Teacher Presence, Radiating Energy...

[Sloppy Zhang]

So a big deal that a lot of people make a lot of the time when it comes to learning, is learning from a teacher. And a big part of why this is important isn't just for the technical details that the teacher can provide, and physical corrections, but on the "powerful energy workings" that the teacher can perform directly on the student, and how the student, merely by being in his (or her) presence, can feel this energy and be oh so amazed.

 

It's why you just can't learn "the real stuff" from a book or a DVD.

 

Now I've always been just a bit too out of range, and always a bit too underfunded, to ever get a chance to get any of the "real stuff". I've been learning from books/DVDs since I started. Now I consider myself a pretty motivated person. I don't just read the stuff. I study it. I really make it my own.

 

And there's one thing that I've always thought: if this stuff is "real", if this universal energy actually exists, if these physical alignments really work, well, they should work regardless if a teacher gives me some energy juice to "start me up". Why? Well, by virtue of the fact that I'm a living, breathing human being. I got all the right parts. So it should work for me, right?

 

And in general, this has worked out pretty good for me. Actually, just to prevent any subsequent confusion: this has always worked out for me.

 

I started with the martial arts. All I had were crap McDojos. So I got a DVD. I was met with all this "oh well you can't ever learn REAL stuff from a DVD." And, I'm not a pro MMA fighter. I'm not a super ninja master. But I'm a pretty decent fighter, I can hold my own against people who put in a lot more training that I do, and I've successfully defended myself in a few encounters. All from my DVD home study material. Just looking at it, copying what I see, figuring out how my own body responded, figuring out how it would apply anatomically, testing it out, then going back to the basics.

 

This carried on over in qigong. I wasn't sure if qi was real, or if it was just a metaphor. But I figured, if it is real, I should have the capacity to feel it whether or not I have someone initiate me, right? It actually seems kinda fishy if you can only feel it if someone else gives it to you.... at least, that's how I saw it. Same with body alignments (which was another argument that the MAists made for why you can't learn from a DVD, because you don't have someone to correct you). I started out trying to figure out just how to get my spine straight. How do I bend from the kwa? How do I sink the shoulders and round the back, but without slouching?

 

I think I figured these all out reasonably well, because when it felt wrong, I didn't do it, and went back to the books/DVD's. Tinkered around a bit, until I found an alignment that felt good and looked like what I was seeing. And then I started to feel something. Qi? I dunno, maybe. Then I started to feel stuff from other people. Occasionally an animal, or a place. I'm not some ascended immortal. But I've had, and continue to have, some experiences. Some are good. Some are bad. I try not to judge. But stuff is happening.

 

 

The point is, I just don't know if I buy the whole you must learn from a teacher in person.

 

There are a lot of quality guys putting some quality material out there in book/DVD/audio/whatever format. Experience, I think, should be the initiator.

 

When you get punched in the face when you mess up a block, your body learns very quickly how to angle that block- no need to travel 2 and a half hours to get some great master to tell you to change the angle.

 

When you slip into the proper alignment, and your body feels unified and energized, and you can feel everything around you, that's how you know you've got the juice. I don't know if I need to travel 18 hours just so I can get someone to tell me to close my eyes so they can wave their hands around my mind, all the while telling me what they're doing and asking if I feel anything (which is kinda similar to stage magic suggestion anyway....)

 

 

I don't know what this is. A rant? A question?

 

I just feel like, as human beings, we all have the capability. If you got something you want to teach, or if there's something you want to learn.... why does everyone insist on this "in person" business? If you got the internet, youtube lets you upload videos for free. There are any number of free blogging services out there which will let you write anything you want on there.

 

It just seems to me that if you want to teach people, drop this whole "in person" business. Say what you want to say. Show what you want to show. A genuine person who genuinely wants to learn will accumulate their own genuine experiences without you having to wave your hands over them.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[DarthBane]

I think this was way too much for my limited mind I think. But great post anyway

 

pink light

[Sloppy Zhang]

Yeah, after I posted it I noticed it was kinda long. I type pretty fast though, so it didn't seem that long as I was writing it.

 

Oh well.

[mjjbecker]

Self analysis of what you are doing is a very important part of any practice. It looks like you do this well, and that is a very good thing.

 

On the most basic level, a teacher is there to correct the students mistakes. With the best will in the world we all make them. Recently an osteopath friend of mine pointed out a problem with how I hold my shoulders, and how this could effect an old injury. It was a simple point, but one I had not noticed myself. I may have noticed it eventually, but having him point it out has at the very least saved me some time.

 

Regarding energy transmissions, well, you just have to experience it. There is nothing I can say that is going to give you that experience and therefore some understanding of it. Certainly people can do very well with qigong and never have this kind of help. The more important factor is the individual and their innate natural ability to reach whatever stage.

 

If you're happy with what you are doing, there isn't any need to defend it, or argue that another opinion impinges on your own. The world is a vast and diverse place and there is far too much comparing of dick lengths on this forum. Live and let live. Differing opinions aren't a reason for pistols at dawn.

[Spectrum]

Time to get wet. It's ok now notice how your feet stick to the bottom if you allow yourself to sink slightly, while maintaining central aLighnment. You'll notice as you move horizontally if you bob up and down you'll end up floating and loosing your footing having to resettle, but if your very careful, you will feel how sinking allows you to reverse direction turn corners and generally defy gravity all while casually walking to the far end of the pool, underwater.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Spectrum

[Vajrasattva]

Self analysis of what you are doing is a very important part of any practice. It looks like you do this well, and that is a very good thing.

 

On the most basic level, a teacher is there to correct the students mistakes. With the best will in the world we all make them. Recently an osteopath friend of mine pointed out a problem with how I hold my shoulders, and how this could effect an old injury. It was a simple point, but one I had not noticed myself. I may have noticed it eventually, but having him point it out has at the very least saved me some time.

 

Regarding energy transmissions, well, you just have to experience it. There is nothing I can say that is going to give you that experience and therefore some understanding of it. Certainly people can do very well with qigong and never have this kind of help. The more important factor is the individual and their innate natural ability to reach whatever stage.

 

If you're happy with what you are doing, there isn't any need to defend it, or argue that another opinion impinges on your own. The world is a vast and diverse place and there is far too much comparing of dick lengths on this forum. Live and let live. Differing opinions aren't a reason for pistols at dawn.

 

 

: ) becareful bro you may get banned for saying "Dick" : )

[Spectrum]

By the Way

[DarthBane]

: ) becareful bro you may get banned for saying "Dick" : )

 

Dwoes that mean I could be banned for using the term "nuts" elsewhwhere?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Guest

[C T]

Teachers... if one finds the right one, its a blessing. The good Teachers embody one's higher spiritual aspirations. When they induct its like you are doing it to yourself. Often when one gets a glimpse of one's true nature, the Teacher will say, "Now let it go...". By that he/she is also implying to let the 'teacher' go as well. They take no credit. To them its like just another day at the office... That is their role, to let you get a glimpse of what it is to be at rest - complete, profound and simple resting, without any need for contrivance nor verbal articulations.

 

Of course for every good Teacher, there are dozens of businesspeople disguised as such.

The only energy they radiate is the energy of greed.

 

Some Teachers teach without you knowing it.

Your realizations could be from one of these who work for you behind the scenes, and in different forms.

Its wise to acknowledge this, for someday, who knows, you too will become a good Teacher.

Then you will understand the price good Teachers pay to remain at the highest level of integrity and goodness.

You will also understand why you would want to impart your profound insights to others.

Not because others are lame, and need you, but simply because good teaching, and teaching goodness, becomes you.

 

 

 

[Ya Mu]

So a big deal that a lot of people make a lot of the time when it comes to learning, is learning from a teacher. And a big part of why this is important isn't just for the technical details that the teacher can provide, and physical corrections, but on the "powerful energy workings" that the teacher can perform directly on the student, and how the student, merely by being in his (or her) presence, can feel this energy and be oh so amazed.

