Raymond Wolter's temporary suspension from posting.

[Birch]

"Many of my friends don't participate on this forum due to its abrasive nature"

 

Oh. Now I feel extra-ordinarily awesome for confronting myself with the terrors of the TTB on a regula basis, as well as finding Scott 10x awesome for affronting the terrors of the TTB, as well as finding Cat extraordinarily awesome (I don't use figures fr her because, being a gal, by def, she'll get the adjective without) for daring to confront the terrors of the TTB, as well as finding Mal x 100 awesome for doing this TTB terror moderating--thing.

 

I suppose this might categorize as cheerleading. Huzzah!

[C T]

"Rover is big

Teddy is small

Betty is short

Jimmy is tall..."

 

Everyone wants to live, to be loved, and to accept graciously the kindness of others...

 

 

These tunes (a 'sharing' theme)... please listen:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ODfHDboTj4&feature=related

 

 

this one:

 

and this is a bonus, from my heart, to all of you here (and firstly, to myself most of all) :

 

 

 

...all we are is dust in the wind, so lets not take things, especially our sense of self-importance, too seriously.

 

 

peace to all. x

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Very lovely, Mr Cow.

 

Thank you.

 

Mr. Songs

Edited August 4, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Pero]

If Raymond was suspended solely because of the cheerleader comment, I think that's pretty weak. Even if meant as a direct insult it's a totally weak insult.

 

As for people not joining because of the abrasiveness of the board or whatever... The TTB membership numbers are growing constantly. There are also always many guests on the board. This makes me think people like to read it whether abrasive or not, or even exactly because it is abrasive (after all that is more interesting than if everyone just kept singing kumbaya together), but just might not have the guts to join in. Kind of like watching TV I guess. We might like watching action and horror movies, it draws us in, but how many of us would dare to actually be in the action itself?

[Brian]

...

[Enishi]

Once you become more energetically sensitive you do start noticing the feelings and thoughts people put out on internet forums. Sometimes it makes me feel slightly nauseous.

 

I think it's to be expected though. When it comes to discussions centered around spiritual topics, you are reaching into the deepest core of a person and all their repressed pain tends to come to the fore.

[三江源]

If Raymond was suspended solely because of the cheerleader comment, I think that's pretty weak. Even if meant as a direct insult it's a totally weak insult.

 

As for people not joining because of the abrasiveness of the board or whatever... The TTB membership numbers are growing constantly. There are also always many guests on the board. This makes me think people like to read it whether abrasive or not, or even exactly because it is abrasive (after all that is more interesting than if everyone just kept singing kumbaya together), but just might not have the guts to join in. Kind of like watching TV I guess. We might like watching action and horror movies, it draws us in, but how many of us would dare to actually be in the action itself?

 

Hi Pero. I cant abide watching horror and violent action movies and as far as I know this is very common amongst spiritual practitioners. As Eckhart Tolle puts it, it is the pain body that enjoys watching these movies, they feed the pain body and it enjoys being in its own ambience.

 

As I see it the more abrasive the board habitually is, the more self selecting it becomes, and the "happy to be abrasive" types will happily join here, and those that avoid that ambience and certainly wouldnt ever choose to hang out in it, just think this place is awful indeed and very dismaying.

 

I miss very much many posters who have given up posting here because it's nature is not enjoyable due to the callous pettiness that is being elevated in this thread to the status of 'robust'.

 

Have you ever visited the AYP board? It is very interesting, people share and discuss intelligently.. wow, it makes taobums look like a drunken brawl after a prolonged happy hour after a football match.

 

Having said that, there are lots of great posters here who are skillful communicators and intelligent contributors, and I think the Taobums women are great.

 

So the question, to me, is, how far down the road do we let the board go?

 

You think cheerleader is a lame insult.. ok.. do you condone name calling and labelling as a practice on the board? I would like to see it added to the 'rules of conduct' of the board that it isnt condoned. I cant see that it is any part of constructive communication.

 

I see however, that the ever growing 'happy to be abrasive' part of the community might think name calling is actually part of normal conversation, that seems to be what they are used to and perhaps unwilling to think about questioningly. Is it desirable to label people, even if you are 'used to it'? I fail to see in what way it can be construed as anything other then dismissive and antagonistic.

 

It has been suggested to me that taobums has gone down the pan and is not worth bothering with.

 

I guess this is me trying to find out if that is unavoidably the case... maybe the future of the internet is public boards which are 'robust' ( euphemistically speaking) and private ones which are more genuine and interesting, where people feel comfortable to share deep things without a heckling from people that wander in and want to mouth off.

 

BTW Pero, this board has never been a khumbaya tepid place, I dont think that remotely reflects the nature of people who practise taoism. I think presenting a tepid polarity as a 'reason' for condoning lowering levels of communication skill doesnt stand up to scrutiny. (You dont want to chew raw calf bollocks? You a vegetarian?)

 

Being able to voice everything, positive and less positive, is crucial, of course, otherwise communication dries up totally, it is too limited and controlled. The point isnt about being all "I'm so in control of my emotions you never catch me expressing anything vulnerable or fiery" the point is to be civil in your mode of expression. And notions of civility seem to be fading here under the weight of those that are numbed to insensitivity,and advocate that others be equally numb.

