Sounds like a Taoist/Buddhist cross...

[3bob]

[Marblehead]

Yep. I agree.

 

It is my opinion that it is within Zen that we can actually see the commonality between Taoism and Buddhism.

 

The Japanese took what they thought were the best aspects of both and created their own special belief system and threw in some purely Japanese thought just to make it different.

 

Peace & Love!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Yep. I agree.

 

It is my opinion that it is within Zen that we can actually see the commonality between Taoism and Buddhism.

 

The Japanese took what they thought were the best aspects of both and created their own special belief system and threw in some purely Japanese thought just to make it different.

 

Peace & Love!

 

So you saying that Zen is really Tao/Buddhism mixed together?

I have been studying Zen and it is seems to relate to Tao, quite a bit...

[Marblehead]

So you saying that Zen is really Tao/Buddhism mixed together?

I have been studying Zen and it is seems to relate to Tao, quite a bit...

 

Yes, that is my understanding but I confess that my knowledge on this is very limited. I may very well be wrong.

 

Peace & Love!

[Gerard]

So you saying that Zen is really Tao/Buddhism mixed together?

I have been studying Zen and it is seems to relate to Tao, quite a bit...

 

Leon, my friend. All religions and spiritual practices deep down are the same. When you trascend the self and commune with the Divine source all phenomena ceases to exist. I am now using words but really one needs to experience it because the truth words can't really define it.

 

When you reach the final goal you start manifesting the divine light that is buried deep within us. But even then you still will be present in a human body and mind, having to go to work and pay bills and taxes like the rest of us

 

Keep practicing and remember to focus on your higher self at all times even when you catch the bus or buy fruit at the grocery store.

 

In the meantime visiting this forum reminds you that the world out there vibrates at a different rate.

 

Keep going, my friend.

 

Good luck!

[3bob]

Leon, my friend. All religions and spiritual practices deep down are the same. When you trascend the self and commune with the Divine source all phenomena ceases to exist. I am now using words but really one needs to experience it because the truth words can't really define it.

 

When you reach the final goal you start manifesting the divine light that is buried deep within us. But even then you still will be present in a human body and mind, having to go to work and pay bills and taxes like the rest of us

 

Keep practicing and remember to focus on your higher self at all times even when you catch the bus or buy fruit at the grocery store.

 

In the meantime visiting this forum reminds you that the world out there vibrates at a different rate.

 

Keep going, my friend.

 

Good luck!

 

Hello Durkhrod,

 

I don't have any problem with what you are saying but I can imagine that some of our Buddhist members here would totally reject and then proceed to refute what you are saying (as related to Buddhism) as having nothing to do with their form of Buddhism.

 

Good Luck also

 

Om

Edited July 31, 2010 by 3bob

[Vajrahridaya]

[Tao99]

.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Tao99

[Vajrahridaya]

I am personally insulted that you have called me ignorant. That is a personal insult which is against rules. Report filed.

 

Cat said it best in other thread:

 

"... I consider your name calling of me as [ignorant] to be bullying and disrespectful, an attempt to diminish and demean me and suggest my [state] of mind is compromised. It is an attempt to belittle me."

 

I didn't call you ignorant. I said that according to Buddhism, the root cause of dwelling in heaven realms and earth realms is ignorance. So, I'm calling everyone ignorant, including me. Unless you have completely obliterated ignorance and thus your root cause for manifesting is now compassion on all levels?

 

Talk about taking a statement completely out of context.

[3bob]

Btw, It also seems to me V. that you are taking the Zen Buddhist master's saying out of context because you do not intuitively understand it...

[Vajrahridaya]

Btw, It also seems to me V. that you are taking the Zen Buddhist master's saying out of context because you do not intuitively understand it...

 

I understand the experience that leads to the delusion of a single original substance of all things quite well, and if this Zen teacher is talking about this, which he might not be but may appear to be due to translation errors as well as pulling one statement out of the context of the whole? But if he is saying that all things come from one transcendent essence that shines from it's own Self, then this would not be in line with Buddhas insight. This type of clinging only leads to re-absorption at the end of a cosmic eon. This idea that we are all one substance leads to this experience when the karmas of activity cease during the pralaya. A buddha transcends the Pralaya through insight of dependent origination and goes to another universe in order to do dharma action, a universe that is not undergoing pralaya as of yet.

[Marblehead]

Well, I guess Zen isn't much like Buddhism afterall.

 

Oh well.

 

Peace & Love!

[3bob]

I understand the experience that leads to the delusion of a single original substance of all things quite well, and if this Zen teacher is talking about this, which he might not be but may appear to be due to translation errors as well as pulling one statement out of the context of the whole? But if he is saying that all things come from one transcendent essence that shines from it's own Self, then this would not be in line with Buddhas insight. This type of clinging only leads to re-absorption at the end of a cosmic eon. This idea that we are all one substance leads to this experience when the karmas of activity cease during the pralaya. A buddha transcends the Pralaya through insight of dependent origination and goes to another universe in order to do dharma action, a universe that is not undergoing pralaya as of yet.

 

all so called universes are under what could be called the multi-verse, thus anyone going in time and space to another universe is still within the wheel of samsara. (and there is only one wheel) Thus a Buddha transcends samsara not by going to another part of it but by attaining the Absolute as spoken of by the historic Buddha.

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, I guess Zen isn't much like Buddhism afterall.

 

Oh well.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Marblehead, some is and some is not. It depends on the lineage or the individual as in any interpretation of a spiritual traditions teachings.

[JustARandomPanda]

I am personally insulted that you have called me ignorant. That is a personal insult which is against rules. Report filed.

 

Cat said it best in other thread:

 

"... I consider your name calling of me as [ignorant] to be bullying and disrespectful, an attempt to diminish and demean me and suggest my [state] of mind is compromised. It is an attempt to belittle me."

 

 

***Mod Squad****

 

Nowhere did I see Vajrahidaya personally single you out Tao99 to say you were ignorant. In reference to Cat's statement above Raymond did specifically call out Cat by name in that other thread. There's the difference.

 

-SB

 

***Mod Squad Out***

[Marblehead]

all so called universes are under what could be called the multi-verse, thus anyone going in time and space to another universe is still within the wheel of samsara. (and there is only one wheel) Thus a Buddha transcends samsara not by going to another part of it but by attaining the Absolute as spoken of by the historic Buddha.

 

Wow! That almost sounds like you are saying that the Buddha got spaced out.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

all so called universes are under what could be called the multi-verse, thus anyone going in time and space to another universe is still within the wheel of samsara. (and there is only one wheel) Thus a Buddha transcends samsara not by going to another part of it but by attaining the Absolute as spoken of by the historic Buddha.

 

The Buddha never spoke of an absolute self existence. You are mistaken.

 

When he speaks of the unconditioned, the uncompounded, he is talking about the insight of Nirvana, which uncompounds from being compounded much like untying a knot, so this experience also arises dependent upon the insight of emptiness and is not an absolute existence that transcends everything.

 

Also, the experience of Samsara becomes Nirvana for a Buddha, thus they can go anywhere in Samsara and only experience Nirvana. As Nirvana is not an absolute transcendence, but rather the experiential insight into how Samsara works, and thus one is internally unsullied by any of it. This is why they say, Samsara is Nirvana. One need not transcend anything, just have insight into everything. This is how the Buddha say's, "Go beyond, far beyond", not into an absolute essence, but rather just through direct insight, so it's not a literal go beyond, it's rather just see, truly see. Thus the Buddha was considered "Awake", and not a "God". The Upanishads and Buddhas sermons are at odds with each other and do not come to the same conclusions.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

Marblehead, some is and some is not. It depends on the lineage or the individual as in any interpretation of a spiritual traditions teachings.

 

I know. I was just being naughty.

 

My initial posted understanding still holds.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Tao99

[JustARandomPanda]

He's calling everyone ignorant same as when I said everyone 70,000 years ago had a low IQ (equivalent to mental retardation which is mere scientific fact). For that I got reamed out and told I would have been banned if seen earlier. Where's the difference?

 

Well if I recall that thread correctly you stated even after 70,000 years Africans still ended up dimwits. I suspect that is the line that made Scotty snap and report you.

 

 

I'm a part of the "everyone" he is referring to, thus by deduction he has indeed said "I am ignorant." I am personally insulted by name calling me ignorant.

 

I consider his name calling of me (as included in "everyone") as ignorant to be bullying and disrespectful, an attempt to diminish and demean me and suggest my state of mind is compromised. It is an attempt to belittle me."

