Sounds like a Taoist/Buddhist cross...

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

For correction. I said that many of the things said against him online were true, just mis-contextualized and completely mis-understood due to limited perspective. A limited perspective which you also share Songs. Thus, I don't really like you much as a personality. But, when I'm doing my practice I experience great compassion for you, though you don't really care. Even your posts on other threads are filled with limiting mental dross. You suffer from molasses mentality.

 

Putting you back on ignore.

Cool, likewise. Your rationalization of muktananda's "special transmissions" that were subsequently brought to light only make sense if he had not done those things secretly, only to be exposed later by those he transmitted to. If he had announced what he was doing, then he can get away with special tantric transmission, maybe. The fact that you have drunk the kool aid, and your guru is always right makes me doubt your take on anything.

 

You suffer from closed mentality. I am pleased that you include me in your practices. I see that we each hold a dim view of each other's posts. You actually know a lot, you just have one context in which to interpret things, and you are closed and limited.

 

I take it as a compliment that that you have even read my posts in other threads. Which limiting mental cross do you refer to, young master? Maybe the last thread I started, about my elderly neighbor and his sick wife who committed suicide rather than live in debility without each other? Why didn't you post a comment? Too limited with my mental dross?

You also have no Idea of my personality. None. You only know what I post, that's not me. Why are other people the only ones in Vajra's world who "project"? You think you're Incapable of projection? You are one of the biggest culprits here.

 

By the way, even if you do not accept the Big Bang theory, to call it "silly" is, well, pretty silly of you to do.

Edited August 3, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Marblehead]

Well, I still like both of you and that's the way it is. No, we don't have to agree all the time. That wouldn't be any fun anyhow.

 

Y'all be well and take care.

 

Peace & Love!

[Encephalon]

Okay... now that's a stretch. Vajrahridaya, we're back to the same cognitive stalemate that existed over a year ago. I thought we shared some resonance over the subjects of dependent co-arising (paticca samuppada), general systems theory and cognitive science, and I heartily encourage you to move back to our old stomping grounds of Bezerkeley, rich with friendly Buddhists and the UC Berkeley Cognitive Science Dept. and start grinding out your formal ed. Your practice of indulging in self-referential truths while deflecting independent corroboration is still in evidence. It would be disturbing indeed if you were to acquire a genuine proficiency with your chosen material but lost the ability to be taken seriously by your peers because of a fundamental error in "closed-loop reasoning."

 

Your experiental studies/practice will bring a great deal of maturity to your academic career, while your formal college studies will render your spiritual universe with an even sturdier integrity. Best wishes.

 

(PS - rents may be cheaper in Pleasant Hill, and DVC is a great campus to crank out lower div. stuff.)

[Vajrahridaya]

M theory is exactly what it is - a theory. There is no reproducable facts as of yet supporting it. There are thousands of facts supporting the Big Bang theory and yet it too is only a theory bacause it still, and probably never will be, proven, without a doubt, to be so.

 

M theory is just a game the physicists who have nothing else to do are playing with. Their own special game machine.

 

 

Again, based upon your limited criteria for proof. Which is fine, but don't limit everyone else to it thinking that it's absolute. You should be more agnostic.

 

There has never been one single scientific investigation to support such a thing. No one!

 

Yes there have. Some critical and some supportive. There are plenty that are just not answerable outside of the acceptance of the evidence as truth of the fact, that past lives are true and real. Of course, you will plaster these evidences with your doubts because you attach so much importance to these doubts of yours, making them a part of your personality.

 

Yes, people make up these stories and their next door neighbors say yes, it's true. But when subjected to scientific investigation every one has fallen apart.

 

Not true at all, there is one particularly famous story that was on Opera I think or some major talk show many years ago. Now as the kid who remembered his life as a soldier in a previous existence is all grown up and has since forgotten the memories entirely.

 

 

Now, I'm not saying that people should not believe in the concept if it helps them through their life. What I am saying, and have always said is that we need to know what our illusions and delusions are. If you want another life, go ahead on! Go for it! Have many!

 

Thanks... the facts don't need your permission for their existence, even if they exist from a different dimension of verifiability. Walk through the door of your consciousness Marble... find how deep awareness can go!! Meditate, suspend your beliefs and go deeper than your limiting conditions... deeper.... deeeper....

[Vajrahridaya]

And I suggest that this is BS. Yes, that is all it is. Just one piece of proof. Just one. That's all I am asking for.