....

I really want to root for your point of view. I sell qigong DVD's.

 

I will share what I have seen.

Many folks have learned qigong from my Gift of Tao DVD's. Their reports of experiences are quite thrilling and inspiring.

 

After a year or so of practice some of these folks attend a workshop. What they tell me after they have gone home and practiced the moves more is that the feeling of qi has increased by a large factor (actually an exponential factor). The experiences are deeper and the connection with Spirit is much deeper.

 

The real answer to this is pointed out by mjjbecker in his post.

I always say it as "Depends on who you are."

In other words, either a person has a certain sensitivity and IMO and experience this sensitivity is dependent on how many lifetimes they have done similar things or gained in knowledge through harmonious acts, or the person does not. This is the energy body we are referring to.

 

So what happens is the person described first, the one with many lifetimes accumulation, can do quite well with a DVD or a book. I have had many of these type of people learn to do Stillness-Movement from my book. Many of these also say they felt a Transmission from the book. Attending a workshop later raises their energy body vibration much higher and boosts the efficiency of the qi because the student is then able to tap into much higher vibrational levels.

 

The second type of person really has difficulty learning from a DVD or book. The jump start that a Teacher can give them is actually totally amazing.

 

Usually, the first type of person described goes on to attend classes anyway because they see the intense value in a particular system and wish to go deeper with it. But for self healing, if this person (first type) practices it with time & effort, he/she can do quite well and never need to see the teacher.

 

If any person wishes to heal others with qi projection, then either type is usually messing up big time by going on his/her own without a teachers input.

 

And like mjjbecker said, the experience and value of the transmission is really something that one has to experience themselves. And Sloppy, it is not about "being amazed" by the Teacher but instead it is about the Teacher's help in raising your own vibrational frequency for yourself Also, from what I have seen, receiving the projection from a high level teacher can cut many years of time needed to reach a higher stage in development, whether they are the first or 2nd type I describe above.

 

edit: in bold

Edited July 28, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Marblehead]

So a big deal that a lot of people make a lot of the time when it comes to learning, is learning from a teacher.

 

Yeah, it was a long post so I summarized it, Okay?

 

An example supporting teachers and learning:

 

Many years ago I was involved in a course of study that required successful completion of College Algebra. My base of knowledge was zero as I had failed high school algebra.

 

I enrolled in the three part series for College Algebra. No compute! Had to drop out.

 

Tried again with a different instructor. Same thing. Had to drop our.

 

No. I didn't give up. Tried again with still another instructor.

 

Success!!!!! Aced all three levels! And not only that, I took Statistics while I was taking College Algebra and aced it as well.

 

The point I make here is that we each have our own way of learning properly. Some thing we can easily learn by trial and error. Other things we can learn just by watching someone else do what we want to learn. Other thing we must have the 'right' teacher in order to learn.

 

Although I often speak against dogma I really don't intent to down-play the importance of having the 'right' teacher for what we wish to learn.

 

So I will agree with you in that sometimes we don't really need a teacher but in other areas of life we do. And it is important that, if we decide we need a teacher, we select a teacher who can teach the way we learn. Some teachers have a excellent knowledge of their subject but they do not have the ability to teach certain types of students. We, the student must decide which teacher will do us the most good.

 

Peace & Love!

[Sloppy Zhang]

The frog in the well knows not of the great ocean...

 

If we were born in the ocean, do we really need someone to show it to us?

[mjjbecker]

: ) becareful bro you may get banned for saying "Dick" : )

 

We don't want anyone going off half-cocked here. Too easy for people to get overly excited and have a dickie fit.

 

Always thought the role of moderators was to facilitate, rather than to issue diktats. Even the obvious cock and bull stories should be handled thoughtfully.

 

When I was once a moderator I had to deal with someone who claimed to have sex with dolphins. Bugger that, as they say. Something smelled rather fishy about his claims. One can easily clam up when confronted with such behaviour. Didn't want him lingering around though, so I banned him. Gave him the chop proper. Non of this fumbling around. Some complained, but the thrust of my point was such that in such circumstances, one cannot hold back.

 

Penetrating insight into the human condition is a useful tool. Hesitation, or premature conclusions should be avoided. Timing is important. In the heat of the moment, each ejaculation should be judged accordingly.

 

Moderation is just that. Too little and one gets frustrated and pent up with the retention. Too much and it can be draining to the body, mind and soul.

 

If anyone got overly excited at the use of the word 'ejaculation', I suggest you reach for your dictionary.

 

[Marblehead]

Nope. I didn't get excited. I just wonder why you left out about the sea captain who was a Master Baiter.

 

Peace & Love!

[mjjbecker]

Nope. I didn't get excited. I just wonder why you left out about the sea captain who was a Master Baiter.

 

Peace & Love!

 

I didn't want to get into Master Baites, Seaman Staines or Roger the cabin boy. A bit too salty for me.

 

I also realise that some people come to a conclusion prematurely, which can be very frustrating for them.

[Starjumper]

That was good! Can you work pecker tracks into a sentence?

 

Concerning radiating energy, it makes the progress of the student much faster. Without the extra energy people end up just doing the exercises on a physical level for a long time, several to many years is common, but with the addition of the extra energy while they are doing the form then the energy boosts their own work, makes it more productive, and they get to skip ahead quite quickly with the results of their practice.

 

Someone without a high energy teacher (which is most teachers) could still get to the same place of high energy but it takes much more work and much longer, and people are less likely to get there.

 

Only a teacher with high energy can do this (radiate a lot of energy WHILE they are doing the form) and the reason they can do this is because their teacher did it for them. In my system the teacher also additionally boosts the energy of the student and does energy work on each one individually while they are in sitting or standing meditation, which is done after the moving part.

 

Edit: another thing is that when you get blastid with energy you begin to comprehend what is possible and can reach for the stars.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Starjumper7

[Spectrum]

A convection wave is a neat way to describe a masters ma who projects some wa wa.

 

There is no limit to letting go, you can only get so hard, but there's no limit to relaxation.

 

Having a guide is invaluable, like learning to play the guitar alone or having someone right there to help you along. The essense of the energetic fingerprints can not be transmitted through any medium other than presence. How else can you feel the texture of a movement. Oral tradition will be lost on a mass scale this generation. It is important to make a distinction between sources of iformation.

 

Ya mu brings up a nice point on presenting information in one medium and then meeting face to face to be present. I think this is closer to the truth, as personal accountability and travel instills a sense of commitment, the pilgrimage or journey commits the practitioner to a sense of Feedback to states and progresses.

 

In relationship to extra energy, there is the location, the other people, the teacher and you. Four parts to the perfect move. I've trained in china town locations so tenured by continual practice that as soon as you get close to the kwon you 'feel' practice starting... inside is like feeling the walls have memory. Like wise I've been around teachers who leech from their students and capitalize on their weeknesses, not helping them be a more coordinated individual.

 

From my perspective it comes to Sources of information.... What source do u plug into when u stand, what source when u go to the kwon, what sources when you practice outside.

 

This flow state, share the flow state, and people will fall in love while you show them how to stand on their own two feet!

Edited July 28, 2010 by Spectrum

[voidisyinyang]

So a big deal that a lot of people make a lot of the time when it comes to learning, is learning from a teacher. And a big part of why this is important isn't just for the technical details that the teacher can provide, and physical corrections, but on the "powerful energy workings" that the teacher can perform directly on the student, and how the student, merely by being in his (or her) presence, can feel this energy and be oh so amazed.

 

It's why you just can't learn "the real stuff" from a book or a DVD.

 

Now I've always been just a bit too out of range, and always a bit too underfunded, to ever get a chance to get any of the "real stuff". I've been learning from books/DVDs since I started. Now I consider myself a pretty motivated person. I don't just read the stuff. I study it. I really make it my own.

