Stillness Movement Neigong and Michael Lomax's 'Light Warrior's Guide' Book

[Raymond Wolter]

 

I ordered my copy (book and DVD) a day before MJJ posted his review.

 

 

I did too, but after Becker's review. I will keep ya all posted on what I learn from the book. No matter what great deal of good stuff a book or a technique offers, I guess it is up to me to learn, practice and derive benefit.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Raymond Wolter

[David Yeh]

this killed it for me, and while most might take this as nit-picking, i felt like it makes all the difference in the world. i was very disappointed to see Mr. Lomax resort to theatrics in order to appear more "masterful," more like "the doer with all the power," to attract more people who are seduced by that kind of thing. had he sat cross-legged on the floor, just facing the general direction of the student so we knew who he's directly affecting, and without all the theatrical hand movements, i would have contacted him long ago to study with and perhaps exchange ideas.

 

i understand the impulse to give in to the unnecessary theatrics, as that seems to be what so many are looking for. But i don't respect it. and most importantly, i've never given into it in my own teaching.

 

 

I'm not clear on your criticism, Hundun. How are presentation or "theatricality" and personal integrity related?

 

Is this based on the assumption that the hand gestures are unnecessary?

 

Michael's methods might look theatrical or fantastic. I've seen similar in Bernard Shannon (Jerry Alan Johnson's student) and Wong Kiew Kit. When Sifu Wong or his students project energy, they often get into a broad kung fu stance to do it. At first I thought that was unnecessarily theatrical, but after having tried it for a time I realized that it really does help.

[Vajrasattva]

 

Sometimes when one sees nice things being said about others, even if we disagree, resisting the temptation to jump in and piss all over it is a good thing. I don't think you needed to make the comments about Santiago on the 'Shaktipat' thread. If he didn't dispute the comparison to Wang Liping it is likely because he gave it little to no thought. He has always shown humilty and respect to his teachers, so he isn't prone to raising himself on a pedestal. He expresses what he thinks in a forthright manner is all.

 

 

 

 

sorry forgot to answer about Master Wang LIping. I believe he is genuine.

[Lucky7Strikes]

In spontaneous chi kung that is based on arriving at the formless it generally looks more like a soft flowing dance rather than flopping around, this spastic flopping around which has been popularized lately, which is based on lack of experience in the practitioner, seems to me like a scam, that is all. Sooo, depending on how the results look in the students I can get a feel for how this works in this case. I do like Ya Mu, he is straightforward and helpful, and I think he has good chi power. My question is, does he teach the way of power to others or is it taught for some healing effect?

It does turn into that. . Then much more than that. .

[Sahaj Nath]

 

wow, i just... wow.

 

 

okay, there's a lot here to address, but i won't bother with a line-by-line examination, since that would only underscore what an ass i am.

 

mjjbecker, Ya Mu, i read both your responses, and i did my best to take stock of them. i even had a long talk with one of my guys today about my attitude, my tendency toward highlighting the negative, and what i consider to be my own forthrightness. before getting defensive, i really do try to take it all in. i went back to my post and i re-read it. i absolutely understand Ya Mu's reaction, and i'll get to that. mjj, not so much. if fact, with the exception of a couple of my inflammatory kunlun posts back in '07, there's more vitriol in what you wrote to me here than i think i have ever written on this forum. nothing i wrote, NOTHING i wrote, was written in a caustic manner. i know that i can be abrasive and confronting, and when i'm wrong about something i tend to show my ass. but i also apologize and take correction very well. becker, YOU seem as if you've been saving up for an opportunity to tell me off about any number of things that haven't sat right with you about me.

 

i say what i mean. oftentimes i say it more harshly than needed just to make sure that i'm not pulling punches or sugar-coating or being falsely modest (or otherwise cowering or "punking out"). that's rooted in MY OWN personal values, and not everybody is comfortable with that. but NO ONE ever has to guess about what i really think. even when i think i'm coming off like an ass, i say what i mean anyway and i remain open to further dialog. as i was here.

 

if you don't like that about me, that's your business. but for some reason you seem to make allowances for very similar traits when they come from Santi. it's one of the reasons i liked him so much when he first joined this board. i found his candor refreshing, although i think he has more of an Alpha personality than i do. btw, what did i say in that exchange that was untoward? anything? i thought i made some pretty clean clarifications, and there was NOTHING malicious in what i stated. merely that there was legitimate reason for some people to get a certain impression about them. and i was honest. your not liking it doesn't even factor into it. not unless you can demonstrate how i was wrong or mean-spirited. i was neither.

 

i still get PM's about training, and i STILL send most of those people to Santiago and Susan. i love BOTH of them. you act like i'm veiling something when i'm not. where i come from it's called keeping it 100. i don't bite my tongue and call it being polite. i don't sugar-coat things and end up losing the original point i wanted to make. and if i go too far, or i turn out to be wrong, i don't hesitate to accept that, to apologize, and to correct myself. that's how we do it where i'm from, and i'm a SAINT compared to the folks i grew up with.

 

and you're way off about my sense of how great i am. i really have to stretch to interpret what i wrote the way that you did. you just don't like many people like me, and that's fine. i still think you're pretty cool, although i won't be going out of my way to strike up another dialog with you any time soon.

 

I'm not clear on your criticism, Hundun. How are presentation or "theatricality" and personal integrity related?

 

Is this based on the assumption that the hand gestures are unnecessary?

 

Michael's methods might look theatrical or fantastic. I've seen similar in Bernard Shannon (Jerry Alan Johnson's student) and Wong Kiew Kit. When Sifu Wong or his students project energy, they often get into a broad kung fu stance to do it. At first I thought that was unnecessarily theatrical, but after having tried it for a time I realized that it really does help.

 

 

THIS!

 

yes, this was EXACTLY my assumption, and i think you're totally right. it's something i have faulted JAJ for in the past as well, although not here on this forum. it's one of the reasons i never studied with him in-person, although i now own just about ALL of his books & videos, except for the Daoist mysticism stuff. i probably missed out on some kick-ass training, but a proper meeting of the minds is just as essential as the teacher's skills. right now i have one teacher, and that's Mark Griffin of Hard Light. the man blows my mind with the levels on which we communicate.

 

i learned what Ya Mu acknowledges as the more advanced methods of qi projection without the assistance of a teacher. my personal practice and healing work just evolved that way. and so for me to watch a video from someone i consider to be more advanced in his training than i am, i found it off-putting that he is standing there waving his arms and blowing and whatnot, because i know it's not necessary, and he states this himself.

 

but he's a teacher, and he breaks these things down to make them more accessible. i can respect that, and that also means that i totally jumped to my own conclusions about the video. he didn't make the video with a specific agenda in mind of wowing people, and i thought he did.

 

 

Ya Mu,

 

i'll respond to you in another post later. but for now, i hope you can accept my apology. i really didn't mean any disrespect. i think i offended you, that offense closed you off to what i was actually trying to convey, but i think that's very understandable. it wasn't so much that i was trying to cut down your practice, although upon re-reading my words it certainly does look that way. but it's just that spontaneous, natural flow is a quality that serves as the basis for the effectiveness of a lot of different systems i've come across. there are thousands of systems out there, literally. but the core elements that make the good systems work are very few. and being as my own path has been very heretical, i've gotten into the habit of reducing systems to their primary core elements. i wasn't disagreeing at all with your student chris. what i was saying was that if chris' interpretation was correct, then the spontaneous, natural flow element in your system is the key to its effectiveness, and since i'm already well-steeped in that quality of practice, i wouldn't find the practice to be very remarkable. perhaps i could have been more skillful in how i expressed that, but i wasn't attempting to cut you down. in fact, i remain quite open to being shown the error in my thinking if there's more to the practice than what was described.

 

i may come off as an ass sometime, but i really do try to be an honest one.

 

well, i guess i already said what i wanted to say. no need for another post.

 

i hope you can accept my apology.

Edited August 1, 2010 by Hundun

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Well I'm not so sure I felt kind of like an idiot for ordering the book and now that I read Hundun's post I feel more like an idiot.

 

I'm such a sucker sometimes, too impulsive, getting swayed by a good spiel. At first I even fell for Max's opening statement, but quickly changed my mind after seeing all the other untruths.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm...maybe you should rethink the 'Gate Keeper' handle?

Edited July 31, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[mjjbecker]

Beautiful! mjjbecker, thanks for sharing.

 

Glad you got to experience Michael's

 

 

Blessings.

 

[rodgerj]

but what REALLY put me off of Ya Mu's teachings, and i'm really hoping to get a response/some clarification, is that he posted a video, which i consider to be fraudulent, in order to attract students.

 

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/14082-stillness-movement-qigong-qi-projection/

 

it's not the student's movements that i find problematic, as i have clients who shake and twist and move as well. i know that this kind of thing happens. it's the comment he made later on the same page:

 

That video is not fraudulent. I know this because I am the person in that video. I usually refrain from posting these days and I don't like to do reviews until I have somewhat mastered something. I don't really want to go into much detail or get into any debates but I noticed this post after posting my I-Ching request and have to back Michael up and tell you that it's not a fake vid for sure. I had also not been a long term student and when I opened up to the energy that's what happened. I had no idea I was being videoed but I was cool about it after and said it was ok to share.

[mjjbecker]

 

if chris' response is in any way an accurate portrayal of Stillness-Movement Qigong, then it's just one of many other schools that employ spontaneous, natural flow qigong, and i probably don't stand to learn much from the book.

 

if that's the only true gem that the book has to offer, then i would recommend the textbook that i use which is much more thorough and costs less: Healing Promise of Qi.

 

Sloppy Zhang is the kind of practitioner that would probably read Ya Mu's book and NOT be impressed. because he already gets it, and he just doesn't get how other committed practitioners don't see it.

 

this can be learned in many other styles, which kind of makes Stillness-Movement a bit unremarkable to me.

 

what REALLY put me off of Ya Mu's teachings, and i'm really hoping to get a response/some clarification, is that he posted a video, which i consider to be fraudulent, in order to attract students.

 

i was very disappointed to see Mr. Lomax resort to theatrics in order to appear more "masterful," more like "the doer with all the power," to attract more people who are seduced by that kind of thing.

 

i understand the impulse to give in to the unnecessary theatrics, as that seems to be what so many are looking for. But i don't respect it. and most importantly, i've never given into it in my own teaching.

 

this is something i've wanted to post since Ya Mu first posted that Stillness-Movement thread, but i'm glad i waited until now.

 

 

All your own words. All opinions given despite never having experienced Stillness Movement, having not read the book or in fact met Michael Lomax.

 

Also your own words:

 

 

i'm totally open to criticism on this, and if anyone thinks i'm missing something, PLEASE share it.

 

 

Looking at what you wrote, I could not reach any other conclusion than you were being extemely critical of a practice and person you have no experience whatsoever of.

 

My response was not caustic, it was blunt. You have said you like straight talking and that is exactly what you got. I appreciate it isn't nice though, from personal experience. Quite painful in fact, but moreso when what is said hits home.

 

Saved up? No, read what I wrote to Steve. If my memory can stretch back to his comments in 2008, it can stretch back to yours in a recent thread. When I respond, I try to do so with as many facts as come to mind.

 

Regarding Santiago, we have had email discussions and given our frank opinions on various matters. No problem whatsoever. Both he and I also like to say things as they are. We may not agree on everything, but then I can't say I even agree with myself on everything.

 

Now, I can assure you I have no feelings of ill will or animosity towards you. In fact I have enjoyed reading many of your posts. If you could write them without the above sort of observations, I would be an enthusiastic supporter of what you have to say.

 

My point is a simple one: you can get across a lot of good information without needing to belittle anyone else in your writing. If that is not your intention, then it is worth being aware that it is the impression being given.

 

Please do engage in debate with me. Please pull me up if you disagree with something. I'm-and know I have been-wrong on numerous occassions. Having something pointed out is a good way of not repeating my old mistakes. Yes, I will vigorously defend my position, but I will also hold my hands up and admit when I am wrong. I have no problem apologising when I am wrong also, and have had plenty of practice doing so.

 

I am sure you have a lot of valuable insight and experience that I, along with others, can learn from. Don't let some pompous bastard like me put you off. Don't give in to the temptation to be a pompous bastard like me either though.

 

As with before, my best,

 

Mike

[Vajrasattva]

Becker & Hundun

 

salams to you both

 

I know Becker is a good man and I should probably follow his advice and no longer post here on tbumbs. .....Its hard to get away some times.

 

anyhow I off to continue my chicken sacrifices and ruining the tao as tao 99 states.

 

peace

 

sd

[宁]

One thing is certain: this thread is turning into a humble-pie restaurant.

It turns out that you guys are all in fact very modest!

But no one is more modest than me!

 

[mjjbecker]

[mjjbecker]

Becker & Hundun

 

salams to you both

 

I know Becker is a good man and I should probably follow his advice and no longer post here on tbumbs. .....Its hard to get away some times.

 

anyhow I off to continue my chicken sacrifices and ruining the tao as tao 99 states.

 

peace

 

sd

 

I worry about you sometimes. 'All those negative waves' (name the movie, people). You put yourself in the firing line far more than I would care to.

 

It is hard to get away. The key I've found, is not to be attached. Getting better at it all round.

[Sahaj Nath]

That video is not fraudulent. I know this because I am the person in that video. I usually refrain from posting these days and I don't like to do reviews until I have somewhat mastered something. I don't really want to go into much detail or get into any debates but I noticed this post after posting my I-Ching request and have to back Michael up and tell you that it's not a fake vid for sure. I had also not been a long term student and when I opened up to the energy that's what happened. I had no idea I was being videoed but I was cool about it after and said it was ok to share.

 

yes, i get it, and i've already responded to this argument. my response was that THIS WASN'T MY POINT.

 

i wasn't questioning the energy projection. i was questioning the seeming theatrics of his movements while making the projection. that's all. i don't doubt his talent.

[Sahaj Nath]

i'm gonna go through your first response a bit, then end with your second one. let's see how this goes.

 

...this thread isn't about you. Like your comments elsewhere, I get the impression that you are jumping in more to say how much you know. I understand the point of establishing ones credibility, but that can be done in a far more concise manner.

 

i hear that. i don't agree, but i get how that comes across.

 

You're right in saying you know little about me beyond superficial details. That is because the strength of my arguement is far more important and relevant in a discussion that me banging on about how wonderful I am and how much I know. I can't cure cancer but I have been known to kick hubris squarely in the balls with attention getting results.

 

THIS i consider a bit caustic and mean-spirited, NOT just blunt. indirectly insulting, so pretty much the opposite of blunt. i don't think i've written anything that reflects this kind of attitude. not intentionally, anyway.

 

 

Sometimes when one sees nice things being said about others, even if we disagree, resisting the temptation to jump in and piss all over it is a good thing.

 

fair enough. i actually thought it was better to write my misgivings here because your voice is so highly respected, and i thought it would sort of lessen the negative spin of my post, not to mention foster a good discussion. i didn't really think it through any further than that.

 

 

I've always had the impression that Michael Lomax is sincere in what he says and does. If I had doubts, I would go and find out for myself, or let it pass, rather than just jump in crying 'fraud'.

 

everyone says this when defending someone they like. it just doesn't hold much water for me. when i have doubts, i express them. then i get feedback. THEN, maybe i decide to go find out for myself, and maybe i don't. it's a forum, after all. but your below point is well-received:

 

Claiming to be outspoken is not a justification for being crass.

 

i DO tend to be unintentionally crass at times. personally, i prefer to be crass than to be falsely modest or deceptively polite. that's just how i roll. i think it's more honest than to err in the other direction. but again, that's kind of a cultural thing for me, i think.

 

 

If I wanted to recommend particular books, I would show some tact. 'Buy this one, it's half the price and twice the value' kind of remarks on a thread reviewing a particular book is hardly polite. I don't think you would care to have someone behave this way towards you.

 

OUCH! yeah, you're right about that. it's not my book, it's not my work, and so i didn't give it a thought when i wrote that. that was a real dick-move on my part. seriously. it won't happen again. and i'm a little embarrassed that it didn't even occur to me.

 

 

My point is a simple one: you can get across a lot of good information without needing to belittle anyone else in your writing. If that is not your intention, then it is worth being aware that it is the impression being given.

 

agreed. totally. and i mean that. i've gone back now and looked at past posts, and i see this. okay then. this is something that needs work.

 

 

thanks. this has sorta taken over the thread, but this was a dialog that i needed. i see much more clearly now the areas in which i tend to be completely thoughtless. that's gotta change. straight up.

 

when i disagree with something, i like to lay it out and hold my ground, but i'm still trying to learn the value of appropriately holding my tongue. torn between saying the wrong things and saying nothing. haven't quite found the middle way yet. but i'm a lot closer, thanks to this exchange.

 

EDIT:

 

Santi,

 

Salaam to you, brother.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Hundun

[Dainin]

As a reader, I'd like to thank the participants in this thread for maintaining a civil and intelligent discussion on their differences of opinion. It could easily have degenerated into the typical nonsense, so it's nice to see.

[mjjbecker]

Hundun,

 

I can understand how my comment caused offense and that was not my intention (it was supposed to get your attention). I should have been more clear in the meaning.

 

In my experience, 'healers' often do not claim to heal anything, but rather to facilitate healing. When you made the comment on the Shaktipat thread that 'I can heal cancer' I was surprised, even though I did suspect there was an element of tongue-in-cheek.

 

To make such a comment though, even in jest, implies hubris, hense my, and here I admit to my own lack of tact, response. My own comment did not rest only on this, but it was the root. I apologise for any pain my tactlessness has caused.

 

I do believe you are a sincere person and like the rest of us trying to find some understanding of all of this. I appreciate your comments and again I would like to say there is no ill will. I doff my hat to you.

 

Best,

 

Mike

[Ya Mu]

The energy you give someone fades away over a period of three days or less and is the GONE, the firing should be repeated many times, each week, for years, synchronized with the exercising of the form, for it to really take and make a lasting difference.

 

This is not how it works in my system. The energy certainly will fade IF a person does not go home & practice. If they do it will not. The first class the students get 20 hours of this and I assure you it DOES LIGHT the FIRE. Some students go home and think about it or think that Stillness-Movement is the same as another system and continue with the other system instead of practicing Stillness-Movement. These students LOSE LOSE LOSE as you suggest.

 

<original reply scrubbed>

 

I feel it. We'll see what continues to manifest.

 

Don't let what SJ said influence you. He simply doesn't know anything about this system and is attempting to reference his to Stillness-Movement when it indeed is not the same thing. You are doing great. The whole key in our system is, once I connect a person they must then go home and practice or they WILL lose it. As long as you keep practicing you will not lose but gain. AND you already have, I can tell a significant difference in your energy. Keep up the good work. Again, you are doing really well and I am very pleased with your progress.

[寒月 Hanyue]

As a reader, I'd like to thank the participants in this thread for maintaining a civil and intelligent discussion on their differences of opinion. It could easily have degenerated into the typical nonsense, so it's nice to see.

 

+1

[Ya Mu]

That video is not fraudulent. I know this because I am the person in that video. I usually refrain from posting these days and I don't like to do reviews until I have somewhat mastered something. I don't really want to go into much detail or get into any debates but I noticed this post after posting my I-Ching request and have to back Michael up and tell you that it's not a fake vid for sure. I had also not been a long term student and when I opened up to the energy that's what happened. I had no idea I was being videoed but I was cool about it after and said it was ok to share.

Thanks for taking the time to drop by and add this. Can't tell you how many times folks have asked me "Who is that"; of course I have never mentioned who.

Hope all is well with you and that your practice is going extremely well. I anticipate this to be the case as you are very talented. You were a joy to have in my class and I felt honored to have you there.

 

Also thanks for having the courage to say it was OK for me to post it. I have several videos taken by other students as well as my wife demonstrating how this qi projection affects students but most did not have the courage to say it would be OK for other people to see this.

Michael

[Mal]

SJ is on a vacation for 90 days.

[Lucky7Strikes]

Lucky, are you referring to Yi Gong or Stillness-Movement?

I was referring to Yi Gong.

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb has mentioned how most qi gong came from spontaneous practices; that she herself stopped most deliberate qi gong practices to practice Yi Gong.

[mjjbecker]

I was referring to Yi Gong.

 

Sifu Jenny Lamb has mentioned how most qi gong came from spontaneous practices; that she herself stopped most deliberate qi gong practices to practice Yi Gong.

 

I'm coming to that conclusion myself, and feel that way about my own practice (just to add my agreement-Sifu Lamb is I am sure WAY beyond my level ).

 

I also doff my hat to her for sharing what she knows, and to other teachers like Michael. It really is very difficult to be a teacher and having the patience and compassion to deal with students-and that is just 'normal' teaching. Teaching this kind of stuff and doing it well requires a remarkable person indeed.

[mjjbecker]

Just completed an hour and a bit of Stillness Movement. Impressions.

 

How easy it is. Nothing to remember; nothing to count; no special breathing or holding the breath; no straining with the effort; no mental or physical struggle.

 

Sensations. Heat; warmth; 'clouds' of qi around the hands and arms; electric currents; energy moving down the arms and body; heat in the dantien.

 

Feelings. Peace; tranquilty; self ease; acceptance-of myself, of others, of life; flowing-not grasping at any kind of 'result; belonging.

 

 

 

N.B. Sensations are just that-sensations. Not something to be sought or chased after. Just 'be' and what needs to happen will happen.

[VCraigP]

Mal

 

 

Ok, then we can expect YOUR follow on review in due course?...

 

and not have to wait 90 days or more :-)

 

Since SJ has been sent to the woodshed

Edited July 31, 2010 by VCraigP