The Fourth Way

[Astral_Anima]

http://www.ask.com/wiki/Fourth_Way

 

I actually think I saw drew talking about this guy (diff Gurdjieff?), but has anyone ever heard of this teaching known as "The Forth Way"?

 

It has alot of interesting beliefs like that we don't have a "soul" that we must "create" one. I like what they say about "Fake" teachers I also like their emphasis on cultivating body AND mind rather than making one more important than the other. It's "teachings" are interesting too. What do you guys think of this? Does anyone follow it?

 

-Astral

[Gerard]

...It has alot of interesting beliefs like that we don't have a "soul" that we must "create" one...

 

Gurdjieff drew all his teachings from esoteric sources based on the Sufi Way. About the soul thing: pure nonsense, what sentient beings do is work on strengthening the spirit to the point it becomes an entity separate from body and mind, in the end you trascend illusion and karma; you are free at last. But the whole process takes aeons to achieve. It is very slow and painful, hence life is suffering due to attachment and impermanence.

[orb]

Gurdjieff drew all his teachings from esoteric sources based on the Sufi Way. About the soul thing: pure nonsense, what sentient beings do is work on strengthening the spirit to the point it becomes an entity separate from body and mind, in the end you trascend illusion and karma; you are free at last. But the whole process takes aeons to achieve. It is very slow and painful, hence life is suffering due to attachment and impermanence.

 

 

This is an extremely limited description and even misleading. The fourth way was designed to be faster then any other way and it has been proven to be of such a quality through accomplished followers. The biggest problem is that nobody was able to attain Gurdjieff's level, but nobody has made similar amount and quality of efforts. However there are still great 4th way teachers around that can bring you to a higher spiritual level then any other way.

There is an interesting case of a tibetan lama that became and is currently a respected 4th way teacher.

As for the statement that Gurdjieff drew all his teachings from the Sufi Way that is only partially correct.

Gurdjieff studied the authentic esoteric systems. One of them was christianity as practiced by genuine chritians (very different then the traditional christian church - for example The Essenes brotherhood). And he refered to his system as Esoteric Christianity. Another fact is that he spent about 10 years in Tibet - way before the chinese invasion and learned a lot of things from there.

There are other key sources that he explorer but the taobums might be interested that he practiced also 2 forms of martial arts - one was a japonese ju-jitsu method and another one was a chinese form that I haven't heard of anywhere else...

 

One interesting starting principle about fourth way is to learn how to tell the truth - and I am not talking about some esoteric miraculous truth but the truth about yourself. If you honestly ask yourself what exactly you know and you are - you are almost guaranteed to realise to you are nobody and should keep your mouth shut because you don't know anything....

[3bob]

"The 4th Way"...it has some fine spin offs, and some very sicko cult spin offs.

 

Imo Drew co-opted/copied much of Mr.O's work (a key student of Mr.G's) and talks here like that work is his own?!

[voidisyinyang]

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/259-How-Qigong-or-Taoist-Yoga-Explains-Gurdjieff.html

 

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/283-Gurdjieff-and-the-Triode-Amplifier.html

 

Those are my two articles on Gurdjieff online. Enjoy.

[Dreamingawake]

So if that's the fourth way, what are the first, second and third ways?

[voidisyinyang]

So if that's the fourth way, what are the first, second and third ways?

 

Fakir, monk and yogi are the other three ways. The 4th way combines all three and then attempts to transcend them -- my argument is that Gurdjieff's alchemical harmonics is directly based on Taoist yoga alchemy derived via Mahayana Buddhism.

[Astral_Anima]

So if that's the fourth way, what are the first, second and third ways?

 

lol it's clearly stated in the link I provided. Check it out it has a whole bunch of info on this subject

[Dreamingawake]

Oops! Didn't even notice the link

Thanks, I'll have a look.

[3bob]

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/259-How-Qigong-or-Taoist-Yoga-Explains-Gurdjieff.html

 

http://www.mind-energy.net/archives/283-Gurdjieff-and-the-Triode-Amplifier.html

 

Those are my two articles on Gurdjieff online. Enjoy.

 

Nothing new there, and you are still trying to sound as if you discovered something that Mr O. hadn't already fleshed out in the early 1900's as MR. G's student. (and also later when Mr. O compiled all his notes related to same)

[voidisyinyang]

Nothing new there, and you are still trying to sound as if you discovered something that Mr O. hadn't already fleshed out in the early 1900's as MR. G's student. (and also later when Mr. O compiled all his notes related to same)

 

Oh I agree "novelty" is a novel idea indeed! haha.

 

As for Ouspensky -- I made sure to tear out his lengthy distractions from my copy of "In Search of the Miraculous" -- otherwise the book is quotes of Gurdieff. Why ruin a Gurdieff book with the writing of Ouspensky? Ouspensky was misled as Gurdjieff readily admitted. It's true Ouspensky did finish "In Search of Miraculous" for publication much later but also Gurdjieff stated that "In Search of the Miraculous" was the best clear presentation of Gurdjieff's alchemy.

 

The problem with Westerners on Gurdjieff is they easily get sidetracked into focusing on the followers of Gurdjieff -- for example Ouspensky. I point out this problem in my article as well. I could care less about Ouspensky or Bennett or any of the other followers of Gurdjieff -- except in their ability to relate and pass on information about Gurdjieff.

 

So Gurdjieff's magnum opus, as Bennett details, was so badly edited by the Western idiots that Gurdjieff got suicidal. Gurdjieff wrote a book, no one could understand it, so they all wanted to change it, and so Gurdjieff basically disowned it. Yet the Westerners form these "literary" study groups analyzing this huge book that was censored and wrongly edited, etc. -- looking for some secret meaning, just as if it's a Bible Study group. haha. Then if you criticize this huge book mangled by Western editors the Western followers of Gurdjieff get all into a hissy-fit.

 

Sure some Gurdjieff groups practice the sacred dances which are a form of tai-chi combined with the Whirling Dervish trance dances. Gurdjieff himself focused on teaching mind yoga -- "self-remembering" -- along with physical training through the dances and lots of exercise with pure food, etc. But Gurdjieff never trained someone to be his replacement -- relying on his energy transmissions. In fact Gurdjieff said he was more like a Number 4 person than a Number 5 (based on his own system, again modeled from Mahayana Buddhism's eight levels of consciousness) -- Gurdjieff admitted that the real teachers were in the monasteries and meditation centers he trained in.

 

Unfortunately in terms of the music harmonics focus of Gurdjieff the West does misunderstand Gurdjieff simply because Gurdjieff was trying to integrate with the West -- so he used the ratios 5:4 and 9:8. The Westerners wrongly interpreted this music harmonic focus of Gurdjieff as an early Christian harmonics which relied on a "divide and average" philosophy when in fact Gurdjieff's alchemy was based on the "complementary opposites" just as Taoist alchemy.

 

So it isn't anything new but it can still easily be misunderstood.

[ralis]

Oh I agree "novelty" is a novel idea indeed! haha.

 

As for Ouspensky -- I made sure to tear out his lengthy distractions from my copy of "In Search of the Miraculous" -- otherwise the book is quotes of Gurdieff. Why ruin a Gurdieff book with the writing of Ouspensky? Ouspensky was misled as Gurdjieff readily admitted. It's true Ouspensky did finish "In Search of Miraculous" for publication much later but also Gurdjieff stated that "In Search of the Miraculous" was the best clear presentation of Gurdjieff's alchemy.

 

The problem with Westerners on Gurdjieff is they easily get sidetracked into focusing on the followers of Gurdjieff -- for example Ouspensky. I point out this problem in my article as well. I could care less about Ouspensky or Bennett or any of the other followers of Gurdjieff -- except in their ability to relate and pass on information about Gurdjieff.

 

So Gurdjieff's magnum opus, as Bennett details, was so badly edited by the Western idiots that Gurdjieff got suicidal. Gurdjieff wrote a book, no one could understand it, so they all wanted to change it, and so Gurdjieff basically disowned it. Yet the Westerners form these "literary" study groups analyzing this huge book that was censored and wrongly edited, etc. -- looking for some secret meaning, just as if it's a Bible Study group. haha. Then if you criticize this huge book mangled by Western editors the Western followers of Gurdjieff get all into a hissy-fit.