 

And there's one thing that I've always thought: if this stuff is "real", if this universal energy actually exists, if these physical alignments really work, well, they should work regardless if a teacher gives me some energy juice to "start me up". Why? Well, by virtue of the fact that I'm a living, breathing human being. I got all the right parts. So it should work for me, right?

 

And in general, this has worked out pretty good for me. Actually, just to prevent any subsequent confusion: this has always worked out for me.

 

I started with the martial arts. All I had were crap McDojos. So I got a DVD. I was met with all this "oh well you can't ever learn REAL stuff from a DVD." And, I'm not a pro MMA fighter. I'm not a super ninja master. But I'm a pretty decent fighter, I can hold my own against people who put in a lot more training that I do, and I've successfully defended myself in a few encounters. All from my DVD home study material. Just looking at it, copying what I see, figuring out how my own body responded, figuring out how it would apply anatomically, testing it out, then going back to the basics.

 

This carried on over in qigong. I wasn't sure if qi was real, or if it was just a metaphor. But I figured, if it is real, I should have the capacity to feel it whether or not I have someone initiate me, right? It actually seems kinda fishy if you can only feel it if someone else gives it to you.... at least, that's how I saw it. Same with body alignments (which was another argument that the MAists made for why you can't learn from a DVD, because you don't have someone to correct you). I started out trying to figure out just how to get my spine straight. How do I bend from the kwa? How do I sink the shoulders and round the back, but without slouching?

 

I think I figured these all out reasonably well, because when it felt wrong, I didn't do it, and went back to the books/DVD's. Tinkered around a bit, until I found an alignment that felt good and looked like what I was seeing. And then I started to feel something. Qi? I dunno, maybe. Then I started to feel stuff from other people. Occasionally an animal, or a place. I'm not some ascended immortal. But I've had, and continue to have, some experiences. Some are good. Some are bad. I try not to judge. But stuff is happening.

 

 

The point is, I just don't know if I buy the whole you must learn from a teacher in person.

 

There are a lot of quality guys putting some quality material out there in book/DVD/audio/whatever format. Experience, I think, should be the initiator.

 

When you get punched in the face when you mess up a block, your body learns very quickly how to angle that block- no need to travel 2 and a half hours to get some great master to tell you to change the angle.

 

When you slip into the proper alignment, and your body feels unified and energized, and you can feel everything around you, that's how you know you've got the juice. I don't know if I need to travel 18 hours just so I can get someone to tell me to close my eyes so they can wave their hands around my mind, all the while telling me what they're doing and asking if I feel anything (which is kinda similar to stage magic suggestion anyway....)

 

 

I don't know what this is. A rant? A question?

 

I just feel like, as human beings, we all have the capability. If you got something you want to teach, or if there's something you want to learn.... why does everyone insist on this "in person" business? If you got the internet, youtube lets you upload videos for free. There are any number of free blogging services out there which will let you write anything you want on there.

 

It just seems to me that if you want to teach people, drop this whole "in person" business. Say what you want to say. Show what you want to show. A genuine person who genuinely wants to learn will accumulate their own genuine experiences without you having to wave your hands over them.

 

 

The West is focused on material reality -- so while posture is critical, this focus on alignment, etc. can often be limiting. For example the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" also focuses on material reality but on the critical key to sublimate and store up the jing life force energy.

 

What happens is that in the presence of a teacher you are getting direct shakti transmissions -- the light energy. This light energy can, through personal practice, be built upon and increased, but the key secret has to be the continued sublimation and purification of the jing energy. So many people will get the shakti transmission but then "waste" it on mundane life force activities.

 

The issue is not just your own personal practice but the external energy influences which then affect your practice. That's why traditionally to be a qigong master you first have to do the physical martial arts training because the male has to be able to physically have their own independence -- to first fight off any other people who want to feed off their energy -- physically, emotionally, spiritually, etc.

 

Even just posting online -- if you have built up your energy then you're automatically going to attract people who have a lower level energy who want to feed off your energy and so will make comments, etc. based on their own subconscious attraction to your energy. In other words their left brain thinks they're in control of their energy and so they choose to make low grade comments, etc. which appear to be at a "higher" level of energy -- but in fact their left brain is subconsciously controlled by their right brain electromagnetic spiritual energy still stuck in their lower chakras.

