The Double Bind

[ralis]

I started this last night when the internet went down from an electrical storm. This may be of value to some in that confusion or the inability to make clear decisions may be cleared when this dilemma is recognized. I will see what is available and post it.

 

 

If you do not do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.). But if you do do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.).

 

 

ralis

[ralis]

Gregory Bateson addresses this problem in his book 'Steps To An Ecology Of Mind'. I read this years ago and may read it again. This pdf is all over the internet. I am certain Amazon has copies.

 

http://www6.ufrgs.br/horizon/files/teoria2/bateson.pdf

 

http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Ecology-Mind-Anthropology-Epistemology/dp/0226039056/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1280675813&sr=8-1

 

 

ralis

Edited August 1, 2010 by ralis

[Marblehead]

Ah! Decision making time. I love making decisions.

 

Looking forward to your challenges.

 

Peace & Love!

[Tao99]

.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Tao99

[voidisyinyang]

Bateson's "Mind and Nature" is a masterpiece -- "Steps to an Ecology of Mind" is not as well written I think as he was still developing the concepts.

 

"Mind and Nature is one of those rarest of literary jewels: its message shines with increasing intensity as we continue our descent into the shadows of a disconnected relationship with Nature. Bateson illuminates a path toward recovering the wholeness of life."

Brian Goodwin, Schumacher College, author of How the Leopard Changed Its Spots: The Evolution of Complexity.

 

http://www.hannanewcombe.com/gregory-bateson-mind-and-nature

 

http://www.oikos.org/mind&nature.htm

 

http://www.esnips.com/doc/d05b16f7-2b37-42b3-8ee4-9a2c91e0b3f3/philo---Bateson,Gregory---Mind-and-nature

 

His writing style is hard to figure out - I had to read "Mind and Nature" several times to work my head around it -- but that was 20 years ago. haha.

 

Yeah here's my most recent "double bind" analysis -- from 2007:

 

http://naturalresonancerevolution.blogspot.com/2010/08/secret-of-synarchy-and-double-bind.html

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010211031118/lightmind.com/library/hempel/restoring-logos2.html

 

Systems theorist Gregory Bateson gives an example of this "wildness" in action:

 

To see myself as part of a system which includes me and the chaparral frames a reason for my action-to preserve the ongoing cycling of us (me and the chaparral) by actively burning the chaparral. I think synchronic action-framed like that-is Taoist-it's a sort of passivity. There is no diachronic action in the Eternal Present. But to rush to preserve the human species against a galactic threat or to get ready for a biblical apocalypse, that would be diachronic.324

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010210220101/lightmind.com/library/hempel/sound-current.html

 

When investigating the true import of beats phenomena, the founder of social systems theory, Gregory Bateson, asks: "Do we, in fact, carry around with us...samples of various sorts of regularity against which we can try the information (news of regular difference) that comes in from outside?"86

Edited August 1, 2010 by drewhempel

[ralis]

 

 

 

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010210220101/lightmind.com/library/hempel/sound-current.html

 

 

Quote

When investigating the true import of beats phenomena, the founder of social systems theory, Gregory Bateson, asks: "Do we, in fact, carry around with us...samples of various sorts of regularity against which we can try the information (news of regular difference) that comes in from outside?"86

 

 

Is regularity a set of limiting conditions which are both pleasurable and painful? If this represents the double bind, then how does one change?

 

The bind seems to be a closed loop, where information is needed to break the bind. In what way does the filter of the familiar allow new information to be accessed and integrated?

 

 

ralis

Edited August 1, 2010 by ralis

[voidisyinyang]

Quote

When investigating the true import of beats phenomena, the founder of social systems theory, Gregory Bateson, asks: "Do we, in fact, carry around with us...samples of various sorts of regularity against which we can try the information (news of regular difference) that comes in from outside?"86

 

 

Is regularity a set of limiting conditions which are both pleasurable and painful? If this represents the double bind, then how does one change?

 

The bind seems to be a closed loop, where information is needed to break the bind. In what way does the filter of the familiar allow new information to be accessed and integrated?

 

 

ralis

 

Time is formless -- so the double bind is based on timeless logic whereas social systems theory uses the physical realm to access the formless realm of time -- what Bateson calls "difference that makes a difference."