[三江源]

Once you become more energetically sensitive you do start noticing the feelings and thoughts people put out on internet forums. Sometimes it makes me feel slightly nauseous.

 

I think it's to be expected though. When it comes to discussions centered around spiritual topics, you are reaching into the deepest core of a person and all their repressed pain tends to come to the fore.

 

I agree Enishi. It would be great if part of the general understanding of the code of conduct here was more multi dimensional.

[Pero]

Hi Pero. I cant abide watching horror and violent action movies and as far as I know this is very common amongst spiritual practitioners.

 

I think this is actually the first I've heard of it.

 

As Eckhart Tolle puts it, it is the pain body that enjoys watching these movies, they feed the pain body and it enjoys being in its own ambience.

 

I remember reading this though. It's an interesting observation. Although "pain body" is not in my vocabulary.

 

As I see it the more abrasive the board habitually is, the more self selecting it becomes, and the "happy to be abrasive" types will happily join here, and those that avoid that ambience and certainly wouldnt ever choose to hang out in it, just think this place is awful indeed and very dismaying.

 

Hm it's an interesting point, I guess I could be just too used to it to have a problem with it.

 

Have you ever visited the AYP board? It is very interesting, people share and discuss intelligently.. wow, it makes taobums look like a drunken brawl after a prolonged happy hour after a football match.

 

I have. They pretty much sing kumbaya. You see the thing is it's easy to get along when the majority of the members are doing more or less the same things and/or have similar views. Tao Bums is a much more varied place with some very contrasting views.

 

You think cheerleader is a lame insult.. ok.. do you condone name calling and labelling as a practice on the board?

 

I do not really condone name calling but I have no problem if someone calls me names and I have also done the same, been banned because of it and I have no problem with that either. I'm not sure what exactly you mean by labelling since in this case if he said supporter it would've been a lable again.

 

edit: though after rethinking it I suppose he could have just said "cat said..." and that would've been better.

 

Personally what I don't like is passive agressive posts and insults between the lines (though I won't claim I have never done either). I prefer things to be out in the open.

 

It has been suggested to me that taobums has gone down the pan and is not worth bothering with.

 

I don't think so.

 

BTW Pero, this board has never been a khumbaya tepid place, I dont think that remotely reflects the nature of people who practise taoism. I think presenting a tepid polarity as a 'reason' for condoning lowering levels of communication skill doesnt stand up to scrutiny.

 

Oh I agree.

 

(You dont want to chew raw calf bollocks? You a vegetarian?)

 

I don't understand this comment. Firstly, what is its point? And secondly to me (I could've misread it) it seems that it's directed toward someone who eats meat in which case it makes no sense. This one would be better posed to a vegetarian. Since cows are vegetarians what comes out is also vegetarian.

 

Being able to voice everything, positive and less positive, is crucial, of course, otherwise communication dries up totally, it is too limited and controlled. The point isnt about being all "I'm so in control of my emotions you never catch me expressing anything vulnerable or fiery" the point is to be civil in your mode of expression. And notions of civility seem to be fading here under the weight of those that are numbed to insensitivity,and advocate that others be equally numb.

 

I agree, except with the last sentence which I don't know if it's true or not.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Pero

[Pero]

Also, for sharing personal experience I really think it's better to do that in your practice section. Not just because of what you said but because personal experience are personal. The problem is that in your personal section it won't get much exposure. I think a solution to that could be a personal experience subforum which only registered and introduced members could read and post in. And it could be with more strict guidelines/rules and/or more heavily moderated.

[三江源]

Pero, that was the longest post I ever wrote!

 

The 'chew bollocks' thing in brackets was an example of a false assumption- false polarity, like "verbally crass board" and if it isnt that, then surely it must be "khumbaya" board.. ( obviously an erroneous assumption, a black and white polarity, allowing for no shades of refinement..)

 

I dont suggest Taobums be like AYP in it's uniformity but it just shows people can be interesting and agree to disagree gracefully and avoid personal comments..

 

anyway,.... so it goes, thanks for responding.. stuff to think about.

[三江源]

Also, for sharing personal experience I really think it's better to do that in your practice section. Not just because of what you said but because personal experience are personal. The problem is that in your personal section it won't get much exposure. I think a solution to that could be a personal experience subforum which only registered and introduced members could read and post in. And it could be with more strict guidelines/rules and/or more heavily moderated.

 

I have suggested this before and I think it's really good idea.

[三江源]

Actually I think I suggested there be 'invitation only' sections of the forum... which throws up it's own problems of people feeling excluded...

 

tricky stuff.

[Pero]

Pero, that was the longest post I ever wrote!

 

 

I dont suggest Taobums be like AYP in it's uniformity but it just shows people can be interesting and agree to disagree gracefully and avoid personal comments..

 

Perhaps personal comments are more difficult to avoid in spiritual discussions?

 

Actually I think I suggested there be 'invitation only' sections of the forum... which throws up it's own problems of people feeling excluded...

