Surely I'm not enlightened..

[Maddie]

One experience I have not shared too often for obvious reasons ..... Back when I was in the Army my buddy and me on our free time would slam an entire bottle of Robituson DM and then proceed to astrally travel together. I only did this a couple of times, and it was impossible for me to do this with out a large does of Robituson. I know we were both truely out of body because we could see and communicate with eachother and then once we were back in body we would both confirm what we said to eachother and saw, and once my buddy kicked the door open while out of body (needless to say it was rather unusual). My buddy said the Dexramenthophine in the Robituson is what indused the out of body state, but I have no idea. But it did significantly change my outlook on things for sure.

[Marblehead]

But it did significantly change my outlook on things for sure.

 

Well, I can imagine. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Lucky7Strikes]

I have searched for what it means to be enlightened around tons of other forums, and have tried to find if anyone else has had an experience similar to mine, but so far I haven't found anyone yet. I have only recently started studying Taoism, but based on an experience I recently had, I have to ask whether or not I have attained enlightenment. I don't know whether or not other members are against the use of marijuana, but my experience has something to do with it, so don't read on if it will somehow offend you: The last city I lived in was not a place I really liked, and I didn't meet many people, but the couple of friends I did have were very fun to be around. We liked to sit around on the weekends and casually smoke weed, but while they seemed to just laugh a lot and watch movies, I was having a completely different effect. I was experiencing these sudden realizations about my existence and life and nature and they were coming so fast that I couldn't explain them in any way. I would try to tell my friends but they all just kind of laughed at me and told me I was high. Obviously I was, and obviously the drug was contributing to the way I was thinking, but it's not like I was having these mindless, irrational thoughts. They were about how connected every single thing is, and about how everyone is everyone, yet no one is no one; how a serious situations aren't serious until they actually happen to you; about how insignificant, meaningless, and small we are, even though most of us never look beyond us, the human race, or question what goes on. How I am a tiny space on a never ending timeline, and how there is no true good or evil, because who's to say what's what? And that was the best way I could explain it, so when my friends didn't understand or take me seriously, I was sad; not because they weren't taking me seriously, but because they were being guided like sheep without even knowing. These thoughts ate at me until one day while sitting in class, I had what I would describe as an epiphany. It was like everything in the world became so obvious and clear out of nowhere. It was like someone had taken off some sort of goggles I had been wearing and I could see everything for how it really was. I began to see how sad it was that people were so obsessed with their clothing brands, how they looked, how others looked, how popular or successful they were, and it was at that moment that all the people in my life that had previously upset me by putting me down and making fun of me, no longer affected me. It was like, no matter what, I couldn't be saddened or angered. At that moment, I felt a wave of happiness go through me, and I was almost brought to tears by how clear everything had become. After that day, I quit trying to answer all the questions in class, stopped engaging in meaningless arguments, and began to accept all points of view from all people. (I still didn't even explain all of the revelations I experienced here, but I can't find a way to describe them) Now, fast forward three or four months, and I've started to study Taoism and read the Tao Te Ching, and everything that I felt and was realizing earlier was put into words in this book. But here is the true point of this whole post: How could I, without any idea of the Tao, have reached enlightenment? Especially while people go there whole lives trying to attain it. It just doesn't seem to make sense. Thank you, if you were able to read through the lengthy post. I also apologize for my typing, I've been up for a while now and am a bit tired.

I think your insights are great. You should keep asking yourself what "you" are. What a thing is. What all these words mean beyond their symbols. Like what is a revelation? What do you mean you have reached enlightenment? Didn't you say above that everyone is everyone and no one is no one (what does that mean?)? What is perception? What is the nature of experience? Of consciousness?

 

And from my experience the TTC is not a good source to check your insights due to its incredible flexibility.

 

But why do you think it is sad that people are obsessing over clothing brands? Or how they look? Didn't you say there was no good or bad and that you didn't feel saddened anymore?

 

By they way, people progress on this enlightenment business all at completely different speeds. Yes, you can become enlightened tomorrow, or 1000 years, or a million years. The 6th patriarch of Zen was enlightened simply by listening to the Diamond Sutra and working in the kitchen, and couldn't read or write, surpassing all those other monks sitting and meditating a long time in the meditation hall! So I don't think you should ever think "oh my god! Its only been x amount of time? How can I be enlightened?"

Edited August 20, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Lucky7Strikes]

I would encourage you to take up the practice of alcoholism.

 

I don't get all the negative replies. The post was not really about marijuana.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Lucky7Strikes

[Sunya]

I'd say you had a good insight of the impersonal aspect of your true nature. You realized why try to seek fancy clothes or achievements when we are all part of this spontaneously perfect is-ness. Right? Very nice It's certainly not something to laugh at or downplay. Next step would be to analyze who is aware of this impersonal and perfect state of being. Good article for you to read if you want.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Sunya

[Aetherous]

The last three replies are good!

[Encephalon]

 

I don't get all the negative replies. The post was not really about marijuana.

 

Oh lighten up, for chrissakes. Did you never have self-doubt when you first set foot on the Path?

[Lucky7Strikes]

Oh lighten up, for chrissakes. Did you never have self-doubt when you first set foot on the Path?

I don't know, your post wasn't exactly a "lighten up" kind of post. But I could have misunderstood it for sure.

[It's a trap]

I would encourage you to take up the practice of alcoholism.

 

Do you actually suggest that I take up alcoholism?

[It's a trap]

There are some so called "natural" cleaners that are not safe. Just because things occur naturally doesnt mean usuing something in high concentrations no matter what way you choose makes anything safe. It is a broad statement but then again marketing seems to really like to misuse the term natural to mean anything occuring naturally. Under this concept large amounts of cannibis smoked is natural, or large quantities of cyanide from appleseeds extracted are also natural.

 

But you're talking about something that kills you. I'm talking about a pretty harmless plant. The same goes with anything in nature. Lemmings throw themselves off cliffs; obviously, no one should do this, but at the same time Taoism teaches us to be in tune with nature. So how could anyone know what part of nature is right and what part is wrong?

[Encephalon]

Do you actually suggest that I take up alcoholism?

 

Of course not. I was merely making light of the fact that the initial growing pains of the spiritual life can often seem as harrowing as an alcoholic's burden. Sorry for the confusion. It's an older person's joke.

[Birch]

"Initial growing pains of the spiritual life can often seem as harrowing"

 

-You got that right

[Mattimo]

It's A Trap, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with natural psychedelic substances. Many here are just voicing there concerns about the potentially unstable nature of their effects on the human psyche. However, I can certainly understand the allure because of the way they radically transform your consciousness - albeit temporarily. This is your journey and at this juncture ingesting psychedelic substances might be something you decide to do. I certainly learned a lot under the influence; mostly about my own toxicity. Moreover, I got taken for a ride and realized regular ingestion of substances was not a good idea for me. That being said, my ingestion of psychedelic substances was absolutely neccessary for my own realization and personal development and maybe they are for you too.

 

Just be safe

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Well said.

 

Showing of powers as evidence of enlightenment is kind of like saying "And now for a demonstration of my healing abilities, I will break this board."

 

 

How truly do I agree!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

It's a trap, while although you may find it extremely difficult to believe, I have indeed experienced something VERY similar. I am not trying to take away from the profundity of your experience, but what you describe is commonly uncommon. What I mean by that is common for people who have been initiated on the path, so to speak; and uncommon for the still common human, grossly immersed in the world at large. I was quite young when I experienced similar revelations, much like you I would imagine. How old are you by the way, 16-18? I urge you to be extremely cautious and let me say unequivocally that marijuana IS dangerous - even despite your discoveries. You see, one thought leads to the next thought which leads to the next thought with such ease and speed that you can arrive at a conclusion that is completely ungrounded and quite possibly insane or irrational. Moreover, the reality is that there would be no convincing you otherwise because what you experience would seem so profound and it is indeed profound in a manner of speaking. However, how can you be certain you are remaining grounded? Don't get me wrong, what you mentioned above is very lucid, sane, important and transformational. However, pursuing enlightenment through THINKING, especially in altered states, can lead to insanity. Let me ask you this, what IS enlightenment? You have asked the question and are using your revelations which have been produced by your THINKING/THOUGHT. To reiterate, you have thought a lot and have thought to ask the question: am I enlightened?

 

Drop the thinking, focus on your breath, meditate.

 

 

Great points!

Thanks for sharing!

[DalTheJigsaw123]

I believe I had read in one of Mantak Chia's books about Taoists having used drugs and elixirs to help in achieving "enlightenment". And there is a vast history of mushroom cults and use of drugs even in what one could consider a positive way. But that some who considered necessity of using substances decided that these substances had limitations (which perhaps an enlightened consciousness, or one seeking enlightenment should not have any hinderances due to dependence on externals) in that they would not always be readily available whenever needed, nor dosages consistent, side effects, and a few other unpredictable and uncontrollable factors. And thus a non-drug-dependent path may be the way to go.

 

And this consideration I have personally adopted.

 

But I will also admit that my use of marijuana in earlier years did provide me a way to look upon the world differently that did make a significant change in my life. But after a short while, its use muddies the auric field (I always actually see dark green clouds around the head of users) and slows its vibrations down. It causes a diuretic effect (dry or cotton mouth), also significantly impacts insulin/blood sugar (which is why you get the munchies), creates and extreme acidic ph reaction in the body (which can open one up to more yin illness) and affects the adrenal glands which can be wholly counterproductive with internal energy practice.

 

This is really interesting!

Thank you!

Have any sources/book recommendations for this?

[DalTheJigsaw123]

No worries mate, I only phrased my initial post a certain way because I was trying to get a point across and I didn't want you to overlook it . Moreover, I really wanted to express my sincere belief that continued use of marijuana with the intent to think rapidly isn't a good idea. I say this from experience and have had friends become totally ungrounded and partially insane which was brought on by rapidly thinking under the influence of cannabis. The problem is that the average human being is quite toxic because we live in a toxic society. There is so much trauma often present in man, that drugs - albeit natural - can bring these things to the surface in an uncontrollable and seemingly nonsensical manner.

 

You, my friend, are experiencing the dawning of awareness and no doubt crave information. This is part of the process but remember to find balance. Remember that the TAO is not some external thing, it is within you. Therefore, that is why you may resonate or remember thinking or feeling a certain way which you later discover is described in esoteric texts.

 

 

Great points here!

Also, I suggest going into the nature and just sitting there...

Do nothing, but breathe and do some more sitting and breathing...

See what kind of understanding and feelings that brings out of you...