word

[neimad]

the other week i was looking at a friends copy of one of the Emoto water crystal book.

 

i was so impressed to see the impact negative words had on the water crystals. whether these crystals really occur like this or not (i have heard evidence against them, but this is common to any discovery) it is very obvious that words have a powerful impact on us.

 

they are the final result in the 'Thought -> Emotion -> Action' (from Edmund Szelekely's work) cycle, they are the action.

 

looking at the water crystals caused me to decide i will no longer use swear words, like the 'f' word or the word for excrement or any other derogatory word aimed at any individual or anything as it is obvious this will have an impact on the vibrations of the water both within our body and the person who we aim such words at. instead i have been seeking replacement words. e.g. for the 'f' word i now say "love"..... so for f'n h#ll i'll say instead "love in heaven" ..... instead of the s##t i'll say "wheat" and so forth....

 

to take it even further....

 

over this weekend i went to an alternative living festival. i have been in a great place lately but this all disintegrated at the festival as i sought desperately to foster interactions with other individuals and ended up feeling depressed, miserable and lonely.

refusing to succumb to these negative feelings i instead chose to pursue the problem i had in interacting successfully with other individuals, especially in large groups.

 

on introspection i have been discovering that due to all my studies into food and all the negative things that impact our lives (e.g. banking, chemtrails, politics, food, pharmaceuticals, poisoned water supply, and on and on and on) i have become very critical with my language and addressing stuff. always seeming to focus on the negative like "oh that is no good, i wouldn't eat that" and so on, always informing people of how bad certain stuff is.

i realise that speaking like this is probably very confronting and uncomfortable for people to be around.

 

this being the case i have decided in addition to no longer using swear words i will no longer use negative language about anything and instead speak positivitely and focus only on the good things. as for fostering awareness about the bad things, i can do this more constructively by looking at the good things and by leading as an example. this requires disciplined awareness of everything i say, and so far has been going great and i can already feel the differences in the way people respond to me.

i constructed an affirmation around this (along the lines of "i speak without judgment, criticism, etc and without looking for reward or to impress, etc and speaking only with love, positivity, to inspire, etc) that i say every morning before my meditation.

 

i allow myself to have whatever thoughts occur, it is just what i express verbally that i am concerned with at this stage. the next step is to increase awareness of emotions or feelings towards people and things and become more conscious of how i feel about stuff and convert that to more positive and finally move to the same process with thoughts...... however i think just the very act of being aware of my actions in language will spill over very strongly to these other areas.

 

just some thoughts....

[neimad]

oh yeah...

 

to add to this i also wanted to address one other facet of words, and that is the self-defeating use of words.

 

the most common example of this is "i can't" saying this about anything immediately sets up the conditions to fail.

 

the next big one is "i'll try" saying this provides a massive loophole to get out of whatever it is you are trying to do. it's like you want to do it but aren't committed so you give yourself an escape route in that you can say at the end "at least i tried".

 

there are plenty of examples of this kind of defeating language we use to escape from things we think may be too hard or require too much effort or we just don't really want to do.

 

as part of my whole awareness of the action of language, this kind of language is also a focal point for me. i am eliminating all such language from my vocubalary. if i am not ready to commit so doing something, i just wont say anything about it, rather than using defeatist language to allow myself to fail.

[BobD]

as part of my whole awareness of the action of language, this kind of language is also a focal point for me. i am eliminating all such language from my vocubalary. if i am not ready to commit so doing something, i just wont say anything about it, rather than using defeatist language to allow myself to fail.

Interesting posts neimad. I occasionally adopt similar approaches to my use of language (just managed to avoid saying that I occasionally try to adopt.... ) but normally fall short of being able to stick to it for any length of time. Let us know how you get on with this, and if you notice any differences in your day to day life as a result.

 

I've seen Emoto's book a few times in shops recently (having read about him on line after watching What The Bleep, and reading The Field), Regardless of the criticisms levelled at his work, would you recomment this book?

[neimad]

the book, i think, definately has value. i didn't read any of it, just looked at the pretty pictures..... i think what the bleep pretty much summarised everything behind it. the only other details to be filled out would be sampling methods, etc.

 

i think it's best function would be as a coffee table book where guests can pick it up and leaf through it...... so if you got spare $ to throw around... why not?

 

i'll keep all you beautiful people updated about my language progress. already from not swearing i have begun noticing just how much the people around me swear...... pretty incredible, although as part of this whole project i won't be saying anything about it to them, unless i can broach it in a positive way without it being me finding fault with their own actions.

i'm actually finding it easier every day to monitor my language and speak the way i want to.

[Ian]

the other week i was looking at a friends copy of one of the Emoto water crystal book.

 

i was so impressed to see the impact negative words had on the water crystals. whether these crystals really occur like this or not (i have heard evidence against them, but this is common to any discovery) it is very obvious that words have a powerful impact on us.

 

they are the final result in the 'Thought -> Emotion -> Action' (from Edmund Szelekely's work) cycle, they are the action.

 

looking at the water crystals caused me to decide i will no longer use swear words, like the 'f' word or the word for excrement or any other derogatory word aimed at any individual or anything as it is obvious this will have an impact on the vibrations of the water both within our body and the person who we aim such words at. instead i have been seeking replacement words. e.g. for the 'f' word i now say "love"..... so for f'n h#ll i'll say instead "love in heaven" ..... instead of the s##t i'll say "wheat" and so forth....

 

to take it even further....

 

over this weekend i went to an alternative living festival. i have been in a great place lately but this all disintegrated at the festival as i sought desperately to foster interactions with other individuals and ended up feeling depressed, miserable and lonely.

refusing to succumb to these negative feelings i instead chose to pursue the problem i had in interacting successfully with other individuals, especially in large groups.

 

on introspection i have been discovering that due to all my studies into food and all the negative things that impact our lives (e.g. banking, chemtrails, politics, food, pharmaceuticals, poisoned water supply, and on and on and on) i have become very critical with my language and addressing stuff. always seeming to focus on the negative like "oh that is no good, i wouldn't eat that" and so on, always informing people of how bad certain stuff is.

i realise that speaking like this is probably very confronting and uncomfortable for people to be around.

 

this being the case i have decided in addition to no longer using swear words i will no longer use negative language about anything and instead speak positivitely and focus only on the good things. as for fostering awareness about the bad things, i can do this more constructively by looking at the good things and by leading as an example. this requires disciplined awareness of everything i say, and so far has been going great and i can already feel the differences in the way people respond to me.

i constructed an affirmation around this (along the lines of "i speak without judgment, criticism, etc and without looking for reward or to impress, etc and speaking only with love, positivity, to inspire, etc) that i say every morning before my meditation.

 

i allow myself to have whatever thoughts occur, it is just what i express verbally that i am concerned with at this stage. the next step is to increase awareness of emotions or feelings towards people and things and become more conscious of how i feel about stuff and convert that to more positive and finally move to the same process with thoughts...... however i think just the very act of being aware of my actions in language will spill over very strongly to these other areas.

 

just some thoughts....

 

I think that a couple of brilliant realisations and will make a huge difference to your life. Nice one.

 

Infinite love does manifest in some seriously twisted forms, doesn't it?

[Todd]

oh yeah...

 

to add to this i also wanted to address one other facet of words, and that is the self-defeating use of words.

 

the most common example of this is "i can't" saying this about anything immediately sets up the conditions to fail.

 

the next big one is "i'll try" saying this provides a massive loophole to get out of whatever it is you are trying to do. it's like you want to do it but aren't committed so you give yourself an escape route in that you can say at the end "at least i tried".

 

there are plenty of examples of this kind of defeating language we use to escape from things we think may be too hard or require too much effort or we just don't really want to do.

 

 

Neimad,

 

On most levels I agree with you. I am even engaged in a similar experiement, though more with thought than with words. I've only been engaged in it for about a week, attempting to think good thoughts about people and things whenever I can. I agree that it does change the way people react to me. It also makes me aware of how much of my thought about individuals and manifestations has been negative.

 

I feel a certain pressure in forcing myself to think along certain lines, and that this force must ultimately be abandoned. It may be useful to highlight and partially correct a negative tendancy in my personality (I actually think of it as more of an awareness exercise that will potentially lead to largely dropping verbal value judgements, and to opening to the good in everything, which I may be blocking out right now).

 

Part of the reason I don't want to consciously force good thoughts long-term is from experience as a pool player. First off, if I am playing somebody who isn't necessarily the best player, but who has the basic skills to pull off a shot when he is feeling loose, I expect him to make, or come very close to making, a high-pressure shot if he prefaces that shot with a statement such as "I never make this", or "Watch me miss". If I am feeling particularly mercenary, I might try to counter the effect of that statement by saying some thing like, "You always make shots like this". Why does this work? Its hard to say for certain. I just know that it happens often enough that many people who regularly play recognize this effect and enact variations of this dialog in games.

 

Internally, I can describe the process as a lifting of external and internal pressures and a clarification of intent. It can help to untie the mental knots that players and situations contribute to tying.

 

Of course, positive statements can be helpful as well, especially in reinforcing an already fairly pure intention.

 

Things quickly become more complicated at higher levels of play, but my inclination is to say that verbal formulations have less and less importance the better a player is. I can say, "I will miss this" and retain the intent to make it. Or I can say, "I will make this" and retain the intent to make it. I can say, "I'll try to make this" and know that I will make it. The key to forming a solid intent is to form it in a space that is untouched by words. Sometimes words can be used as a gateway to this space, but the less one needs to rely on words, the more solid the space will be. Words to give access, at least for me, quickly morph into words that prevent access. I feel the need to become more intimate with the space, forming connections with no go between.

 

Thats a description of the microcosm of pool. Perhaps you will find something of relevance in there.

 

Todd

[neimad]

great comments, guys.

 

freeform... so true about your pen example.

trying pressuposes failure

exactly!

 

 

todd i get what you are saying about pool.

my impression of the guy being able to make the shot after saying "i usually miss this" is the sense of relaxation that will come with taking the pressure off himself. by allowing himself the oppurtunity to miss he can relax and through that carelessness can he focus.

like for me i find i play pool better after a couple (just a couple) of beers.... why? because i no longer care about the outcome of the game! there is no stress attached to it.

 

so how does this fit into our language discussion?

i guess some room for approaching a desired goal with a relaxed attitude is certainly necessary.

can we approach that without the negative language?

yeah i'm pretty sure we can..... the self-defeatist attitude may help in something like pool, however i would argue that in most cases it is actually used to remove the stress of having to make the shot. on our own for our own personal goals it may be slightly different..... thoughts anyone?

 

anyways also about the thoughts rather than the words, todd.

the reason i chose to be aware of first my verbal dialogue than thoughts is that jumping from nothing straight up to thoughts is a huge step, one i don't think i would be able to keep for any prolonged period of time. being aware of my language is much easier, however as i don't have to be focused on it 100% of the time, only the times when i am speaking. i am also free to think as i will. it's like a training procedure where i train my awareness of negativity in small steps.

 

i am using a CST/RMAX THP (training hierarchy pyramid) model for my approach to this. the goal is to pretty much eliminate negative or self-defeating attitudes from my life.... in this respect GP (general preparedness) involves the awareness of words, SP (specific preparedness) involves the awareness of feelings, SS (speicific skills) involves the awareness now of thoughts and finally MT (mental toughness) involves shedding the necessity to be held by my thoughts at all.

 

desired outcomes: increased spontaneity. increased ability to have deep and successful social interactions with any and every individual i meet, regardless of how short it may be. even if it is entirely non-verbal. more awareness of myself as an individual (and perhaps as universal too).

 

 

cool how i can use the THP outside of a physical purpose, huh?

it's a really fantastic model for achieving any goal.

[Todd]

neimad,

 

I like how you have laid out your plan. It sounds like you have very clear intent and a recognition of the place from which you need to start.

