BOTH SIDES OF NOW

[lienshan]

Say Dao

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is titled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Thus is the desire of heavenly-nonexistence caused by observing their mystery.

Selfish desires comes from studying its manifestation.

Both sides of now are same appearance and different words.

The united meaning is to arrive at dark and the exit of darkening.

The gate of dawn is the multitude beauty of darkness.

 

Line 3 says, that the starting point of nonexistence (wu) is the word 'heavenly'.

Thus is the term heng-wu meant to be read as one word meaning heavenly-nonexistence.

 

Laozi's target is maybe this: http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=1073&if=en

 

I read 'their' as referring to 'mothers' and 'its' as referring to 'mystery'.

The inplicit question is maybe: who is the mother of the mothers?

 

I read heng-you as corresponding to the Guicang hexagram 32 name 'independent I = selfish'.

Edited August 11, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Okay. I see no real problem with this version. Still cluncky but valid, IMO.

 

The inplicit question is maybe: who is the mother of the mothers?

 

The Mothers, in my understanding, are 'Wu' and 'Chi'. (The Mothers being the source of Tao's manifestations.)

 

However, I don't know if this understanding can be supported using only Lao Tzu's words in the TTC.

 

(My reasoning behind this is that immediately following the Big Bang [the end of Singularity] there was pure energy (Chi) and the early stages of the base elements (Wu, Mystery, potential). The interaction between Chi and Wu 'gave birth to' the base elements (and the formation of the 'first star', which is where the base elements we formed).

 

So the mother of the mothers would be Tao but we really can't say this because it would suggest that Tao is the source of all things whereas Tao is actually all things and all non-things; Tao is just a word, a concept, not a thing in and of itself.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

The 5th line is the most important line, according to your walk the middle way

It's too the most important line, according to my numerology 6-6-6-6-7-6-6-6-6

7 is a steady line and all 6s are changing lines, according to the Zhouyi:

Water becomes Heaven, when all the 6s have changed.

7 is a changing line and all the 6s are steady lines, according to the Guicang:

7 is what remains, when Water becomes Heaven.

Water becomes Heaven means to evaporate, to disappear.

 

Line 5: Thus is the desire of heavenly-nonexistence caused by observing their mystery

 

The term in bold might be the same as the mohist term The Intention of Heaven (tian yi) or The Desire of Heaven (tian yi)

yi has the meanings: a thought / an idea / intention / expectations / wish / desire

http://chinese.dsturgeon.net/text.pl?node=1072&if=en a quote from this book 7:

'When I do what Heaven desires, Heaven will also do what I desire.'

 

Line 5: Thus is The Heavenly Desire caused by observing their beauty

 

Laozi's inplicit question is now: has heavenly-nonexistence either blue or brown eyes ??

Edited August 11, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

The 5th line is the most important line, according to your walk the middle way

 

Line 5: Thus is the desire of heavenly-nonexistence caused by observing their mystery

 

Yes, I would agree with that. Observing yo and having desires for the material is pretty much a given. Observing (realizing) wu is a little more mysterious. (My play with words.) But without wu we do not have your 'both sides of now'. And I agree, the middle path (Lao Tzu used middle road) is the harmony between wu and yo.

 

Laozi's inplicit question is now: has heavenly-nonexistence either blue or brown eyes ??

 

Hehehe. Yeah, for you (your location) blue eyes are more common so if I were you I would go for blue. More options.

[lienshan]

Selfless desires to observe its mystery. (I have a problem with the word 'selfishness' in that line.

Thanks for your selfless assistence

 

Say, speakable unindependent, Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different words.

Identical means to arrive at night at the end of darkening.

The gate of dusky dawn and the mystery of the many.

 

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty.

 

I hope that you can confirm, that the 5th line is a changing line?

That'll say, the word 'desires' is meant to be read both as a noun and as a verb.

'by means of' is synonymous with the mohist 'model/tool' fa.

'Heavens Will' or 'Heavens Intention' is the third of Mozi's three fa.

Observation is his second fa. Confirmed by sagekings is his first fa.

Laozi does too comment on Mozi's three fa in the four last lines of chapter 25.

Here's another quote from Mozi's Book 7:

 

tian zhi yi bu yu da guo zhi gong xiao guo

 

Heaven its intention doesn't desire a big state goes to attack a small state.

Edited August 12, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Thanks for your selfless assistence

 

Hehehe. Actually, my efforts are a little selfish because I enjoy talking about Taoist philosophy and as a result of our exchanges there are others who are viewing this thread and that causes "me" joy.

 

Say, speakable unindependent, Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different words.

Identical means to arrive at night at the end of darkening.

The gate of dusky dawn and the mystery of the many.

 

Nice.

 

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty.

 

Exactly. "Their beauty" referring to the beauty of the Mystery (not the Manifest).

 

I hope that you can confirm, that the 5th line is a changing line?

That'll say, the word 'desires' is meant to be read both as a noun and as a verb.

'by means of' is synonymous with the mohist 'model/tool' fa.

'Heavens Will' or 'Heavens Intention' is the third of Mozi's three fa.

Observation is his second fa. Confirmed by sagekings is his first fa.

Laozi does too comment on Mozi's three fa in the four last lines of chapter 25.

Here's another quote from Mozi's Book 7:

 

I have no problem agreeing with that. In fact, I have already suggested it many time in my own way. Our state, or condition regarding how submerged we are in yo or wu is in constant flux. We are never total wu for any length of time although we can be total yo for extended periods of time, even our entire lifetime.

 

For example; when we meditate we try to ignore yo and submerge into the depths of wu but when we need attaind to physical needs we might need to submerge into total yo.

 

The ideal, I think, is to maintain a comfortable harmony somewhere between wu and yo. This way both our physical needs and our spiritual nedds are attended to.

 

Sure, our 'position' between the two will vary depending on externals as well as our own random thoughts. And I think that this is why it is important to understand the workings of Chi, that is, Yin and Yang.

 

tian zhi yi bu yu da guo zhi gong xiao guo

 

Heaven its intention doesn't desire a big state goes to attack a small state.

 

Now this is a completely different story. One very well worthy of discussion, I think, because the base concept for that line can also be used regarding the interactions between individuals as well as between states.

 

I will be glad to go there whenever you are ready for it.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

Say, speakable unindependent, Dao ................................................ 2 words

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause ............................ |

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly ....................... 3 fa

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers .............. |

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty ... 2 readings

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation ........... |

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different words ......... 3 fa

Identical means to arrive at night at the end of darkening .................... |

The gate of dusky dawn and the mystery of the many ........................ 2 meanings

 

 

My numerologic logic is based on this Shuo Gua (8th wing) quote:

 

The number 3 was assigned to Heaven,

the number 2 to Earth,

and from these come the numbers.

 

My numerologic reading is:

 

There are 2 times 3 fa in the DDJ chapter 1, so fa must be earthly.

There are 3 times 2 words/readings/meanings, so words/readings/meanings are heavenly.

 

Heaven's Will or Heaven's Intention is consequently Man's Will or Man's Intention

 

 

Laozi wrote chapter 1 in nine vertical columns of characters; I see this image:

 

The 2 times 3 fa are from that point of view like two solid (true) mountains.

The 3 times 2 words/readings/meanings are from that point of view like three flowing mountain streams.

The extra character of the line in the middle makes it change into a river flowing towards the sea.

Edited August 12, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Okay. Hehehe.

 

I can speak only to the words and the concepts. I have no knowledge, nor any desire for knowledge, regarding how numerology plays a role in the TTC.

 

So once I believe you are consistent with the concepts in the chapters I will have little to add to the discussion.

 

Yes, the river flowing to the sea is an important concept in Taoism.

 

Heaven's Will or Heaven's Intention is consequently Man's Will or Man's Intention

 

Yes, that is as it should be (but is not necessarily how it is in many aspects of man's life).

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

I have no knowledge, nor any desire for knowledge,

regarding how numerology plays a role in the TTC.

I'm only doublechecking my translation. Laozi was a proffesionel diviner at the Zhou court,

so it's obvious, that he 'watermarked' his text by means of divinatory numerology,

in order to prevent falsifications and to help readers with knowledge of divination.

 

He did too 'watermark' his text by means of the first and the last word of each line.

These two 'inplicit' sentences of nine words are not first and last in an english translation:

 

Say, speakable unindependent, Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Thus: heavenly selfless desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different words.

Identical means to arrive at night at the end of darkening.

The gate of dusky dawn and the mystery of the many.

 

Say term nonexistence existent Thus selfish now Identical dusky

 

Dao clause starting point mothers beauty manifestation words end gate

 

The first line says, that if nonexistence is existing,

then can both evening dusk and morning dusk be present at the same time.

 

The second line says, that if Dao is the starting point of the mothers,

then is the manifestation of their beauty the gate to death.

 

Most translations seem to translate it as a noun and that is why I am glad that I bought Henricks' translation

because he uses the word 'Way' almost exclusively.

Try check your Henricks' translation as I check my translation.

Does he express Laozi's Intention or does he express Henrick's Intention?

 

Many chapter 1 translators break the last two lines like this:

 

tong wei zhi xuan xuan zhi you xuan

zhong miao zhi men

 

Which change the meaning of the two 'inplicit' sentences into:

 

Say term nonexistence existent Thus selfish now Identical multitude

 

Dao clause starting point mothers beauty manifestation words dark gate

Edited August 12, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Hi Lienshan,

 

Yes, I know you are working with your own work. I just wanted to let you know that there are areas where you are working that I will have no input for. But where I can and feel comfortable doing so I will.

 

Henricks has recieved much scholastic acclaim for his work with the TTC. Sure, there are a few places where I don't care too much for his word choice but that is just my feelings and probably has nothing to do with his accuracy.

 

As to Lao Tzu's interest in divination, I have paid no attention to that because I am not a believer.

 

Interesting what you said about dusk. Yes, they are the same thing but they are different. This is because to process is reversed. Reversal (reversion) is an important concept in Taoist Philosophy. We could even associate dusk with the concept of cycles.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

Interesting what you said about dusk. Yes, they are the same thing but they are different.

This is because to process is reversed.

Evening dusk means dark to the east and darkening to the west to me.

Morning dusk means dark to the west and brightening to the east to me.

Line 8: Identical (dusk) means to arrive at night at the end of darkening.

 

My doublecheck told me, that my line 5 should be like this:

 

Former heavenly nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

 

gu means both thus/consequently and former/old

 

'selfless' is not like 'nonexistence' a noun, and a noun in the specific position

links to the grammar rule expressed in line 2, because 'nonexisting' is banned,

because it would make the 'can be a title' of line 5 to be an independent clause.

The corresponding vertical line is then much more clearcut:

 

Say term nonexistence existent Former selfish now identical dusky.

Edited August 12, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Evening dusk means dark to the east and darkening to the west to me.

Morning dusk means dark to the west and brightening to the east to me.

Line 8: Identical (dusk) means to arrive at night at the end of darkening.

 

My doublecheck told me, that my line 5 should be like this:

 

Former heavenly nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

 

gu means both thus/consequently and former/old

 

'selfless' is not like 'nonexistence' a noun, and a noun in the specific position

links to the grammar rule expressed in line 2, because 'nonexisting' is banned,

because it would make the 'can be a title' of line 5 to be an independent clause.

The corresponding vertical line is then much more clearcut:

 

Say term nonexistence existent Former selfish now identical dusky.

 

Agree about the dusk.

 

"Former heavenly nonexistence" is a problem for me. I have already associated your "heavenly nonexistence" with wu, Mystery. To say 'former wu', or 'former Mystery' makes no sense because it is undefined.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

hi Marplehead

 

My translation of Dao De Jing Chapter 1 is now finished

 

The three lines in italic are 'negative',

that'll say not expressing Laozi's own philosophy!

Line 1 demonstrates the foolishness of nicknaming Dao.

Line 5 shows the consequence of Mozi's 'Heavens Intention' nonsens.

Line 9 is nicknaming the various Schools of Thought at the Ji Gate in Jixia.

The other six lines are expressing Laozi's own philosophy and points of view:

 

 

Say speakable unindependent Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Former heavenly nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different compliments.

Identical means to arrive at dusk as the darkening exits.

The gate of the darkness of the twilights and the mystery of the many.

 

 

The two vertical lines of the first and the last character of each line are:

 

Say term nonexistence existent Former selfish Now identical twilights.

Dao clause Starting point mothers beauty manifestation compliment exits gate.

 

'Dao clause' means that all the following words must form an 'independent clause'

Edited August 12, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

hi Marplehead

 

My translation of Dao De Jing Chapter 1 is now finished

 

The three lines in italic are 'negative',

that'll say not expressing Laozi's own philosophy!

Line 1 demonstrates the foolishness of nicknaming Dao.

Line 5 shows the consequence of Mozi's 'Heavens Intention' nonsens.

Line 9 is nicknaming the various Schools of Thought at the Ji Gate in Jixia.

The other six lines are expressing Laozi's own philosophy and points of view:

 

 

Say speakable unindependent Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled heavenly.

Naming the existent is a matter for the tenthousand mothers.

Former heavenly nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different compliments.

Identical means to arrive at dusk as the darkening exits.

The gate of the darkness of the twilights and the mystery of the many.

 

 

The two vertical lines of the first and the last character of each line are:

 

Say term nonexistence existent Former selfish Now identical twilights.

Dao clause Starting point mothers beauty manifestation compliment exits gate.

 

'Dao clause' means that all the following words must form an 'independent clause'

 

Okay. Let me share Dr. Wang's Chapter 1 just for comparison:

 

Tao may be spoken of and it is not a constant Tao.

Its essence may be manifested and it is not a constant manifestation.

As Wu, it marks the beginning of all beings;

as Yo, it is the mother for all beings.

Therefore,

As true Wu, it is to show its transmuting appearance (of Yo);

As true Yo, it is to show its transmuting disappearance (into Wu).

The two emanate from the same; they are different manifestations of the same.

It is profound and profound. This is the gateway to all mysteries.

 

Some differences, of course, but not all that serious.

 

I still think you need to refine yours a little more to make it easier to read but that's just a thought.

 

So what's next? Are you going to try to apply your theory to all the chapters?

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

I still think you need to refine yours a little more to make it easier to read but that's just a thought.

Say speakable unindependent Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

 

Say Dao is an independent clause.

An independent clause is a clause that can stand by itself.

An independent clause consist of a verb + a noun.

That, which serves to make the verb and the noun an independent clause,

is the _ between the verb and the noun; e.g. Say_Dao

 

_ is not nonexistence, because SayDao is not an independent clause.

And Say_Dao is speakable unindependent, because how to pronounce _ ?

_ becomes dependent of the verb and the noun when pronounced 'blank space'!

 

The theoretical question is ofcourse, whether wu_wei is an independent clause?

 

 

Tao may be spoken of and it is not a constant Tao.

Its essence may be manifested and it is not a constant manifestation

 

Some differences, of course, but not all that serious.

Say constant Tao = SayconstantTao

Say_constant_Tao = Say constant Tao

 

because _ is not = constant

Edited August 13, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. Sorry Lienshan. You have taken me as far as I can go with you on this. For me to make any further judgements would be wrong.

 

This is your work and only you need be at peace with it.

 

Interesting question to the concept of wu wei though. Yes, I think that wu wei is an independent clause. The concept, if fully understood, can stand alone on its own merits.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

hi Marplehead

 

 

I do understand, that it's almost impossible for a taoist to swallow

that Laozi in his parable compared Tao

to the 'blank space' between the verb and the noun of an independent clause

 

 

Thanks for a nice conversation

[Marblehead]

hi Marplehead

 

 

I do understand, that it's almost impossible for a taoist to swallow

that Laozi in his parable compared Tao

to the 'blank space' between the verb and the noun of an independent clause

 

 

Thanks for a nice conversation

 

Yes, I enjoyed it as well. And the thread did a lot of views. Many more than I thought it would. Hopefully it has helped someone along their path.

 

Actuall, I accept Tao as being between a verb and a noun and this is because it is sometimes used as a verb as in "the Way" and other times as a noun used to describe every thing that is including energy and potential.

 

Now don't just fade away. Get involved in other threads or start another one. Okay?

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

Yes, I think that wu wei is an independent clause.

The concept, if fully understood, can stand alone on its own merits.

Laozi's pointe of line 3 is in my reading,

that nonexistence (wu) cannot be named, if Dao is named,

but nonexistence (wu) can be named, if Dao is not named.

 

He used the character zhi as an substitution for Dao in order to prove his statement.

 

zhi spoken means: go to, arrive at, exit (when at the end of a line), genetive function: Y of X

zhi unspoken means: an auxillary character, that cancells the independence of a clause

(used t.ex. in poems to place the noun of an independent clause at the end of a line to make it ryhme)

 

Line 3 can thus be read differently, depending of whether zhi is a spoken character or an unspoken character!

 

zhi spoken: wu ming tian di zhi shi

nonexistence is named heaven and the starting point of earth

 

zhi unspoken: wu ming tian di zhi shi

the starting point of nonexistence is named earth of heaven

 

'earth of heaven' can too be translated 'heavenly', but the meaning is identical: The Son of Heaven

That'll say, nonexistence (wu) means 'an illusion', when Dao is unspoken.

That'll say, wu wei (nonexistence acted) means illusion acted, when Dao is unspoken; in modern terms: bluffing!

 

The zhi spoken definition of wu 'heaven and the starting point of earth' means the horizon.

 

All translations into english cheat with the grammar, assuming that Laozi's grammar was as clumsy as mine,

and treat the two characters tian di as one character, changing Laozi's words into:

 

nonexistense is named the starting point of heaven and earth

 

So wu wei (nonexistence acted) isn't an independent clause, when Dao is spoken,

because neither the horizon nor the Big Bang can be acted.

Edited August 14, 2010 by lienshan

[Marblehead]

Laozi's pointe of line 3 is in my reading,

that nonexistence (wu) cannot be named, if Dao is named,

but nonexistence (wu) can be named, if Dao is not named.

 

...

 

So wu wei (nonexistence acted) isn't an independent clause, when Dao is spoken,

because neither the horizon nor the Big Bang can be acted.

 

But I would argue that "wu" cannot be named because it is potential, not "some thing". That is why I use the word "Mystery".

 

And then, as we know, Dao (sheeesh! You guy are going to get me to start using this new spelling of the word.) cannot be spoken so 'wu wei' is an independent clause. Hewhehe.

 

Actually, it is my opinion that even "wu" cannot be spoken. It can be only pointed to.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

"Mystery".

dear Master Marblehead

 

 

Maybe more of the readers of this tread think: aha a Master; no smoke without fire; so respect!

 

That's the "mystery" of titles: it's an illusion; it's nonexistence; but respect!

 

 

Say speakable unindependent Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point of nonexistence is entitled Earth of Heaven.

The mothers of existence are named the tenthousand things.

The former Earth of Heaven nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

The selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different compliments.

Identical means to arrive at dusk as the darkening exits.

The gate of twilights darkens the mystery of the multitude.

[Marblehead]

Yea!!!

 

"... the Mystery of the multitude."

 

Ah!, yes, titles and names. We have had two long-lived threads recently concerning what "I" and "Self" is. Really, we cannot point to any specific thing that identifies what/who we are. My name is the Manifest; what I am is the Mystery.

