Challenges for a Newbie

[Student_Forever]

I think and experience this a lot of times... Whenever I start on the spiritual path or resume your journey, that the Sensual atractions are very very strong... They tend to distract me and pull me back in the web... It is a very strong force and sometimes very difficult to resist. Then sometimes the mind plays tricks and justifies that "maybe this is just a reward from God"...

 

I know (atleast I think) the answer is - "To keep doing the practice/prayers/meditation etc and ignore the senses..

 

But the Questions is - Do you feel the same way and if YES then what do you do to stay on path and win over those senses?

[Sahaj Nath]

I think and experience this a lot of times... Whenever I start on the spiritual path or resume your journey, that the Sensual atractions are very very strong... They tend to distract me and pull me back in the web... It is a very strong force and sometimes very difficult to resist. Then sometimes the mind plays tricks and justifies that "maybe this is just a reward from God"...

 

I know (atleast I think) the answer is - "To keep doing the practice/prayers/meditation etc and ignore the senses..

 

But the Questions is - Do you feel the same way and if YES then what do you do to stay on path and win over those senses?

 

 

hmm...

 

how old are you? you can just say over or under 20. i'm asking because with stuff like that, puberty/adolescence tends to be a factor.

 

and what the heck do you mean by "sensual attractions"? that's extremely non-specific. are you talking about girls/sex/masturbation, or are you talking about sensual experiences that have come from your practices that you can't seem to stop chasing?

 

assuming that you're young, my general rule is that i don't walk paths that are in conflict with my nature. some things are just a matter of discipline and sacrifice, but sometimes it's an unhealthy practice of suppression that's taking place, and i wouldn't advize doing that. so it really depends.

 

it would also really help to know what your practices are.

 

btw, welcome to the Bums!

Edited August 5, 2010 by Hundun

[Capital]

He might be using sensual to mean attractions of the senses, I'm not sure. As in he gets caught in his senses because, due to what happens through the course of meditation, his sight seems more... powerful? The lights is more open suddenly, and he notices it; it illuminates more than it causes a glare. They way it bends seems more apparent. This happens to me, and it gets frustrating when you make another of the small steps in meditation and you get lost in the sensation of it all like a noob.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Capital

[Sahaj Nath]

He might be using sensual to mean attractions of the senses, I'm not sure. As in he gets caught in his senses because, due to what happens through the course of meditation, his sight seems more... powerful? The lights is more open suddenly, and he notices it; it illuminates more than it causes a glare. They way it bends seems more apparent. This happens to me, and it gets frustrating when you make another of the small steps in meditation and you get lost in the sensation of it all like a noob.

 

yeah, i hear that. that would fall under option 2 of experiences that come from his practices.

 

there just needs to be more clarity is all.

[松永道]

I think and experience this a lot of times... Whenever I start on the spiritual path or resume your journey, that the Sensual atractions are very very strong... They tend to distract me and pull me back in the web... It is a very strong force and sometimes very difficult to resist. Then sometimes the mind plays tricks and justifies that "maybe this is just a reward from God"...

 

I know (atleast I think) the answer is - "To keep doing the practice/prayers/meditation etc and ignore the senses..

 

But the Questions is - Do you feel the same way and if YES then what do you do to stay on path and win over those senses?

 

There is a Chinese story called the Journey West - it's arguably the most popular story in Chinese history. The main characters are Tangsung the monk and his three protectors, sand monk, piggy, and the monkey king. I won't go into great detail now as I have to run, but basically the three protectors are representations of egoic cultivation.

 

When one starts on the path, he is like Sand Monk, the least skilled of the three, and also the most vanilla. Sincere and undistracted. Piggy, the middle stage, his Chinese name is actually Pig of Eight Renouncements, Zhu Bajie, is a sincere cultivator, but also constantly distracted by the sensory world. Monkey King is the high level ego, sincere, skilled and undistracted. But he is still ego. Superego is the Monk, Tangsung, the only one with an actual mission (the protectors just protect him on the way), but too weak to complete the journey without the ego.

 

Good story.

 

All cultivators go through cyclical stages, sand monk to piggy to monkey king and back to sand monk again at the next stage in the journey. No need to create internal friction, accept where you are at, and when your sincerity buds out from underneath whatever binge just overwhelmed you, keep practicing. Sincerity is the real root of will power, just don't rush it.

[Gerard]

There is a Chinese story called the Journey West - it's arguably the most popular story in Chinese history. The main characters are Tangsung the monk and his three protectors, sand monk, piggy, and the monkey king. I won't go into great detail now as I have to run, but basically the three protectors are representations of egoic cultivation.

 

When one starts on the path, he is like Sand Monk, the least skilled of the three, and also the most vanilla. Sincere and undistracted. Piggy, the middle stage, his Chinese name is actually Pig of Eight Renouncements, Zhu Bajie, is a sincere cultivator, but also constantly distracted by the sensory world. Monkey King is the high level ego, sincere, skilled and undistracted. But he is still ego. Superego is the Monk, Tangsung, the only one with an actual mission (the protectors just protect him on the way), but too weak to complete the journey without the ego.

 

Good story.

 

All cultivators go through cyclical stages, sand monk to piggy to monkey king and back to sand monk again at the next stage in the journey. No need to create internal friction, accept where you are at, and when your sincerity buds out from underneath whatever binge just overwhelmed you, keep practicing. Sincerity is the real root of will power, just don't rush it.

 

Hahahaha. Love this stuff. There was even a Japanese TV series about this stuff: Monkey Magic. Has anyone seen it?

[goldisheavy]

I think and experience this a lot of times... Whenever I start on the spiritual path or resume your journey, that the Sensual atractions are very very strong... They tend to distract me and pull me back in the web... It is a very strong force and sometimes very difficult to resist. Then sometimes the mind plays tricks and justifies that "maybe this is just a reward from God"...

 

I know (atleast I think) the answer is - "To keep doing the practice/prayers/meditation etc and ignore the senses..

 

But the Questions is - Do you feel the same way and if YES then what do you do to stay on path and win over those senses?

 

You have to incorporate the senses and the sensory input into your practice. Don't try to reject the senses. Don't try to pull away from them either. Instead, you can contemplate assigning less significance, less weight to the sense objects, but other than that, don't screw around with the senses too much.

 

In the spiritual practice everything is used and there is no such such as a refuse. Nothing is discarded or shut out.

[thelerner]

When you start quieting the mind a strange thing often happens. Thoughts and in your case sensuality hits much harder. The mind is usually moving in a 1,000 directions, literally a monkey mind. When you slow it down, put it in the spot light, the remaining thoughts come louder and more vividly.

 

The classic solution is ..this to will pass. Thoughts come and go, hopefully quieting with time and skillful practice.

 

 

Michael

[Student_Forever]

Thanks for your responses...

 

The senses or sensual attractions I mean are NOT just Girls etc.. As you know there are 5 sense organs we all have through wich we percieve the world... Most often than not we are atached to these senses ( and hence sensual attraction).. Whether it is Tasty Food (Organ of taste), Soft clothes & bed (Organ of touch - Skin pleasure), Desire to see beautiful things (Like NYC, movies and yes beautiful bodies etc), Desire for nice smells, and finaly ofcourse Sexual organs... So these 5 senses are what I think I need get over as I proceed on the journey.

 

I am not sure how it is related to my age (thought I am above 20)... But I am still attracted to fulfil these desires and I think it continues til we die and the spiritual practice is the way to get free from this web of senses.

 

My Question was form fellow brothers and sisters.. How do you control these desires... ? Yes one answer is to ignore these with strng will and keep doing the practice..

 

What elese you do to control the desires and NOT become slave of the senses or the desires.

 

Thanks

[Sahaj Nath]

Thanks for your responses...

 

The senses or sensual attractions I mean are NOT just Girls etc.. As you know there are 5 sense organs we all have through wich we percieve the world... Most often than not we are atached to these senses ( and hence sensual attraction).. Whether it is Tasty Food (Organ of taste), Soft clothes & bed (Organ of touch - Skin pleasure), Desire to see beautiful things (Like NYC, movies and yes beautiful bodies etc), Desire for nice smells, and finaly ofcourse Sexual organs... So these 5 senses are what I think I need get over as I proceed on the journey.

 

got it. understood.

 

I am not sure how it is related to my age (thought I am above 20)...

 

because if you were going through puberty/adolescence it could be detrimental to your development to try to control or suppress what is a very natural biological process. i would have recommended ways of re-thinking your interpretation of your desires so that you could better honor them in a healthy fashion and not make them into an enemy of your spiritual progress.

 

But I am still attracted to fulfil these desires and I think it continues til we die and the spiritual practice is the way to get free from this web of senses.

 

My Question was form fellow brothers and sisters.. How do you control these desires... ? Yes one answer is to ignore these with strng will and keep doing the practice..

 

What elese you do to control the desires and NOT become slave of the senses or the desires.

 

Thanks

 

the general insights offered already are pretty good ones. 松永道 is right-on with the story, as is goldisheavy.

 

it's difficult for me to offer anything particularly useful, however, because i still don't know what you practice, and that would go far in the way of understanding your philosophy & worldview and how that factors into your struggle.

 

for instance, i might recommend vipassana meditation in conjunction with an ecstatic practice, as a means honoring everything that's arising, while at the same time dis-identifying with the reactivity. it has done wonders for me in this regard, so that's how i have personally dealt with what you've mentioned. but i'm not sure if that's a good fit because i don't know what you already do. i wasn't trying to be nosy or pushy or anything, i was just trying to be as helpful as possible.

 

take care.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Hundun

[Birch]

"Monkey Magic. Has anyone seen it?"

 

One of my favourites as a kid!

I always wondered why the monk seemed so wimpy. Haven't seen it since however. I wonder if seeing it again would change anything now --tries to recall Piggy move----

[goldisheavy]

My Question was form fellow brothers and sisters.. How do you control these desires... ? Yes one answer is to ignore these with strng will and keep doing the practice..

 

What elese you do to control the desires and NOT become slave of the senses or the desires.

 

Thanks

 

Have you heard this expression from a Zen master that goes something like, "The best way to control a cow is to give it wide pasture?" Something worth thinking about.

 

Another way to do what you seem to want to do, is to contemplate the drawbacks of various sense objects. So, for example, you might like nice shoes because of how they look and smell and so on. Well, if you think about shoes, are there any drawbacks? Tying shoelaces is a pain in the ass. Putting shoes on without untying them is annoying and sometimes requires an extra tool. Sometimes even the best looking shoes will hurt your feet. Shoes wear out and need to be replaced. Also, the very same shoe you think is pleasing to the eye can be considered ugly by someone else, and you may receive negative comments or subtle discrimination because of that. So see how I just went over the negatives of a sense object? This leads one to realize that shoes have good and bad aspects to them, and it becomes harder to be obsessed with them.

 

The method of contemplating the negative aspects of sense objects is a very powerful method and it works very quickly and very deeply, and that's why it's important not to overdo it, or even better, don't bother with it. I put it here in case you are so disturbed by sense objects, that you don't have any peace at all. If things are a little brighter and a little more pleasant than normal, that's OK, just roll with it. Don't try to fight it. If some sense objects appear to completely possess your mind such that you can't even think of anything else, you may want to try the "contemplate the negative aspects" method as an antidote. But be careful, because dwelling on the negatives can lead to a bad situation, so it's a dangerous tool. So if you decide to use this tool, be responsible in how you use it or you will become depressed and you'll go into a dark place.

[Mokona]

Changing habits can be helped by making step by step goals to follow and being a bit hypersensitive to the actual habit you want to break. Watch that habit and slow down and change it, sorta like the Zen meditation of watching your thoughts and letting them drift past. It is easy to get caught up - I'm 23 and my gaze tends to roam when I talk to females, still. I just slow down and pay attention to it, then it is easier to relax and gaze into the eyes of the person, and focus on what is important, not on what the body wants to do.

 

Do it enough and it becomes a new habit and you'll have washed away your old one.

 

Using this same thing with a strange condition I used to have removed the tendency to repeat my every sentence a second time quietly under my breath. This habit no longer exists. Going for biting of the nails next, the most difficult one to date.

[adept]

I'm 23 and my gaze tends to roam when I talk to females, still.

 

I'm in my 40's and my gaze does a lot of roaming. :D

[Student_Forever]

Thanks All for your resposes,

 

Its a journey to Control the senses and focus inward...

 

Regards