Taoist Philosophy

[sufidao]

Hi Sufidao,

 

I am an Atheist therefore I must discriminate between the root philosophy of Taoism and of the pre-Lao Tzu Shamanism and the post-Chuang Tzu Religion.

 

No, it is nothing new. It has existed for thousands of years. There are many here who can explain the evolution of Taoism much better than I can so I will leave that alone.

 

It is my understanding that the Chinese, in the most part, do not discriminate between the different aspects of Taoism. It is we of the West that do that.

 

Almost any translation into English of the Tao Te Ching will be based on the philosophical aspect of Taoism only and even in the translator's introduction and notes rarely will we see anything mentioned of the pre-Lao Tzu Taoism.

 

I've never wanted to discuss these matters. Let me, just mention in passing that you modern Westerners are extremely mannerless. Once in the name of colonialism you enter the sacred East and harm people. Once in the name of missionary you come and destroy all believes and replace yours. Once through your satanic media come to the East to implant your own ideologies whether fundamentalism or modernism ... All your sciences and academic researches are biased and based on temporary paradigms, always prone to changes (according to political matters).

 

Besides, in recent academic atmosphere of the West, so many scholars have come to discern falsehood of the ideas such as "post-Chuang-Tzu Religion" or "Philosophical Taoism" and so on. Just take a look at the works of Livia Kohn, Louis Komjathy, James Miller, Sarah Alan, Russel Kirkland, Anna Seidel and many others.

 

Komjathy says,"outside of the modern world, there is no form of Daoism that is not “religious.” Although there are aspects of Daoism that are “philosophical,” “philosophical Daoism” fails to consider the centrality of embodied practice (way of being), community, and place in Daoism, especially in “classical Daoism.” It is based on a systematic mischaracterization of the inner cultivation lineages of Warring States Daoism and a misreading of the earliest Daoist texts, namely, the Laozi (Lao-tzu; a.k.a. Daode jing) and Zhuangzi (Chuang-tzu), among others."

[Stosh]

If you never wanted to discuss these matters , you could always opt to ,, not to.

But it appears you want to deride western influence and blame person B for the acts of person A

Why would anyone want to do that ? Its because they dont have anything bad to say about person B,

and they want to find something.

I expect a great many posts that you will write have the same slant, Ill have to check and see.

[Marblehead]

I've never wanted to discuss these matters. Let me, just mention in passing that you modern Westerners are extremely mannerless.

I must respond to this in a devoted post. Seems to me you started out doing the very thing you accuse Westerners of doing. Shame on you!!!

[Marblehead]

Once in the name of colonialism you enter the sacred East and harm people. Once in the name of missionary you come and destroy all believes and replace yours. Once through your satanic media come to the East to implant your own ideologies whether fundamentalism or modernism ... All your sciences and academic researches are biased and based on temporary paradigms, always prone to changes (according to political matters).

 

 

So should we also talk about what recently happened in Boston? Killing innocent people?

 

Our sciences are based on the roots of scientific inquiry that was started by the Arabs. The Arabs fell asleep but then the Westerners woke up and built upon what the Arabs started. In the most part I think most Arabs are still sleeping.

[Marblehead]

Besides, in recent academic atmosphere of the West, so many scholars have come to discern falsehood of the ideas such as "post-Chuang-Tzu Religion" or "Philosophical Taoism" and so on. Just take a look at the works of Livia Kohn, Louis Komjathy, James Miller, Sarah Alan, Russel Kirkland, Anna Seidel and many others.

And may I ask what wonderous qualifications you have in order to critique those who have esteemed themselves?

 

 

[Marblehead]

Komjathy says,"outside of the modern world, there is no form of Daoism that is not “religious.” Although there are aspects of Daoism that are “philosophical,” “philosophical Daoism” fails to consider the centrality of embodied practice (way of being), community, and place in Daoism, especially in “classical Daoism.” It is based on a systematic mischaracterization of the inner cultivation lineages of Warring States Daoism and a misreading of the earliest Daoist texts, namely, the Laozi (Lao-tzu; a.k.a. Daode jing) and Zhuangzi (Chuang-tzu), among others."

The first sentence is bullshit. It is only that person's personal opinion, not a statement of fact.

 

So are you saying that Taoism is no longer a valid belief system because time has passed? That would invalidate all belief systems then, wouldn't it?

 

If you don't believe Taoism is a valid belief system what are you doing on this forum?

 

I am a "Philosophical Taoist" and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it. It is a self labelling and I have the free will to do such.

 

Anyhow, if you wish to talk about "Philosophical Taoism" then this is one of hundreds of threads you can do that in. If you wish to talk about the invalidity of "Philosophical Taoism" then please start your own thread and I am sure you will have a very lively discussion with other members of this forum.

[sufidao]

OK
I expressed my thoughts and you spoke your mind.

That's it.

Edited May 6, 2013 by sufidao

[Maddie]

OK

I expressed my thoughts and you spoke your mind.

 

That's it.

 

Hey Sufidao I see that your location is Iran. It's interesting to see someone from there on this forum. I'm curious about a few things. Are you a taoist there? Are you muslim also? I've been increasingly curious about Sufi practices that are similar to Taoist and Buddhist cultivation practices. What is your take on things?

[Marblehead]

OK

I expressed my thoughts and you spoke your mind.

 

That's it.

Yes, now that that is over perhaps we will find the opportunity to have some nice, respectful & productive discussions.

[sufidao]

Hey Sufidao I see that your location is Iran. It's interesting to see someone from there on this forum. I'm curious about a few things. Are you a taoist there? Are you muslim also? I've been increasingly curious about Sufi practices that are similar to Taoist and Buddhist cultivation practices. What is your take on things?

 

I prefer to talk about personal matters privately. As to Sufism, yes, it has lots of things, metaphysically and practically, in common with Daoism and Mahayana Buddhism. Sufi practices can be categorized in five divisions:

1-Contemplative (tafakkur)

2-Meditative (muraqiba)

3-Mantric (dhikr)

4-Devotional (awrad)

5-Calculative (muhasiba)

 

The end, in Sufism, is to become free of individuality and full of the Divine. 1001 Divine Names play a prominent role is Sufi practices.