Sounds like a Taoist/Buddhist cross...

[Sunya]

But not directly from the Buddha himself.

There is no proof that the Buddha did indeed say the things that were written down hundreds of years after his death.

I find it hard to comprehend that the amount of Buddhist literature supposedly attributed to the Buddha, could be memorized over many generations, before being written down.

 

It was either skillful means (so people believed) or the Buddha truly did teach using a subtle body in "astral realms" and these teachings were then written down and taught as the Buddha's own word. Either way it doesn't matter. Do the teachings make sense? Do they work? That's all that matters. Buddhism is entirely pragmatic.

[xabir2005]

But not directly from the Buddha himself.

There is no proof that the Buddha did indeed say the things that were written down hundreds of years after his death.

I find it hard to comprehend that the amount of Buddhist literature supposedly attributed to the Buddha, could be memorized over many generations, before being written down.

Not memorized, but recited in groups, so the oral transmission is pure. There were also Buddhist councils (meeting of hundreds of monks) to make sure they were getting it right.

 

The Pali canon suttas are orally transmitted before written down and goes right back to the Buddha's times. In other words, they were the original words of the Buddha.

 

The Mahayana sutras are another matter however, as many suggest they were literary (written works) rather than orally transmitted. Nevertheless even though they are not the spoken words of the empirical, historical appearance of Buddha, they are still spoken from enlightened wisdom.

Edited August 3, 2010 by xabir2005

[Marblehead]

 

Now that's especially weird because your posts do give off a nice warm vibe.

 

 

Thanks!

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Silly wabbits... Buddhahood far and away transcends anything you who do not even know your past human lives can even grasp as of yet.

 

Yeah, I know. Imagination is a wonderful thing.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

There are contending theories (see M-theory) that many physicists are subscribing to which make more sense than the Big Bang theory. These theories do not have time beginning at a single point and the big bang as a first cause, but rather the big bang as an effect of a previous cause.

 

Personally I think it makes much more sense for the creation of the universe to be preceded by a previous moment which caused that creation, such as the contraction of a previous universe or, like in m-theory, when two membranes touch each other, all of these theories have the common-sensical understanding that a causeless cause is absurd. Much more logical than "the first cause happened because it had to happen" - sounds very childish, sorry.

 

I just started hearing about M theory and have not heard enough to form any opinions. From what I understand, M theory requires multi-verses. I doubt that their existence will ever be provable.

 

No apologies need for that area I put into red. That is your opinion. I respect that.

 

However, it is my understanding that if we cannot prove a concept we should keep that concept as simple as possible.

 

Peace & Love!

[Birch]

"a causeless cause is absurd"

 

And isn't it what some physicists are trying to examine, that random (seemingly) events do just come into existence? That I find it absurd is one thing.

 

"Absurdity" could just be a defense-reaction to the final proof that I have no control at all over reality. Worse than this, I can't even explain it plausibly, so who will listen to my wisdom and authority now?

 

The "ownership" of the creation myth confers large amounts of wordly (and political) power to whoever "has" it. And if we can't own our creation myth anymore then I guess we can try to own our "destruction" myth. See people currently vying to do this in various ways, problem being they might just actually end up killing us all in the process.

[Brian]

...

[Brian]

...

[Marblehead]

Yeah, actually, to try to explain something that happened before the beginning is rather silly, IMO.

 

Prior universes? We, everyone, no one excluded, have no idea if there was a universe prior to this on. Yes, we can pretend we know but that is not knowing.

 

I feel the same way concerning prior lifes. But that is my understanding and others seem to have much deeper understandings than I do.

 

So there has been life of some form on this planet for about 3.5 billion years and man has been here for only 4 million years at most. So if there is such a thing as prior lifes I wonder what all kinds of animals I have been during the 3 billion years prior to the arrival of man on earth.

 

No, actually, I don't wonder about that. The concept never interested me. I am happy with this life I have.

 

Peace & Love!

[adept]

No, actually, I don't wonder about that. The concept never interested me. I am happy with this life I have.

 

And so am I.

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah, I know. Imagination is a wonderful thing.

 

Peace & Love!

 

LOL! Yes it is!!

[Vajrahridaya]

Yeah, actually, to try to explain something that happened before the beginning is rather silly, IMO.

 

 

The idea that the big bang is the beginning is rather silly.

 

Prior universes? We, everyone, no one excluded, have no idea if there was a universe prior to this on. Yes, we can pretend we know but that is not knowing.