 

So while martial arts training is very difficult the training and exercise of mind control -- internal martial arts -- is even more difficult. The shaolin training texts will state this outright -- that internal mind training is harder than physical training.

 

Again the secret is not just physical alignment but the continual transformation of the physical into the light or laser energy via the electrochemical emotional energy of the internal organs. But, more so, is the ability to store up the electromagnetic energy in the lower body -- without external forces feeding off any accumulated electromagnetic energy that is created.

 

The other alternative is that once you are able to create an open system of external energy transmission through the mind -- the middle of the brain as the pineal gland third eye transmissions -- then you can transmit external energy while also taking in external energy as jing energy. This is the great secret of tantra -- it's taboo because again you're dealing with the subconscious life force energy and how to transform it back into the laser energy. This practice doesn't build up and store your energy internally but it does keep the energy harmonized and flowing as an impersonal reality of energy transformation. Ultimately the energy is impersonal -- not to be stored and accumulated as a personal power experience.

 

So the key is can you store up enough electromagnetic energy to turn it into enough shen or laser energy (biophotons) that will finally open up the middle of the brain. A real energy master will transmit the shakti energy to the center of your brain to help you in your own training so that permanent middle of the brain opening can take place. Otherwise it does take a lot of stored up jing energy to create enough chi energy to create enough shen energy -- besides even understanding how these transformations take place. Again I recommend studying the book "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality" for the subtle relations between the jing, chi and shen since while the physical alignments are always critical there are other factors about how the mind energy transforms the internal organ emotional energy. This is the "small universe" practice as the foundation for the internal martial arts training and then it works into the full lotus pyramid power for the external transmissions.

[三江源]

We don't want anyone going off half-cocked here. Too easy for people to get overly excited and have a dickie fit.

 

Always thought the role of moderators was to facilitate, rather than to issue diktats. Even the obvious cock and bull stories should be handled thoughtfully.

 

When I was once a moderator I had to deal with someone who claimed to have sex with dolphins. Bugger that, as they say. Something smelled rather fishy about his claims. One can easily clam up when confronted with such behaviour. Didn't want him lingering around though, so I banned him. Gave him the chop proper. Non of this fumbling around. Some complained, but the thrust of my point was such that in such circumstances, one cannot hold back.

 

Penetrating insight into the human condition is a useful tool. Hesitation, or premature conclusions should be avoided. Timing is important. In the heat of the moment, each ejaculation should be judged accordingly.

 

Moderation is just that. Too little and one gets frustrated and pent up with the retention. Too much and it can be draining to the body, mind and soul.

 

If anyone got overly excited at the use of the word 'ejaculation', I suggest you reach for your dictionary.

 

 

Quite so, in fact you could say that

not wanting to rub people up the wrong way inevitably leads to beating round the bush and you really have to be standing to attention to hammer the point home before the moment has passed.

 

as it were.

[Tao99]

.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Tao99

[mjjbecker]

That was good! Can you work pecker tracks into a sentence?

 

No, but the 'Urban Dictionary' does provide an example. Made me think of you when I read it.

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pecker+track

 

(TO OTHER MEMBERS-DO NOT CLICK ON THIS LINK IF CRUDE AND OFFENSIVE SEXUAL SLANG IS LIKELY TO OFFEND YOU)

[mjjbecker]

Quite so, in fact you could say that

not wanting to rub people up the wrong way inevitably leads to beating round the bush and you really have to be standing to attention to hammer the point home before the moment has passed.

 

as it were.

 

Outstanding

[三江源]

Outstanding

 

 

Plus, what mjjbecker said about teachers and transmitting, is the correct answer, for ten points.

 

 

 

if there were any points being given out.

[Brian]

..

[Ya Mu]

IF anyone cares, I edited my earlier post. I was in a hurry when I made it and now I had time to actually read everything. The edits are in bold.