You call that massage?

[Owledge]

 

[Marblehead]

That's what I call over-doing it.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

The junk must come out of the muscle tissue and to the surface, so that the body can get rid of it more easily.

You should have seen my back after the first few treatments with suction domes.

[Old Man Contradiction]

Yeah massage hurts.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[Owledge]

Yeah massage hurts.

Sometimes to the limit. But I was told, short and very painful can accomplish more than long and less painful. I simply have to endure it.

 

That's probably why there is that old saying: "Don't kill the massager!".

[Ya Mu]

That's what I call over-doing it.

 

Peace & Love!

agreed

 

Sometimes to the limit. But I was told, short and very painful can accomplish more than long and less painful. I simply have to endure it.

 

That's probably why there is that old saying: "Don't kill the massager!".

As long as you feel better that is what counts. But I assure you that massage doesn't have to be painful to work and so much totally disagree with the statement

...short and very painful can accomplish more than long and less painful

This is simply not true at all.

And the pic demonstrates skin trauma; what kind of "junk" were you told this represents?

Unless you are getting instant relief and really like this type of trauma I suggest you find another therapist. Perhaps Tui Na?

[Ya Mu]

Yeah massage hurts.

Massage does not have to or need to hurt.

[Owledge]

Do I have to mention that it's TCM?

Well, how much experience do you have with different practitioners? Can you exclude that this is one 'way' of doing it? Consider the many ancient and very efficient chinese techniques that many people would not even be able to endure. Would you call that overdoing? Wang Piping got purification sessions that if not done properly could have killed him. Call that bad practice? Unwise?

Also, it has to be efficient, because I have 'only' half an hour twice a week. Between the appointments, the body gets rid of the junk. (At least that applies to the suction technique.)

My masseur told me he has to to a lot of head-work figuring out where the problems lie, where the connections of the causes are, what approach would be best the next time and so on.

Maybe the massage you know is simply done with the aim of not causing pain. But when the body is not at all loosened up and needs a lot of work, that's probably a good approach. It's also telling that some areas don't hurt at all or become red, and then some distinct areas hurt very badly and become red. Optimum would be no pain anywhere.

The spots caused by the suction globes on my back are much less distinct now then in the beginning, and the tissue feels a lot different - soft, agile and rich.

 

Sometimes I also get acupuncture, sometimes supported by electricity to loosen up muscles.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hardyg

[Marblehead]

Sometimes I also get acupuncture, sometimes supported by electricity to loosen up muscles.

 

Good meditation will give you the same results if done properly.

 

Peace & Love!

[Ya Mu]

Do I have to mention that it's TCM?

Well, how much experience do you have with different practitioners? Can you exclude that this is one 'way' of doing it? Consider the many ancient and very efficient chinese techniques that many people would not even be able to endure. Would you call that overdoing? Wang Piping got purification sessions that if not done properly could have killed him. Call that bad practice? Unwise?

Also, it has to be efficient, because I have 'only' half an hour twice a week. Between the appointments, the body gets rid of the junk. (At least that applies to the suction technique.)

My masseur told me he has to to a lot of head-work figuring out where the problems lie, where the connections of the causes are, what approach would be best the next time and so on.

Maybe the massage you know is simply done with the aim of not causing pain. But when the body is not at all loosened up and needs a lot of work, that's probably a good approach. It's also telling that some areas don't hurt at all or become red, and then some distinct areas hurt very badly and become red. Optimum would be no pain anywhere.

The spots caused by the suction globes on my back are much less distinct now then in the beginning, and the tissue feels a lot different - soft, agile and rich.

 

Sometimes I also get acupuncture, sometimes supported by electricity to loosen up muscles.

 

Well, how much experience do you have with different practitioners?

35 years clinic practice, diplomas from Chinese hospitals, etc LOL

 

I DO practice Chinese therapeutic techniques. And yes, that is totally not necessary for massage to be effective.

You said "massage" in your original post and that is what I was refering to. Cupping is not massage but "cupping". I do see where you say "suction domes" but the pic said massage and I thought the "suction domes" was after you got "massage" that did what was posted in the pic.

 

Bad and inefficient practice IS no matter who is getting it. Lots of inefficient practices still in TCM. Lots of good practices in TCM.

 

Maybe the massage you know is simply done with the aim of not causing pain. But when the body is not at all loosened up and needs a lot of work, that's probably a good approach. It's also telling that some areas don't hurt at all or become red, and then some distinct areas hurt very badly and become red. Optimum would be no pain anywhere.

Agree that optimum is no pain anywhere. It is not necessary to give pain to remove pain. And it doesn't matter whether the body is rigid or loose. No pain is needed.

[Owledge]

Now I'm curious. How do you massage a hardened muscle area, efficiently loosening it up, making it soft, without inducing pain, when not-so-extreme pressure will cause great pain? Is there a special technique, or do you call softly massaging one spot for many minutes effective?

 

By the way, the photo shows 'massage marks' from the outside upper left thigh. Got massage on the legs and feet and got marks on both sides there, and nowhere else. (Got the instruction to only drink warm water after that.) The practitioner said it's connected to the gallbladder, and the gallbladder is needed for the liver to get rid of its filtered out poisons.