 

Sure some Gurdjieff groups practice the sacred dances which are a form of tai-chi combined with the Whirling Dervish trance dances. Gurdjieff himself focused on teaching mind yoga -- "self-remembering" -- along with physical training through the dances and lots of exercise with pure food, etc. But Gurdjieff never trained someone to be his replacement -- relying on his energy transmissions. In fact Gurdjieff said he was more like a Number 4 person than a Number 5 (based on his own system, again modeled from Mahayana Buddhism's eight levels of consciousness) -- Gurdjieff admitted that the real teachers were in the monasteries and meditation centers he trained in.

 

Unfortunately in terms of the music harmonics focus of Gurdjieff the West does misunderstand Gurdjieff simply because Gurdjieff was trying to integrate with the West -- so he used the ratios 5:4 and 9:8. The Westerners wrongly interpreted this music harmonic focus of Gurdjieff as an early Christian harmonics which relied on a "divide and average" philosophy when in fact Gurdjieff's alchemy was based on the "complementary opposites" just as Taoist alchemy.

 

So it isn't anything new but it can still easily be misunderstood.

 

 

Is "All and Everything" worth reading?

 

 

ralis

[voidisyinyang]

Is "All and Everything" worth reading?

 

 

ralis

 

Yeah -- definitely -- also "Meetings with Remarkable Men" is excellent.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Yeah -- definitely -- also "Meetings with Remarkable Men" is excellent.

 

 

Come on, you haven't really read it!

The truth, my good man, the truth!

 

Also, the types I believe refer to the enneagram, which are nine, and are not related to Mahayana Buddhism's eight levels of consciousness to my understanding.

Edited August 19, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[voidisyinyang]

Come on, you haven't really read it!

The truth, my good man, the truth!

 

Oh I was referring to the series "All and Everything"

 

Meetings with Remarkable Men (All and Everything) is the 2nd book in that series. There's a third book which is not part of that series which I confused with the last book of the series.

 

Yeah I haven't read the last book in the All and Everything series -- again for the reasons I stated above. Gurdjieff himself disowned the book as it was published. Sure Gurdjieff had his own version that he would have recited for his students but again, that's not the same as having some idiot editor insisting on changing the writing of something the editor doesn't understand! Typical editors. I'm against editors as a job.

 

Yeah "All and Everything" is not the book title -- it's the series title.

 

This is the book I was referring to instead of "All and Everything" the book series:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Real-Only-Then-Compass/dp/0140195858/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_2

Edited August 19, 2010 by drewhempel

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

You've read Beelzebub's Tales? You are a better man than I. I think it's meaningless unless read over a period of time along with a group and teacher that can uncover the very esoteric hidden meanings. A single person can't "get it", unless they are very advanced in the Fourth Way. Were you involved in a Gurdjieff group?

[ralis]

You've read Beelzebub's Tales? You are a better man than I. I think it's meaningless unless read over a period of time along with a group and teacher that can uncover the very esoteric hidden meanings. A single person can't "get it", unless they are very advanced in the Fourth Way. Were you involved in a Gurdjieff group?

 

 

I started reading Beelzebub's Tales and I stopped.

 

 

ralis

Edited August 19, 2010 by ralis

[voidisyinyang]

I started reading Beelzebub's tales and I stopped.

 

 

ralis

 

This author explicitly states this book excerpt is for free copy -- and the book presents an amazing hidden trap door by Gurdjieff. The author states that only the original version of Beelzebub is accurate while both "Meetings with Remarkable Men" and "Life is Real" were revised by Gurdjieff's students. Gurdjieff planted an "addendum" which was the same but in two different books, thereby proving in advance if any revisions by his students would occur (which this book demonstrates it did to great extent):

 

http://www.gurdjieffsburieddog.com/uploads/1ST_3__shortened_PDF.pdf

 

Here's Gurdjieff's view on Ouspensky's "In Search of the Miraculous"

 

http://www.darkecho.com/JohnShirley/lindh.html

Edited August 19, 2010 by drewhempel