You want physical proof of a dimension beyond this physical realm? :lol:

 

Meditate dear Watson, Meditate! Go past your illusions into the facts!

 

No, I will not place a limit on anyone's imagination. That is not my place. But I will suggest to everyone that I am hearing unvalidated information when I here it here on this forum.

 

There is a difference between imagination and inter-dimensional travel.

People have the free will to listen to you, listen to me, or listen to neither of us.

True that!

 

 

There is no truth to M theory as of yet. It is all speculation. A guessing game. That is all.

 

There is proof for me. It also is a theory equal with the findings of Buddhas since ancient times.

 

So you are hooked on M theory now. The new fad. Good for you.

 

It's actually a very old one. I believed in this theory before I even read that scientists were into it. It's been a Buddhist theory for very long time and even a Vedic theory since even before the dawn of the agricultural period.

 

Science is deeply behind the mystics? What say you????? You are surely just poking fun now.

 

Nope. Scientists are just finding out what the yogi's have known for thousands of years. Consciousness is a subtler paradigm of study than dualistic scientific means. So, the yogic science of consciousness has always been light years ahead of the stoned on 5 sense type of people like yourself.

 

My limited criteria? One piece of proof? Just one piece of scientific evidence? This is limited? Only one? I'm not asking for 50. Only one. What's the problem?

 

Peace & Love!

 

There is plenty of proof hiding behind your ability to expand your own awareness through conscious meditation practice, but your awareness is too knotted up by your 5 senses as a limiting criteria to even read me properly.

 

Still...

 

Peace and Love to you as well Marbled one!

[Marblehead]

And, as I have said many times before, if your belief system helps you through your life then it is good. All I have ever suggested is that we look at the world we have to live this life on, try to understand the processes of the nature of this world, and live our life so that we experience as few problems as possible.

 

But reincarnation has nothing to do with living "THIS" life that we have.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

Okay... now that's a stretch. Vajrahridaya, we're back to the same cognitive stalemate that existed over a year ago. I thought we shared some resonance over the subjects of dependent co-arising (paticca samuppada), general systems theory and cognitive science, and I heartily encourage you to move back to our old stomping grounds of Bezerkeley, rich with friendly Buddhists and the UC Berkeley Cognitive Science Dept. and start grinding out your formal ed. Your practice of indulging in self-referential truths while deflecting independent corroboration is still in evidence. It would be disturbing indeed if you were to acquire a genuine proficiency with your chosen material but lost the ability to be taken seriously by your peers because of a fundamental error in "closed-loop reasoning."

 

Your experiental studies/practice will bring a great deal of maturity to your academic career, while your formal college studies will render your spiritual universe with an even sturdier integrity. Best wishes.

 

(PS - rents may be cheaper in Pleasant Hill, and DVC is a great campus to crank out lower div. stuff.)

 

I do agree that most of these conversations are quite pointless. But, I have fun with them anyhow.

 

I truly appreciate your wise offer! It's within deep consideration that I appreciate it.

 

Danka!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Whoa. Just...whoa. Quite the intellect. Meditation now trumps science? Now that's silly.

[Vajrahridaya]

And, as I have said many times before, if your belief system helps you through your life then it is good. All I have ever suggested is that we look at the world we have to live this life on, try to understand the processes of the nature of this world, and live our life so that we experience as few problems as possible.

 

But reincarnation has nothing to do with living "THIS" life that we have.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Actually, without understanding reincarnation or rebirth, nothing really makes sense. Without the fact of rebirth equated into the system of study, we are at a loss for why good things happen to bad people and vice versa, unless one would succumb to the idea that Chaos is reality. Of course some people are like, "Why does life have to make sense?" This is not good enough for me personally and never has been. So, I study, especially the nature of perception and how it's conditioned and fooled by the 5 senses. I don't identify with this body Marble, there is subtler going's on. One cannot really find out through the dualistic medium of the 5 senses which seems to be your only criteria of information. You think schizophrenics are all properly diagnosed as such? If I go to a doctor and admit to seeing beyond the 5 senses, they will plug me full of pills and dumb me down because I don't fit into their little boxes of "Normal."

 

Your box of "Normal" is too small for me.

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, I still like both of you and that's the way it is. No, we don't have to agree all the time. That wouldn't be any fun anyhow.

 

Y'all be well and take care.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Hi Marble! The reason why I like you as a personality and not Songs, is because Songs just makes insulting statements without actually joining the discussion. While you on the other hand make insulting statements, mostly just jokingly, while joining the discussion and making contributions that are generally quite interesting.