I've recently developed a passion for peppermint, and that is said to stimulate gallbladder function.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hardyg

[Ya Mu]

Now I'm curious. How do you massage a hardened muscle area, efficiently loosening it up, making it soft, without inducing pain, when not-so-extreme pressure will cause great pain? Is there a special technique, or do you call softly massaging one spot for many minutes effective?

...

Qi manipulation massage.

The qi tells the nerve to tell the muscle to loosen. And so it does.

Nearly 100% result rate in pain elimination; if only muscles are involved 100% result rate.

 

I like peppermint tea too. Have you ever tried growing it? Planted some where I used to live and it kinda got away from us, all over the place.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Ya Mu

[Owledge]

Well, Qi manipulation massage sound relatively advanced. I won't find things like these here, so I what is offered will have to do.

But really, for me personally it feels very right. After all it set processes in motion and stimulates.

I won't try 'miracle cures' or something like that for detox anymore, because without the deeper understanding one can also do harm, and all the seeking uses up energy. I enjoy the passivity of the massage sessions. I just lie there and accept, let happen.

For Nei Gung to be successful on its own with reasonable effort, my body apparently is too blocked. So now I first deal with the basics, then one will assist the other.

 

Oh by the way, I don't drink peppermint tea. I mix vanilla ice cream with a few drops of peppermint oil. Harmonizes very well and feels nicely cooling and ethereal. In the beginning I could hardly get enough of it, but now it is less extreme.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hardyg

[Ya Mu]

Well, Qi manipulation massage sound relatively advanced. I won't find things like these here, so I what is offered will have to do.

But really, for me personally it feels very right. After all it set processes in motion and stimulates.

I won't try 'miracle cures' or something like that for detox anymore, because without the deeper understanding one can also do harm, and all the seeking uses up energy. I enjoy the passivity of the massage sessions. I just lie there and accept, let happen.

For Nei Gung to be successful on its own with reasonable effort, my body apparently is too blocked. So now I first deal with the basics, then one will assist the other.

 

Oh by the way, I don't drink peppermint tea. I mix vanilla ice cream with a few drops of peppermint oil. Harmonizes very well and feels nicely cooling and ethereal. In the beginning I could hardly get enough of it, but now it is less extreme.

We all need a little help now and then for those blockages.

[RiverSnake]

As important as it is to help get rid of the blocks in our body, i believe it is equally important to change the life-style we live so that we don't cause them again.

[Marblehead]

As important as it is to help get rid of the blocks in our body, i believe it is equally important to change the life-style we live so that we don't cause them again.

 

Yep, that is called 'learning from experience'.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

I'm very aware of that, but it can be a tough nut to crack. The environment we live in can greatly influence the lifestyle.

[Marblehead]

I'm very aware of that, but it can be a tough nut to crack. The environment we live in can greatly influence the lifestyle.

 

Yeah. How does that saying go? "Nobody said it was going to be easy."

 

Indeed, there are so many influences that directly effect our life.

 

It is therefore up to us, the individual, to decide which influences we are going to allow to effect us and which we will avoid. Of course, even this is difficult if there are others in our life who we must make allowances for. Almost always, if we live in a society we have to play the cost/benefit game.

 

Even in that picture of the opening post the person who got the massage must decide if the benefits of the massage outweigh the costs. Some choose to go to that level for whatever the reason.

 

Peace & Love!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Yeah. How does that saying go? "Nobody said it was going to be easy."

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9G4FCO1tqM

[Kameel]

Well there is a hyperemic effect that can occur with massage when an increase of blood and lymph flow is distributed to a specific area, but the picture looks like petechiae. That is usually caused by scrubbing in Tuina, or through Gua Sha, when the subcutaneous tissue and interstitial fluid is released to the surface clearing toxins (according to TCM). Also, some old-school Rolfers get this because they don't use any cream or lotion, thinking it will release the fascia more effeciently (but the petechiae are not a desired side effect in this case).

 

Having said this- I love deep massage. The trick is, the deeper you go the more sensitivity you need (both as a client and therapist). Somewhat, counterintuitive, but true. The therapist and client need to establish a confident relationship and deep breathing is essential for proper muscle/trigger point/fascia/etc. release.

[Marblehead]

...

 

Yep. And sometimes it is very difficult when we don't live up to other people's expectations.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

Having said this- I love deep massage. The trick is, the deeper you go the more sensitivity you need (both as a client and therapist). Somewhat, counterintuitive, but true. The therapist and client need to establish a confident relationship and deep breathing is essential for proper muscle/trigger point/fascia/etc. release.

When he asks me for confirmation that something does hurt, I can always confirm, and he feels when a spot hurts.

It is difficult for me to maintain a healthy breath though, when pain sets in. I guess that's natural. There's no way I could keep my muscles relaxed, and I don't know whether this is counterproductive. At some points, the massage hurts so much that I tense my whole body.

However... when he stops, the feeling is wonderful. Huge relief.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Hardyg