Western "success"....vs...Taoism

[mcompton1973]

I am a little concerned.

I am a salesman. Now, I have a little different sales job. I sell market information and weather to farmers. i dont have to lie about my product or anything like that...so in that I feel good.

 

Here is my concern.

I have considered starting my own company doing something similar...but I dont have the money to do it.

If I cant pull that together I will have to do something different...only because my current job is not something that I can do forever. It is very much just a job. So on the one hand i have these goals and desires to earn an above average living...(I would like my wife to be able to stay home...there are things I need to do to my home...etc etc etc) but I am worried that having a desire to make money, or to start my own company etc etc is in some way..."anti-taoist" but on the same token I dont know why it would have to be.

 

Maybe its not the making money that is anti taoist...maybe its the desire...but i have always been taught that in sales you have to have big goals, and work to achieve them...I feel conflicted.

 

Thoughts?

[JustARandomPanda]

It might help others better to help you if you explained what you mean by anti-taoist?

[voidisyinyang]

I am a little concerned.

I am a salesman. Now, I have a little different sales job. I sell market information and weather to farmers. i dont have to lie about my product or anything like that...so in that I feel good.

 

Here is my concern.

I have considered starting my own company doing something similar...but I dont have the money to do it.

If I cant pull that together I will have to do something different...only because my current job is not something that I can do forever. It is very much just a job. So on the one hand i have these goals and desires to earn an above average living...(I would like my wife to be able to stay home...there are things I need to do to my home...etc etc etc) but I am worried that having a desire to make money, or to start my own company etc etc is in some way..."anti-taoist" but on the same token I dont know why it would have to be.

 

Maybe its not the making money that is anti taoist...maybe its the desire...but i have always been taught that in sales you have to have big goals, and work to achieve them...I feel conflicted.

 

Thoughts?

 

Well I recommend watching this video of a healing master out of the Taoist tradition -- I think you'll have a better perspective on Taoism, etc.

 

[Old Man Contradiction]

There is nothing wrong with money, and nothing wrong with wanting money. Fundamentalism is anti-taoist. I believe strict adherence to preset principals is truly anti-taoist. This, I believe, is ass-backwards and the total opposite of what the old masters were trying to teach. Yet, it is commonly found here on this forum.

Edited August 13, 2010 by Old Man Contradiction

[That Guy]

So what if it is anti doaist??? If you get what you want, and no one is getting harmed do it, stop being afraid of imaginary rules

Your desire to be daoist is anti daoist

[Marblehead]

Excellent points from Old Man and That Guy.

 

To benefit yourself and those you love is not anti-Taoist. It is important in Taoism that we take care of our physical essence.

 

To seek out employment that is consistent with your nature is very Taoist.

 

To seek out security for yourself and those you care about is very Taoist.

 

To afix your life on material goals is not Taoist.

 

There is nothing wrong with becoming financially affluent. But remember, once you have enough it is Taoist to give your excess to those who do not have enough. Most people forget this part because they get attached to the things they have and regretfully for most people the more they get the more they want.

 

So I suggest that your goals are just fine as long as they do not turn into desires for excess.

 

Peace & Love!

[Apech]

I think the other posters are right who say there is nothing anti-taoist about running a business and making money. It would be a challenge of sorts to run a business in a Taoist way though because of the commercial pressures in the world which tend to make people aggressive and protective. But I think it would be very Taoist if you could recognize and respond to the ebb and flow of market pressures and demands in a wei-wu-wei way ... but I think that you would have to be quite 'advanced' to do this.

 

Good luck with everything.

[mcompton1973]

Thank you.

I am still in a very early learning stage...and reading bits and pieces of different things on the internet, I was not sure if what I was reading was credible or not. I was going to cut and paste what had caused me concern, but I cant find it now...so no worries. Thank you.

[Ryan T.]

I think the other posters are right who say there is nothing anti-taoist about running a business and making money.

 

While I tend to agree with this as I generally understand Taoism, I would think it matters more how the OP defines Taoism.

 

If his ideas on Taoism link farming with an unnatural way of life, then yes, his job is in conflict with his beliefs. And reading between the lines he as much as said that this is a concern for him on some level, though my example is purely hypothetical. For his personal version of Taoism he may be at odds with his beliefs every waking moment of his life. So it's a little difficult to say that he isn't at odds with Taoism because he hasn't really defined his ideas on it for me/us to make a very informed opinion.

 

Plus, the whole desire thing seems way more Buddhist than Taoist. At least how he put it, IMO.

[metal dog]

You have demonstrated that you are the type of person capable of self-reflection enough to even consider and ask this type of question. Whether you regard it as ethics, virtue or morality.

My friend...you have already won the battle.

Unlike the majority of zombies that walk the earth.

 

Strength and perseverance to you in all your endeavors...may abundance be yours.

[Gaelicrock]

The first chakra is establishing yourself-having all the basic needs.

 

The second chakra is creativity and productivity-you need the basics in order to do this.

 

The third chakra is being fulfilled-being able to live comfortable, as you want. This is not to be confused with the "American dream" or any other ideas of excessive luxury.

 

You simply seem to be a man living at the first chakra, who is looking to advance to the third chakra level. I'm not saying you don't have comfort and that you aren't prosperous, but hopefully this metaphorical explanation of the chakra levels will give you comfort in knowing that it is natural to not want to stay in what I am supposing you consider a "stagnant" phase in your life.

[de_paradise]

Selling info to farmers really is nice compared to most "stuff" out there.

 

Most everyone here has the same conflict of interests because as lay pratitioners we are out in the world of capitalism.

 

If you are a hard-core meditator and doing 5 hours plus, then holding a normal job is a bit counter-productive. If its less than 2 hours a day, then you shouldnt have much problem fitting it in between all the mundane duties of life.

 

Vajrayogini practise is meant to help a spiritual seeker get beyond the fetters of everyday life including work, because its clear that mundane life is a kind of barrier to making spiritual progress, as much as we wish it were not the case, it is.