 

Hm yes...

[三江源]

 

 

 

Perhaps personal comments are more difficult to avoid in spiritual discussions?

 

 

 

Hm yes...

 

Pero , you and I could just keep answering one another, for the simple pleasure of the pinging ponging of harmony, and turn this into a chat thread discussing clothing or movies or our favourite food. It could go on for years and years until one day a new member joins just to make an announcement in this thread that one of us has passed away... it will be me cos I'm older. I could get myself channeled through a receptive tao bum just to keep the flow going, and keep you informed on The After Life and try to explain in what sense it isnt very "after" after all...

 

 

Just an idea, ya know. I'm full of them..

[ralis]

[Pero]

Pero , you and I could just keep answering one another, for the simple pleasure of the pinging ponging of harmony, and turn this into a chat thread discussing clothing or movies or our favourite food. It could go on for years and years until one day a new member joins just to make an announcement in this thread that one of us has passed away... it will be me cos I'm older. I could get myself channeled through a receptive tao bum just to keep the flow going, and keep you informed on The After Life and try to explain in what sense it isnt very "after" after all...

 

 

Just an idea, ya know. I'm full of them..

 

LOL!

[ShaktiMama]

Pero, that was the longest post I ever wrote!

 

The 'chew bollocks' thing in brackets was an example of a false assumption- false polarity, like "verbally crass board" and if it isnt that, then surely it must be "khumbaya" board.. ( obviously an erroneous assumption, a black and white polarity, allowing for no shades of refinement..)

 

I dont suggest Taobums be like AYP in it's uniformity but it just shows people can be interesting and agree to disagree gracefully and avoid personal comments..

 

anyway,.... so it goes, thanks for responding.. stuff to think about.

 

just will share a personal insight based on my experiences of running and owning forums on Kundalini for about 15 years. And those groups can get really ugly...especially when the vegans/animal rights people get attacking everyone in the name of spirituality. Honestly, IMO, those have got to be some of the most violent people I have ever met. We eventually had to outlaw "food fights" and make a separate group for them. We also had to outlaw religious evangelism and have them go to separate groups.

 

I have very few rules.

 

I keep in mind that everbody has a bad hair day now and then but if every day is a bad hair day then I will moderate them. I have only banned people for spamming products or porn. It is automatic. If they want to be reconsidered they can take it up with me. No one has. I have the controls set so everyone is moderated until they can prove they are civil. If there is a very large group like this one I know that is unrealistic.

 

 

After a couple of posts one can get the idea where things are heading. A lot of people join and don't post so they are never off moderation.

 

The rules are Sandbox rules.

 

Play nice.

Don't throw sand or toys at one another.

If you can't play nice pick up your toys and go home. Doesn't mean you cant come back but maybe you need a time out.

 

How I would interpret this to someone is if you saw a child treating another child in a nasty way like we see on a forum what would we do?

 

Sometimes I place this on a forum front page

"May our communities become those of people who learn from everyone instead of teaching to everyone!"...Anonymous.

This community is sacred space, a temple ground. Please remove your *shoes* before entering.

We are all of different backgrounds, traditions, and nationalities. Please respect that.

 

 

Being a grownup doesnt mean the heart and soul is no longer childlike. Those that attack the hardest are most often the most wounded. I keep that in mind. So sometimes there happens an opportunity to heal those wounded hearts. That's why I let people continue to beat up on me for awhile. It shows me where they are at inside when they continue to attack someone who is open.

 

If anyone thinks my groups are tame think again. We have very high level martial artists on my groups. You'd want them covering your back in a dark alley and some have for me. I love them dearly. They consider their martial art as a path to enlightenment and to be a better human being. They are well educated. They know how to play nice. They don't have to prove themselves by mouthing off and attacking the leader to show everyone how good they are. They don't need that. They know how to disagree without having to draw blood. But they can deliver a sharp rap wake up call to the head if needed. We share leadership and healing in the groups.

 

Glenn Morris and I used to discuss this in terms of a dojo. Every know and then some smart ass wanders into the dojo wanting to prove himself against the master. The master lets one of his knights (deshis) take care of the problem. It's good practice for the deshis and they do it also out of love and giri to their Sensei. Sometimes that happens for me on my own forums. This is not my forum so I don't expect anyone to step in.

 

It takes a while for a community to develop a personality. All communities do have a group egregore. One has to ask themselves what kind of egregore do you want to belong to and why. The moderators are the caretakers/nurturers of the egregore.

 

s

[Mal]

This thread seems to have played out it's energy and since Raymond's suspension is over I'll use this as an opportunity to correct the title and post this reminder.

 

If a member feels that any post breaches our insult policy. Please hit report to bring it to a moderators attention and we will try our best to deal with the issue.

 

Personally I see no reason why strong robust debate has any need to descend into insults and name calling.

 

If people feel they need to resort to insults to get their point across, they are going to end up siting on the sidelines unable to participate in the discussion.

 

Questioning moderator decisions is encouraged here at TTB so I thank those who added their opinions to this thread. It was most helpful for me to get a sense of how the community felt about this issue.