 

About pool: it was an obsession for about 8 years for me, so making a division between "something like pool" and personal goals seems arbitrary. I feel that it is like anything else, in that the more one looks into it, the more one will see. It has certain strengths and weaknesses as a practice though. The main strengths are that it is an endeavor in which it is difficult to blame anything but oneself for mistakes, and mistakes are immediately apparent. I can't count the number of times that I felt I'd figured it all out, or that I was in a very good emotional space and would play very well, only to quickly realize that something wasn't right, because I just missed that ball. Sometimes I end up digging pretty deep to find the source of my weakness, realizing all sorts of things about my reactions to social situations, conflicting motivations, ect... The game ends up being played with my entire life, if that makes any sense. I see the connections between last night's reading, or drinking or whatever, and my experience of the game today. I gets to the level that I am adjusting wordless intentions and non-intentions toward everything I see, and while playing, more and more of what I see is the table. Moving the balls is moving myself, and obvious. It is a sort of ecstatically evolving question and answer.

 

The downsides are constant ego reinforcement, a push toward advesarial and dishonest relationships, and not being good for my back.

 

I remember a discussion with the best player from Mexico about what makes a great player. He spoke about building relationships with spectators, so that one has a circle of support wherever one is, and about not engaging in gamesmanship, because it ends up reducing one's skill; sullies one's intention toward the game. He encouraged me to get out of the game though. "There's no life here. If knew how to do anything else, I would." I don't agree that there is no life in the game, but since starting to meditate, I don't miss it.

 

Well, thats probably more than you wanted to know about pool, but I thought I'd defend my use of it as a potential source of wisdom.

 

Todd

 

BTW In no way can I agree that trying presupposes failure. To really try is to ask a pure question. Saying that there is no try is only a play on words in an attempt to psyche oneself into giving something an honest go. No one that I know of can ever be 100% sure of any result, and the most successful people I know (or at least the ones who inspire me the most) are also the most comfortable with that fact, and act with relatively pure intent regardless.

[neimad]

todd,

 

i dig your talking about the pool game.... it's a good example of the entire microcosm/macrocosm. the whole universe and our existance within it can be experienced in something as trivial seeming as a game of pool. i have another friend who had the same kind of relationship with snooker.

it's a little less talked about but no different than the same kind of attachment and seeking people get from the pursuit of martial arts, but really it's the same with any passion.

 

yeah my intent is clear, and by not putting too much pressure on my thoughts but only on my actions (in this case mostly my dialogue) i have room to move within and to slowly get used to having less negativity and more positivity in my life.

ultimately i know that a state of neither is desirable, but for the sake of things i cannot talk about that state as anything but positive even though i know thats not what it is.

pure bliss is not happiness and not sadness...... but in the sense of how we need to interpret things in this 3rd dimensional plane.... it feels good! hehe.

 

***

about trying. i agree with you about pure intent, i agree with you about not being 100% sure of the result.... my interest is not in the action of trying, but the use of it as a word.

 

i know for myself and any other person i have discussed with that when you say something like "i'm trying to give up cigarrettes" it means that the attempt is really only half-hearted and the person giving the statement has pretty much given themselves a clear escape route so that even if the effort towards said goal was miniscule, at least they tried.

have a go for yourself.....

"i'm going to try not to speak for 5 minutes"

"i'm not going to speak for 5 minutes"

which one feels more powerful? with which statement do you feel more likely to succeed?

but hey i'm not set in stone with this idea, this is an experiment so anyone reading this please feel free to try the above ^^^ and report back with the differences you might feel.

 

for me i feel like if i say "i'm going to try..." it's not so serious, i can fail and it wont be a big deal. if i say "i'm not going to..." it feels a lot more serious, less room for failure, but also a little pressurised.

is there a way we could go somewhere in the middle? neither giving too much of a loophole to get out of it, but at the same time without a heavy sense of pressure?

[Mandrake]

Emotos water crystal book, now, hasn't that book been slaughtered allready?

 

How anyone can believe in that stuff is beyond me - people beleive in crap because they want to.

Where is the scientific backing of this - it has not been backed up by other laboratory studies by other scientists. The only thing we have to go for is fancy claims from one guy.

 

Why not listen to all the other quackers as well?

 

Respect

Mandrake

[neimad]

Emotos water crystal book, now, hasn't that book been slaughtered allready?

 

How anyone can believe in that stuff is beyond me - people beleive in crap because they want to.

Where is the scientific backing of this - it has not been backed up by other laboratory studies by other scientists. The only thing we have to go for is fancy claims from one guy.

 

Why not listen to all the other quackers as well?

 

Respect

Mandrake

 

that's nice....

 

what do you believe in then? what western science has told you..... have you done any of the studies yourself? have you validated any of the laws of the universe yourself?

 

you are just believing in other people's words just as much as anyone else.

regardless of who does the scientific study IF IT'S NOT YOU THEN IT'S JUST YOUR BELIEF.

if you 'know' you know, and if you don't.... then you just have to take someone elses word for it.

science is just an exploration, it's not truth and will never be truth... it is in constant flux and will never have a complete answer for the universe.

i studied science for years at uni, so i'm not just speaking out of thin air.

 

regardless of emoto's work, i feel quite strongly the impact of words. it's not such a far-fetched thing to say that words have power.....

 

you are entitled to your belief as much as everyone else, it's not for you to say what is truth and what isn't.... and as for the emoto water crystals... why don't you replicate the experiment yourself to invalidate it and hold it up as truth for all.

some people will believe you and some wont, but at least you can be sure of yourself when you make any claim.

[thelerner]

Saying Emoto's work has quacks in it isn't saying we worship science. Or diss any honest investigation into anything. Words do have great power. So does body language and a host of other very subtle cues on us humans.

 

Its pretty easy to emulate his rice experiment, put cooked rice into three covered bowls, put a smiley face one one and be nice to it, a frown on another and curse it, do nothing to a third. I've meant to do it myself, but haven't gotten around to it. Googling around I seem to remember other people couldn't duplicate it, though the original book claims otherwise.

 

 

 

Michael

[Yoda]

Great sprout experiment!! I'm glad we have a researcher on staff.

[neimad]

Saying Emoto's work has quacks in it isn't saying we worship science. Or diss any honest investigation into anything.

 

michael,

i'm not saying you or anyone else worships science i was merely putting an answer to this comment

 

Where is the scientific backing of this - it has not been backed up by other laboratory studies by other scientists. The only thing we have to go for is fancy claims from one guy.

 

obviously to mandrake, science is the most important thing with regards to this..... my question is, if science is so important why then are you on a taoist forum?

last time i checked science hadn't validated internal alchemy or any of the other weird things we discuss here either.

 

and my comments about science were in general, not specifically directed.

 

smiles anyway.

[Todd]

Neimad,

 

Snooker is a great game, from the little I have played of it. I think the comparison to martial arts is valid, though it is bit less dangerous to compete with full intent on regular basis in the cue sports... either more or less focus, depending on whether that danger deters one from competeing.

 

About trying: I agree that people often use the phrase "I'll try to..." when their intent is weak. Taking a moment before uttering such a phrase to reframe one's intent is a great idea. I just wanted to make sure that you weren't trying to use the word formula of "I will..." in a magical way and lose track of what really mattered in action. As long as you recognize that what makes changing the way you phrase things effective is the adjustment to your intent that you make before uttering the phrase, and that if you start to rely on the phrase, the effect will likely fade, its all good. I think you already recognized that, so I feel a bit foolish for butting in.

 

Thanks for listening though.

 

Todd

 

As far the whole force, no force question... I wish I knew an easy answer. The only thing that seems to help is awareness, developed however you like. Any suggestions?

[neimad]

As far the whole force, no force question... I wish I knew an easy answer. The only thing that seems to help is awareness, developed however you like. Any suggestions?

 

i'm sorry todd. i'm not sure what you are reffering to here....?

[Todd]

for me i feel like if i say "i'm going to try..." it's not so serious, i can fail and it wont be a big deal. if i say "i'm not going to..." it feels a lot more serious, less room for failure, but also a little pressurised.

is there a way we could go somewhere in the middle? neither giving too much of a loophole to get out of it, but at the same time without a heavy sense of pressure?

