Qigong sucks!

[Mr.Mike]

I edited my post i don't want to put other people off from trying potentially good practises and i felt it was too personal for me to share my experiences like this.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Mr.Mike

[Sloppy Zhang]

(I know you said you're done, but I have some recommendations, if you just want those, skip down to it, I labeled it )

 

Well first of all, thanks for trying!

 

Second of all, there are a number of common effects that can explain a few things (if you believe them).

 

One of them is that some practices bring all your shit to the surface. This is one of the things kunlun is designed to do. There were a TON of Kunlun threads, and a LOT of them were 30-40+ pages. The one where Yoda shared his experiences was interesting. But there are a few people who came forward to give really good experiences. So, part of Kunlun in particular is it's designed to be FAST.... which can cut both ways if you aren't ready for it.

 

So, I'd say you kinda got a bum deal by starting with Kunlun. Especially as a first go because.... well, as you can tell, experiences are extreme, both good and bad. And extreme isn't always what you want from the start.

 

Another aspect is starting to get sick after doing the practice. This again, is because part of qigong is you getting to feel your body and the stuff that's inside. A lot of times, we are sick and we don't even know it. Kind of like if you're running through the woods, and get your arms and legs cut up by briers. You don't notice it when you're running, but when you cool down, and look at your body, you start to feel the stinging cuts all over.

 

Qigong is about slowing down, and taking stock of things. So if you start to feel like shit, it may just be you've ALWAYS felt like this, but just didn't know it.

 

Of course, if it persists for a while, do stop and get some professional to take a look (western medicine or TCM doctor), as well as not returning to the practices for a while.

 

 

I don't know much about Spring Forest qigong, but some of the stuff seems pretty advanced- even for the introductory levels. A lot of people might disagree, but assuming you're an absolute beginner, it might just be a tad too much.

 

Also, doing new things, like reverse breathing, might be strange because you aren't used to it.

 

Falun Gong, also don't know much about- it's fairly controversial politically, but from what (little) I've read of the practices, they don't seem that bad.

 

Okay, I know you said you'd stop.... but, I still have a few recommendations.

 

 

RECOMMENDATIONS

 

I highly suggest you get the book "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by B.K. Frantzis. He teaches a very important "dissolving technique", which basically teaches you how to identify and get rid of blockages. Why is this important? Because if you start running energy through your body before it is clear, you are going to run into problems. This method teaches you some very important lessons, from body alignments, to important energy centers, to how to deal with problems BEFORE they arise.

 

Also, it is geared to the COMPLETE BEGINNER. Frantzis keeps the information solid, the techniques useful, and the energy LOW.

 

I think what happened is you started to get too much energy too fast. At first it felt good, but later caused problems because you didn't know how to handle it or weren't used to it. Frantzis' book will teach you how to manage it.

 

For some good theory and background, as well as a few other exercises, get "Relaxing Into Your Being" and "The Great Stillness".

 

If you want a form, "Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong" is a great book, and he just came out with a DVD to run through the form.

 

 

The only downside with Frantzis' material, is it's low impact, low energy, and completely geared towards the beginner (so if you've read up on the subject before hand, some of the stuff may sound a bit repetitive). HOWEVER, the things he taught are CRUCIAL exercises, and are, in my experience, UNIVERSAL.

 

You may upgrade to a higher energy system once you get a hold of the basics, but when you have a problem, you will go back to those basics to help you fix it. (so stuff like microcosmic orbit is considered a more "advanced" skill, and reversed breathing isn't even touched until you can breathe normally for a good chunk of time, like, a 20 second breath, ten seconds in, ten seconds out, but relaxed the whole time.... and some people teach MCO and reverse breath from the start, so there's some perspective).

 

 

 

 

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you have fun. I think you did a lot of things right- stopping when things felt wrong. That was smart.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[h.uriahr]

Hi.

 

I can see a problem right from the start in regards to SFQ. I dont have the book but I have the MCO cd. He doesnt say to do reverse breathing.

[Spectrum]

is this solo or with another person?

[Seth Ananda]

I agree with Sloppy on Opening the energy gates being a superb intro.