 

So... this is how my opinion is conditioned. Songs is just an insult troll, while you are actually an engaging soul.

 

You don't have to agree with me in terms of why I think meditation transcends scientific findings, but you actually try to explain why you belief that science goes deeper than meditation.

[Marblehead]

Again, based upon your limited criteria for proof. Which is fine, but don't limit everyone else to it thinking that it's absolute. You should be more agnostic.

 

No, that is based on the proof requirements of the scientific method. They are not mine. I am not that brilliant.

 

Yes there have. Some critical and some supportive. There are plenty that are just not answerable outside of the acceptance of the evidence as truth of the fact, that past lives are true and real. Of course, you will plaster these evidences with your doubts because you attach so much importance to these doubts of yours, making them a part of your personality.

 

Show me just one. I would like to know who was doing the investigation and what their qualifications were. And we also need to know if the investigation was observed or verified by at least one other qualified person.

 

Not true at all, there is one particularly famous story that was on Opera I think or some major talk show many years ago. Now as the kid who remembered his life as a soldier in a previous existence is all grown up and has since forgotten the memories entirely.

 

Show me.

 

Thanks... the facts don't need your permission for their existence, even if they exist from a different dimension of verifiability. Walk through the door of your consciousness Marble... find how deep awareness can go!! Meditate, suspend your beliefs and go deeper than your limiting conditions... deeper.... deeeper....

 

That is correct. The "Facts" do not need my permission. They will stand alone on their own merit.

 

Now there you go wanting me to visit different dimensions. What wrong with this one. It has served me very well so far.

 

Oh! I actually did that once. It was with the help from a bottle of Southern Comfort. I was sick when I regained consciousness.

 

Peace & Love!

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Oh! I actually did that once. It was with the help from a bottle of Southern Comfort. I was sick when I regained consciousness.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Ahhhh, the quick and easy route! Always falls flat on the face in the end though.

 

Here's a nice guy on the subject of reincarnation. I like him: http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

 

Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

 

Another one... http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnation.html

Edited August 3, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Marblehead]

You want physical proof of a dimension beyond this physical realm? :lol:

 

Okay. So it is back to imaginations again. Well enough.

 

Meditate dear Watson, Meditate! Go past your illusions into the facts!

 

You talking to me? You should be saying that to yourself. I am with the facts, it is you with the illusions.

 

There is a difference between imagination and inter-dimensional travel.

 

Hehehe. I have nothing to say to this.

 

There is proof for me. It also is a theory equal with the findings of Buddhas since ancient times.

 

The Buddha didn't know anything about M theory! You stop that crap now!

 

It's actually a very old one. I believed in this theory before I even read that scientists were into it. It's been a Buddhist theory for very long time and even a Vedic theory since even before the dawn of the agricultural period.

 

Yes, very old. Dates to 1995. You are just pretending the other stuff.

 

Nope. Scientists are just finding out what the yogi's have known for thousands of years. Consciousness is a subtler paradigm of study than dualistic scientific means. So, the yogic science of consciousness has always been light years ahead of the stoned on 5 sense type of people like yourself.

 

Oh? I am stoned? Well, you are totally wrong in this regard. Just because I don't pretend and I have no illusions about reality does not make me any less great than any of the famous people you like to talk about. And just as a passing thought, I think it was they who were eating too many mushrooms, not I.

 

There is plenty of proof hiding behind your ability to expand your own awareness through conscious meditation practice, but your awareness is too knotted up by your 5 senses as a limiting criteria to even read me properly.

 

Still...

 

Don't give me that crap. Where's the beef? You talk about all these wonderous things but you offer absolutely no proof whatsoever to support what you are claiming. Okay, so you had your visions. So did Hitler. His didn't work either.

 

So you need unty your tangles VJ. You need to get out from behind the curtain you are hiding behind and take a look at the real world. There are innocent children dying from starvation. Where is the justice in that according to any religion, not just Buddhism?

 

So you go ahead and keep hiding all the proof you have from people like me so I can never become knowledgable of all these super-wonderous things that are going on that I am too blind to see.

 

May be one day one of these great seers will submit themself and share with us poor common people of the joys to be found in staring at ones belly button for three hours a day.

 

 

 

Peace and Love to you as well Marbled one!

 

You keep trying VJ. Maybe one day you will get the courage to submit one piece of evidence to support all the things you are talking about. Until then, your opinion has no more value than mine does.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Actually, without understanding reincarnation or rebirth, nothing really makes sense. Without the fact of rebirth equated into the system of study, we are at a loss for why good things happen to bad people and vice versa, unless one would succumb to the idea that Chaos is reality. Of course some people are like, "Why does life have to make sense?" This is not good enough for me personally and never has been. So, I study, especially the nature of perception and how it's conditioned and fooled by the 5 senses. I don't identify with this body Marble, there is subtler going's on. One cannot really find out through the dualistic medium of the 5 senses which seems to be your only criteria of information. You think schizophrenics are all properly diagnosed as such? If I go to a doctor and admit to seeing beyond the 5 senses, they will plug me full of pills and dumb me down because I don't fit into their little boxes of "Normal."

 

Your box of "Normal" is too small for me.

 

Well, get the heck out of my box!!!

 

Now wait a minute though. What do you mean that nothing really makes sense? Are you really that lost without your crutch? Shame on you. I had higher regards.

 

Life and death makes perfect sense. We see it everywhere, in all plants and animals. What makes the human animal different? Only our imagination. That's about all.

 

Of course you identify with your body. Your brain, what is left of it, resides within. Without the body there would be no place for the brain to reside.

 

Oh, yes, I know. You are an eternal spirit that is temporarily taking refuse in that body that is sitting in front of that computer. You can fly off the wall any time you wish to do so. Or even through the wall. Ever try that?

 

So it is I who is being fooled by my five senses, is it? Wow! Maybe I am just a figment of someone elses imagination. No, that can't be. Who could imagine me? Just not possible.

 

I have no idea of the quality of diagnosis of schizophrenics. I don't read the medical journals.

 

No, you are not alone. There are many people who have lost touch with reality probably because they couldn't handle it so they supplimented reality with all their various forms of aids to help them make it through the day. And, like I said, if it helps it is good. It is just that I think we each and all should be aware of what illusions and delusions we are carrying around with us.

 

And so you have your imaginative view and I have my limited view but we each seem to be doing pretty good with what we have.

 

But my way is not the only 'right' way and neither is yours. They both are only 'a' way.

 

Peace & Lvoe!

[Marblehead]

Ahhhh, the quick and easy route! Always falls flat on the face in the end though.

 

Here's a nice guy on the subject of reincarnation. I like him: http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

 

Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

 

 

 

Oh! I so much like this: that appears to provide scientific proof that reincarnation is real,

 

Kinda like saying "The cat appears to be alive but we are not sure because it hasn't moved yet."

 

And he spent his whole life trying to make something appear to be scientific proof. What an accomplishment!

 

I'm going to go peek at the other one now.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Ahhhh, the quick and easy route! Always falls flat on the face in the end though.

 

Here's a nice guy on the subject of reincarnation. I like him: http://reluctant-messenger.com/reincarnation-proof.htm

 

Dr. Ian Stevenson's Life Work

 

Another one... http://www.reversespins.com/proofofreincarnation.html

 

And this lovely bit: Andrea says her mom was the first to suggest James was remembering a past life.

 

That is called indoctrination. Sometimes called brainwashing. Legally it is called 'tampering with the witness'.

 

But they are nice stories.

 

Are you ready to buy that bridge yet?

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

While you on the other hand make insulting statements, mostly just jokingly, while joining the discussion and making contributions that are generally quite interesting.

 

You don't have to agree with me in terms of why I think meditation transcends scientific findings, but you actually try to explain why you belief that science goes deeper than meditation.

 

I cannot recall ever insulting you. Oh, yes, I have insulted some of the things you have said but that is different.

 

No, no, no. I have never suggested that science goes deeper than meditaion. First of all, there is no fair comparison between the two as the operate at completely different levels of the human experience.

 

Science attempts to explain the physical world. It does a very good job.

 

Meditation has many different uses and functions. One is to clear one's mind of all the garbage they have been feed through the years.

 

I will never pit science against meditation. Both have value and both serve their proper uses.

 

I just like science, and especially the concept of cause and effect, because it serves a very useful purpose. I understand that if I walk out in front of a car my body isn't going to instantly dematerialize and nothing will happen to me. If I walk out in front of a car that is going of a sufficient speed I will likely be killed. I didn't learn that from meditating - I learned that from science and the concept of cause and effect.