 

I connect what you said above about finding a happy balance between too little and too much pressure with ideas of force vs no-force and effort vs. no-effort. Which is better? If I exert no effort then how do I correct my apparent failings. If i exert too much effort I tense up and am not able to express much of anything worthwhile. So what to do?

 

To me, this is one those perennial questions, and since I keep asking it, I obviously don't have a good answer. Daoists tend to come down on the no-force side of things. Though how to explain alchemy?

 

In my experience of pool, before becoming involved with cultivation in any conscious way, I realized that the best stroke was like nothing.... Though I could play great pool whilst exerting lots of effort, the best was always like nothing, at least in terms of tension in my body, and attachment to results. There was definitely something going on while I was playing, but there weren't any good words to attach to it.

 

There's a Wang Xiang-Zhai quote that goes something like, "The less force, the more intense the exercise." I like that idea, but I don't know how to explain what makes an exercise without force intense. Where does this intensity come from? Is it the force of everything moving through one, when one drops all this egotistical forcing? I'm pretty sure thats the standard response, though I am sure there are much more subtle ways of phrasing it.

 

Assuming I accept the standard response as true, how do I drop all of this egotistical forcing? First, I need to know that it is there. The more intimately I know it the better. Second, I need to drop it. If it could all be done at once, that'd be great. But there seem to be layers upon layers.... so thats why I said awareness is the only way I know to resolve the force, no force question. Its hard to force awareness though. I've tried a fair number of ways, though I definitely like meditation. It has been the best so far.

 

It may be that force, no force, is not even the right question and that it will seem irrelevant at some point.

[Todd]

Freeform,

 

We are talking about different levels of the force/no-force issue.

 

Just to be clear, I made a living playing pool for about three years, and spent eight years more or less devoted to the game. I went through many ways of acheiving a flow state, including a sense of playfulness (which naturally tends to increase the higher the stakes are for me, though it is mostly expressed internally and in my level of play) and using phrases, and routines to trigger good states.

 

In my experience, formal approaches to increasing performance work best in the short term, mostly due to an increase in focus and a temporary dropping of old patterns. Real improvement mostly comes from two things: practice/time, and awareness of patterns in the self. These patterns can occur on many different levels, from the body to one's relationship with the universe, and all levels inform one another. Awareness has little to do with momentary realization or intellectual categorization (pretty much any player worth their salt can tell you why they missed their last shot, but can they prevent it from happening again?). To be truly aware of something is to be able to drop it. The whole thing happens prior to words.

 

My question has mainly to do with how we drop things that we are not yet aware of? The answer is obvious. Become aware of it. How do we become aware of what we are not truly aware of? There are a lot of ways that we can come up with: have more experiences, try new things, think of things in a new way, relax.... Do any of these things help? I think the answer is yes and no, and perhaps it is better to not talk about it at all. If a person can maintain the question, that is the best they can do.

 

Or perhaps it is good to talk with someone who also maintains the question?

 

Todd

[neimad]

i was looking this morning at a little printout i had put on my wall a while ago (i put all kinds of reminders up on my walls) that talks about steps to ascended consciousness.

 

i was musing on how far i have come since putting it up.

 

the very first step is self understanding.

 

this, i think, ties into what you are saying todd.

becoming aware of ourselves, regardless of how we like or dislike the truth, is the only way to drop our own limitations.

i have been finding the best way to do this for myself is by becoming analytical of my behaviour patterns.

why do i behave in this way in this situation? what am i trying to get out of it? what do i want? and so on...

 

i think the understanding of myself has jumped immensley since realising that this is an important step in our self-progression.

 

the next step is to accept, and i feel like i have definately moved into this state. i accept that this is the way i am, and anything i am unsatisfied with i am changing..... it's actually pretty easy to change oneself, holding the pattern of change is where the difficulty lies.

 

we are all actors anyway. this whole "this is me" thing going on is all an act. who we think we are, who we show to others and even to ourselves is all acting. ALL OF IT IS AN ACT!

circumstance in combination with ourselves chose the role we are currently playing, but there is no reason we can't act a different role. but this role is so ingrained/conditioned that vigiliance is required to make permanent change.