 

Also the pressure in the head after practice, according to Li Hongzhi, is your chi energy being pushed out of your body as its replaced by Falun energy. To me what they call Falun energy is no different to Heavenly Qi, although they spat chips when I said that to them. But still, most people experience those sensations at first when doing Falun.

I Still think Falun is great, its just a pity the founder is a Nut bar, and the Members are Fanatics (most of them I met any way). Fanatics cant enter into two way conversations unfortunately.

 

My other Love has been Zhineng which is very gentle but has plenty of capacity to get mind blowing as you are ready... I think in the USA its called Chi-lel?

 

 

Actually off thread, I think someone here said part of both those systems are in or were taken from Wang Liping's system? anyone got details?

 

Seth.

[Mr.Mike]

Sloppy: thanks that opening the energy gates actually sounds pretty good.

 

MPWay: It's the active exercise not the sitting, he says that you should draw your stomach in when you breath in and let it out when you breath out.

That is reverse breathing yes?

Anyway the whole concept just seems stupid and unnatural maybe i should start walking backwards too..

 

Spectrum: If you mean i'm doing the qigong solo then yes, why does it matter?

 

Seth: Ok if the headache happens to a lot of people in the beginning then maybe i will give Falun another go since that was the only negative side-effect i experienced from Falun Gong.

 

I do and did feel pretty damn good when i only meditate and lift weights at the gym.

Starting with qigong was just a way to keep myself healthy and maybe get some more energy but that didn't happen so..

Edited July 26, 2010 by Mr.Mike

[Sloppy Zhang]

Spectrum: If you mean i'm doing the qigong solo then yes, why does it matter?

 

Well, the thing about teachers is that they can correct your posture, tell you exactly how to do a technique, road signs to look out for so you know you're doing it right, danger signs to look for if you start doing it wrong, and they can recommend fixes for any problems you are having.

 

When I started qigong, I wasn't in an area with too many great teachers. Once I got to college, I found that time + cost of travel + constant cost of classes was a bit too much for me. With a book/DVD, it's a one time payment that you make, and, if you do research and find good materials, that one book can last you a LONG time (if you really get in and try to master every little detail).

 

On top of that, I believe that, if qigong really works the way it's supposed to, then it should work even if you are learning without a teacher- after all, we all have a human body. The originators of these qigong sets discovered them by listening to the body, stilling the mind, observing the way energy naturally flows, and then going along with that. Before someone realized there was the MCO, people weren't leading energy through it. Someone stilled their mind, and felt that their energy started to flow in a certain way. They felt energy pass through large and small energy centers of the body. They felt it flow through the meridians. And in some cases, they stuck needles in people to figure out what would happen (not recommended!)

 

So basically, if you still the mind, listen, and let the energy go where it needs, rather than you trying to direct the energy, then you should be relatively safe, even on your own. Rather than making energy go somewhere, just notice where it goes. In some cases, you can pay special attention to where the energy is flowing, and gently ease the energy through there, but you should avoid trying to make the energy go there.

 

I find that the methods B.K. Frantzis teaches go along with that philosophy. I've had some great successes just with what he teaches in the book. Still the mind, and listen. Feel (for extra lessons, see Star Wars ) But really. When you LET things happen, and you RELAX, a lot of good things happen, and a lot of problems associated with qigong can easily be avoided.

 

And if you're studying on your own, you can make stead, but safe, progress.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[RiverSnake]

When i started doing Chi Kung i got that pain in my forehead as well. It was really annoying but tolerable, the first day was the worst and then i got used to it. I even made a post about it. However, maybe you experienced something different. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14514-my-third-eye-was-going-crazy/page__hl__My%20Third%20eye%20is%20going%20crazy

 

 

-I was practicing ZZ from the book the Way of Energy: it's about as simple as it gets.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Tao Apprentice

[NeiChuan]

Its not for Everyone. you could probably try and move on with your life though.

[Encephalon]

(I know you said you're done, but I have some recommendations, if you just want those, skip down to it, I labeled it )

 

Well first of all, thanks for trying!