 

Same with Tao and even Wu. These are just names we have given the concepts so that we can talk about them.

 

However, in the Manifest, there are some things that are definable and change so slowly that we can attach a name and all will agree that it is what we have called it.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

hi Marplehead

 

I think, that I have misunderstood the function of the character zhi unspoken:

 

OBJECT VERB zhi SUBJECT

 

The independent clause is OBJECT VERB

But zhi unspoken reverse OBJECT and SUBJECT into:

 

SUBJECT VERB OBJECT

 

Where SUBJECT VERB is the independent clause.

 

Translating line 4 according to the above produces this:

 

Line 4: The mothers are named the existence of the tenthousand things.

 

Treating line 9 in the same way (wan=adjective and wu=noun) makes multitude=adjective and mystery=noun:

 

Line 9: The gate darkens the twilights of the multitudinous mystery.

 

Treating line 3 in the same way is a problem, because tian isn't an adjective.

The character di should thus not be translated 'earth',

because it's having the function of making the preceeding character (tian) an adjective:

 

Line 3: The starting point is named the nonexistence of the heavenly ...

 

The ... is like the last words of the lines 4 and 9 a noun, the noun 'nonexistence' not existent!

 

Say speakable unindependent Dao.

The term can be a title isn't an independent clause.

The starting point is named the nonexistence of the heavenly ...

The mothers are named the existence of the tenthousand things.

The former nonexistence desires by means of looking at their beauty.

A selfish desire arises from the observation of its manifestation.

Both sides of now are the same appearance and different compliments.

Identical means to arrive at dusk as the darkening exits.

The gate darkens the twilights of the multitudinous mystery.

[Marblehead]

Okay. I can speak to something here.

 

Line 4: The mothers are named the existence of the tenthousand things.

 

I can deal with that because the mothers (Chi and Wu) gave birth to the ten thousand things.

 

Line 9: The gate darkens the twilights of the multitudinous mystery.

 

My mind is still having a problem dealing with this. In my understanding, the Gate is that point between Wu and Yo. Yo is the manifest, the ten thousand things; Wu is the mystery, pure potential, the source of the ten thousand things. With this understanding, I think it is that when we understand the function of the gate we have been enlightened, contrary to your word "darkens".

 

Line 3: The starting point is named the nonexistence of the heavenly ...

 

This is still tricky because using the term "starting point" suggests there was an original beginning whereas according to the concept of cycles there really is no starting point but just a point where we begin our referrencing. Cyclically, there is no starting or ending point, just continuous transmutations.

 

Peace & Love!

[lienshan]

Line 9: The gate darkens the twilights of the multitudinous mystery.

 

My mind is still having a problem dealing with this. In my understanding, the Gate is that point between Wu and Yo. Yo is the manifest, the ten thousand things; Wu is the mystery, pure potential, the source of the ten thousand things. With this understanding, I think it is that when we understand the function of the gate we have been enlightened, contrary to your word "darkens".

OK ... let's brainstorm the line and see, if it does make sense?

 

'The Gate' is in my understanding synonymous with the Ji Gate of Jixia (The Academy of Jixia).

The mohists were the strongest School of Thought there, when Laozi lived.

The turning point of their philosophy was 'the Intention of Heaven'.

The turning point of the Zhou dynasty was, that the king was 'the Son of Heaven'.

But the morning twilight and evening twilight are different.

That means, that it's the same sun that disappears in the evening and reoccurs in the morning.

Darkening the twilights means to hide this fact and claim,

that the Earth is flat and that the sun dies every night and is reborn every morning,

like a new 'Son of Heaven' is reborn when the former 'Son of Heaven' pass away.

 

'the multitudinous mystery' means thus the mystery of the many Sons of Heaven and the many suns?

 

An alternative:

The gate of twilights means either from dawn to dusk (day) or from dusk to dawn (night).

'the gate of twilights darkens' means thus 'while night'.

Edited August 15, 2010 by lienshan