is clam and who see the way,

To that one comes insight and truth

And rapturous joy transcending any other." Dhammapada

[Vajrahridaya]

"The one who has entered a solitary place,

Whose mind is clam and who see the way,

To that one comes insight and truth

And rapturous joy transcending any other." Dhammapada

 

Mind is clam? Freudian slip!?

Edited August 7, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

Mind is clam? Freudian slip!?

 

Not 3Bob. Hehehe. Maybe me and you but not him.

 

Peace & Love!

[Birch]

"When we will ever learn?"

 

We don't need to learn, we need to stop doing things that are anti-human/life to begin with. Then we wouldn't have to spend all this time undoing the effects of it and trying to get back to the "unconditioned" state.

 

But until we stop doing it then every single human will have to go through the same damn process for themselves, so perhaps all we can do is learn practices and share them with people so that they can use them when they need to (which I unfortunately suspect is going to be the case for a very long time.)

[Marblehead]

We don't need to learn, we need to stop doing things that are anti-human/life to begin with. Then we wouldn't have to spend all this time undoing the effects of it and trying to get back to the "unconditioned" state.

 

But until we stop doing it then every single human will have to go through the same damn process for themselves, so perhaps all we can do is learn practices and share them with people so that they can use them when they need to (which I unfortunately suspect is going to be the case for a very long time.)

 

Yep. Life is really not all that complicated. Be born, grow and mature, propogate the species, rest in old age, and die. That's it. Not complicated at all.

 

It's all the things we add on, and the attachments to those things, that cause us to believe that life is an eternal challenge.

 

So for those who are still at the age of growing, maturing, and propogating the species (if that is their choice), yeah, you still have work to do. But Hey!, everyone who has reached the point of restinhg in old age has gone through the processes. No really big deal.

 

Peace & Love!