 

But then, when I meditate I can find a resting place that is far better than anything science could ever come up with. So don't be making that box too small that you have placed me in. I just might kick down the sides.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Hi 3Bob,

 

Have you noticed how active your thread has been?

 

Ain't you proud of us?

 

Peace & Love!

[Pero]

This would not be in line with the Buddhas insight. Unless one were to call this substance that is at the root, ignorance.

 

As ignorance is the root of becoming, either in heaven realms or earth realms. Unless liberated, then the root is compassion.

 

Sometimes when reading pith sayings it's hard to know what is being talking about without an explanation/commentary from that master or others. (Also I seem to remember reading similar things to this in the Kunjed Gyalpo.)

Personally I think he was talking about emptiness.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Pero

[JustARandomPanda]

I wonder what the Buddha said about plants. Do they also experience craving for a Self?

[Marblehead]

I wonder what the Buddha said about plants. Do they also experience craving for a Self?

 

I have no idea but I am sure his magic mushrooms helped him out a lot.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Edit to add:

 

Yeah, the mushrooms probably had a spirit of their own.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Marblehead

[Vajrahridaya]

I cannot recall ever insulting you. Oh, yes, I have insulted some of the things you have said but that is different.

 

No, no, no. I have never suggested that science goes deeper than meditaion. First of all, there is no fair comparison between the two as the operate at completely different levels of the human experience.

 

Science attempts to explain the physical world. It does a very good job.

 

Meditation has many different uses and functions. One is to clear one's mind of all the garbage they have been feed through the years.

 

I will never pit science against meditation. Both have value and both serve their proper uses.

 

I just like science, and especially the concept of cause and effect, because it serves a very useful purpose. I understand that if I walk out in front of a car my body isn't going to instantly dematerialize and nothing will happen to me. If I walk out in front of a car that is going of a sufficient speed I will likely be killed. I didn't learn that from meditating - I learned that from science and the concept of cause and effect.

 

But then, when I meditate I can find a resting place that is far better than anything science could ever come up with. So don't be making that box too small that you have placed me in. I just might kick down the sides.

Peace & Love!

 

LOL! Ok... fair enough synopsis. I do agree with everything you've stated here.

[Vajrahridaya]

Well, get the heck out of my box!!!

 

Now wait a minute though. What do you mean that nothing really makes sense? Are you really that lost without your crutch? Shame on you. I had higher regards.

 

Life and death makes perfect sense. We see it everywhere, in all plants and animals. What makes the human animal different? Only our imagination. That's about all.

 

Of course you identify with your body. Your brain, what is left of it, resides within. Without the body there would be no place for the brain to reside.

 

Oh, yes, I know. You are an eternal spirit that is temporarily taking refuse in that body that is sitting in front of that computer. You can fly off the wall any time you wish to do so. Or even through the wall. Ever try that?

 

So it is I who is being fooled by my five senses, is it? Wow! Maybe I am just a figment of someone elses imagination. No, that can't be. Who could imagine me? Just not possible.

 

I have no idea of the quality of diagnosis of schizophrenics. I don't read the medical journals.

 

No, you are not alone. There are many people who have lost touch with reality probably because they couldn't handle it so they supplimented reality with all their various forms of aids to help them make it through the day. And, like I said, if it helps it is good. It is just that I think we each and all should be aware of what illusions and delusions we are carrying around with us.

 

And so you have your imaginative view and I have my limited view but we each seem to be doing pretty good with what we have.

 

But my way is not the only 'right' way and neither is yours. They both are only 'a' way.

 

Peace & Lvoe!

 

Wow, you're a hard core material realist. So be it!

[Vajrahridaya]

I wonder what the Buddha said about plants. Do they also experience craving for a Self?

 

Not consciously, only unconsciously. They are unconscious sentient beings. They are beings with bodies but no brains to channel energy into conscious thought patterns.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Vajrahridaya

[Vajrahridaya]

So you need unty your tangles VJ. You need to get out from behind the curtain you are hiding behind and take a look at the real world. There are innocent children dying from starvation. Where is the justice in that according to any religion, not just Buddhism?

 

Peace & Love!

 

The causes for this life occur prier to this life. So yes, the starving children have their karma from previous lives, just like the fed ones. But, that is no excuse not to help them and not to give if you can. The knowledge of past lives and karma is not an excuse for indifference. In fact, those that really experience and understand the nature of karma and re-birth show way more compassion towards the suffering of todays world than those that just use it as an excuse for their own apathy.