Meditation as a cure for mental illness

[WallaMike]

SFJane-

 

Thanks for the awesome post, I miss the days I could spend in meditation, learning how to go inside and feel and understand. Something you posted made alot of sense to me. During meditation I've experienced times when the inner chatter is like "me" in the middle of a mass of people all talking about different crap, it is so loud! I like those quiet moments better, and hope to be able to regroup in the silence when I've had enough practice.

 

I'm still on the first breathing practice in BK Frantzis first water method book.

 

Awesome post, thanks again.

 

 

If you like BK's breathing practices, he also has an great CD on it. He progresses you from a regular breathing pattern, using a quiet gong for timing the breaths and decreasing down to about 4-5 breaths per minute. I listened to it one time on a car trip and then tried to see how long I could go before I lost count. I got up to over 2500 when I had to stop and take care of my bodily needs. I then got back in and restarted. Interestingly enough, I got stopped twice by police on the way back. I think I was sitting so quietly and not moving around as I drove that perhaps they thought I was inebriated or something. However, no tickets and no sobriety tests, so I'm still not sure what brought this one or if it were mere coincidence.

Good luck!

[WallaMike]

I see drug addiction as a mental illness, and yes, meditation can potentially be, in a way, a cure. Heroin addicts for example, must accept that they will be 'addicts' their entire life, for the second they no longer consider themselves addicts, they will be prone to a likely inevitable relapse... this ideology upsets many people, but the underlying reasons for it are usually only truly comprehended by actual addicts, there's nothing shameful about living under the mindset of being an addict, addiction is a disease that doesn't simply go away, in fact it's a progressive disease that only grows stronger over time... it is ego-based, self-obsessed disorder, meditation assists in one's spirit transcending the selfish ego in order to find Unity with the One, the Tao, drastically diminishing and eliminating an addict's desire to use. The basic texts and 12 steps of the NA and AA programs all stress and emphasize upon a consistent practice of meditation, be it traditional or unorthodox, as long as stillness is reached.

 

 

 

One of my theories about why meditation can potentially work for addicts is that I think that most addicts are just more acutely aware of their apparent "separation" from God or however a person might want to describe this feeling that "something is not quite right." This feeling of "separation" causes an inner pain or angst in most all of us and is thought by some to be the basis for our spiritual striving. I think an addict is more actively aware of this for whatever reason: genetic, social, environmental, etc, and so has this chronic gnawing feeling of pain or emptiness or depression or whatever and certain types of drugs or alcohol or whatever can transiently either smother that feeling or in some way help them to not feel so bad.

 

Enter the "bliss" of meditation. My theory on this is that if we got a PET scan of someone in blissful meditation, it would show that their pleasure centers were getting lots of stimulation. This is not to reduce spiritual or meditational bliss to merely a physical stimulation or meditational masturbation, as I am a Ken Wilber fan and so believe that the exterior and the interior are merely two sides of one coin. I just believe that there are physical correlates to interior experiences and vice versa, but both arise simultaneously; the chicken and the egg arise at the same time, as it were.

 

After too many years of futile meditation, qigong, tai chi, etc, you name it, I'm finally at the point where I can say that I have occasionally briefly touched the hem of bliss and it is real and it is healing. I could see that if I ever got good enough to be able to attain this level whenever I felt like it, it would significantly decrease any physically based craving I might have. Not that there is anything wrong with physical cravings and in fact sometimes I enjoy having them and satisfying them. I just don't like to be controlled by them. Thus, having an "alternative" and socially acceptable way to control these cravings such as meditation could go a long way toward helping with addictions, from my experience.

 

However, the devil is in the details as they say. Meditation comes in many styles, takes a lot of effort and time, can be expensive to learn since insurance doesn't pay for it, and the level I'm talking about requires a very high level teacher with a lot of psychological experience thrown in to be able to deal with the things that come up along the way. Please see SFJane's account of her experiences for a good example of that.

[sifusufi]

"Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our concious contact with a higher power as we understood um"

 

Can't cite this zxactly...

You get the picture...

 

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=h8rcwOHJVQs

 

[Sunya]

I don't really know much about the dissolving practice. How does it work?

 

Sounds like vipassana except instead of bare witnessing all sensations there is the intent to dissolve.. Is that right? Could you perhaps type up some instructions on how to do it? I'd get the book but am currently unemployed.

[SFJane]

No, I would not feel bad, and I am very interested in hearing your criticisms of the research....Yeah, PM me the article if you can find it. I'd like to be able to recommend it to people, or steer them clear of it. My initial reaction to the product was that it was very similar to many multi mineral supplements out there, and that their explanation of the "ratio" being the critical thing was pure b.s., because how did they stumble on the ratio of 36 different minerals, and besides, they cannot in any way control for the extraneous dietary mineral intake of anyone taking their supplement with it's precise ratio...

 

It was bigger than 2k words. It was big. It was a huge huge analysis, down to the mineral, in some cases. And I put it on my new blog.Truehope or Truehype? An analysis.

 

I don't really know much about the dissolving practice. How does it work?

 

Sounds like vipassana except instead of bare witnessing all sensations there is the intent to dissolve.. Is that right? Could you perhaps type up some instructions on how to do it? I'd get the book but am currently unemployed.

 

I can't. Because I don't have the time right now. There are similar elements to vipassana, no doubt about it. But using intent to dissolve is a chi/nei gung technique that is incorporated with the sitting and scanning. Maybe Pietro, WallaMike or one of the others familiar with it can help you. I intend to write a nice article on dissolving one of these days for use as an article on-site here.

Edited August 20, 2010 by SFJane

[windblown]

As a Bipolar person myself I completely applaud you SF Jane. I was given the same opportunity several years ago when I went to India and studied with an enlightened yogi...Sadhguru Jaggi Vasudev. I lived at the ashram for four months> I was taught kundalini yoga, pranyamas and shoonya meditation. The whole day was spent readying the mind body and spirit for dissolving or enlightenment. We did a death meditation in which one of the Indian womendissolved and the guru had to spend much time and energy and techniques to bring her back in her body...so blissful was her experience. Anyway I was on no meds while I was there and for 3 months afterward and never felt better. I had a private session with Jaggi and told him of the Bipolar and he prescribed for me 4 hours per day of yoga and meditation when I got home to the real world. Had I not had children I would have stayed on at the ashram as a bramichari, (a monk.) But I had to come home. Sadly to say I was not able to keep up the 4 hour regieme every day due to being a mother, wife, employee, home owner, daughter...all the things that life can call for. Soon I was back on meds as I became unstable.

 

I am happy to say that as I have been meditating again I am on the lowest effective dose of mood stabilizer. As to whether I can come off them again...I don't know. Right now I'm going to stay with them and increase my meditation and start up qigong again. It's very difficult to have self-discipline along with this disorder as it mainly effects right brained artistic types, (I am an artist, poet, massage therapist.) I tend to be spontaneous and rather impulsive so stiking with a 4 hour yoga routine was difficult for me. But kudos to you for sticking with it! I wish you all the luck and progress in the future!

[fizix]

Wallamike, very well said; I agree with that theory and it is unfortunate that meditation isn't more emphatically stressed as a means of addiction recovery in many inpatient, outpatient treatment programs... even in many AA/NA circles it is often just an 'afterthought' or note aside. In any case, love is the greatest root of any cure for any addiction; the real, genuine energy of love, to replace the illusory "love" (fiending) of the substance. Meditation helps loads with this.

Edited August 20, 2010 by fizix

[beoman]

[Birch]

Hi SFJane!

 

"If I was doing time in a pig pen with nothing to interest me I might get irritable too. It makes sense that ETBS is not really a syndrome per se but a pig social and behavioral problem resulting from confinement that clears up for awhile as soon you divert the pigs with something new."

 

This is a really good thing to consider when it comes to ANY supposed "mental" illness. Which aspects of it are merely reactions/ attempts to deal with an obviously upsetting situation? Or a paradoxical one, or a dissonant one?

 

It's kind of sad that the guy in the story was so easily able to compare his kids with pigs. I mean he accepted a "pig cure" for his little kids!? Who's the pig here?

 

In too many cases, IMO it's the situation that is sick and the people inside don't see it. Reasons why they don't see it may be too painful or risky to evoke.

 

Another good reason to ditch "ego" and appeal to "higher" self. Of course IME these are one and the same but we need the trick "technically" for us to be able to (re)fool ourselves out of the situation we got ourselves into - whether or not we fooled ourselves the first time or we were fooled (which in many cases we were but didn't find out until too late) It still works

I don't mind the "god" issue if it allows me to bypass myself

 

 

See the guy who figured he was becoming a wuss on the other thread? As long as the "wussy meditator" remains in a culture that doesn't value what he is (or is becoming, whatever) then it could be a hard journey all round. That's why learning to kick a$$ whether literally or figuratively once you understand what's going on is potentially a good skillset to add on to your "higher" understanding.

"Healing" could be another one - since it's a necessary role and carries all kinds of power with it. Of course, one should be able to become multi-brained and kick a$$ and heal and paint and dance and write and philosophize at any time in one's life.

 

In my opinion, obviously.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Sure, we call them the itty bitty shitty committee. The 12 step programs is tried and proven, millions around the world have become clean and sober by following the 12 steps.

 

Here are the 12 steps of AA, which is basically interchangeable for NA (drugs).

" 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable. (anti-AA people are either not true alcoholics, or are to stuck in their ego-based thought to want to believe they are powerless over alcohol, but if that is so, then why seek help in the first place?)

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity. (Again, people who have problems with this want to believe that there is no higher power than themselves, they are still stuck in the illusion of the ego, until one believes in a higher power of any form or formless, such as God, the Tao, even Yoda, etc, they will have a very hard time...)

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him. (Somehow anti-AA people interpret this as cult-like and misinterpret the steps, "will and our lives over to the care of God as we (the individual) (PERSONALLY) understood him)" NOT handing the will and life over to the people of AA...)

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves. (This step is essential in being able to learn of one's character defects in order to work on them, it is also stress relieving)

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs."

Really, please, what exactly is wrong with any of these steps? Sure, if you're an atheist, you're going to have a hard time getting through them, but if you're an atheist and an alcoholic or drug addict....best of luck in recovery"

 

I really pity anyone who is on some anti-AA bandwagon, sure feel free to try alternative routes of recovery but to bash and attempt to degrade a tried and proven program...that just speaks for itself, these people may be temporarily sober but they are still living in their character defects by speaking out against a program that helps people. There are so many misinterpretations about the Anonymous Fellowship programs, it is ridiculous; I urge anyone to attend a meeting if one is so inclined to know the truth. Meetings consist of people sharing about their experiences of strength, hope, willingness and recovery.... sharing about their struggles, where they are at in the program.... it is beyond me that people slander the program because of personal differences and immaturity.

 

I really pity the AA "True Believers" too. They must buy into the "reality" that they have an incurable "disease", and that they will always be an alcoholic/addict. (I guess that means enlightenment is out?) There is a lot wrong with AA, and it simply doesn't fit or work for some people, and it has nothing to do with "their capacity to be honest with themselves".

 

How nice it works for you, it's too bad you're unable to understand why the success rate of all people who come to AA is only about 5%. I have heard of people who have been in AA for 25 years and very active in the AA community relapsing, and relapsing hard. What happened, did their belief in Yoda, their 'whatever you want it to be Higher Power' desert them?? There are also untold millions who have quit their addictions all by themselves,without AA and without becoming "powerless".

 

How is it that addiction is a "disease", yet it is the only disease for which the treatment is spiritual surrender to a Higher Power. Why doesn't that work for other diseases like diabetes or cancer?

 

Most of the sexist Big Book is corn pone straight out of the thirties that would stick in the craw of any intelligent person. For people who's lives have truly bottomed out, it can be a lifesaver. But to say it's the only way is pure bullshit propaganda.

Edited August 21, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[sifusufi]

I really pity the AA "True Believers" too. They must buy into the "reality" that they have an incurable "disease", and that they will always be an alcoholic/addict. (I guess that means enlightenment is out?) There is a lot wrong with AA, and it simply doesn't fit or work for some people, and it has nothing to do with "their capacity to be honest with themselves".

 

How nice it works for you, it's too bad you're unable to understand why the success rate of all people who come to AA is only about 5%. I have heard of people who have been in AA for 25 years and very active in the AA community relapsing, and relapsing hard. What happened, did their belief in Yoda, their 'whatever you want it to be Higher Power' desert them?? There are also untold millions who have quit their addictions all by themselves,without AA and without becoming "powerless".

 

How is it that addiction is a "disease", yet it is the only disease for which the treatment is spiritual surrender to a Higher Power. Why doesn't that work for other diseases like diabetes or cancer?

 

Most of the sexist Big Book is corn pone straight out of the thirties that would stick in the craw of any intelligent person. For people who's lives have truly bottomed out, it can be a lifesaver. But to say it's the only way is pure bullshit propaganda.

 

Right

 

Sexist men!

 

Dosen't stop the Govt from referrals in droves.

 

If that one cat who did not go for his referred TX didn't stick that needle back in his arm there would be one less E.R. visit, one less Neurosurgeon, infectious disease consult, 4 picc line replacements, the dude is confused so he needs a sitter as not to pull more picc

lines out, I.V. Antibiotics round the clock, oh and of course a nice PCA morphine! ad nauseum... Repeat visit ad nauseum et. al

 

Since there is no insurance so you pay. Now multiply this by thousands.

This is in the U.S. alone. I have seen this N a t i o n w i d e

 

Hey folks have RIGHTS right?

 

Tune in next time when we will discuss if the A.C.O.A character traits are real in detail as well as denial!!!

 

" They must buy into the "reality" that they have an incurable "disease"

 

What is the reality of an A.C.O.A?

 

Peace

Edited October 29, 2010 by sifusufi

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Right

 

Sexist men!

 

Dosen't stop the Govt from referrals in droves.

 

If that one cat who did not go for his referred TX didn't stick that needle back in his arm there would be one less E.R. visit, one less Neurosurgeon, infectious disease consult, 4 picc line replacements, the dude is confused so he needs a sitter as not to pull more picc

lines out, I.V. Antibiotics round the clock, oh and of course a nice PCA morphine! ad nauseum... Repeat visit ad nauseum et. al

 

Since there is no insurance so you pay. Now multiply this by thousands.

This is in the U.S. alone. I have seen this N a t i o n w i d e

 

Hey folks have RIGHTS right?

 

Tune in next time when we will discuss if the A.C.O.A character traits are real in detail as well as denial!!!

 

" They must buy into the "reality" that they have an incurable "disease"

 

What is the reality of an A.C.O.A?

 

Peace,

Robert

 

huh?

[sifusufi]

huh?

 

You do pay taxes right?

[fizix]

Songs, you're clearly neither an alcoholic or addict, so thanks for sharing from your viewpoint of a complete absence of experience. Why would enlightenment have to "be out" just by never forgetting you're vulnerable to relapse? That is the point of the recurring title "addict", to know that if you pick up again you are going to fall back into the same hole you crawled out of...it has nothing to do with self-imposing limits or degradation; ego-based thought people like yourself cannot understand this, and like I said, you clearly have no real experience with the program or real addiction. You say I'm unable to understand that the success rate of AA is 5%? That ignorant statement alone speaks volumes about your experience with the program (or complete lack of) as anyone who knows anything about how AA is run knows that there is no recorded statistics or percentages, hence "alcoholics/narcotics ANONYMOUS" NOTHING is recorded, nice bullshit statistic... you really must enjoy speaking out of your @$$ like a complete ##### just to appear superior in your own mind, don't you? Another self-righteous egomaniac. And for the record, you don't need to be "glad AA worked for me" because I'm not an alcoholic, so shove your sarcasm you know where.

 

"What happened, did their belief in Yoda, their 'whatever you want it to be Higher Power' desert them?? There are also untold millions who have quit their addictions all by themselves,without AA and without becoming "powerless".

 

Actually, no... they deserted their higher power, their higher power did not deserve them.... no shit people relapse, are these your best argument skills? I never stated that AA is the only way to stay sober, nor do the AA texts, nor do the AA dinosaurs who are not zealous about it...you'll find your zealots everywhere.

 

How is it that addiction is a "disease", yet it is the only disease for which the treatment is spiritual surrender to a Higher Power. Why doesn't that work for other diseases like diabetes or cancer?

 

Because addiction is a SPIRITUAL disease, not a purely biological manifestation such as diabetes or cancer....are you really that dense? Not surprised, most of the posers with over 1k posts on these forums tend to be, pithy egomaniacs.... sorry to bust your forum glory!

Edited August 22, 2010 by fizix

[johndoe2012]

I don't really know much about the dissolving practice. How does it work?

 

Sounds like vipassana except instead of bare witnessing all sensations there is the intent to dissolve.. Is that right? Could you perhaps type up some instructions on how to do it? I'd get the book but am currently unemployed.

 

Post from "Korpo" on astraldynamics forums:

 

Just a short heads up because I found something that helped myself.

 

I've been practising parts of the Dissolving Process rather long, but I lacked more and more the feeling of progress, of a "breakthrough". So I re-examined all the parts of the process to see what I've been missing.

 

The process is described rather (and deceptively) simple:

 

1) Find one of the conditions that let you identify a blockage - sensations of strength, tension, contraction or anything that does not feel quite right.

2) Wait/Observe/Keep in touch with this sensation.

3) Follow the energy inside./Follow the sensation of the energy./Feel the energy that keeps creating it.

 

This way you go deeper and deeper into the blockage, layer by layer, till it resolves.

 

The problem I identified for myself was that I had no idea to do the third - follow it inside. I've heard this advice hundreds of times, but when I reviewed what I was doing, I found I had no idea if I was doing it or not or doing it right or how it is done. Inside where? Inside how? I had tried many things but I was unsure of whether they worked and did what they should.

 

At the same time I felt that my ability to release had gotten rather strong - something I could release went quickly and almost instantly. But then I would be stuck. Painful sensations would arise and the level of tension intensify without any further resolution.

 

So I tried something simple, following a sudden inspiration, and simply asked inwardly "What is creating this?" and I felt my focus shift/drift/open and change, whatever you may call it. For a while I simply went with that, but that was not enough. It did not help resolve the blockage. Just asking to go inside gives you the "right direction", but not the resolution.

 

By trial and error I realised there are two components to this: Staying with the obvious energy until it releases and then going in deeper. So my new practice is like this:

 

1) Find any of the conditions that signify a blockage.

2) Stay with it until it changes/releases.

3) Ask "What is creating/causing this?"

 

This changed the whole thing for me. It has brought stronger, more lasting releases. It brought real relief.

 

When I felt a strong, uneasy, anxious sensation I just felt it for a short while, and then kept repeating the cycle - asking, feeling, asking feeling. Within a few turns of this I get much better, felt much less "caged in", that uneasy, cramped quality had strongly decreased.

 

When I did this on some severe back tension problems, I felt such a strong release, several big muscles untensed and I felt so full of energy, so awake, I found myself surprised that I could not sleep afterward, I felt like I had drank a big bottle of caffeinated soda before bed.

 

Asking for direction has been helpful in another respect. Instead of tightening up more and more, I felt like I drifted from layer to layer, like my focus opened and "locked back on". It helped me stay relaxed longer, stay with the energy longer, because it felt like I had to do nothing, almost as if it was done for me. Posing that question inward allowed me to go from blockage layer to blockage without having to know or decide where to go or how to do it. Some intelligence within already knows. I just need to ease my grip on the wheel somewhat. I don't need to know. It's more like I need to trust.

 

So, I hope somebody else finds this useful too.

 

Oliver�

[Brian]

...

[The Observer]

In response to the original post, it was a very great and inspirational story; it gives me heart to continue my daily meditation and attempts to be a better human.

[dwai]

 

I healed my inner world with a technique I learned called 'inner dissolving.' Which is Bruce Frantzis' meditation method: The Water Course Way of Lao Tze. In my experience, it is a path to real healing. It's a road less traveled. And it can take you every place you ever wanted to go inside.

 

You are an inspiration!