 

Second of all, there are a number of common effects that can explain a few things (if you believe them).

 

One of them is that some practices bring all your shit to the surface. This is one of the things kunlun is designed to do. There were a TON of Kunlun threads, and a LOT of them were 30-40+ pages. The one where Yoda shared his experiences was interesting. But there are a few people who came forward to give really good experiences. So, part of Kunlun in particular is it's designed to be FAST.... which can cut both ways if you aren't ready for it.

 

So, I'd say you kinda got a bum deal by starting with Kunlun. Especially as a first go because.... well, as you can tell, experiences are extreme, both good and bad. And extreme isn't always what you want from the start.

 

Another aspect is starting to get sick after doing the practice. This again, is because part of qigong is you getting to feel your body and the stuff that's inside. A lot of times, we are sick and we don't even know it. Kind of like if you're running through the woods, and get your arms and legs cut up by briers. You don't notice it when you're running, but when you cool down, and look at your body, you start to feel the stinging cuts all over.

 

Qigong is about slowing down, and taking stock of things. So if you start to feel like shit, it may just be you've ALWAYS felt like this, but just didn't know it.

 

Of course, if it persists for a while, do stop and get some professional to take a look (western medicine or TCM doctor), as well as not returning to the practices for a while.

 

 

I don't know much about Spring Forest qigong, but some of the stuff seems pretty advanced- even for the introductory levels. A lot of people might disagree, but assuming you're an absolute beginner, it might just be a tad too much.

 

Also, doing new things, like reverse breathing, might be strange because you aren't used to it.

 

Falun Gong, also don't know much about- it's fairly controversial politically, but from what (little) I've read of the practices, they don't seem that bad.

 

Okay, I know you said you'd stop.... but, I still have a few recommendations.

 

 

RECOMMENDATIONS

 

I highly suggest you get the book "Opening the Energy Gates of Your Body" by B.K. Frantzis. He teaches a very important "dissolving technique", which basically teaches you how to identify and get rid of blockages. Why is this important? Because if you start running energy through your body before it is clear, you are going to run into problems. This method teaches you some very important lessons, from body alignments, to important energy centers, to how to deal with problems BEFORE they arise.

 

Also, it is geared to the COMPLETE BEGINNER. Frantzis keeps the information solid, the techniques useful, and the energy LOW.

 

I think what happened is you started to get too much energy too fast. At first it felt good, but later caused problems because you didn't know how to handle it or weren't used to it. Frantzis' book will teach you how to manage it.

 

For some good theory and background, as well as a few other exercises, get "Relaxing Into Your Being" and "The Great Stillness".

 

If you want a form, "Dragon and Tiger Medical Qigong" is a great book, and he just came out with a DVD to run through the form.

 

 

The only downside with Frantzis' material, is it's low impact, low energy, and completely geared towards the beginner (so if you've read up on the subject before hand, some of the stuff may sound a bit repetitive). HOWEVER, the things he taught are CRUCIAL exercises, and are, in my experience, UNIVERSAL.

 

You may upgrade to a higher energy system once you get a hold of the basics, but when you have a problem, you will go back to those basics to help you fix it. (so stuff like microcosmic orbit is considered a more "advanced" skill, and reversed breathing isn't even touched until you can breathe normally for a good chunk of time, like, a 20 second breath, ten seconds in, ten seconds out, but relaxed the whole time.... and some people teach MCO and reverse breath from the start, so there's some perspective).

 

Whatever you decide to do, I hope you have fun. I think you did a lot of things right- stopping when things felt wrong. That was smart.

 

 

Sound advice there, SZ. I would concur with everything, especially about how your personal shit comes up with these practices. After all they are body/Mind disciplines. And starting with "Opening the Energy Gates of the Body" is really good advice. I wish I would purchased this one first; it would have kept me from overheating in typical westerner style.

[johndoe2012]

I would recommend Way of Energy by Lam Kam Chuen. It teaches you Zhan Zhuang in a safe way with normal abdominal breathing.

 

Maybe work on your virtue also. I think a book on Buddha's Noble 8 fold path is fine to introduce you to karma, compassion etc. You can find it here.

