when tongue on the palate, teeth together or not?

[Ya Mu]

I agree with Ya Mu, Hundun that one should not force a position which causes tension. Also depending upon ones oral issues it may never be possible to keep teeth touching and have relaxation. Finding what is natural is the watercourse way it is resonant and consistent with the principles of Taoism.

Let me reiterate my experience. I did meditation and chi kung of the healing tao school for many, many years. I did not focus on touching the teeth. I only made sure that my tongue touched the palate. I DID experience results from these practices. Therefore I am NOT saying that it is ineffective if you don't touch the teeth. I found that this was an instruction of my new teacher which I took on board. I initially disregarded it as I rationalized that it would never be comfortable give my oral issues and habits. I decided at one point to see if I could do it and become comfortable with it. I did persist with it and I became accustomed to it and it became "natural" to me. Also during this time I went from practice of sitting meditation in a chair in the classical healing tao throne position. This position was very natural to me as I had done it for years (maybe decades). My new teacher was a proponent of full lotus sitting practice and I was initially resistant to that. Over a period of several months I became accustomed to and relaxed sitting in half lotus.

 

So what is natural and what is learned technique? What is beneficial? What is effective? What is Optimal? to me touching the teeth is optimal.

 

 

OK, so I think we agree relaxation is important, but in my opinion if you have no physical issues preventing it I believe teeth touching when tongue touching palate is optimal. I am definitely not saying it is necessary. In fact I believe that energy can and will flow in the orbit without touching the tongue to the palate, but it does help.

 

Thanks for listening to this overlong discussion of a very minor technique issue.

 

ain't it grand that we can have civil discourse? thanks all

 

Craig

 

Craig,

 

Thanks for posting your experience.

 

I suspect that anyone with TMJ type problems would induce a flareup if they attempted to keep the teeth together. The one thing that seems to be the most aggravating to this type of problem is grinding of teeth and jaw tension. And I see a world of it in clinic as there are few health-care/therapeutics practitioners that can do anything about it. For anyone who does not have tension or TMJ related problems I see no reason for them not to compare the positions.

[Brian]

...

[Mark Foote]

i don't think i have heard this mentioned anywhere, and i have been wondering about this for some time. when one is meditating or doing energetic practices, and placing the tip of the tongue on the roof of the mouth, do you want your teeth together, closed, or separate with a loose jaw of sorts? i am wondering if there would be different energetic effects in either cases?

 

i have tried both and have not noticed any major differences. i would appreciate any input.

 

I have done the first part of Cheng Man-Ch'ing's tai-chi set, with a group that met Saturday mornings in a local park, but mostly I just sit at home in the mornings and a little in the evenings. I sometimes end up a little numb in long or repeated sittings, so my sitting is a work in progress. That's where I'm coming from.

 

The teachers who inspired me to sit zazen taught that the teeth should be just touching. I don't usually find my teeth touching, but when my sense of place rests my weight in the stretch of the sacro-spinous and sacro-tuberal ligaments with the motion of the sacrum, then I do. That's as near as I can come to describing it, and of course I feel like such a sense of place should be mine all the time when I sit (because of the words of these teachers), which mostly results in my losing my touch. So for me, the results are not in.

[Mark Foote]

 

The teachers who inspired me to sit zazen taught that the teeth should be just touching. I don't usually find my teeth touching, but when my sense of place rests my weight in the stretch of the sacro-spinous and sacro-tuberal ligaments with the motion of the sacrum, then I do.

 

 

an illustration of the anatomy:

 

Isis and Nephthys, illustrating the role of weight on the sacro-spinous: