The Pursuit of Power

[Sloppy Zhang]

So lately I've tried to cut down the amount of time I spend posting on forums, mostly because I have other things to do, and also because, well, most of the conversations don't go very far. Running on treadmills is good exercise, but when you want to get somewhere, it's best to get off.

 

However, I find that many threads involving technical or how-to aspects of training get bogged down with philosophical discussion. Case in point, ralis' third eye thread. It's a question asked by a lot of people, and is representative of a lot of different aspects. You ask, "how do I open the third eye? What's a good method?" And instead of some good techniques, a lot of what you get is, "well why do you want to open the third eye?" "the fact that you ask this question means you aren't ready" "are you looking for psychic powers? Why do you want those?" "perhaps you should focus on living a good life, chop wood, carry water...." etc etc etc etc.

 

On a personal note, responses like that kind of piss me off. Someone is asking a how-to. They aren't looking to open up some philosophical discussion. I've been around long enough to know that, yes, personal philosophy/motivations can play a big impact on performance and your own personal development but.... who cares? If I go to a muscle building website, who cares if I want to bulk up so I can attract the ladies or to help my parents with chores out on their farm?

 

 

But since so many people seem intent on discussing the philosophy, and all the "why's" behind why someone should, or should not, pursue powers, abilities, high amounts of energy, feats of extraordinary mental/physical/spiritual cultivation, thereby drowning out some potentially helpful responses, I decided to make a kind of catch all thread where you can write and discuss your own and others' opinions on the pursuit of all the aforementioned and whatever you can come up with yourself.

 

And please please please, stop flooding threads where someone asks a technical question with your own personal philosophy or questions about their motivations.

 

 

So, have at it

Edited August 14, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Mokona]

So much fun can be had from developing or "playing" with those who have a *high level of cultivation* Unfortunatly the mentally ill are capable of it too, but I suppose all that means is that all humans have the ability to figure this sort of thing out, even the simplest dude on the street corner. Although there seems to be this "test" alot of people think is required in order to learn "power" in the psy area. Although many tests are given out in the spirit, too. I've had one or two come my way... The ones I failed reflected the amount of training still required. I suppose that the feelings that reside in me reflect a more open and willingness to experiment, express, teach and learn about chi and abilities that I don't often see. At least with my Reiki teacher, and my associates there has never been a witholding of information unless there was danger involved.

 

Such as the time I asked how I could most quickly activate Kundalini while I was stationed in a combat zone. No one was willing to help me on that one *Bad idea that* Although it was becuase there was a worry for my safety that I couldn't get help.

[Marblehead]

Hi Sloppy,

 

I pretty much agree with you.

 

When a Thread is created with a question directed to a particular subject I think the thread should stay on topic until it come to a natural end and then, if there is a desire to link it with another subject then go for it. But at least address the original question.

 

So, in line with your thoughts, I will speak to my quasi-practice of working out with dead weights and my Tai Chi.

 

I do nearly all my own work around my property. There are many things I need do that require either good strength or great coordination. When I find my strength is decreasing to an unacceptable level or my coordination is getting sloppy (I had to use that word) I start an exercise program, work myself back up to my goals and then stop until again needed.

 

I think the most important reason we should practice any kind of practice is so we can perform better in life. Sure, attracting females for a young man is probably important too.

 

Peace & Love!

[Astral_Anima]

Hey Sloppy,

definately agree. Alot of "beating around the bush" going on; not answering questions cause they don't know or don't wanna say.

 

Personally I pursue a particular set of abilities/skills/traits all for particular reasons based on earth's current situation

 

Breatharianism- So I can live without money and serve humanity freely

Physical/Qi power- To protect people from those who abuse authority or power and to heal others

Spiritual power- To protect people from negative spiritual influences

Love- 'Cause that's why I live

Wisdom- to know how to direct all of the above in the best way to get the best outcome and to help others free themselves.

 

And of course I wish liberation from the cycle of rebirth so I can continue my "mission" more effectively. Reincarnating on this planet with the way things are runs a high risk of me not "awakening", or "awakening" late, so it's better if I just stay in this incarnation until situation is better.

 

Also I think if one is going to practice attainment of power they should always balance it with wisdom and love; in fact i think all 3 should be cultivated together because without all 3 you're in lack and will continue to face problems/suffering. Cultivation of "virtue" and awareness/control of mind/body is also important I believe; as is being able to love and enjoy life. Also to have the power to protect yourself and your loved ones from negative influences.

 

That's me in a nutshell, lol.

[Gaelicrock]

Hey man!

 

I'm the guy who you didn't want to offend on the other forum!

 

i think that if someone posts a topic like, "How do I open my third eye," then we should show concern for that person's well-being. If he does not understand some part of it, then he will only cause damage to himself.

 

I like using the (probably over-used) Anakin Skywalker metaphor, where a person just wants to have the cool "powers" without any of the real work.

 

These "powers" should not be passed around without discretion. Are you the kind of person that would let someone copy your homework? If you are, then you are very irresponsible for that person. You are crippling them for the rest of their lives.

 

The original masters did not have a how-to book or step-by-step instructions. They had to figure it out for themselves.

[Sloppy Zhang]

I like using the (probably over-used) Anakin Skywalker metaphor, where a person just wants to have the cool "powers" without any of the real work.

 

I'm a bit of a star wars fan, so I'm going to run with this for a bit........

 

The thing about Anakin Skywalker specifically, was that he didn't want cool powers with no real work. He wanted powers to HELP people. This is looked at a bit more in the expanded universe than in the movies (which portrayed this horribly). Basically, he didn't want people to die. His mother died, and he felt powerless to help. He never wanted that to happen again. His master, Obi-Wan, was skilled, but Anakin, being the "chosen one", thought he was better, so he was always willing to get his master out of any rough situations.

 

During the Clone Wars, Anakin would rarely, if ever, let the clone troopers under his command do anything. Anakin would usually rush in on his own, and try to clean up the place for himself, because he didn't want to see anyone die when he could have done something himself.

 

Later on, with his wife, he saw visions of her dying, the same thing that happened with his mother just before her death (and he blamed himself for not being strong enough to stop it). He did not want his wife to die. So he turned to his masters and asked for advice, how to gain powers, how to prevent people from dying. And what answers did he receive?

 

"Well people live and people die. It's the natural way of things."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really care about someone, and you don't want them to die?"

 

"Well it's good to have compassion for things, but you should learn to let things go...."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really, REALLY cared about someone, and you wanted to get stronger to prevent them from getting hurt?"

 

"You should not hold a selfish love for any one particular thing, nor should you seek to amass power to hold on to that thing, or prevent it from going its natural course. Such attachment is not the jedi way."

 

(does any of this sound familiar? )

 

Of course, something the Jedi did not understand were Anakin's true motivations. In episode I, Qui-Gon Jinn explains how in more advanced planets, Jedi are found at birth and taken from their parents. No Jedi in Anakin's time had ever experienced the personal connection between a child and mother, nor between a specific individual. No Jedi properly understood how Anakin felt.

 

Instead, they responded with the textbook answer:

 

"It's not right to seek power."

 

He tried to tell people how he just HAD to be made a Jedi master. But he DIDN'T tell them that the reason he had to be a master was so that he could access restricted information involving force powers which might possibly be used to save his wife- and having a wife, or any sort of attachment like that, was forbidden to the jedi.

 

So what did Anakin do? He looked for someone who understood him (and if you think about it, Palpatine really did understand Anakin better than the Jedi, which is why he could manipulate Anakin so easily). He looked for someone who would offer him something that he could not find from the Jedi.

 

If you look in the expanded universe, that's how a LOT of sith are created- their teachers just sling textbook responses their way, they do not seek to understand the frustration their students are feeling, they do not attempt to teach to the student, and in "doing what's best" for the student, they drive the student in the opposite direction.

 

 

The same thing is happening in real life. In many cases, right here on this forum. Rather than seeking to understand people, they just sling the textbook answer.

 

I have experimented with a few things in the past. I personally have a very good understanding about the use and misuse of power. When I see people misusing power, it affects me very strongly. But that's just from my personal experience. I don't have the authority or power to make people see things my way, to make them act in the way I'd act, or to stop them from doing anything wrong. I don't know if I'd even want to do that if I had the power to do so. I personally don't know what I'd do in a given situation involving "powers". However, I have a good idea of what I WOULDN'T do.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[Gaelicrock]

I'm a bit of a star wars fan, so I'm going to run with this for a bit........

 

The thing about Anakin Skywalker specifically, was that he didn't want cool powers with no real work. He wanted powers to HELP people. This is looked at a bit more in the expanded universe than in the movies (which portrayed this horribly). Basically, he didn't want people to die. His mother died, and he was powerless to help. He never wanted that to happen again. His master, Obi-Wan, was skilled, but Anakin, being the "chosen one", thought he was better, so he was always willing to get his master out of any rough situations.

 

During the Clone Wars, Anakin would rarely, if ever, let the clone troopers under his command do anything. Anakin would usually rush in on his own, and try to clean up the place for himself, because he didn't want to see anyone die when he could have done something himself.

 

Later on, with his wife, he saw visions of her dying, the same thing that happened with his mother. He did not want his wife to die. So he turned to his masters and asked for advice, how to gain powers, how to prevent people from dying. And what answers did he receive?

 

"Well people live and people die. It's the natural way of things."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really care about someone, and you don't want them to die?"

 

"Well it's good to have compassion for things, but you should learn to let things go...."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really, REALLY cared about someone, and you wanted to get stronger to prevent them from getting hurt?"

 

"You should not hold a selfish love for any one particular thing, nor should you seek to amass power to hold on to that thing. Such attachment is not the jedi way."

 

(does any of this sound familiar? )

 

Of course, something the Jedi did not understand were Anakin's true motivations. In episode I, Qui-Gon Jinn explains how in more advanced planets, Jedi are found at birth and taken from their parents. No Jedi in Anakin's time had ever experienced the personal connection between a child and mother, nor between a specific individual. No Jedi properly understood how Anakin felt.

 

Instead, they responded with the textbook answer:

 

"It's not right to seek power."

 

He tried to tell people how he just HAD to be made a Jedi master. But he DIDN'T tell them that the reason he had to be a master was so that he could access restricted information involving force powers which might possibly be used to save his wife- and having a wife, or any sort of attachment like that, was forbidden to the jedi.

 

So what did Anakin do? He looked for someone who understood him (and if you think about it, Palpatine really did understand Anakin better than the Jedi, which is why he could manipulate Anakin so easily). He looked for someone who would offer him something that he could not find for the Jedi.

 

If you look in the expanded universe, that's how a LOT of sith are created- their teachers just sling textbook responses their way, they do not seek to understand the frustration their students are feeling, they do not attempt to teach to the student, and in "doing what's best" for the student, they drive them in the opposite direction.

 

 

The same thing is happening in real life. In many cases, right here on this forum. Rather than seeking to understand people, they just sling the textbook answer.

 

I have experimented with a few things in the past. I personally have a very good understanding about the use and misuse of power. When I see people misusing power, it affects me very strongly. But that's just from my personal experience. I don't have the authority or power to make people see things my way, to make them act in the way I'd act, or to stop them from doing anything wrong. I don't know if I'd even want to do that if I had the power to do so. I personally don't know what I'd do in a given situation involving "powers". However, I have a good idea of what I WOULDN'T do.

 

Ha, I saw your quote down below, and knew I'd made the right choice.

 

I very much like the way you think.

[ralis]

I'm a bit of a star wars fan, so I'm going to run with this for a bit........

 

The thing about Anakin Skywalker specifically, was that he didn't want cool powers with no real work. He wanted powers to HELP people. This is looked at a bit more in the expanded universe than in the movies (which portrayed this horribly). Basically, he didn't want people to die. His mother died, and he was powerless to help. He never wanted that to happen again. His master, Obi-Wan, was skilled, but Anakin, being the "chosen one", thought he was better, so he was always willing to get his master out of any rough situations.

 

During the Clone Wars, Anakin would rarely, if ever, let the clone troopers under his command do anything. Anakin would usually rush in on his own, and try to clean up the place for himself, because he didn't want to see anyone die when he could have done something himself.

 

Later on, with his wife, he saw visions of her dying, the same thing that happened with his mother just before her death (and he blamed himself for not being strong enough to stop it). He did not want his wife to die. So he turned to his masters and asked for advice, how to gain powers, how to prevent people from dying. And what answers did he receive?

 

"Well people live and people die. It's the natural way of things."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really care about someone, and you don't want them to die?"

 

"Well it's good to have compassion for things, but you should learn to let things go...."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really, REALLY cared about someone, and you wanted to get stronger to prevent them from getting hurt?"

 

"You should not hold a selfish love for any one particular thing, nor should you seek to amass power to hold on to that thing, or prevent it from going its natural course. Such attachment is not the jedi way."

 

(does any of this sound familiar? )

 

Of course, something the Jedi did not understand were Anakin's true motivations. In episode I, Qui-Gon Jinn explains how in more advanced planets, Jedi are found at birth and taken from their parents. No Jedi in Anakin's time had ever experienced the personal connection between a child and mother, nor between a specific individual. No Jedi properly understood how Anakin felt.

 

Instead, they responded with the textbook answer:

 

"It's not right to seek power."

 

He tried to tell people how he just HAD to be made a Jedi master. But he DIDN'T tell them that the reason he had to be a master was so that he could access restricted information involving force powers which might possibly be used to save his wife- and having a wife, or any sort of attachment like that, was forbidden to the jedi.

 

So what did Anakin do? He looked for someone who understood him (and if you think about it, Palpatine really did understand Anakin better than the Jedi, which is why he could manipulate Anakin so easily). He looked for someone who would offer him something that he could not find for the Jedi.

 

If you look in the expanded universe, that's how a LOT of sith are created- their teachers just sling textbook responses their way, they do not seek to understand the frustration their students are feeling, they do not attempt to teach to the student, and in "doing what's best" for the student, they drive them in the opposite direction.

 

 

The same thing is happening in real life. In many cases, right here on this forum. Rather than seeking to understand people, they just sling the textbook answer.

 

I have experimented with a few things in the past. I personally have a very good understanding about the use and misuse of power. When I see people misusing power, it affects me very strongly. But that's just from my personal experience. I don't have the authority or power to make people see things my way, to make them act in the way I'd act, or to stop them from doing anything wrong. I don't know if I'd even want to do that if I had the power to do so. I personally don't know what I'd do in a given situation involving "powers". However, I have a good idea of what I WOULDN'T do.

 

 

I have been a Star Wars fan since the first one came out. What you have written is worth careful consideration.

 

Here is a quote from Bladerunner.

 

Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave. .... Batty:

 

 

ralis

Edited August 16, 2010 by ralis

[Mokona]

On a related note I have run into one person who amassed a great deal of "ability" in the spirit and he related to me his most driving reason being that he: "Wanted to protect."

 

The reason, or intent pushing a person forward, in my experience is quality and quantity of fuel within that person that will predict the outcome. I really wanted to learn how to heal, since my dad started showing signs that he was off his rocker when I was a young teen. Therefore I pushed myself to meditating two hours a day, and then collided with a few people much more advanced than myself(or you might call them "experienced") anyhow - even if a person's intent is "evil" (Whatever that really means) if it is strong enough I can see them making progress in this field.

 

I have yet to run across any astral "Police."

 

*Edit for more fun information*

 

Past ties and natural ability also come into play, then to add a bit more.. Those who the spirit also takes an interest in progress quickly. Such as someone who *thinks* he/she has an imaginary friend until they realize that imaginary friend is actually a guiding spirit.

 

Honestly, developing in the realm of the spiritual has so many variables i'm smahingly amazed that we try to measure outcomes and predict the how and why. I may have just wrote that last bit backwards, lol.

 

I'd like to see more input in this thread. Even if I have to share my wierd stories to light a fire to it.

Edited August 17, 2010 by Mokona

[Astral_Anima]

I'm a bit of a star wars fan, so I'm going to run with this for a bit........

 

The thing about Anakin Skywalker specifically, was that he didn't want cool powers with no real work. He wanted powers to HELP people. This is looked at a bit more in the expanded universe than in the movies (which portrayed this horribly). Basically, he didn't want people to die. His mother died, and he felt powerless to help. He never wanted that to happen again. His master, Obi-Wan, was skilled, but Anakin, being the "chosen one", thought he was better, so he was always willing to get his master out of any rough situations.

 

During the Clone Wars, Anakin would rarely, if ever, let the clone troopers under his command do anything. Anakin would usually rush in on his own, and try to clean up the place for himself, because he didn't want to see anyone die when he could have done something himself.

 

Later on, with his wife, he saw visions of her dying, the same thing that happened with his mother just before her death (and he blamed himself for not being strong enough to stop it). He did not want his wife to die. So he turned to his masters and asked for advice, how to gain powers, how to prevent people from dying. And what answers did he receive?

 

"Well people live and people die. It's the natural way of things."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really care about someone, and you don't want them to die?"

 

"Well it's good to have compassion for things, but you should learn to let things go...."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really, REALLY cared about someone, and you wanted to get stronger to prevent them from getting hurt?"

 

"You should not hold a selfish love for any one particular thing, nor should you seek to amass power to hold on to that thing, or prevent it from going its natural course. Such attachment is not the jedi way."

 

(does any of this sound familiar? )

 

Of course, something the Jedi did not understand were Anakin's true motivations. In episode I, Qui-Gon Jinn explains how in more advanced planets, Jedi are found at birth and taken from their parents. No Jedi in Anakin's time had ever experienced the personal connection between a child and mother, nor between a specific individual. No Jedi properly understood how Anakin felt.

 

Instead, they responded with the textbook answer:

 

"It's not right to seek power."

 

He tried to tell people how he just HAD to be made a Jedi master. But he DIDN'T tell them that the reason he had to be a master was so that he could access restricted information involving force powers which might possibly be used to save his wife- and having a wife, or any sort of attachment like that, was forbidden to the jedi.

 

So what did Anakin do? He looked for someone who understood him (and if you think about it, Palpatine really did understand Anakin better than the Jedi, which is why he could manipulate Anakin so easily). He looked for someone who would offer him something that he could not find from the Jedi.

 

If you look in the expanded universe, that's how a LOT of sith are created- their teachers just sling textbook responses their way, they do not seek to understand the frustration their students are feeling, they do not attempt to teach to the student, and in "doing what's best" for the student, they drive the student in the opposite direction.

 

 

The same thing is happening in real life. In many cases, right here on this forum. Rather than seeking to understand people, they just sling the textbook answer.

 

I have experimented with a few things in the past. I personally have a very good understanding about the use and misuse of power. When I see people misusing power, it affects me very strongly. But that's just from my personal experience. I don't have the authority or power to make people see things my way, to make them act in the way I'd act, or to stop them from doing anything wrong. I don't know if I'd even want to do that if I had the power to do so. I personally don't know what I'd do in a given situation involving "powers". However, I have a good idea of what I WOULDN'T do.

 

O.O Damn man, this post says it all. Someone should "Sticky" this

[Sloppy Zhang]

O.O Damn man, this post says it all. Someone should "Sticky" this

 

I'm glad so many people are responding positively to that very nerdy post

 

 

 

Earlier today, my mom lost her reading glasses. She had them in the morning, but in the afternoon she couldn't find them. She was looking all over the place all afternoon, and didn't find them until later in the evening. She got me and my sister to help her look, but we couldn't find them either. I just kept thinking, "if only I could psychically find these....." (my mom later found her glasses).

 

I've thought about things like dowsing before. Finding missing persons. Finding terrorists and other criminals. Lots of good use.

 

It really bothers me when those in the spiritual community say things like, "oh, you shouldn't focus so much on parlor tricks, you should instead pursue real spiritual development." Or things like, "oh those tricks are just distractions from the real path." But then turn around and say things like, "oh yeah, my teacher is able to psychically tell where people are, but he won't teach you because it's a distraction, and he doesn't want to prove it because he has better things to do, and he doesn't want all the publicity."

 

Seriously, many "powers" have overwhelmingly positive purposes, which would really help fix a lot of problems. I see nothing wrong with pursing these "powers" because of all the help.

 

Obviously I don't think spiritual/moral/whatever development should be ignored. But neither should "powers/abilities". Studying them simultaneously with other aspects of spiritual development help put them in the proper context, for those who are concerned about abuse of powers.

 

And, people tend to assume that if you give people powers that they will abuse it and the world would just crumble. Sure, there's probably always going to be abuse of power. But it's not like the "bad guys" will be the only ones who could abuse power, and it's not like the "good guys" won't have the power to check them.

 

And in the meantime, people like my mom won't have problems finding her reading glasses.

 

*waits patiently for someone to say "it was your mom's karma to lose her glasses" and "it's karma that we can't find missing persons" or "it would not be karmically possible to have the world's spiritual advancement move to the point where these abilities are so widespread*

Edited August 17, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang

[ralis]

I'm glad so many people are responding positively to that very nerdy post

 

 

 

Earlier today, my mom lost her reading glasses. She had them in the morning, but in the afternoon she couldn't find them. She was looking all over the place all afternoon, and didn't find them until later in the evening. She got me and my sister to help her look, but we couldn't find them either. I just kept thinking, "if only I could psychically find these....." (my mom later found her glasses).

 

I've thought about things like dowsing before. Finding missing persons. Finding terrorists and other criminals. Lots of good use.

 

It really bothers me when those in the spiritual community say things like, "oh, you shouldn't focus so much on parlor tricks, you should instead pursue real spiritual development." Or things like, "oh those tricks are just distractions from the real path." But then turn around and say things like, "oh yeah, my teacher is able to psychically tell where people are, but he won't teach you because it's a distraction, and he doesn't want to prove it because he has better things to do, and he doesn't want all the publicity."

 

Seriously, many "powers" have overwhelmingly positive purposes, which would really help fix a lot of problems. I see nothing wrong with pursing these "powers" because of all the help.

 

Obviously I don't think spiritual/moral/whatever development should be ignored. But neither should "powers/abilities". Studying them simultaneously with other aspects of spiritual development help put them in the proper context, for those who are concerned about abuse of powers.

 

And, people tend to assume that if you give people powers that they will abuse it and the world would just crumble. Sure, there's probably always going to be abuse of power. But it's not like the "bad guys" will be the only ones who could abuse power, and it's not like the "good guys" won't have the power to check them.

 

And in the meantime, people like my mom won't have problems finding her reading glasses.

 

*waits patiently for someone to say "it was your mom's karma to lose her glasses" and "it's karma that we can't find missing persons" or "it would not be karmically possible to have the world's spiritual advancement move to the point where these abilities are so widespread*

 

Humans in general are authoritarian and hierarchical. It doesn't matter what context i.e, spiritual, political etc. Any excuse is used to keep power in the hands of the elite.

 

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Third-Reich-History/dp/0671728687/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282015715&sr=8-8

 

http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Roman-Empire-Everymans/dp/0679423087

Gibbons wrote a series on the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four-George-Orwell/dp/0452284236/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282016061&sr=1-1

 

I believe it is prudent to understand propaganda and how trance states are used for crowd control.

 

 

ralis

[Astral_Anima]

I'm glad so many people are responding positively to that very nerdy post

 

 

 

Earlier today, my mom lost her reading glasses. She had them in the morning, but in the afternoon she couldn't find them. She was looking all over the place all afternoon, and didn't find them until later in the evening. She got me and my sister to help her look, but we couldn't find them either. I just kept thinking, "if only I could psychically find these....." (my mom later found her glasses).

 

I've thought about things like dowsing before. Finding missing persons. Finding terrorists and other criminals. Lots of good use.

 

It really bothers me when those in the spiritual community say things like, "oh, you shouldn't focus so much on parlor tricks, you should instead pursue real spiritual development." Or things like, "oh those tricks are just distractions from the real path." But then turn around and say things like, "oh yeah, my teacher is able to psychically tell where people are, but he won't teach you because it's a distraction, and he doesn't want to prove it because he has better things to do, and he doesn't want all the publicity."

 

Seriously, many "powers" have overwhelmingly positive purposes, which would really help fix a lot of problems. I see nothing wrong with pursing these "powers" because of all the help.

 

Obviously I don't think spiritual/moral/whatever development should be ignored. But neither should "powers/abilities". Studying them simultaneously with other aspects of spiritual development help put them in the proper context, for those who are concerned about abuse of powers.

 

And, people tend to assume that if you give people powers that they will abuse it and the world would just crumble. Sure, there's probably always going to be abuse of power. But it's not like the "bad guys" will be the only ones who could abuse power, and it's not like the "good guys" won't have the power to check them.

 

And in the meantime, people like my mom won't have problems finding her reading glasses.

 

*waits patiently for someone to say "it was your mom's karma to lose her glasses" and "it's karma that we can't find missing persons" or "it would not be karmically possible to have the world's spiritual advancement move to the point where these abilities are so widespread*

 

Even should the original karma of someone effect them negatively if one has compassion they should gladly go against that to help them. I mean if they make the effort to change should they not be helped and shown mercy? I mean there's no point in helping a drunk get over a hangover if he's just gonna keep drinking, but what if you cured someone of cancer and told them how it was caused and you gave them a way to live disease free? or if someone if suffering from bad relationships and you can identify the problem and give them advise and they follow it, and you decide to help them clear the problem...If one was left to their karma then no master would give any energy transmission or heal others.

[Astral_Anima]

Humans in general are authoritarian and hierarchical. It doesn't matter what context i.e, spiritual, political etc. Any excuse is used to keep power in the hands of the elite.

 

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

 

http://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Third-Reich-History/dp/0671728687/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282015715&sr=8-8

 

http://www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Roman-Empire-Everymans/dp/0679423087

Gibbons wrote a series on the Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four-George-Orwell/dp/0452284236/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1282016061&sr=1-1

 

I believe it is prudent to understand propaganda and how trance states are used for crowd control.

 

 

ralis

 

I just bought all three of those books (only $20 for the lot). They better be good

[ralis]

I just bought all three of those books (only $20 for the lot). They better be good

 

Excellent choices! Especially 1984! I read that book in 1964 and it really scared me!

 

History is full of examples, the crusades, Spanish Inquisition, holy wars etc. I know these are extreme examples. However, the primary motivation is always the same. Whether it is some spiritual guru or spiritual conquest.

 

 

ralis

Edited August 17, 2010 by ralis

[Sloppy Zhang]

I believe it is prudent to understand propaganda and how trance states are used for crowd control.

 

I'm a communication studies major, and that's one of the things we talk about, and it's a subject that I've pursued with a couple of my professors. It's really scary stuff. And every time I turn on the tv, I see it happen.

 

The sad thing is, though, I feel like Cassandra- I can see it happening, but I'm unable to convince anyone. It really bothers me

 

I mean there's no point in helping a drunk get over a hangover if he's just gonna keep drinking,

 

If you know a way to help them get over a hangover, then why not help them? Sure, they're probably going to get wasted again, wake up with another hangover again.... but is that a reason to not help them this time?

 

My best friend always winds up with a terrible girlfriend, and he always needs help with bad relationship situations, I help him out, and he just does it again.... does that mean that the next time he has relationship troubles, I shouldn't help him because he just keeps on getting into the mess?

 

Even if I explain the reason is because he keeps looking for external validation by dating a girl even though their relationship winds up crashing and burning and is based on lies, he still does it... does that mean I shouldn't help him?

 

 

I guess it boils down to:

 

Should you help, even though it's futile? Should we ignore someone in need just because we feel like our input won't change anything?

 

(it certainly feels that way on internet forums sometimes *thinks back to the days when I come to TTB and see three identical topics made by three different people all on the first page....* )

[Lucky7Strikes]

In my opinion many people who say things in the line of "oh powers are a waste of time, you should focus on real spiritual development" don't know anything about powers but feel the need assert superiority some way.

[Sloppy Zhang]

In my opinion many people who say things in the line of "oh powers are a waste of time, you should focus on real spiritual development" don't know anything about powers but feel the need assert superiority some way.

 

I feel that this is true in many cases as well.

[Dreamingawake]

In my opinion many people who say things in the line of "oh powers are a waste of time, you should focus on real spiritual development" don't know anything about powers but feel the need assert superiority some way.

 

 

I feel that this is true in many cases as well.

 

You guys shouldn't be saying these things. You should just seek after enlightenment like my master who can walk on water and shoot lightning from his arse. BTW he doesn't teach these things because powers are just a distraction

[Astral_Anima]

 

If you know a way to help them get over a hangover, then why not help them? Sure, they're probably going to get wasted again, wake up with another hangover again.... but is that a reason to not help them this time?

 

My best friend always winds up with a terrible girlfriend, and he always needs help with bad relationship situations, I help him out, and he just does it again.... does that mean that the next time he has relationship troubles, I shouldn't help him because he just keeps on getting into the mess?

 

Even if I explain the reason is because he keeps looking for external validation by dating a girl even though their relationship winds up crashing and burning and is based on lies, he still does it... does that mean I shouldn't help him?

 

 

I guess it boils down to:

 

Should you help, even though it's futile? Should we ignore someone in need just because we feel like our input won't change anything?

 

(it certainly feels that way on internet forums sometimes *thinks back to the days when I come to TTB and see three identical topics made by three different people all on the first page....* )

 

Well i'm not saying anyone SHOULD do this or SHOULD do that, i'm really just projecting my own beliefs when i say such things because ultimately if someone has put in the work to attain their power they have the right to use it as they please. HOWEVER when using power to benefit people...personally I believe that people must make their own choices and learn the consequences of their choices, otherwise we could all just drink, smoke, eat junk and instead of relying on pills to stay alive we rely on the local qigong "pushover". The laws of cause and effect are there for a reason (to learn) and I don't think should be played with too much.

 

Powers and wisdom are two VERY diff things. I believe we should ALL help people constantly in terms of sharing wisdom and helping them with problems. When it comes to powers however, we should b more careful how we use them. healing especially should be used wisely. If people got a certain condition by doing a certain thing and you heal it and they go back to whatever they've been doing, then they're just going to suffer from it again. Or if karma is a singular force/entity then perhaps you've suppressed it and it will reappear worse later on if they don't start changing their lifestyle.

 

However I question whether karma is a singular force that is related to all aspects of one's life. ...idk. If someone gets a disease because of built of toxins or microbes (depends on which theory you submit) and you eliminate that source with transcendental power...will that merely suppress the karma causing it to resurface somewhere else? Or did you simply eliminate the cause of disease and that's that?

 

Regardless it's better to teach someone how to stay healthy and be self reliant rather than to just live the way they want and not have to take responsibility for their actions. That's my personal viewpoint.

 

In hindsight however, i guess little things like a wound or a minor pain or minor sickness wouldn't hurt as long as they didn't become dependent on you for everything. Personally if I had powers and wisdom and compassion I would want everyone to be like me so I would emphasize self reliance and try to help everyone reach my state of being, but that's just me.

 

Always consider carefully the outcome of your actions. You want to think it out so you know you're doing what's truly for the best of the individual. What may seem like helping them may actually be hurting them in the long run. Look at the service industry, the drug industry... they're all based around short term "fixes" without ever addressing the root cause of problems, so they create dependence. It's ego is you want everyone else to be lower than you and you want to be the "messiah" and have everyone praise you and love you, and that should be checked carefully. All motivations and actions should be kept under careful surveillance and constantly questioned. If you're looking for powers just for fame and glory and money then you'll likely fail and should re-evaluate your motivations.

[Mal]

[Junbao]

I have sometimes wondered why some people might want certain powers to do things a certain way when it can already be done. Like having something burst into flames while it is in your hand, when we already have numerous ways to start a fire. Or seeing through walls, when we have legs to simply walk around the wall and look on the other side. Spending hours trying to move something with your mind when you have arms and hands that are already made for this.

 

For me I pursue health and healing, for I really do believe that to be healthy is to be happy. To be healthy in body and mind, you feel well, think well, and are vibrant and full of life and energy. That's just my opinion anyway

[Kali Yuga]

I'm a bit of a star wars fan, so I'm going to run with this for a bit........

 

The thing about Anakin Skywalker specifically, was that he didn't want cool powers with no real work. He wanted powers to HELP people. This is looked at a bit more in the expanded universe than in the movies (which portrayed this horribly). Basically, he didn't want people to die. His mother died, and he felt powerless to help. He never wanted that to happen again. His master, Obi-Wan, was skilled, but Anakin, being the "chosen one", thought he was better, so he was always willing to get his master out of any rough situations.

 

During the Clone Wars, Anakin would rarely, if ever, let the clone troopers under his command do anything. Anakin would usually rush in on his own, and try to clean up the place for himself, because he didn't want to see anyone die when he could have done something himself.

 

Later on, with his wife, he saw visions of her dying, the same thing that happened with his mother just before her death (and he blamed himself for not being strong enough to stop it). He did not want his wife to die. So he turned to his masters and asked for advice, how to gain powers, how to prevent people from dying. And what answers did he receive?

 

"Well people live and people die. It's the natural way of things."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really care about someone, and you don't want them to die?"

 

"Well it's good to have compassion for things, but you should learn to let things go...."

 

To which he responded, "well what if you really, really, REALLY cared about someone, and you wanted to get stronger to prevent them from getting hurt?"

 

"You should not hold a selfish love for any one particular thing, nor should you seek to amass power to hold on to that thing, or prevent it from going its natural course. Such attachment is not the jedi way."

 

(does any of this sound familiar? )

 

Of course, something the Jedi did not understand were Anakin's true motivations. In episode I, Qui-Gon Jinn explains how in more advanced planets, Jedi are found at birth and taken from their parents. No Jedi in Anakin's time had ever experienced the personal connection between a child and mother, nor between a specific individual. No Jedi properly understood how Anakin felt.

 

Instead, they responded with the textbook answer:

 

"It's not right to seek power."

 

He tried to tell people how he just HAD to be made a Jedi master. But he DIDN'T tell them that the reason he had to be a master was so that he could access restricted information involving force powers which might possibly be used to save his wife- and having a wife, or any sort of attachment like that, was forbidden to the jedi.

 

So what did Anakin do? He looked for someone who understood him (and if you think about it, Palpatine really did understand Anakin better than the Jedi, which is why he could manipulate Anakin so easily). He looked for someone who would offer him something that he could not find from the Jedi.

 

If you look in the expanded universe, that's how a LOT of sith are created- their teachers just sling textbook responses their way, they do not seek to understand the frustration their students are feeling, they do not attempt to teach to the student, and in "doing what's best" for the student, they drive the student in the opposite direction.

 

 

The same thing is happening in real life. In many cases, right here on this forum. Rather than seeking to understand people, they just sling the textbook answer.

 

I have experimented with a few things in the past. I personally have a very good understanding about the use and misuse of power. When I see people misusing power, it affects me very strongly. But that's just from my personal experience. I don't have the authority or power to make people see things my way, to make them act in the way I'd act, or to stop them from doing anything wrong. I don't know if I'd even want to do that if I had the power to do so. I personally don't know what I'd do in a given situation involving "powers". However, I have a good idea of what I WOULDN'T do.

 

Wow man, that was so totally deep. I am a star wars fan myself. The thing about a lot of star wars literature is that things go quite deep on a philosophical level, but many people miss that and prefer the overt plot rather than the implications. But you get it. I heart you lol.

 

I just posted something adressing the same exact topic in another thread. Probably not so deep as yours but i try. We share the same viewpoint that just saying no doesn't exactly cut it.

 

thread

[Brian]

...

[Sloppy Zhang]

Sloppy Zhang I was reading 22. The Concentration States (Samatha Jhanas) And though of your old powers thread, may as well post the link here, rather than try and find the old one. D Ingram talks for a bit about powers about ½ way down. May be of interest if you haven seen it before, I quite enjoy how he writes.

 

Thanks for posting that!

 

You were on the money with Anakin too. Yoda didn’t/couldn’t help or understand him. But it turns out that Palpatine didn’t help Anakin either. So I guess Yoda’s response was “best” (although it seemed uncaring given we knew why Anakin was asking)

 

Sometimes the devil tempts with lies, and sometimes the devil tempts with truths. Palpatine was a very manipulative bastard. I think there were a lot of truths in what he told Anakin. Why need to lie? Anakin had all the requirements necessary to be a very powerful jedi or a sith. The deal closer, I think, was when he told (lied to) Anakin, that he had accidentally killed Padme (when she was really alive). Anakin didn't have anything to live for, fell into despair, and had no real target to direct his power towards. He had killed or helped to kill most of the Jedi, had already confronted his master, Obi-Wan, so he had nothing/no one to live for than Palpatine.

 

All this changed of course when he met his son, and witnessed his near murder, when (in my humble opinion) he returned to his roots- he's not a bad guy, he just wanted to help the people he cared about, but he had killed all those he cared about, oh wait, here's a son he didn't know was alive who's getting shocked to death by the emperor. Okay, time to kill the emperor!

 

 

I have sometimes wondered why some people might want certain powers to do things a certain way when it can already be done. Like having something burst into flames while it is in your hand, when we already have numerous ways to start a fire. Or seeing through walls, when we have legs to simply walk around the wall and look on the other side. Spending hours trying to move something with your mind when you have arms and hands that are already made for this.

 

Why learn to shoot a basketball from the three point line, when you can shoot it from the free throw line? From the baseline? Why even learn to shoot a basketball? What's the point? Why keep doing sprinting competitions when we have cars that can go faster? Who cares about the human limits Usain Bolt has pushed when we have jets that that can go thousands of times faster? Why invent the light bulb when we already had candles? Why invent the computer when we already had the typewriter?

 

This isn't a knock at you, it's just that I've heard the idea you are saying supported before by other people, and I am talking about the idea here:

 

Frankly, I think that idea is rather short sighted, and unnecessarily limiting.

 

Wow man, that was so totally deep. I am a star wars fan myself. The thing about a lot of star wars literature is that things go quite deep on a philosophical level, but many people miss that and prefer the overt plot rather than the implications. But you get it. I heart you lol.

 

I just posted something adressing the same exact topic in another thread. Probably not so deep as yours but i try. We share the same viewpoint that just saying no doesn't exactly cut it.

 

thread

 

I like that post of yours It was straight forward and direct, and says it like it is.

 

I think that's what needs to be done more. Just tell it like it is. Sure, some people GENUINELY don't care about power. Some people REALLY only want to help other people and do the most good.

 

But a lot of people (in my opinion) just hold on to and profess some moral code, and try to push it on anyone who isn't acting in accordance with that code, in order to hide (from) their own selfish desires.

Edited August 18, 2010 by Sloppy Zhang