[Starjumper]

Qigong sucks! Or is it just me?

 

No, it's not just you. You can count the number of good chi kung systems in this country on the fingers of one hand and have a couple of fingers left over.

 

The Way of Energy is a best book, I recommend it.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Starjumper7

[gendao]

I edited my post i don't want to put other people off from trying potentially good practises and i felt it was too personal for me to share my experiences like this.

That's too bad - cuz you are not alone.

 

See tapas & mishaps...

Edited July 26, 2010 by vortex

[mYTHmAKER]

I edited my post i don't want to put other people off from trying potentially good practises and i felt it was too personal for me to share my experiences like this.

 

Missed the unedited post.

i would suggest - as i always do - find a teacher.

otherwise the Way of Energy by Lam Kam Chuen is a good place to start . A teacher in person is best.

Edited July 26, 2010 by mYTHmAKER

[Raymond Wolter]

Hi Mike,

 

I come from mind-only meditation, Theravada/Tibetan Buddhism backgrounds and took to Qigong recently, mainly for health benefits.

 

I practice Kunlun along with Spring Forest Qigong and have found the combination to be wonderful. I feel energized all through the day and need less sleep. This helps me meditate more and makes Vipassana easier. As suggested by a very helpful Kunlun instructor on this board, I separate the two practices and do them at different times.

 

My frustration initially has been that of nothing dramatic happening, LOL. Over a period of time, I have changed this expectation of something needed to happen to simply letting go, being aware and let the energy wash through. Though nothing dramatic by Kunlun standards is still happening, I can care much less as I see clear benefits in my day to day life. I do both SFQ and Kunlun, so I can't comment on which one is helping me, or the combination of both, but I definitely notice a sense of upliftment in every aspect of everyday living. Not much of an advice or a tip but just a note to keep you inspired. Good luck!

 

Raymond

[altiora]

I understand where the initiator of this post is coming from. Had the same experience with Zhineng qigong. Don't get me wrong, it's an excellent system. But I found it just exacerbated my ungroundedness making it hard to focus and get that fire in the belly going.

 

The problem I think resides in the fact that originally there weren't really, prepackaged, "systems" as we now know it: the teacher would create a programme that suits your constitution. Of course, the problem is finding a properly qualified teacher and (especially difficult for a westerner)just doing exactly what that teacher says.

 

Agree with Sloppy Zhang that Frantzis "Opening the Energy Gates" is a great start. But must take issue with Sloppy Zhang's comment that the exercises there are just "low energy" and that later one should "upgrade to a higher system". Frantzis' standing dissolving practice will take a life time to really understand; and indeed some qigong masters did/do nothing but stand. With all systems its a matter of application, application, application.

 

Get Frantzis' cheap DVD first and practice along with the book. I've come to Frantzis' system after over a decade in other qigong systems, and quite frankly think I'm likely to keep this practice for a very long time. His swings are just fantastic at work for a quick qigong workout. It's funny: when I started qigong, I saw Frantzis' system early on but dismissed it on the basis that it was "too simple". Now I arrive at square 1 again with the benefit of a beginner's mind.

 

Also I'd recommend his "Longevity Breathing" system. There are several CDs, including the "Ancient SOngs of the Tao" that run through the breathing system. Breathing is an aspect that seems not to get much attention from qigong practitioners, compared to pranayama and yoga practitioners.

 

I'm busy with that programme since it's mid winter here in New Zealand, and it's just divine for sitting under a warm meditation shawl with a hot water bottle. Truly a great practice for a hibernating, yin, body, and during the early mornings and late night. Add a few yin yoga stretches to rough it up a bit.

[Sloppy Zhang]

Agree with Sloppy Zhang that Frantzis "Opening the Energy Gates" is a great start. But must take issue with Sloppy Zhang's comment that the exercises there are just "low energy" and that later one should "upgrade to a higher system". Frantzis' standing dissolving practice will take a life time to really understand; and indeed some qigong masters did/do nothing but stand. With all systems its a matter of application, application, application.

 

I agree. Sorry if it came across otherwise in a previous post.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang