tummo and chi

[time to change]

ok u guys know alot so please help me i want to learn how to project chi into my finger and burn stuf also can someone explain tummo the tantien chi and how i can become like those monk who can break stuff with their heads and arms i have a lot of free time so tell and il do

[Marblehead]

Hi TTC,

 

I can't offer any particulars but I will make this one suggestion: as you walk this road make sure you can discriminate between reality and magic. (Magic is only deception, you know.)

 

Peace & Love!

[immortal_sister]

ok u guys know alot so please help me i want to learn how to project chi into my finger and burn stuf also can someone explain tummo the tantien chi and how i can become like those monk who can break stuff with their heads and arms i have a lot of free time so tell and il do

 

why do you want to be able to do those things?

 

hmm sometimes i wonder if these posts are even for real...

Edited August 11, 2010 by immortal_sister

[Kronos]

go out and play! there's a lot of chi in nature

[Dreamingawake]

ok u guys know alot so please help me i want to learn how to project chi into my finger and burn stuf also can someone explain tummo the tantien chi and how i can become like those monk who can break stuff with their heads and arms i have a lot of free time so tell and il do

 

Burning things requires more advanced skills than most ever seem to achieve. I know people who have trained for 20+ years and can't do that. In fact I've never met anyone in person who could or claimed to.

 

Understanding of the tantien changes depending on training and background. In Longmen Pai it's a very specific achievement and must be created within the body. In most other understandings I've come across the name simply represents a location in the body where chi tends to gather during practice. (a little below the navel and in a few inches)

 

Chi is a very complex issue indeed. Most often it is translated as 'energy' and this can be a useful working definition but it is not strictly speaking entirely accurate.

 

If you want to break things with your head and arms then start asking around at local kung fu schools whether they teach Iron body/iron shirt. It is a form of chi kung (qi gong) specifically designed to protect your body from damage.

 

hope that helps

 

P.S. I can't speak for other forums but asking for 'how to instructions' on this forum seems pretty pointless. Any questioning about how to get power on this forum only results in posts like the one above from Immortal_sister. In fact sloppy recently started a thread here about exactly that.

[immortal_sister]

if someone is asking about how to develop very advanced skills, without giving any information about their background or experience, i think asking someone why they want to achieve those skills is perfectly reasonable. in fact, it is MUCH more reasonable than just giving someone instructions via an internet forum that they could misinterpret or that could potentially harm them. the practices that are required to achieve skills like those mentioned are actually potentially quite dangerous if not done under spervision (whether its hard external training, hard qigong, or advanced qi packing neigong).

 

like you said yourself, most people will never be able to do the things this guy mentioned in his opening post.

 

the "why" is very important because it dictates the road someone will take or should take or shouldn't take.

 

i was not being dismissive, i was asking a legitimate question that the opening poster did not answer.

 

same for the "third eye" thread. i asked him why he wanted to be able to open his third eye. simple question. never got an answer. opening the third eye is not some simple sunday afternoon endeavor, nor is it usually the ultimate goal of practice.

 

anyhow. my two cents for what its worth. i am glad that this forum does have a buffer and that people have discussions about these advanced practices. thats the way it should be. no one should just be sent off to meditate in full lotus for an hour a day without any instruction

[NeiChuan]

Even if I did know.. Telling you would probably be a waste, once you'd burn some dead leaves you'd probably get bored.

 

I mean.. Unless your planning on showing it off to other people, then ofcourse its for show, and some of fine with that too.

[markern]

In general I tend to recommend matches.

[Dreamingawake]

if someone is asking about how to develop very advanced skills, without giving any information about their background or experience, i think asking someone why they want to achieve those skills is perfectly reasonable. in fact, it is MUCH more reasonable than just giving someone instructions via an internet forum that they could misinterpret or that could potentially harm them. the practices that are required to achieve skills like those mentioned are actually potentially quite dangerous if not done under spervision (whether its hard external training, hard qigong, or advanced qi packing neigong).

 

like you said yourself, most people will never be able to do the things this guy mentioned in his opening post.

 

the "why" is very important because it dictates the road someone will take or should take or shouldn't take.

 

i was not being dismissive, i was asking a legitimate question that the opening poster did not answer.

 

same for the "third eye" thread. i asked him why he wanted to be able to open his third eye. simple question. never got an answer. opening the third eye is not some simple sunday afternoon endeavor, nor is it usually the ultimate goal of practice.

 

anyhow. my two cents for what its worth. i am glad that this forum does have a buffer and that people have discussions about these advanced practices. thats the way it should be. no one should just be sent off to meditate in full lotus for an hour a day without any instruction

 

I wasn't trying to criticize your post. Just using it as an example since it was the most convenient You've gotta admit, sloppy has a huge point. People here almost never talk methods but instead go on and on about why you shouldn't be looking for power ad nauseam.

 

You can use my post as an example. I gave him enough info to clarify some points and pointed him in the direction of a qualified teacher that can take him closer to where he's trying to go. Is that so difficult?

[immortal_sister]

I wasn't trying to criticize your post. Just using it as an example since it was the most convenient You've gotta admit, sloppy has a huge point. People here almost never talk methods but instead go on and on about why you shouldn't be looking for power ad nauseam.

 

You can use my post as an example. I gave him enough info to clarify some points and pointed him in the direction of a qualified teacher that can take him closer to where he's trying to go. Is that so difficult?

 

there is a time and place to give people instruction and talk about actual methods. and in fact, there are LOTS of posts where people do. but the way his post was written, with no information about where he is at with his own practice, or if he even has one, didn't really strike a chord.

 

your post was good, yes. good for you for wanting to help a guy out. but i tend to feel like that kind of post, honestly, doesn't deserve a well thought out answer with some wisdom and guidance. his post wasn't well thought out or well written, and the intention that came through was not one that i, personally, feel i should cater to. i asked him a question to give him a chance to write more and explain where he is at. but he didn't bother to reply.

Edited August 17, 2010 by immortal_sister

[Dreamingawake]

but i tend to feel like that kind of post, honestly, doesn't deserve a well thought out answer with some wisdom and guidance. his post wasn't well thought out or well written, and the intention that came through was not one that i, personally, feel i should cater to. i asked him a question to give him a chance to write more and explain where he is at. but he didn't bother to reply.

 

Thats not unlike the new kid at the gym. We've all seen him at least a few times in our lives. He weighs 140 pounds and thinks he's gonna turn into the hulk in a month but doesn't have clue 1 about proper strength training. He asks how many sets of concentration curls he should do instead of how to deadlift. He doesn't know the first thing about squatting but thinks as long as he takes lots of protein shakes he's got everything he needs. So he walks up to you and asks what set/rep scheme is best for getting his bench press up to two plates (thats 225 pounds for you non-gym rats ) You tell him something like, "you shouldn't be looking for a big bench press. You should be working on your overall physical development."

 

Well guess what, he doesn't have enough experience yet to see the value in that and isn't going to listen so instead he trains like he sees in those retarded magazines or copies something stupid he saw on the internet and gets himself hurt. If you had explained to him how adding dead lifts or squats would have boosted his testosterone and growth hormone levels enabling him to increase his overall strength (especially his bench press) then he would have listened and made progress.

 

WE ALL HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE. Our goals change as we gain experience. Shutting someone down with questions about their motivations that they may not even fully understand yet just because their stated goals aren't at 'your' level isn't very understanding or compassionate. Pak John over in java started learning because he wanted power for powers sake. He basically just wanted to be a badass. Now he has a level of power that few can even understand and most of us will never reach. Don't refuse to water a sapling just because it hasn't grown tall enough for your tastes. Or at least if you do please don't pretend that it's anything other than elitist.

 

Please don't take this as an attack. Just an observation.

[time to change]

i just wanted some info on it thats all sorry

[Dreamingawake]

i just wanted some info on it thats all sorry

 

Don't apologize for wanting info learning is a good thing. It just also happens to be a hot topic on the board over the last few days.

 

It's not that people don't want to help, they just don't seem to go about it in a useful way. Also bear in mind my posts often come across much more harshly than I intend. I'm still working on that one.

 

I forgot to mention gTummo (tummo) before. It's a Tibetan meditation with a tendency to generate huge amounts of heat and I hear it builds up tremendous levels of energy in the body. I don't really have a 'deep' understanding of it myself though. If you look around, you may be able to find an instructor in your area. In the long run tummo may be more beneficial but if you want to break things then Iron body may be more fun for now. live and learn eh?

[time to change]

Don't apologize for wanting info learning is a good thing. It just also happens to be a hot topic on the board over the last few days.

 

It's not that people don't want to help, they just don't seem to go about it in a useful way. Also bear in mind my posts often come across much more harshly than I intend. I'm still working on that one.

 

I forgot to mention gTummo (tummo) before. It's a Tibetan meditation with a tendency to generate huge amounts of heat and I hear it builds up tremendous levels of energy in the body. I don't really have a 'deep' understanding of it myself though. If you look around, you may be able to find an instructor in your area. In the long run tummo may be more beneficial but if you want to break things then Iron body may be more fun for now. live and learn eh?

yea see thats why i like this forum i learn lots of new stuff which are helpfull i think that all the secrets should be revealed if we want this world to change

[Kali Yuga]

I do not see why all of you seem to be so intent on wanting someone else to be spiritually mature from the very beginning.

 

I find this not very intelligent nor a reasonable expectation, its like telling someone that they should think that a 5- star restaurant's food is better than anything else even before they've tried McDonald's. In short, have nothing to compare it with. Its just plain nonsensical. There's nothing wrong with wanting something new and crazy and different that seemed impossible to do before.

 

It's like a parent chastising their children not to do this and that, of course the intent is good but more often than not, a child's true learning comes from being bruised and bumped, from experience itself and not mere words of "don't do this or don't do that cuz it's bad!".. How many of us have been told not to do something when we were kids? And even though did it anyway? And even though we got scathed we couldn't help but feeling wiser comparing to someone just telling us how it would be?

 

In my experience there are those who mature spiritually who through developing their energy capabilities. And then again there are those who don't, but it's up to each individual. Some learn quite quickly, and some never do.

 

But i think what sometimes many of you don't understand is that something mundane like this leads to much deeper realization. It depends on the conciousness of the individual though. For example, in my practice of Kalimasada before standing on flourescent bulbs without them breaking from the heaviness of my own bodyweight seemed like an impossiblity. Or breaking a ceramic tile with a lightbulb packed with chi. Or being lifted 3 feet in the air while standing and 2 sheets of newspaper. It all seems so amazing and surreal that this is possible. And when I finally did achieve it the feeling was euphoric. But give it 6 months and the high is gone it's no longer something that's a miracle but a given. You just expect it to happen.

 

In short the wise soul could desire to do something "supernatural" like this. But upon his achievement it grants him much wisdom -that the high is gone, and the realization that no matter how large his capacity to do things like these, its just another high that will go away and leave him wanting more. Thus, the search for a true awakening and spirituality begins. But with someone who does not have a wise or perceptive soul would go bumping from thing to thing like this -bam! I shielded myself from an attack with chi -bam! i healed my own cold in 30 minutes -bam! i broke a bottle using chi! and never be truly satisfied. You could say it accelerates karma because the clean soul becomes cleaner with his insight, while the other souls become tainted more and more with their own lust until they realize their state of lacking..

 

This is the reason why masters do not teach the truly hardcore stuff openly because of childish souls would openly abuse this. But a taste or two should reveal quite quickly which kind of soul you are. Spiritual maturity depends on the individual -but it cannot be hastened before its time.

 

Peace and Love to you all.

[immortal_sister]

kali yoga & dreamingawake, i appreciate both your posts and i understand your points of view, and tend to agree with it. i have no grandiose expectations of people fully understanding what they are looking for or why they are even seeking what they are seeking. however, that doesn't mean that one shouldn't ask those questions to at least potentially get that ball rolling in the person's mind. i think that has a lot of value. agree to disagree i guess.

 

time to change, don't apologize for asking a question. seeking knowledge is important! i asked you a question though that i personally feel is important to ask yourself, as it will ultimately help you decipher the road ahead and the many paths that are available in self-development. whether you answer here on the forum or not is not really the point.

[Gerard]

.

Edited August 18, 2010 by durkhrod chogori

[宁]

time_to_change,

 

you're on the wrong forum. no one here knows how to burn things

 

but you already know that, don't you

 

taoism isn't about burning things and astral projecting

 

wrong forum, man

 

L1

[.broken.]

taoism isn't about burning things and astral projecting

 

wrong forum, man

 

This forum is about cultivation. Both astral projection and gaining control over the five elements, within and without, fall under this topic.

 

Here's the description of the forum: "Transcendent, mundane, talking through the middle. Taoist, Buddhist, Non-sectarian cultivation discussion."

 

In addition, both setting fire to things and astral projection are results of Daoist cultivation, although certainly not its 'goal'.

 

Yours,

James

[markern]

If you want to learn proper Tummo you can learn it from Tibetan Buddhists. Probably a Nyingma lineage is your best bet as they focus more on meditation as opposed to study. It varies how quickly they will teach it to you but in Oslo you will be doing tummo by the end of a year or so. THey probably won`t teach you unless you actually become a tibetan budhist and do all the preliminaries. Many traditions have versions of Tummo. Santiago has learn`t seven or so different versions and teaches it in KAP so that is a place were you can learn it without buying into a huge additional package and having to do loads of preparations. In KAP you will also learn otehr stuff that will become a complete balanced package. If you only do Tummo and not other stuff to balance it out then you are probably going to end up in a lot of trouble energetically.

 

Learning to set things on fire is extremely rare if it is at all possible. Just learning to heat yourself so that you can sleep naked in the snow like Tibetan lamas takes a loooong time. I am not sure Tumoo eventually leads to being able to set things on fire or just generates internal heat but if it does then that takes a ridiculous amount of practice time to achieve. So even if you learn tummo from the tibetans or in KAP I wouldn`t expect more than eventually being able to keep yourself warm in the winter. Which by itself is cool and something I might add in extra meditation time to do just for fun. But it is still not a "supernatural" siddhi bending the laws of science. More just like tremendous control over bodily processes. Anyway learning to project chi to others for healing and to scan their aura and energybodies etc. is something that you will eventually learn in many or all systems eventually and can be developed fairly qucik within some. Many on this forum have those abilities. Do springforestqigong or KAP and you will after some time start to develop a modest ability to those two things.

 

If you want more incredible siddhis than that then for the most part they are quite rare and it does not apear to me that many of the people seeking them in various magical systems or otehr systems geared to this purpose usually develop much of this despite the effort. The buddhist way of doing this, or at least a key budhist way of doing this, is to learn to master a deep concentration state called the fourth Jhana and then after coming out of it resolving for the ability to develop in you. According to budhist tradition most or all siddhis can be developed in this way and it is where the Buddha developed most of his. Geting instruction that will actually lead you to the fourth Jhana is readily available so I would say this is the most accessible way to develop siddhis that has some degree of "guarantee" involved. Better to listen to the Buddha then some guy on an astral travel forum that swears he developed so and so doing this and that meditation. THat said, the fourth Jhana is a VERY high attainment. It takes intense effort to reach for most and some probably do not have it in them to develop that level of concentration. I asked my teacher how much I needed to practice to achieve it and he said four hours a day for about a year if I can put most distractions in my personal life aside was a reasonable GUESS. But I am unusually sensitive to energy and have an easier time then most in concentrating in meditation and would have weekly follow up by an instructor who knows how to do it.

 

Also Daniel Ingram argues that for most people it is quicker to get stream entry, which is the first level of enlightenment, and then develop the fourth jhana then to develop the fourth jhana and then reach stream entry because stream entry makes the jhanas so much easier to access. The Jhanas are described as being so blissfull, delightfull, restfull and fun and stream entry gives a level of happiness and freedom that is independent of conditions that once you get going in the pursuit siddhis would in most cases probably take a back seat as the fun and rush of siddhis for most can not compare to what you get from jahans and stream entry. In addition developing siddhis is in many traditions said to lead to temptations that can corrupt you and to lead to moral dilemmas and confusing states that can be way too much for even well balanced people. Read Daniel Ingrams chapter on this in mastering the core teachings of the buddha (free on his webpage) as he describes very well how confusing having all those abilities might be and how hopeless some of the moral dilemas you will bring upon yourself would be.