 

Yeah reading Bateson is frustrating because he's grasping at something very profound from his immersion in Bali cultures -- but Bateson is not quite there. Inevitably he falls back into Western culture.

 

So in my masters thesis from 2001 -- I make the same error -- for example I state that the Tai-Chi symbol is the SAME as the chaotic logistic equations.

 

But this is not true -- the secret of accessing time as the formless is to use "complementary opposites" of the body-mind instead of logarithms -- as all Western science relies on symmetry instead of complementary opposites.

 

My masters thesis straddles these two concepts because "quantum chaos" in Western science is the end limit that returns back to time as formless resonance -- but does so through the exact opposite of complementary opposite resonance. So Western science becomes more automated since the mathematics for the systems theory relies on the computer iterations that can not be predicted -- math professor Steve Strogatz discusses this problem of Western science in his "the Edge" interview -- 2006 I think. It's what I discovered right after my masters thesis and then posted online -- http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm -- the Actual Matrix Plan.

 

Anyway so with complementary opposites there is an infinite resonance that is formless -- we exist within it -- it is "always already" -- and so it's based on logical inference. Logical inference means that the "difference which makes a difference" can not be contained as a closed system of measurement. This is what was discovered in quantum mechanics -- it's the "pilot wave" of de Broglie -- it's also called the "quantum potential" -- so the technology can never use it for signaling, yet because of nondualism it can be logically inferred as real: pure consciousness as formless awareness.

 

And so based on "complementary opposites" people will say but what is "male" and what is "female" -- as the yin and yang are within each other -- infinitely -- never ending. This is also the basis for the Pythagorean "infinite spiral of fifths." That's the basis of my masters thesis -- I discovered that yin is 3:4 Perfect 4th music ratio and yang is 2:3 Perfect 5th music ratio.

 

When Bateson refers to the moire phenomenon of beats as pure information -- a difference that makes a difference -- and then how time is the means to overcome these double bind paradoxes of language -- he is on the verge of discovery. He knows that body language is the 2nd level of logical type against language -- and he ponders whether it's possible to communicate using the moire beats instead of words and then finally he teaches dolphins to "learn to learn" which is the third level. They are not just responding but every time they know to make something new.

 

This ability to have an "everfresh, evernew" reality is also detailed by Yogananda in his "Autobiography of a Yogi." So the complementary opposites work through the tai-chi exercises but also the "small universe" which is the 12 notes of the music scale as the yin/yang nodes -- detailed in "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality." Yogananda's lineage also practiced the "small universe" as the kriya exercises. Then finally the "full lotus" is the most direct means -- based on the quantum chaos principle that a resonance of frequency creates a significant increase in amplitude -- or the focus of the mind through emptiness then can activate the power of the body which then exorcises the subconscious blockages, and resonates with the superconscious quantum biophoton light. This light is nonlocal which means it can access the future, have telepathy, and telekinesis.

 

Chunyi Lin says that Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe" is what it's like for an energy master -- and that's based on Bohm quantum mechanics from de Broglie's pilot wave of superliminal information. Then Karl Pribram modeled the brain as using the same holographic light system. So that's still Western science but it can provide a metaphor to translate the nonwestern practices.

[Birch]

Thanks Drew for the Bateson stuff. Good read!

[ralis]

Time is formless -- so the double bind is based on timeless logic whereas social systems theory uses the physical realm to access the formless realm of time -- what Bateson calls "difference that makes a difference."

 

Yeah reading Bateson is frustrating because he's grasping at something very profound from his immersion in Bali cultures -- but Bateson is not quite there. Inevitably he falls back into Western culture.

 

So in my masters thesis from 2001 -- I make the same error -- for example I state that the Tai-Chi symbol is the SAME as the chaotic logistic equations.

 

But this is not true -- the secret of accessing time as the formless is to use "complementary opposites" of the body-mind instead of logarithms -- as all Western science relies on symmetry instead of complementary opposites.

 

My masters thesis straddles these two concepts because "quantum chaos" in Western science is the end limit that returns back to time as formless resonance -- but does so through the exact opposite of complementary opposite resonance. So Western science becomes more automated since the mathematics for the systems theory relies on the computer iterations that can not be predicted -- math professor Steve Strogatz discusses this problem of Western science in his "the Edge" interview -- 2006 I think. It's what I discovered right after my masters thesis and then posted online -- http://nonduality.com/hempel.htm -- the Actual Matrix Plan.

 

Anyway so with complementary opposites there is an infinite resonance that is formless -- we exist within it -- it is "always already" -- and so it's based on logical inference. Logical inference means that the "difference which makes a difference" can not be contained as a closed system of measurement. This is what was discovered in quantum mechanics -- it's the "pilot wave" of de Broglie -- it's also called the "quantum potential" -- so the technology can never use it for signaling, yet because of nondualism it can be logically inferred as real: pure consciousness as formless awareness.

 

And so based on "complementary opposites" people will say but what is "male" and what is "female" -- as the yin and yang are within each other -- infinitely -- never ending. This is also the basis for the Pythagorean "infinite spiral of fifths." That's the basis of my masters thesis -- I discovered that yin is 3:4 Perfect 4th music ratio and yang is 2:3 Perfect 5th music ratio.

 

When Bateson refers to the moire phenomenon of beats as pure information -- a difference that makes a difference -- and then how time is the means to overcome these double bind paradoxes of language -- he is on the verge of discovery. He knows that body language is the 2nd level of logical type against language -- and he ponders whether it's possible to communicate using the moire beats instead of words and then finally he teaches dolphins to "learn to learn" which is the third level. They are not just responding but every time they know to make something new.

 

This ability to have an "everfresh, evernew" reality is also detailed by Yogananda in his "Autobiography of a Yogi." So the complementary opposites work through the tai-chi exercises but also the "small universe" which is the 12 notes of the music scale as the yin/yang nodes -- detailed in "Taoist Yoga: Alchemy and Immortality." Yogananda's lineage also practiced the "small universe" as the kriya exercises. Then finally the "full lotus" is the most direct means -- based on the quantum chaos principle that a resonance of frequency creates a significant increase in amplitude -- or the focus of the mind through emptiness then can activate the power of the body which then exorcises the subconscious blockages, and resonates with the superconscious quantum biophoton light. This light is nonlocal which means it can access the future, have telepathy, and telekinesis.

 

Chunyi Lin says that Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe" is what it's like for an energy master -- and that's based on Bohm quantum mechanics from de Broglie's pilot wave of superliminal information. Then Karl Pribram modeled the brain as using the same holographic light system. So that's still Western science but it can provide a metaphor to translate the nonwestern practices.

 

This is pertinent information. However, my question was, how does one remove double binds and what are the means to achieve this. I am not going to sit around in full lotus.

 

 

ralis

[ralis]

Here are some extreme examples of double binds from 'Full Metal Jacket'.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Nf1MK7lts

[voidisyinyang]

This is pertinent information. However, my question was, how does one remove double binds and what are the means to achieve this. I am not going to sit around in full lotus.

 

 

ralis

 

Sitting in full lotus is how I remove double binds! haha. Otherwise do standing tai-chi and then the "small universe" exercise. Still keep in mind that the nonwestern energy is the opposite of the Western repressed fascist neurotic b.s. so the double binds to be removed will be nonstop. Still it's a fun trip and after a certain amount of practice there's no turning back -- permanent third eye energy reality.

[voidisyinyang]

Here are some extreme examples of double binds from 'Full Metal Jacket'.

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8Nf1MK7lts

 

Oh yeah Stanley Kubrick was a master of double binds! The movie "The Shining" was on cable recently and I caught part of it -- I had watched that movie about 20 times back in 1989 - 90 as my buddy was writing a paper on it. The Shining is all about paranormal reality and double binds in Western culture -- there's a structuralist or neoformalist theme in the movie using the color scheme of red, white and blue for the AmeriKKKa and then the Bartok music and the labyrinth is the spiral vortex into the paranormal realm. So while superficially it's a "horror" movie genre it's actually about the Native indigenous shamanism as the hotel was on a native burial ground -- and then all the ghosts, etc.

 

Chunyi Lin actually shared a story similar to the Shining when he went to Mankato to teach qigong and he encountered this giant ghost spirits guarding over the largest mass hanging in U.S. history -- of the Dakota who revolted against the U.S. reneging their treaty agreement, leaving the Dakota to starve to death....

 

Anyway then there's also Madeline Island in Lake Superior which was a sacred regional gathering site but then there was a massacre of Indians there and so the Island was no longer visited by Natives as it was considered haunted by their spirit ghosts. But the white dudes were scared as well until a new family moved there and then the white dude axed his family to death -- just like in the Shining. It's in Warren's "History of the Ojibwe" book.

 

Kubrick's my favorite film director but his films are so intense -- I finally saw some of Lolita on cable a few weeks ago -- another brilliant double bind. So the old man gets strung along with the daughter flirting with him in his prime -- in competition with her mom. So the daughter wins the old man -- a professor so that's a real catch -- but then she ditches him but too late as the old professor is obsessed in love as lust, of course. Finally he tracks her down after he became psychotic while she was flirting with other males in his presence and he thought he'd get arrested for underage sex.... Anyway at the very end he just gives everything to her even though she's with another man because he has a broken heart and he doesn't care anymore -- he just wants to express his love and get it over with. She's just like "cool I get all this money." haha.

 

That's probably the most common double bind -- but then I was writing about that in the link I gave.

[goldisheavy]

I started this last night when the internet went down from an electrical storm. This may be of value to some in that confusion or the inability to make clear decisions may be cleared when this dilemma is recognized. I will see what is available and post it.

 

 

If you do not do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.). But if you do do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.).

 

 

ralis

 

Ralis, do you mind giving an example of this in practice? I rarely, if ever, come up with double binds.

 

Usually my problems are like this, simplified: "If I don't go to work, I will have more trouble or hassle surviving. But if I go to work, I will suffer insults to my humanity." It's not exactly a double bind. Here I have a condition to exist in this realm. If I don't want to exist in this realm, this entire problem just vanishes altogether. But let's say I want to be a human among humans in this world. So I have to choose how to hassle myself. I either hassle myself working for others, and endure their constant insults, and the insult of being in a subservient position. Or I have to hassle myself learning survivalist skills to live in nature. Or I have to hassle myself learning how to run my own business. But either way, as long as I insist on being inside a human realm, a human among humans, I have chosen a hassle.

 

The only way to really end this, is to give up humanity entirely. That doesn't mean running away from it per se, but it means to give humanity no heed. To ignore it. To give it no weight. That means you stop being a human. Remember when Buddha was asked if he was a human, he said, in so many words, "no." He was asked a series of questions, "Are you this?" Like "Are you a god?" No. "Are you a ghost?" No. "Are you a spirit?" No. "Are you a sage?" No. And so on. "What are you?" "I am awake." Buddha means awake (by the way, in the Russian language the verb "budhit'" means "to wake someone up").

 

Now, I don't want to promote Buddhism (I consider it to be an erring ideology that has some good/useful bits in it), but this was a convenient example for this particular discussion.

 

When you pick for yourself something that is inherently self-contradictory, you will have problems. The first step to ending it is to become aware of it. Then you've got options. You can end it at an inner level by learning to tolerate contradictions and stopping to wish to end contradictions. Or you can end it at an outer level by giving no heed to contradictions, thus disempowering them. Because contradictions are visionary, just like all of existence, with enough wisdom, it is possible to make them disappear with your intent. That's part of what magic is.

 

So, if you have a cup of bitter beer, you can learn to like it, or you can learn to change how it actually tastes by magic. These are the no-hassle options. The third option requires hassle, and that means, to transform beer according to hassle-steps. Hassle-steps are the steps that we believe the world requires from us. For example, the first step might be to boil the beer, and then collect the vapor. Or the first step may be to find some fruit and juice them (to get ready to mix the juice with beer). Or the first step may be to get more water (to get ready to dilute the beer). These steps are hassle, and the reason we would think of those steps is because we deeply believe that the world is structured.

 

Our natural state is unstructured. Our intent is unstructured. In our dreams, when we are not hassled -- we want it, and so it is. There are no steps. This condition of not having steps to go through, is what we conceive to be hassle-free. I want to fly, and I fly. I want something to appear, and it appears. This is the natural state. I mean natural in the sense that it's very comfortable (contrast with "His body was curled up in an unnatural position and his breath jagged" meaning uncomfortable). So in this sense, when we say people are unnatural, we don't mean people don't appear, we mean people do things that are unnecessarily bothersome uncomfortable, like scratching your ear with your toes when a hand will do. So when our naturally, comfortably unstructured intent encounters structure, it begins to suffer. Structure is an imposition. Structure is OK short-term. For example, a game is a structured activity. A game is fun short-term. But imagine if you were locked into a game and couldn't get out? Then all the fun of the game would be gone, and it would be pure hell, because any but the shortest living structure is felt as hell. Structures are limits on freedom.

 

So understanding the situation is the most important thing. Then you need immense courage to make a decision about it. If you want an outer transformation, you have to be nothing less then fearless, and beyond the human condition in a very profound way.

Edited August 2, 2010 by goldisheavy

[Birch]

"So while superficially it's a "horror" movie genre it's actually about the Native indigenous shamanism as the hotel was on a native burial ground -- and then all the ghosts, etc.

 

A favourite movie of mine that I can't watch due to the graphic violent imagery. The ending is so optimistic and beautiful but I can't sit through certain scenes to get there. I tried reading the book but I'd seen the movie first and couldn't make it through.

[voidisyinyang]

"So while superficially it's a "horror" movie genre it's actually about the Native indigenous shamanism as the hotel was on a native burial ground -- and then all the ghosts, etc.

 

A favourite movie of mine that I can't watch due to the graphic violent imagery. The ending is so optimistic and beautiful but I can't sit through certain scenes to get there. I tried reading the book but I'd seen the movie first and couldn't make it through.

 

Yeah I stopped watching when the creepy naked old decayed lady ghost was going to have sex with Jack.

 

Anyway here's a "shockumentary" on the "double bind" of Africa right after colonialization.

 

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/africa-addio/

 

It's got genocide, massacres, of people and animals -- but it's presented in the form of the "banality of evil" so to speak.

[Kris]

 

If you do not do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.). But if you do do A, you will not (survive, be safe, have fun, etc.).

 

 

John Grinder, the co-founder of NLP, was a protege of Bateson. He states that you need to generate at least 5 options before you make a decision.

 

A New Code NLP practitioner would use a pattern called "N-step reframe." (google it)

 

Another (less elegant) method would be to dissociate from the situation and generate your 5 options while in a resourceful state of mind.

 

Enjoy,

 

Kris

[Vajrahridaya]

All my double binds are obliterated by my Dzogchen practice. As all my double binds are basically a state of mind or perception rather than a physical occurrence. Even if the physical occurrence may seem like a double bind to someone, for me if I'm steady in my practice... they all turn into opportunities of some sort or another. Just because I see it that way from within this state of wonderful peace, and acceptance!

[ralis]

All my double binds are obliterated by my Dzogchen practice. As all my double binds are basically a state of mind or perception rather than a physical occurrence. Even if the physical occurrence may seem like a double bind to someone, for me if I'm steady in my practice... they all turn into opportunities of some sort or another. Just because I see it that way from within this state of wonderful peace, and acceptance!

 

Do you even know what a double bind is?

 

 

ralis

[Vajrahridaya]

 

Chunyi Lin says that Michael Talbot's book "The Holographic Universe" is what it's like for an energy master -- and that's based on Bohm quantum mechanics from de Broglie's pilot wave of superliminal information. Then Karl Pribram modeled the brain as using the same holographic light system. So that's still Western science but it can provide a metaphor to translate the nonwestern practices.

 

 

Good book!

[Vajrahridaya]

Do you even know what a double bind is?

 

 

ralis

 

No, I have no idea.

[ralis]

No, I have no idea.

 

Then how do you know that Dzogchen practices releases them if you don't know what they are?. Read the Bateson pdf that I posted. His work is very important.

 

 

ralis

[ralis]

When I have a chance, I will post some notes on how one can work with double binds.

 

 

ralis

[Mark Foote]

Do you even know what a double bind is?

 

 

ralis

 

Godel I think was the most profound philosopher of the twentieth century, and he was a mathematician, not a philosopher. If I understand his theorem correctly, any axiomatic system that can generate all of what is known to be true in mathematics will also generate contradictions, and any axiomatic system that doesn't generate contradictions must be incomplete as far as the sum of mathematical knowledge. Yet we can escape this double-bind of logic and reality, I'm convinced, as the activities cease. That would be the exercise of volition or habitual activity in speech, the exercise of volition that affects the movement of breath, and the exercise of volition in perception and sensation. What I'm trying to get at here is that when the breath depends on the free occurrence of consciousness, feeling, and impact, there is an attunement with things out of sight, out of hearing, untouched, and unrealized that transcends the limits of logic and yet includes logic, and this is our well-being.