 

Please don't project your own limitations on everyone.

What we call direct experience you might call imagination, but that's just you looking from without, trying to fit someone elses experience into your own box so that you can make sense of it for yourself within the scope of your own experience. That's pretty limiting, both of others and yourself.

[Vajrahridaya]

What about past non-human lives?

 

Totally! That too!

[Sunya]

The idea that the big bang is the beginning is rather silly.

 

 

 

I agree. I think it's true that science tries to do too much and it's rather unnecessary to figure out an equation for everything, but at the same time the belief that everything began at a single point in time is strange. Many atheists love science and abhor creationists, but at the same time they ascribe to this theory of a beginning which is basically the same thing: a causeless cause. Through observation, we can see that everything has a preceding cause. How can a causeless cause be? Unless, as more modern physics theories suggest, this cause was from another dimension; yes this universe may have 'begun' at the big bang but all of reality is actually eternal.

[Vajrahridaya]

I agree. I think it's true that science tries to do too much and it's rather unnecessary to figure out an equation for everything, but at the same time the belief that everything began at a single point in time is strange. Many atheists love science and abhor creationists, but at the same time they ascribe to this theory of a beginning which is basically the same thing: a causeless cause. Through observation, we can see that everything has a preceding cause. How can a causeless cause be? Unless, as more modern physics theories suggest, this cause was from another dimension; yes this universe may have 'begun' at the big bang but all of reality is actually eternal.

 

Right, like the theory that through a black hole is just another dimension of experiential reality. It seems far fetched to some, but it doesn't to me at all, considering what happens when we go through the black holes of our minds and how it feels like a suction cup in meditation and you go through it turning into multiple colors through a tube and end up in an entirely different dimension. Some aren't even illumined by physical suns but instead by the beings that live in these planes of existence, the people shine so bright.

 

There is a huge difference between imagination and the experiences that happen naturally through meditation. My experiences have been corroborated by the sacred texts, so I do believe in their validity.

 

I do not at all subscribe to the idea that the big bang was the begin "all" of "be". I don't really believe in an absolute alpha and omega. I subscribe to infinite regress....... echo, echo, echo, echo....

[Marblehead]

The idea that the big bang is the beginning is rather silly.

 

So there you go suggesting that all the physicists who hold to the theory of the Big Bang are silly. That's not a very good expression of wisdom or even unbiased thought. You have already said that you believe in the Big Bang theory. So not only are you calling all the PhD's silly but you are calling yourself silly too. Shameful!

 

Please don't project your own limitations on everyone.

What we call direct experience you might call imagination, but that's just you looking from without, trying to fit someone elses experience into your own box so that you can make sense of it for yourself within the scope of your own experience. That's pretty limiting, both of others and yourself.

 

Why do you keep saying that? Please don't project your own limitations on everyone. Is that one of your favorite sayings?

 

So I will state it again: We, everyone, no one excluded, have no idea if there was a universe prior to this on. Yes, we can pretend we know but that is not knowing.

 

I messed up. I posted this before I was ready.

 

Okay. Prove to me that you or anyone else on this planet knows what existed before anything existed. I will eve be flexible and be satisfied with just one piece of scientifically reproducable fact. Yes, just one.

 

I know about illusions and delusions. I really do know what they are. And as long as there is no proof supporting a statement made by anyone the statement must remain in the realm of imagination or hypothesis. You can't even propose a theory unless you have at least one piece of factual data.

 

I am not necessarily saying you are wrong. All I am saying is that all evidence points against such things. But people believe in what they will. I used to believe in the Tooth Fairy.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited August 3, 2010 by Marblehead

[adept]

We, everyone, no one excluded, have no idea if there was a universe prior to this on. Yes, we can pretend we know but that is not knowing.

 

It is all mere speculation, we just don't know.

[Marblehead]

I agree. I think it's true that science tries to do too much and it's rather unnecessary to figure out an equation for everything, but at the same time the belief that everything began at a single point in time is strange. Many atheists love science and abhor creationists, but at the same time they ascribe to this theory of a beginning which is basically the same thing: a causeless cause. Through observation, we can see that everything has a preceding cause. How can a causeless cause be? Unless, as more modern physics theories suggest, this cause was from another dimension; yes this universe may have 'begun' at the big bang but all of reality is actually eternal.

 

Are you denying that the big bang was the beginning of this observable universe?

 

And who ever say anything about a causeless cause?

 

And I remind you all that Taoist Philosophy is based on the concept of cause and effect.

 

You can only imagine another dimension. There is no proof of any actually existing.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Right,

There is a huge difference between imagination and the experiences that happen naturally through meditation. My experiences have been corroborated by the sacred texts, so I do believe in their validity.

 

I do not at all subscribe to the idea that the big bang was the begin "all" of "be". I don't really believe in an absolute alpha and omega. I subscribe to infinite regress....... echo, echo, echo, echo....

 

Well, of course you two are going to agree with each other. I wouldn't expect otherwise!

 

Yes, there is a difference; one is done while conscious and the other is done while unconscious. I don't question your experiences. I only question your assertion that thing are the way your experience suggests they are.

 

Afterall, people with schizophrenia believe this exact same way.

 

Well, I already stated that I hold to the concept of cycles. But, if there was a prior universe, upon total regression into singulaity that universe ended and the first movement away from singularity was the beginning of this current one.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

So there you go suggesting that all the physicists who hold to the theory of the Big Bang are silly. That's not a very good expression of wisdom or even unbiased thought. You have already said that you believe in the Big Bang theory. So not only are you calling all the PhD's silly but you are calling yourself silly too. Shameful!

 

 

I agree with the phd's that agree with the M theory. Endless big bangs and beginningless universes, not just one.

 

Why do you keep saying that? Please don't project your own limitations on everyone. Is that one of your favorite sayings?

 

Because you do a lot of this. You think that because you haven't had the experience of insight into past and future lives and other dimensions of existence for yourself after this life ends, you think it's all imagination and unprovable. But, this just isn't so. There are so many instances that one can read online of children remembering details of their past lives and coming up with amazing proof that this is so.

 

So I will state it again: We, everyone, no one excluded, have no idea if there was a universe prior to this on. Yes, we can pretend we know but that is not knowing.

 

I completely disagree with this. I have experienced and remembered past lives and I have seen into other universes so for me, you are wrong on all accounts. There are so many people who have experience of this, and even brought up proof. One of the ways they found this Dalai Lama was by him proving through memory that he was the previous Dalai Lama. He had to show where he hid things and what items were his from his previous life and such. He was given these tests as a small boy. So again, please don't limit everyone by your own categorical limitations based upon a lack of memory.

 

Okay. Prove to me that you or anyone else on this planet knows what existed before anything existed. I will eve be flexible and be satisfied with just one piece of scientifically reproducable fact. Yes, just one.

One can't prove dimensions beyond the 5 senses without you first transcending your own limited ideas about your own consciousness through meditation. The truth of M theory shows that there is no time that nothing existed, things just existed in different dimensions and then existed into this dimension seemingly as a big bang. But, this big bang was not the beginning of existence according to M-Theory. Also, not according to the Vedas and what the Buddha taught. Science is deeply behind the truths revealed to great beings in meditation through the medium of taking conscious awareness past the realm of the senses.

 

I know about illusions and delusions. I really do know what they are. And as long as there is no proof supporting a statement made by anyone the statement must remain in the realm of imagination or hypothesis. You can't even propose a theory unless you have at least one piece of factual data.

 

Then study up on M-theory since you think everyone who has experienced past lives or beyond this dimension of the 5 senses is deluded and filled with illusions even though at times these people have proven who they were in a past life through various tests.

 

I am not necessarily saying you are wrong. All I am saying is that all evidence points against such things. But people believe in what they will. I used to believe in the Tooth Fairy.

 

You are saying that I am wrong as I am saying you are wrong. I am saying that your criteria for evidence is deeply limited.

 

Peace & Love!

 

The only statement in your post that truly makes sense to me. It's a good one at that.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Well, I already stated that I hold to the concept of cycles. But, if there was a prior universe, upon total regression into singulaity that universe ended and the first movement away from singularity was the beginning of this current one.

 

Peace & Love!

 

You are merely talking about Pralaya as singularity. It's a very old concept from early Vedic times up to and beyond 4,000 years ago.

 

Pralaya means "non-existence, a state of matter achieved when the three gunas (principles of matter) are in perfect balance.

 

They also talk about how this happens over and over again, that there is no real beginning, just cycling, over, and over, and over... endlessly.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

airtight, as usual. Unprove-a-wrongable, your trademark, as usual, because of self-referential "truths". There are lots of things online, you can't believe them all, like you always say all the things said online everywhere about your former guru muktananda aren't true. If you have all the answers, and experiences, why are you just puttering around online? You should be leading a sangha somewhere, with your level of understanding and experiences...

Edited August 3, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

like you always say all the things said online everywhere about your former guru muktananda aren't true.

 

For correction. I said that many of the things said against him online were true, just mis-contextualized and completely mis-understood due to limited perspective. A limited perspective which you also share Songs. Thus, I don't really like you much as a personality. But, when I'm doing my practice I experience great compassion for you, though you don't really care. Even your posts on other threads are filled with limiting mental dross. You suffer from molasses mentality.

 

Putting you back on ignore.

[Marblehead]

I agree with the phd's that agree with the M theory. Endless big bangs and beginningless universes, not just one.

 

M theory is exactly what it is - a theory. There is no reproducable facts as of yet supporting it. There are thousands of facts supporting the Big Bang theory and yet it too is only a theory bacause it still, and probably never will be, proven, without a doubt, to be so.

 

M theory is just a game the physicists who have nothing else to do are playing with. Their own special game machine.

 

Because you do a lot of this. You think that because you haven't had the experience of insight into past and future lives and other dimensions of existence for yourself after this life ends, you think it's all imagination and unprovable. But, this just isn't so. There are so many instances that one can read online of children remembering details of their past lives and coming up with amazing proof that this is so.

 

There has never been one single scientific investigation to support such a thing. No one! Yes, people make up these stories and their next door neighbors say yes, it's true. But when subjected to scientific investigation every one has fallen apart. Now, I'm not saying that people should not believe in the concept if it helps them through their life. What I am saying, and have always said is that we need to know what our illusions and delusions are. If you want another life, go ahead on! Go for it! Have many!

 

I completely disagree with this. I have experienced and remembered past lives and I have seen into other universes so for me, you are wrong on all accounts. There are so many people who have experience of this, and even brought up proof. One of the ways they found this Dalai Lama was by him proving through memory that he was the previous Dalai Lama. He had to show where he hid things and what items were his from his previous life and such. He was given these tests as a small boy. So again, please don't limit everyone by your own categorical limitations based upon a lack of memory.

 

And I suggest that this is BS. Yes, that is all it is. Just one piece of proof. Just one. That's all I am asking for.

 

No, I will not place a limit on anyone's imagination. That is not my place. But I will suggest to everyone that I am hearing unvalidated information when I here it here on this forum.

 

People have the free will to listen to you, listen to me, or listen to neither of us.

 

One can't prove dimensions beyond the 5 senses without you first transcending your own limited ideas about your own consciousness through meditation. The truth of M theory shows that there is no time that nothing existed, things just existed in different dimensions and then existed into this dimension seemingly as a big bang. But, this big bang was not the beginning of existence according to M-Theory. Also, not according to the Vedas and what the Buddha taught. Science is deeply behind the truths revealed to great beings in meditation through the medium of taking conscious awareness past the realm of the senses.

 

There is no truth to M theory as of yet. It is all speculation. A guessing game. That is all.

 

So you are hooked on M theory now. The new fad. Good for you.

 

Science is deeply behind the mystics? What say you????? You are surely just poking fun now.

 

Then study up on M-theory since you think everyone who has experienced past lives or beyond this dimension of the 5 senses is deluded and filled with illusions even though at times these people have proven who they were in a past life through various tests.

 

I am staying informed concerning M theory and it is a fact: It is all specualtion at the moment and there is not one piece of evidence to support it.

 

And if I am incorrect in this would you please enlighten me with your known facts?

 

And once again, on past lives, show me one piece of scientific fact supporting the concept. Without facts all we have is hypothesis. That is sometimes also called imagination.

 

You are saying that I am wrong as I am saying you are wrong. I am saying that your criteria for evidence is deeply limited.

 

Maybe we are both wrong?

 

My limited criteria? One piece of proof? Just one piece of scientific evidence? This is limited? Only one? I'm not asking for 50. Only one. What's the problem?

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

You are merely talking about Pralaya as singularity. It's a very old concept from early Vedic times up to and beyond 4,000 years ago.

 

Pralaya means "non-existence, a state of matter achieved when the three gunas (principles of matter) are in perfect balance.

 

They also talk about how this happens over and over again, that there is no real beginning, just cycling, over, and over, and over... endlessly.

 

Well damn! We don't have a problem here.

 

Oh well.

 

Peace & Love!