Have any of you heard off: Darkzen.com?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Have any of you heard of: http://www.darkzen.com.

[xabir2005]

Yes.

 

Dark Zen does not have Zen lineage so is generally not considered 'orthodox Buddhism'.

 

Zenmar is coming from the I AM stage of enlightenment in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

 

Funny thing: Dark Zen once invited Thusness to join (or teach, if I remember correctly?) Dark Zen, long ago, which he rejected.

Edited August 17, 2010 by xabir2005

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Yes.

 

Dark Zen does not have Zen lineage so is generally not considered 'orthodox Buddhism'.

 

Zenmar is coming from the I AM stage of enlightenment in Thusness/PasserBy's Seven Stages of Enlightenment

 

Funny thing: Dark Zen once invited Thusness to join (or teach, if I remember correctly?) Dark Zen, long ago, which he rejected.

 

 

Ahh!

That makes sense!

I started reading I AM, so it's basically beginning stages?

It seems like he throws esoterics in there as well.

[voidisyinyang]

Have any of you heard of: http://www.darkzen.com.

 

I did some digging on that site and got to this:

 

http://newbuddhist.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1466

 

So this buddhist site is dissing the dark zen site -- but at least gives a name -- AE Hollingsworth.

 

Personally I thought the Dark Zen site looked good --

 

O.K. here's a thread devoted to exposing the Dark Zen people:

 

http://newbuddhist.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-1146.html

 

Dark Zen is more or less Vedantic Hinduism, trying to disguise itself as Buddhism and with a good measure of racism and White Power rhetoric thrown in for good measure.

 

Here's AE Hollingsworth on Amazon.com:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Selfless-Persons-Imagery-Theravada-Buddhism/product-reviews/052139726X/ref=cm_cr_dp_synop?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending#R3GHW5WXOIBLXR

 

Non-Self and Self, November 3, 2001

By A. E. Hollingsworth - See all my reviews

(REAL NAME)

Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)

This review is from: Selfless Persons: Imagery and Thought in Theravada Buddhism (Paperback)

Steven Collins, like so many others of his ilk, finds the fundamental Buddhist doctrine of Self difficult to understand, and makes it his stock and trade to reinterpret Buddhist texts, to provide a doctrine acceptable to his prejudices which betray a secular attitude. It never dawns on him that there are many positive statements in the Buddhist canon with regard to Self. What could be more clear than this passage from the canon:

 

"Therefore, O monks, the learned noble disciple understands the five aggregates which are the basis of clinging to existence, as not being originated from the Self nor being part of the Self. He now understands thus, does not attach himself to anything in the world. He doesn't not cling to existence is not disturbed." -- Catusparisat Sutra

 

This is a distinction hard to gloss over even if you are a professor from Bristol University. It is abundantly clear that the Buddha exhorts us not to cling to the five aggregates which are the basis of suffering; which have no connection with the Self.

 

Even more positive, the final words of the Buddha strongly declare the Self to be a refuge.

 

"Therefore, Ananda, stay as those who have the Self (attaa) as island, as those who have the Self as refuge, as those who have no other refuge; as those who have Dhamma as island, as those who have Dhamma as refuge, as those who have no other refuge." - Mahaparinibbana Sutta

 

The distinguish Pali scholar and translator, I.B. Horner writes, in the same vein:

 

"The Self (attâ) as both divine and human was no more repudiated by early Sâkya than were either the Âtman as Brahman, or the âtman as the self of man by the Upanishads." -- I.B. Horner

 

And finally the great Japanese scholar, Haijime Nakamura, writes:

 

"Thus, in early Buddhism, they taught avoidance of a wrong comprehension of non-âtman [no-self] as a step to the real âtman [self]. Of things not to be identified with the self, the misunderstanding of body as âtman is especially strong opposed. Foolish people comprehend their body as their possession. Buddhist of early days called this mis-comprehension "the notion on account of the attachment to the existence of one's body" (sakkâyadi.t.thi) and taught the abandonment of it."

 

I am sorry that I have had to write such a condemnatory review of this book. I would have liked to write a positive review with something good to say. However, in this case, a protest is necessitated to an appallingly confused and uncreative work. If the author sees this review, no doubt he will find it offensive. But the author suffers from a brutish arrogance that will not allow him to see the true teachings of the Buddha in which the Buddha wanted us to stop clinging to the five aggregates as they were not the Self--a Self which is intrinsically free and naturally liberated.

Edited August 17, 2010 by drewhempel

[xabir2005]

Ahh!

That makes sense!

I started reading I AM, so it's basically beginning stages?

It seems like he throws esoterics in there as well.

Yes.. It is an important insight, yet it is far from the whole story.

 

If we look at Tozan's five ranks (zen map of the stages of enlightenment), it is only the first rank: Relative within the Absolute.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

What about other material he has on the site?

For instance, an interview with Zenmar?

Anyone heard of him?

Also some of the book recommendations seem valid to me.

Any of you agree?

[xabir2005]

Zenmar's understanding of dharma is skewed to his own understanding, experience and realization, so he will not be able to present the whole picture and understanding of Buddhism. His teachings are more of Hinduism rather than Buddhism.

 

As for his book recommendations: http://www.darkzen.com/bookstore/bookstore.html

 

I think they are all good, except that I will take out '*The Authentic Dhammapada of the Buddha*' from the list because they have biased and inaccurate translations. Books I personally wouldn't consider:

 

*The Authentic Dhammapada of the Buddha* - just check comments at amazon.com for more info, comments, and the low ratings.

 

Also, 'Divine Revelation in Pali Buddhism' has some bad reviews on amazon.

 

Incidentally, 'The Authorized Dark Zen Meditation Manual of Buddhism' also have some bad reviews and poor ratings on Amazon.

 

My suggestion: go for those time tested techniques and teachings. Go for a true authentic Zen lineage and teacher if you are genuinely interested in Zen.

 

Bodhidharma, Huang Po, Hui Hua, Lin Chi, Hui Neng (Sixth Zen Patriarch), all these ancient zen masters' works I have read and can recommend. Also not mentioned by him: Bankei, Chi Nul, also quite good. I also like Master Hsu Yun, a modern day Chinese Ch'an master, as his teachings are relevant to my practice of self-inquiry.

 

Zen Master Dogen's stuff are very good and his insights are very deep and Thusness likes it a lot because it speaks very much of his own experience, though I haven't read much into it.

 

Modern Zen Masters like Steve Hagen, Thich Nhat Hanh, Ven. Jinmyo Renge osho, also good sources of teachings with exceedingly deep insights. Toni Packer is also great (she was an ex successor of Phillip Kaplaeu Zen Roshi before she left the tradition to become a non-traditionalist 'teacher').

Edited August 18, 2010 by xabir2005

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Thank you for that great recommendation...