Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj

[Vajrahridaya]

Typical response. Always reflected back on others.

 

I say it doesn't matter what you're feeling. Can you sense the effects of your words?

 

But... Songs, you are the one reacting so harshly. Why so affected?

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Typical response, always reflected back on others. Avoidant.

[Vajrahridaya]

I have personally experienced and observed many of the spiritual blind alleys and subtle dangers that are associated with complex systems of Qi training and hierarchical structures of spiritual development. The obvious risks include identification with a set of formal teachings, lineages, systems, or even the identity of belonging to an elite professional organization. The less obvious, more subtle dangers involve identification with a set of goals, or images of spiritual attainment, no matter how refined or ideal they may be. The result of either is that the seeker assumes a new self-image; an elevated or spiritual ego emerges, an identity framed within the language, symbols or authority of the teachings or lineage.

 

All these originate dependently and are empty of inherent existence so have no inherent power of bondage. Even if on a practical level, much of this may be needed at one point or another during an individual mind-streams development.

[Vajrahridaya]

Typical response, always reflected back on others. Avoidant.

 

You too... BOOO! I'm sooo scary!!!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

And you never take out the garbage or pick up after yourself!!

Edited August 8, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

And you never take out the garbage or pick up after yourself!!

 

Actually... To tell you the truth. I'm quite clean! I like to have everything tidy. Just like my philosophy and spirituality.

[ralis]

All these originate dependently and are empty of inherent existence so have no inherent power of bondage. Even if on a practical level, much of this may be needed at one point or another during an individual mind-streams development.

 

That is a dangerous point of view. What you are saying is that any abuse of an individual or group is perfectly alright. Wars, genocide, torture etc. must be ok in your mind.

 

 

ralis

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Actually... To tell you the truth. I'm quite clean! I like to have everything tidy. Just like my philosophy and spirituality.

 

 

You are just a Teflon individual, aren't you? You deflect everything, always. I was making a jest in accord with mikaelz' reply. I don't think I remember you admitting your point of view was wrong or mistaken ever, on this forum.

 

 

Once again, for an unattached dude, you're pretty attached.

[Vajrahridaya]

That is a dangerous point of view. What you are saying is that any abuse of an individual or group is perfectly alright. Wars, genocide, torture etc. must be ok in your mind.

 

 

ralis

 

Wow... very stupid conjecture. Very paranoid I might add. I was not talking about any of this. I was talking about having a set of goals. Having a lineage of Guru's. The things specifically spoken about in the post I quoted. Even having a spiritual ego is a step in the process.

 

Not starting wars, genocide, torture, etc. These are your paranoid ideas about my posts that reflect an absolute refusal to understand the points of view I've posited. A total refusal to step outside of ones own paranoid projections and objections about religion and an absolute lack of objective reading. You subject me to your own hate for religion every time you read my posts.

 

Put me on ignore! Sheesh!! Songs is way less annoying than you are and I'm not easily annoyed.

[Vajrahridaya]

You are just a Teflon individual, aren't you? You deflect everything, always. I was making a jest in accord with mikaelz' reply. I don't think I remember you admitting your point of view was wrong or mistaken ever, on this forum.

 

 

Once again, for an unattached dude, you're pretty attached.

 

Wow... I was just making a statement about myself. :lol: Everything I say is a form of neurosis for you. Should I admit I'm wrong for who's sake? I don't feel I'm wrong so why should I say that I'm wrong. I've apologized for making insults before. But, I don't find the Buddhas point of view wrong at all. In fact, I find most other traditional point of views wrong in certain ways. That's me... deal with it, or ignore me.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

And you can deal with me, or ignore me, too.

 

So, you hide behind the buddha for all your words and actions? Aha! That's what's going on! If you read the above post by Dr. Gunther Weil, he is referring to just that identification that you have with buddhism!

 

The obvious risks include identification with a set of formal teachings, lineages, systems, or even the identity of belonging to an elite professional organization. The less obvious, more subtle dangers involve identification with a set of goals, or images of spiritual attainment, no matter how refined or ideal they may be. The result of either is that the seeker assumes a new self-image; an elevated or spiritual ego emerges, an identity framed within the language, symbols or authority of the teachings or lineage.

 

You can't see it? Vajra, you don't seem to be able to think for yourself, you seem only able to parrot the buddha's words, then run and hide behind the buddha's skirts if someone questions you! How amazing that even your meditations correspond exactly with what you expect from your teachers and the buddha's words!

 

Why is that, do you think?

Edited August 8, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Vajrahridaya]

 

 

You can't see it? Vajra, you don't seem to be able to think for yourself, you seem only able to parrot the buddha's words, then run and hide behind the buddha's skirts if someone questions you! How amazing that even your meditations correspond exactly with what you expect from your teachers and the buddha's words!

 

Why is that, do you think?

 

You do not understand the experiential meaning of dependent origination, so you don't know what I mean when I say that these are all empty of inherent existence so have no weight of bondage. So no, I do not suffer from any of your projections.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Again, you suffer from the delusion that everybody is projecting onto you. Another avoidance technique. Thank you, you are demonstrating my points nicely.

[Vajrahridaya]

Again, you suffer from the delusion that everybody is projecting onto you. Another avoidance technique. Thank you, you are demonstrating my points nicely.

 

Excellent! You can use me in your next discussion on neurotic reactions and psychological avoidance of the main point.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Admitting your delusions is the first step in waking up! This is a great first step! You should read more Nisargardatta for guidance!

[Vajrahridaya]

Admitting your delusions is the first step in waking up! This is a great first step! You should read more Nisargardatta for guidance!

 

I've already studied him many years ago and understand his limits based upon my insight into dependent origination/emptiness.

 

Damn me for it!! Go ahead... But I do see flaws in his understanding. The fact that you don't understand me, Michealz or Xabir's expressions of these limitations say's nothing about us at all.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

OK, then... Damn you, Vajrahraidaya!!!...hey, wait a minute... This means you believe in Hell??! Wow, a Buddhist Hell...that's perfect for you! Maybe you'll learn a to settle down a little bit though, and let go of some of that arrogant Buddhist attitude...Norbu must've put you up to this. But wait!! Maybe this is a trap! Maybe I have to go and be down there with you because I damned you!! Oh, this is terrible! And it felt so good to say "Damn you, Vajrahridaya!" Oh well, let me go pack my suitcase...shouldn't need much, probly just a couple of pairs of swimming trunks... But I don't think we should have to stay there more than a few hundred years, you're not that bad!!! Shit, wait till ralis hears about this...I'll never hear the end of it...

[Vajrahridaya]

OK, then... Damn you, Vajrahraidaya!!!...hey, wait a minute... This means you believe in Hell??! Wow, a Buddhist Hell...that's perfect for you! Maybe you'll learn a to settle down a little bit though, and let go of some of that arrogant Buddhist attitude...Norbu must've put you up to this. But wait!! Maybe this is a trap! Maybe I have to go and be down there with you because I damned you!! Oh, this is terrible! And it felt so good to say "Damn you, Vajrahridaya!" Oh well, let me go pack my suitcase...shouldn't need much, probly just a couple of pairs of swimming trunks... But I don't think we should have to stay there more than a few hundred years, you're not that bad!!! Shit, wait till ralis hears about this...I'll never hear the end of it...

 

Ok... not so annoying... but whao! :lol: :lol: