Spiritual value of Tao for you.

[Everything]

Hey all, alot of questions in here, feel free to answer any of them or comment on any of the words here. Trying to understand the spiritual teaching of the Tao.

 

Lets say we can put all negative emotions in a spectrum between anger -- fear. Where in the middle there is neutrality. Every emotion is either more on the anger/sadness or more on the fear side of the spectrum. Bored is neutral, but little bit more angry emotion for example. Depression ofcourse is sadness, which is stored up anger. This comes from passiveness with anger, being agressive towards self or others with your anger, or perhaps a wrong belief / not living in the present. So without going to deeply into psychology or science here, I'd like to know your opinion about spirituality and the Tao.

 

How does it work for you in your emotions? Does the Tao give you durable happiness / love, whereby love is a mutual sharing of happiness? Does the Tao provide for you Not only confidence rahter then fear, but well-being rather then anger aswell? Does the Tao allow you to deal with negative emotions like, anger / fear, or does it illiminate these negative emotions instead and how? How does it allow you to be couragious with your fears, or assertive with your angers. How does it allow you to block out negative emotions by the wisdom of using your boundaries?

 

Would you call Tao a strong believe of yours, or just and idea that helps? It might be hard to identify the idea of your believe in words, but in emotional terms, how does believing in Tao feel like for you?

 

How has it changed your spiritual life? The part of your life that cannot be communicated trough words or ideas, but love and emotions instead. Have you ever noticed an old limiting believe, or negative believe beings changed during the practice of Tao, over time? Have you accomplished this by focusing on new positive believes of Tao or rather by challenging the old negative believes?

 

Thanks for reading, will read all and write again soon.

Edited August 15, 2010 by Everything

[fizix]

Perhaps my favorite interpreted teaching of the Tao is that life is ultimately just "One" awesome, ultimate video game! And the player can do whatever he wants, so why waste time being negative in any way, when the Light is always present! Has understanding of the Tao affected my life? It's saved my life. The true Tao is not a belief or an idea, it simply just IS. The problem with folk initially trying to come to understand the Tao is that they look for it in scholarly words and dualistic concepts, while the true Tao cannot be named, only experienced!

[Everything]

Perhaps my favorite interpreted teaching of the Tao is that life is ultimately just "One" awesome, ultimate video game! And the player can do whatever he wants, so why waste time being negative in any way, when the Light is always present! Has understanding of the Tao affected my life? It's saved my life. The true Tao is not a belief or an idea, it simply just IS. The problem with folk initially trying to come to understand the Tao is that they look for it in scholarly words and dualistic concepts, while the true Tao cannot be named, only experienced!

 

Hmmm, I don't understand the mindset behind that. I do understand that nothing in this universe is what its named. We have words for communication ofcourse, thus the wise ancient teach without words. But here on forums, one must try and replicate these teachings trough words, ofcourse. I try to talk of spirituality and emotion because emotion cannot be communicated in words, it is nameless, it is not logical or intellectual. It simply is... Even tho this nameless thing we call emotion can be named and talked about, it is only experienced when no longer desired to experience, rather desireless one can experience it.

 

I cannot be sure how the experience of Tao is for you, but you could try and communicate it like you just did, thats great. For it me it was basicly the same. I felt happy, and believed that everything was perfect.

 

Someone else might say "everything is perfect" but not believe it. And someone else might believe it and try to convince others that everything is perfect, he will surely be thought of as a fool. Thus the wise "don't speak." Because believes, although emotion connected to an idea, cannot be communicated, only experienced, because of the emotional aspect to it. It is hard to hold on to a positive believe such as everything is perfect, when you are bombarded with all sorts of setbacks, such as murder, hunger, etc. Thus there are practices to focus on your Tao, even in the midst of chaos. Thus will surely mean you have love 100% of the time to give away, even in the midst of chaos.

 

How does one go about practicing this tho? How did you come about feeling this way about the Tao? How did you come to the part where you finally experience the Tao durably without interuption?

[Marblehead]

Hi Everything,

 

First to emotions. Taoism has taught me that I should fully experience all emotions that ever enter my essence. This is an important of the 'life' experience. But it also taught me that after experiencing these emotions I should let them go. Letting them go allows us to continue living and to be empty so that we can experience new and wonderful emotions.

 

I am not too much of a spiritual person. However, Tao has shown me that I am just a very small part of the totality, that from the point of view of Tao I am no more or less important than any other part of Tao. This has allowed me to be more accepting and understanding of others.

 

Peace & Love!

[Everything]

Hi Everything,

 

First to emotions. Taoism has taught me that I should fully experience all emotions that ever enter my essence. This is an important of the 'life' experience. But it also taught me that after experiencing these emotions I should let them go. Letting them go allows us to continue living and to be empty so that we can experience new and wonderful emotions.

 

I am not too much of a spiritual person. However, Tao has shown me that I am just a very small part of the totality, that from the point of view of Tao I am no more or less important than any other part of Tao. This has allowed me to be more accepting and understanding of others.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Awesome, that sounds pretty true for me aswell. Only thing is, I don't understand fully what you mean with letting go of the emotions. I've never thought of it that way. Can you give an example perhaps? Or more specific. Thanks, n peace&love to you aswell

[Gaelicrock]

Man, the Tao is about getting back to nature; letting everything unimportant slide, letting the material become material, being at one with one's self.

 

We put so many ideas into our minds, so many locks and barriers inside ourselves and in our world. The Tao is the key to opening those locks, and the ram to breaking down those barriers.

 

It doesn't matter what you do. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. Also, don't let yourself live in any way that is a hindrance to you or that affects you negatively. There is no selfishness. If someone wants you to do something, and it is harmful to you, no amount of pain that your decision causes that person is worth harming yourself. That pain is in that person's mind. It is not of you and is not caused by you.

 

Those who wish you to act in such a way that is harmful to yourself are not in harmony, and thus are not one with the Tao. Loyalty and duty are not of the Tao. Loyalty, justice, expectaions arise when there is no harmony. These ideas are falsities.

 

Look deep within yourself. You will find the truth. It may take years, but what is that? You will also find how hilarious the idea of time really is.

 

I hope this helps you, and I hope you find the answers you seek.

 

Namaste

[Marblehead]

 

Only thing is, I don't understand fully what you mean with letting go of the emotions. I've never thought of it that way. Can you give an example perhaps? Or more specific. Thanks, n peace&love to you aswell

 

Yes, this is a difficult one to understand internally.

 

Emotions are good. They tell us a lot about ourself. They tell us what gives us pleasure and what gives us pain.

 

When these emotions arise, and they will regardless of how cultivated we are, we should feel them in their fullest. We should ask ourself why a particular event caused the emotion we felt. Doing this will tell us much about how we feel about things in life. If the emotions resulted from prejudgements of any kind then we know we still have work to do.

 

Eventually we will condition ourself (yes, that is the best word) to view each event in our life for what it truely is and not add anything to it or subtract anything from it.

 

But, once we have felt these emotions and experienced the life that existed it them we should let them go, whether they be negative or positive emotions. But, that is not to say that we shouldn't revisit these emotions in order to consider what effect they had on us and why. I even find it nice to revisit positive emotions and their causes just so I can live that pleasure once again.

 

We let them go though so that we can be fully aware in the next moment of our life so that we can fully experience that moment as well without it being altered by our past experiences.

 

I hope that helped to clarify what I said above.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Man, the Tao is about getting back to nature; ...

 

Namaste

 

Nice post! Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!

[Everything]

Man, the Tao is about getting back to nature; letting everything unimportant slide, letting the material become material, being at one with one's self.

 

We put so many ideas into our minds, so many locks and barriers inside ourselves and in our world. The Tao is the key to opening those locks, and the ram to breaking down those barriers.

 

It doesn't matter what you do. You don't have to do anything you don't want to. Also, don't let yourself live in any way that is a hindrance to you or that affects you negatively. There is no selfishness. If someone wants you to do something, and it is harmful to you, no amount of pain that your decision causes that person is worth harming yourself. That pain is in that person's mind. It is not of you and is not caused by you.

 

Those who wish you to act in such a way that is harmful to yourself are not in harmony, and thus are not one with the Tao. Loyalty and duty are not of the Tao. Loyalty, justice, expectaions arise when there is no harmony. These ideas are falsities.

 

Look deep within yourself. You will find the truth. It may take years, but what is that? You will also find how hilarious the idea of time really is.

 

I hope this helps you, and I hope you find the answers you seek.

 

Namaste

 

So basicly I become the entire universe by entering some kind of other dimension? A state of mind that allows me to feel like I'm the entire universe and see all as one? Entering the true self? I think to begin with people should ask "what am I?" And begin understanding that they are not what they see, hear, feel, smell, taste, but rather they are the witness to all of this. A witness that is able to choose what he perceives with a mind that expands out in the entire universe, seeing all as one. And when such a witness is ready to leave his body, he will be able to focus on other objects in the world of forms and boundaries, which makes for an immortal, whereby even death will not take away his memories, or so it seems.

 

Perhaps if you understand that you are in this world, but that the whole world is in your mind... The whole world is created by your mind, in the world of forms and boundaries. Without your mind the world would not be. There would be nothing. when you slow down your senses enough you can be a witness to this void, like Doaist. You understand that everything is the same as nothing. Only then can you start asking your self "What am I?" and find the answer. When we are in spirit, the spiritual value is infinite. Right? Is that more like Tao?

[SFJane]

So basicly I become the entire universe by entering some kind of other dimension? A state of mind that allows me to feel like I'm the entire universe and see all as one? Entering the true self? I think to begin with people should ask "what am I?" And begin understanding that they are not what they see, hear, feel, smell, taste, but rather they are the witness to all of this. A witness that is able to choose what he perceives with a mind that expands out in the entire universe, seeing all as one. And when such a witness is ready to leave his body, he will be able to focus on other objects in the world of forms and boundaries, which makes for an immortal, whereby even death will not take away his memories, or so it seems.

 

Perhaps if you understand that you are in this world, but that the whole world is in your mind... The whole world is created by your mind, in the world of forms and boundaries. Without your mind the world would not be. There would be nothing. when you slow down your senses enough you can be a witness to this void, like Doaist. You understand that everything is the same as nothing. Only then can you start asking your self "What am I?" and find the answer. When we are in spirit, the spiritual value is infinite. Right? Is that more like Tao?

 

You are good. My hat is off to you. Elegant troll sage is subtle and elegant. That's a compliment, not an accusation. You can do a lot of good here.

/respect

Edited August 16, 2010 by SFJane

[Everything]

You are good. My hat is off to you. Elegant troll is subtle and elegant. That's a compliment, not an accusation. You can do a lot of good here.

/respect

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgAkWxcPBE

 

check it out. There are no words to describe this troll, its epic. xD

 

 

Btw taoist don't say that everything around isn't there? MAterial stuff. They call it the void. Remember that from a taoist interview, an old chinese man said it, wearing a robe, talking about carrying the tao in the heart, not giving meaning to external stuff like robes.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Everything

[SFJane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NgAkWxcPBE

 

check it out. There are no words to describe this troll, its epic. xD

 

 

What is the droprate?

 

I troll everyone

even your mom

 

now I can't flame people on my lvl 1 alts anymore!

 

Omg. I almost peed myself.

 

Any guess as to his favorite class? I am guessing gnome mage or ud rogue, doesn't seem the tank or healz type, but you never know

 

Blizz always nerfs the best exploits when they get too many complaints!

 

Btw taoist don't say that everything around isn't there? MAterial stuff.

 

Nah. Not when stuff can fall on you and prove you wrong in an instant. I've always thought of Taoists as observers of what is, not pedants who tell people what the world should or shouldn't be like. As for robes? Wth is a robe going to do? What does a bowl prove? That you have good knees and can follow directions? Does the robe and bowl give you a set-piece bonus?

 

Did you know Da Mo trolled the emperor of China once and got lol banned for telling people they were doing it wrong? Epic troll.

Edited August 16, 2010 by SFJane

[Everything]

What is the droprate?

 

I troll everyone

even your mom

 

now I can't flame people on my lvl 1 alts anymore!

 

Omg. I almost peed myself.

 

Any guess as to his favorite class? I am guessing gnome mage or ud rogue, doesn't seem the tank or healz type, but you never know

 

Blizz always nerfs the best exploits when they get too many complaints!

 

 

 

Nah. Not when stuff can fall on you and prove you wrong in an instant. I've always thought of Taoists as observers of what is, not pedants who tell people what the world should or shouldn't be like. As for robes? Wth is a robe going to do? What does a bowl prove? That you have good knees and can follow directions? Does the robe and bowl give you a set-piece bonus?

 

Did you know Da Mo trolled the emperor of China once and got lol banned for telling people they were doing it wrong? Epic troll.

 

Haha, trolls go way back.

 

N btw, droprate is precentage of a drop. Low precentage gotta translate into more value, ofc. And for mankrik's wife, well you gotta have been a witness on WoW release barrens chat. Specificly Al'akir on EU. lol, haven't played wow for a long time! ^^

 

About Taoist as observers. Let me bring the dream world into all of this. Have you ever had a lucid dream, where you were suddenly realized you were the observer of all, and in a moment you got control over what you did and did not perceive. This is what the practices allow for you to do in the real world as well, but perhaps trough emotions? Hence the spiritual value instead of intellectual. "Tao cannot be named"

[SFJane]

Haha, trolls go way back.

 

N btw, droprate is precentage of a drop. Low precentage gotta translate into more value, ofc. And for mankrik's wife, well you gotta have been a witness on WoW release barrens chat. Specificly Al'akir on EU. lol, haven't played wow for a long time! ^^

 

About Taoist as observers. Let me bring the dream world into all of this. Have you ever had a lucid dream, where you were suddenly realized you were the observer of all, and in a moment you got control over what you did and did not perceive. This is what the practices allow for you to do in the real world as well, but perhaps trough emotions? Hence the spiritual value instead of intellectual. "Tao cannot be named"

 

Woops. Was quoting the russian guy presumably asking the reporter girl what the droprate on her pants was. Trust me, I know about droprates. Use to farm the Eye of Shadow on my warlock and epic mounts on my deathknight. I am on US servers so,.. didnt see that go down.

 

Dreamworld..yes. And yes. And I agree, totally. Morpheous, "Have you ever had a dream you thought was real?" Butterfly Effect inside you.

[Everything]

Woops. Was quoting the russian guy presumably asking the reporter girl what the droprate on her pants was. Trust me, I know about droprates. Use to farm the Eye of Shadow on my warlock and epic mounts on my deathknight. I am on US servers so,.. didnt see that go down.

 

Dreamworld..yes. And yes. And I agree, totally. Morpheous, "Have you ever had a dream you thought was real?" Butterfly Effect inside you.

 

Yeah the state of mind or experience is very similar to that of in the movie Butterfly Effect. It is an incredible feeling. Kinda naming it will remove its eternal state, thus when I am in such a state I go beyond the material of ideas and words and focus on my emotions instead.

 

And it is more then a vivid or real dream. It is a dream where you control everything that happens, because you are conscious in your dream and no longer identify with the physical body within that dream, because you think "it is all not here, it is void, it is just a dream." Same with Taoist. Some people have reported that they had a similar experience when awake aswell. It feels close to an immortal experience.

 

When I read alot about the tao, it is all so vague, but it all becomes clear when it is perceived as a context to this experience, state of mind, becoming one with Tao that just is unnamable. It is the ultimate inspiration. The ultimate being in spirit.

 

Don't get me wrong, I only experienced this state of mind once in my life. I wrote allot of stuff during that time so that I may recall the moment, but when I reread the words... They are all completely nonsense, just trying to describe a feeling that is, well, unnamable. So vague.

 

Perhaps you could say it is "lucid dreaming, with open eyes and active senses." Damn, gotta try to beat that description!

No other way I can put it.

 

edit: I also recall loosing the state of mind when I thought about how this feeling would probably never return, feeling desire for it to stay n it was gone for a short amount of time. Untill I became desireless again and focused on the state of mind again, allowing it. Thats freaky.

Edited August 16, 2010 by Everything

[SFJane]

Yeah the state of mind or experience is very similar to that of in the movie Butterfly Effect.

 

 

zomg you even picked up that I was talking about the movie, more-so than chaos theory. nice.

 

yeh. the butterfly effect was how I undid bipolar and ptsd. in Taoism there is a whisper of something called change and change is what? alchemy..a series of transformations of heaven and earth so..Taoism -as alchemy-to go in and change shit and do it right this time, now that you've been able to see which flappings got you where last time... if you cant visualize beyond what you think you know you are...imagine something different and doing that until it is you..meh..you suffer.. and do it all over again. ..and again

 

alchemy lets you tamper with the matrix without being visibly jacked in

 

 

i know what you mean about talking about it...I try...never, ever to talk about...well..you know...because I feel instantly like a moron..so..you know how they detect planets these days? gravity perturbations on the stars they orbit...we know its there by its effects on things..even though we cant see it.. to say anything else is profane really...to me...

[WallaMike]

Hey all, alot of questions in here, feel free to answer any of them or comment on any of the words here. Trying to understand the spiritual teaching of the Tao.

 

Lets say we can put all negative emotions in a spectrum between anger -- fear. Where in the middle there is neutrality. Every emotion is either more on the anger/sadness or more on the fear side of the spectrum. Bored is neutral, but little bit more angry emotion for example. Depression ofcourse is sadness, which is stored up anger. This comes from passiveness with anger, being agressive towards self or others with your anger, or perhaps a wrong belief / not living in the present. So without going to deeply into psychology or science here, I'd like to know your opinion about spirituality and the Tao.

 

How does it work for you in your emotions? Does the Tao give you durable happiness / love, whereby love is a mutual sharing of happiness? Does the Tao provide for you Not only confidence rahter then fear, but well-being rather then anger aswell? Does the Tao allow you to deal with negative emotions like, anger / fear, or does it illiminate these negative emotions instead and how? How does it allow you to be couragious with your fears, or assertive with your angers. How does it allow you to block out negative emotions by the wisdom of using your boundaries?

 

Would you call Tao a strong believe of yours, or just and idea that helps? It might be hard to identify the idea of your believe in words, but in emotional terms, how does believing in Tao feel like for you?

 

How has it changed your spiritual life? The part of your life that cannot be communicated trough words or ideas, but love and emotions instead. Have you ever noticed an old limiting believe, or negative believe beings changed during the practice of Tao, over time? Have you accomplished this by focusing on new positive believes of Tao or rather by challenging the old negative believes?

 

Thanks for reading, will read all and write again soon.

 

Hello Everything (and indirectly SFJane):

Doing Taioist practices for me has been mostly in the form of interior energy work. There is a lot of philosophy involved also, but it takes a certain amount of belief related to that and I'm way past that. Thus, while I like my philosophy to be consistent and complete, it if doesn't have a practical side, I'm out of here! I'm still doing Taoist work, so what does that say?

Taoist work has a lot of practical aspects for me and one of the most important was helping me to regulate my emotions better; helping me to understand that I am not at the mercy of my emotions so that I could enjoy them without being overwhelmed. It's still a challenge, but getting easier.

Basically I got stuck in my meditation, so turned to tai chi and qigong and ended up mostly with Taoist or Buddhist based teachers who did energy work. Once I got into it, it gave me direct proof that there was something to all this theory and Tao Te Ching and related literature. When I turn inside, there is this "stuff" that I can feel and experience and work with and Taoist tai chi and qigong gave me the tools to do so, but this took several months and years. But it was definitely worth it.

So, to answer some of your questions, it's not a question of faith and it's really helped me to grow and develop. Working in this way has given me more happiness and when the sadness(or anger)comes, I realize it is all part of the pattern and that too will pass and even faster using my energy tools.

It has also helped me in relationships, but perhaps not in the way you are asking. I'm not sure for me if love is a mutual sharing of happiness, but I could certainly see how a mutual sharing of happiness could create love. Love to me is more of an energetic phenomenon I experience, but is way bigger than myself, but I diverge. The way I've been helped in relationships has been to learn to know myself and to allow others to come or go in my life as it works out and being able to be ok with that. For some reason, I've had better and longer relationships when I don't try so hard. Perhaps there is some basis for not holding something too hard, but also not just letting them go too easily. There is a balance and Tao is all about balance. But sometimes to achieve balance, once has to go through a lot of imbalance, if that makes any sense. In other words, at times it's ok to be unbalanced, but realizing that it's not a permanent state and that it's ok and eventually balance will occur....followed by more imbalance, ad infinitum. Being able to sense and follow this pattern is part of working with the Tao, I think.

Part of my perspective is based upon the Buddhist saying of: "Enlightenment doesn't mean that you can't enjoy ice cream. It means you are happy when you have ice cream, but you are also happy when you don't have any." I think the same relates to relationships, at least how I am wired. The more I try to just be happy on my own, the lower maintenance I become and the more people seem to want to be around me, without me trying so hard. Go figure.

I recall in 12th grade, someone asked me what my goal in life was and I said: "To be happy." I recall their rather tart reply of: "Well, that's trite!" Little did either of us know how really hard it is to be truly happy. Working with Taoist tai chi and qigong has been very good for me and done more to bring me happiness than anything else I've done in a very long time. I can't wait until I get serious about it! (humor alert).

Yours,

WallaMike

[Everything]

Hello SF Jane:

Doing Taioist practices for me has been mostly in...

 

 

 

...long time. I can't wait until I get serious about it! (humor alert).

Yours,

WallaMike

 

Hey there, thanks for your comment.

 

I too have felt this way about love. We all have. Your kind of love is a completion of your own identity. A completion of yourself. The other person is your other half, and he/she makes you complete. This is not the way I roll! You would value such a person alot in the beginning, but later one when he/she doesn't live up to the task of being your other half, it doesn't work out in the long term, because it is not true love. True love is unconditionally given away happiness or a sharing of it.

[Everything]

[WallaMike]

Hey there, thanks for your comment.

 

I too have felt this way about love. We all have. Your kind of love is a completion of your own identity. A completion of yourself. The other person is your other half, and he/she makes you complete. This is not the way I roll! You would value such a person alot in the beginning, but later one when he/she doesn't live up to the task of being your other half, it doesn't work out in the long term, because it is not true love. True love is unconditionally given away happiness or a sharing of it.

 

 

Hello Everything:

I went back and edited that my note was to you, not SF Jane, but also included SF Jane based upon some of her other blogs related to this topic. I also appreciated that you'd did not ding me on that error. I owe you one!

WallaMike