 

 

Vajra was calling the belief ignorance, not you personally. It was part of his attempt to explain how Buddhism sees the subject 3Bob posted. Buddhism DOES state that ignorance is a root condition of the human race. Your reaction is understandable since people react strongly to things they really disagree with but it's not a reason for action to be taken.

 

 

Take a chill pill Bro. I like your contributions and you usually have some good insights. I would like to hear your take on 3Bob's posts. If Vajra starts to single you (or anyone else out) he knows what the consequences will be. It's all good in the woods.

[Tao99]

an ignorant person is the exact same thing as a dimwit. They mean the exact same thing. I guess its to complicated due to the ignorance lurking in everyone's including your root. But at least your not a cheerleader! (take a chill pill )

[3bob]

The Buddha never spoke of an absolute self existence. You are mistaken.

 

When he speaks of the unconditioned, the uncompounded, he is talking about the insight of Nirvana, which uncompounds from being compounded much like untying a knot, so this experience also arises dependent upon the insight of emptiness and is not an absolute existence that transcends everything.

 

Also, the experience of Samsara becomes Nirvana for a Buddha, thus they can go anywhere in Samsara and only experience Nirvana. As Nirvana is not an absolute transcendence, but rather the experiential insight into how Samsara works, and thus one is internally unsullied by any of it. This is why they say, Samsara is Nirvana. One need not transcend anything, just have insight into everything. This is how the Buddha say's, "Go beyond, far beyond", not into an absolute essence, but rather just through direct insight, so it's not a literal go beyond, it's rather just see, truly see. Thus the Buddha was considered "Awake", and not a "God". The Upanishads and Buddhas sermons are at odds with each other and do not come to the same conclusions.

 

just call that V's interpretation co-opting parts of others. The Buddha can speak for Himself.

[JustARandomPanda]

an ignorant person is the exact same thing as a dimwit. They mean the exact same thing. I guess its to complicated due to the ignorance lurking in everyone's including your root. But at least your not a cheerleader! (take a chill pill )

 

Oh I'm definitely ignorant! I'll admit that. And yes I'm a cheerleader too. I LIKE MARBLE! YIPPEE_KAI_YAY!!

[Kameel]

Ignorance ='s lack of knowledge

 

Dimwit ='s stupid or silly person

 

Completely different

 

I don't personally agree with V's interpretation on this, but the words are different and hold separate charges.

[Marblehead]

Hi Folks,

 

I see both sides of the coin.

 

I believe Tao99 has a valid point.

 

But then VJ is doing nothing more here than quoting words from his belief system.

 

 

Here is the definition of 'ignorant' from Webster:

 

 

IGNORANT

 

Function: adjective

 

Date: 14th century

 

1 a :destitute of knowledge or education <an ignorant society> ; also :lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified <parents ignorant of modern mathematics>

 

b :resulting from or showing lack of knowledge or intelligence <ignorant errors>

 

2 : UNAWARE, UNINFORMED

 

synonyms: ILLITERATE, UNLETTERED, UNTUTORED, UNLEARNED

 

mean not having knowledge. Ignorant may imply a general condition or it may apply to lack of knowledge or awareness of a particular thing <an ignorant fool> < ignorant

of nuclear physics>.

 

Illiterate applies to either an absolute or a relative inability to read and write <much of the population is still illiterate >.

 

Unlettered implies ignorance of the knowledge gained by reading <an allusion meaningless to the unlettered>.

 

Untutored may imply lack of schooling in the arts and ways of civilization <strange monuments built by an untutored people>.

 

Unlearned suggests ignorance of advanced subjects <poetry not for academics but for the unlearned masses>.

 

So really the word 'ignorant' is not a very nice word to use, by anyone referring to anyone else.

 

There are many of us members here who are not Buddhists so the word 'ignorant' when referring to our state of mind is very inappropriate.

 

But I do agree that ignorance is the cause of much of many people's suffering. Although, not everyone is suffering so the Buddhist concept of the cause of suffering does not even apply. Therefore I do not feel it is anywhere close to being accurate to suggest that everyone is ignorant, especially considering the common usage of the word in everyday English.

 

From the definition above I think that the more appropriate word to have been used in the post in question would have been "unlettered". Yes, there are many of us who are unlettered in the ways of the Buddhists. But we are by no means ignorant.

 

So let's everyone chill out and understand that when a member is quoting doctrine from a belief system they usually use the words as they were originally written or translated.

 

Peace & Love!