 

The double-bind I am thinking of is escaping thought through thought, is that similar to what you are stating?

[voidisyinyang]

Godel I think was the most profound philosopher of the twentieth century, and he was a mathematician, not a philosopher. If I understand his theorem correctly, any axiomatic system that can generate all of what is known to be true in mathematics will also generate contradictions, and any axiomatic system that doesn't generate contradictions must be incomplete as far as the sum of mathematical knowledge. Yet we can escape this double-bind of logic and reality, I'm convinced, as the activities cease. That would be the exercise of volition or habitual activity in speech, the exercise of volition that affects the movement of breath, and the exercise of volition in perception and sensation. What I'm trying to get at here is that when the breath depends on the free occurrence of consciousness, feeling, and impact, there is an attunement with things out of sight, out of hearing, untouched, and unrealized that transcends the limits of logic and yet includes logic, and this is our well-being.

 

The double-bind I am thinking of is escaping thought through thought, is that similar to what you are stating?

 

It's ironic that you've mentioned Godel -- as you probably know Godel was a Platonic philosopher and so Godel practiced self-enquiry philosophy -- the logical inference of the I-thought, as taught by Socrates. Still Godel was also a Western mathematician -- so he believed in Platonic philosophy as eternal geometric forms, which is why Godel proved that Einstein's general relativity meant that the whole universe was a rotating black hole. Because the universe is rotating, according to Godel, then there is also the ability to time-travel. Godel argued that the "grandfather's paradox" of time travel would not happen because the person doing the time travel would not DESIRE to kill their grandfather.

 

There's a deep lesson to that time "double bind" paradox from Godel but since he was a Western philosopher he didn't quite solve it. The lesson is that in order to time travel it's not "you" that time-travels but pure consciousness itself as formless awareness -- and in order to resonate with the pure consciousness the philosopher or time-traveler has to first harmonize their body energy so that they have no selfish desires. That's the real reason why the time-traveller would not create the "double bind" of killing their own grandfather, thereby preventing their own existence in the future.

 

But since Godel was still stuck in Platonic philosophy which defines eternity through time as spatial geometry then Godel did not have a proper understanding of how to sublimate desire. So as Godel practiced his self-enquiry philosophy as logic Godel got paranoid that someone was poisoning his food and Godel then refused to eat food. His wife would try to feed him but could not get his weight up and Godel, so fixated on Platonic reality with his increasing paranoia, starved himself to death.

 

Yeah here's more details on Godel:

 

http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/tabid/68/id/9796/Default.aspx

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del#Religious_views

 

In 1933 Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany and over the following years the Nazis rose in influence in Austria, and among Vienna's mathematicians. In June 1936, Moritz Schlick, whose seminar had aroused Gödel's interest in logic, was assassinated by a pro-Nazi student. This triggered "a severe nervous crisis" in Gödel. He developed paranoid symptoms, including a fear of being poisoned, and spent several months in a sanatorium for nervous diseases.

 

Gödel suffered periods of mental instability and illness. He had an obsessive fear of being poisoned; he wouldn't eat unless his wife, Adele, tasted his food for him. Late in 1977, Adele was hospitalized for six months and could not taste Gödel's food anymore. In her absence, he refused to eat, eventually starving himself to death.[13] He weighed 65 pounds (approximately 30 kg) when he died. His death certificate reported that he died of "malnutrition and inanition caused by personality disturbance" in Princeton Hospital on January 14, 1978

Edited August 4, 2010 by drewhempel

[Mark Foote]

 

 

Yeah here's more details on Godel:

 

http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/tabid/68/id/9796/Default.aspx

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_G%C3%B6del#Religious_views

 

 

Wow, never knew any of that! Thanks, Drew!

 

"In 1951, Gödel demonstrated the existence of paradoxical solutions to Albert Einstein's field equations in general relativity. He gave this elaboration to Einstein as a present for his 70th birthday.[13] These "rotating universes" would allow time travel and caused Einstein to have doubts about his own theory. His solutions are known as the Gödel metric."

 

zum beispiel... hey howdy.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Mark Foote