Military Training

[Sunya]

You are protecting your way of life from who or what? The imaginary enemy that Pres. Bush created and sold to gullible and fearful U.S. citizens!

 

It is irrational to try and separate war from the military. Your logic is faulty.

 

The very act of going to war for a lie can only be done by brainwashed humans.

 

ralis

 

When millions of Muslims are brainwashed daily that the whole world must be an Islamic state and that America is Satan, I'm quite glad that the U.S. has a standing army. The world has changed incredibly since WW2, more so than all of the previous years combined. Ever since WW1 and the fall of the Ottomon Empire, many Muslims have gone nuts. Secularization and modernization are not on their priority list. They long for the old days of Muslim supremacy. Their religion tells them that they are the best and yet all they hear is how the West is so great -- does not compute. Oh and their 'holy land' -- no not Mecca but Israel for whatever reason -- is controlled by Jews, people who do not accept Muhammad. Anger and fundamentalism are the response. The West did not create Muslim fundamentalism, as much as hardcore liberals want to believe that, and it certainly is a real threat.

 

Oh and another common liberal response is that fundamentalism is a minority. Not true. Most Muslims are pretty sympathetic to the cause. And if you think that fundamentalism is a 'gross distortion' of the Quran, I suggest you actually read it sometime. It's not all birds and daisies.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Sunya

[Makyea]

When millions of Muslims are brainwashed daily that the whole world must be an Islamic state and that America is Satan, I'm quite glad that the U.S. has a standing army. The world has changed incredibly since WW2, more so than all of the previous years combined. Ever since WW1 and the fall of the Ottomon Empire, many Muslims have gone nuts. Secularization and modernization are not on their priority list. They long for the old days of Muslim supremacy. Their religion tells them that they are the best and yet all they hear is how the West is so great -- does not compute. Oh and their 'holy land' -- no not Mecca but Israel for whatever reason -- is controlled by Jews, people who do not accept Muhammad. Anger and fundamentalism are the response. The West did not create Muslim fundamentalism, as much as hardcore liberals want to believe that, and it certainly is a real threat.

 

Oh and another common liberal response is that fundamentalism is a minority. Not true. Most Muslims are pretty sympathetic to the cause. And if you think that fundamentalism is a 'gross distortion' of the Quran, I suggest you actually read it sometime. It's not all birds and daisies.

Your point of view makes me smile. I think that people don't understand that they have an army ready to kill us as well and so does china and any other country. We are not popular and whether that was because of our government or the military or whatever we are in a place where we need military to keep us safe.

[ralis]

When millions of Muslims are brainwashed daily that the whole world must be an Islamic state and that America is Satan, I'm quite glad that the U.S. has a standing army. The world has changed incredibly since WW2, more so than all of the previous years combined. Ever since WW1 and the fall of the Ottomon Empire, many Muslims have gone nuts. Secularization and modernization are not on their priority list. They long for the old days of Muslim supremacy. Their religion tells them that they are the best and yet all they hear is how the West is so great -- does not compute. Oh and their 'holy land' -- no not Mecca but Israel for whatever reason -- is controlled by Jews, people who do not accept Muhammad. Anger and fundamentalism are the response. The West did not create Muslim fundamentalism, as much as hardcore liberals want to believe that, and it certainly is a real threat.

 

Oh and another common liberal response is that fundamentalism is a minority. Not true. Most Muslims are pretty sympathetic to the cause. And if you think that fundamentalism is a 'gross distortion' of the Quran, I suggest you actually read it sometime. It's not all birds and daisies.

 

The Muslims are a threat to our way of life? I suppose you believe the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are completely justified? Now that you are joining the military, rational thinking is gone.

 

Exactly how are Muslims going to take over the world?

 

 

ralis

[Makyea]

The Muslims are a threat to our way of life? I suppose you believe the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are completely justified? Now that you are joining the military, rational thinking is gone.

 

Exactly how are Muslims going to take over the world?

 

 

ralis

I think the point was that there are threats out there and that no one is completly innocent

[ralis]

Your point of view makes me smile. I think that people don't understand that they have an army ready to kill us as well and so does china and any other country. We are not popular and whether that was because of our government or the military or whatever we are in a place where we need military to keep us safe.

 

You are just parroting the propaganda from the previous administration. Your arguments are emotional and have no basis in fact.

 

 

ralis

[Maddie]

As a recent University graduate who majored in history, with an emphasis on World War II and military history, I'd like to clarify a point.

The United States has always had a standing army. Prior to World War II it was usually a very small one composed of a cadre of professional soldiers. During times of war the militia was called up to greatly augment the regular army, and then after the war was over the militia went back to the farms.

Then came WWII, and the United States got caught with its pants down. Our standing military was so small that it took a couple years before it was large enough to really go on the offensive (that is why WWII started for America in 1941, but we did not land in Normandy until 1944).

Then after the war was over Truman and Stalin couldn't play nice with eachother so the Cold War began, thus keeping the military at a realtively large state for such a long time that now it has become part of the establishment and the idea of not having a large standing military is just too much of a paridim shift for most people to accept (I think Rush Limbaugh would have a stroke at such a suggestion.... hell lets suggest it then ha ha) so yea there ya go.

Edited August 20, 2010 by dmattwads

[Makyea]

As a recent University graduate who majored in history, with an emphasis on World War II and military history, I'd like to clarify a point.

The United States has always had a standing army. Prior to World War II it was usually a very small one complsed of a cadre of professional soldiers. During times of war the militia was called up to greatly augment the regular army, and then after the war was over the militia went back to the farms.

Then came WWII, and the United States got caught with its pants down. Our standing military was so small that it took a couple years before it was large enough to really go on the offensive (that is why WWII started for America in 1941, but we did not land in Normandy until 1944).

Then after the war was over Truman and Stalin couldn't play nice with eachother so the Cold War began keeping the military at a realtively large state for such a long time that now it has become part of the establishment and the idea of not having a large standing military is just too much of a paridim shift for most people to accept (I think Rush Limbaugh would have a stroke at such a suggestion.... hell lets suggest it then ha ha) so yea there ya go.

Thank you for putting that in better words than I could have.

[Makyea]

You are just parroting the propaganda from the previous administration. Your arguments are emotional and have no basis in fact.

 

 

ralis

So you don't believe that if we get rid of our military other countries would take us over?

[Makyea]

If anyone has any other excercise advice let me know!

[Sunya]

The Muslims are a threat to our way of life? I suppose you believe the Iraq and Afghanistan wars are completely justified? Now that you are joining the military, rational thinking is gone.

 

Exactly how are Muslims going to take over the world?

 

 

ralis

 

Saddam and Taliban were both brutal dictatorships. I don't care if it was about oil, though I hardly see that point since oil prices continue to rise.

[ralis]

So you don't believe that if we get rid of our military other countries would take us over?

 

The U.S. has a nuclear deterrent and therefor no one is going to attack this country. Besides most countries don't even have a navy. I guess they can swim.

 

 

ralis

[Makyea]

The U.S. has a nuclear deterrent and therefor no one is going to attack this country. Besides most countries don't even have a navy. I guess they can swim.

 

 

ralis

That is part of the military so if there is no military there is no Nuclear. Big countries do have navy and there is a such thing as planes

[Sunya]

The U.S. has a nuclear deterrent and therefor no one is going to attack this country. Besides most countries don't even have a navy. I guess they can swim.

 

 

ralis

 

We are not fighting traditional armies anymore. Terrorist cells have no national affiliations. Who are we going to nuke? There is no deterrent for them. Their goal is simple: to bring back the good old days of Muslim supremacy and for everyone to be Muslim. And they are willing to die for their goal. Jihad, holy war, is part of their book and their book is unquestionable since it is the literal word of God as spoken through their Prophet. How do you fight that?

 

I'm not saying all Muslims are hell-bent on taking over the world but there many sympathetic to the cause. My dad worked with an Egyptian guy for 15 years. This guy was very 'American,' and yet one day he admitted that he would join the 'cause' if he needed to. He was not sad at all when 9/11 happened. Now think about how many moderate Muslims there are in US and Europe. No threat my ass.

 

I know that the best cure for this problem is education and secularization. This is the best cure for any fundamentalism. But at the same time we cannot ignore the imminent threats out there, put our heads in the sand, get rid of our defenses, and hope that these problems go away. How is that pragmatic in the slightest? We need to focus on a long-term solution that does not involve just killing terrorists, since this of course just creates more, but as a short term solution it's all we have.

Edited August 20, 2010 by Sunya

[ralis]

Saddam and Taliban were both brutal dictatorships. I don't care if it was about oil, though I hardly see that point since oil prices continue to rise.

 

I guess you believe it is the job of the U.S. military to police the world! I suggest you study the Nuremberg Tribunals and the legal precedent created by the trials. Do you even understand why the Nazis were put on trial? The obvious is the holocaust. The primary reasons were unprovoked attacks on sovereign nations. The Nazi officers were charged with war crimes. That established U.S. and international law to prevent such atrocities.

 

The U.S. attacked Iraq which was a sovereign nation by positing a bogus argument which was based on fear! Even Bush admitted later in his administration and on national television, there were no WMD's. In fact the reasons for going to war changed every week. Iraqi freedom etc. This attack on a sovereign nation is a war crime! The facts are out there if you care to read them.

 

 

ralis

[3bob]

...if you join make sure the written terms are very clear and as to what type of training you'll get after BT.

I don't know about such options (or contracts) these days but many years ago soon after I joined they tried to switch me to a different field using pep talks and lots of pressure while I was in BT, I said no to the officer who was trying very hard to talk me into it, which is not so easy when you are green and they say the switch will be great in various ways.

 

Going in as an officer may be a better bet...?

[Makyea]

...if you join make sure the written terms are very clear and as to what type of training you'll get after BT.

I don't know about such options (or contracts) these days but many years ago soon after I joined they tried to switch me to a different field using pep talks and lots of pressure while I was in BT, I said no to the officer who was trying very hard to talk me into it, which is not so easy when you are green and they say the switch will be great in various ways.

 

Going in as an officer may be a better bet...?

I was actually thinking about this. Because the Air Guard is so full jobs are limited but the recruiter said that usually if you choose a job which requires a high ASVAB score than its pretty much guaranteed you can have that job. I will definetly be making sure of that though

[Kali Yuga]

I usually like your posts and your good feelings, but I don't really understand how you can support the idea of an Army: it's something evil, point.

 

We're on a Taoist forum: the hihest value should be love and compassion. The Army is exactly the opposite, death and distruction.

 

And there is nothing to protect: just experience and enjoy, understand the other people.

I accept violence just when there is no other way out. Wars has always been about power and money.

 

I don't wanna to start a flame, I just wanna to put into perspective how this thread is evolving.

 

Please look for Peace & Love not for Destruction & Death!

Well, really not to argue against your point, but the Tao is not the Tao if you only include one part and not the other. With creation comes dissolution and there is no means by which life can be made valuable if there was no death. Death and life are equal and opposite parts, the yin and the yang and without one there is no other.

 

A teacher of mine once said that unless you learn to die everyday you will never know what a true life is.

 

Of course I completely agree with you when you talk about wars being mass manipulation and evil etc.. but we are humans. was there ever a time when we didn't do this? some of the greatest strategist and generals of all time were Taoists and they had no qualms about crushing their enemy. perhaps the verse in the TTC will shed meaning? "man is likened to a straw etc.." too lazy to look up the whole verse.

[de_paradise]

The army is a terrible place for spiritual people, its about rules and following protocol and squelching independent thought. The American army is fighting losing wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, losing, and with unjust cause. They stay in the game because they cannot be seen to lose a war, that would send a message to the world that the Americans cant win a war. Yet the American army kills innocent people wholesale, there is so much negative karma involved with murder of innocents. Bush believed he was on a mission from God, its in his bio.

 

I suggest running--as far away from them as possible. You think this organization with help you build character? So can many other organizations. Once in the army your fate is apt to change drastically for the worse, being direct contributer to the murder of innocents, working for the power brokers.

Edited August 20, 2010 by de_paradise

[h.uriahr]

To the OP,

 

I was in the Navy for a very short while but I can certainly say that it didnt make me any kind of non thinkin "zombie" or take away my individuality at all. Obviously Unit Cohesion was stressed but that's in any "workplace". Anyone who isnt workin together or getting along, in any field, is frowned upon, regardless of whether it's the military or health occupation or whatever.

 

The military can be a really great experience if you let it. When people think "military" they either think about "Army Green" or "Jarheads" when that's not it at all. You can go into some other field besides infantry. They have construction fields, medical fields, admin, hell ANYTHING you can think of they have. The military is a self-regulated entity. Infantry isnt even all that bad if you're fighting for something you believe in. Personally I dont believe in what we are doing right now but then again, I wouldnt be an infantry guy now either.

 

Another great thing about the military besides job skills is the college funding. I dont know if they still do it but the Navy was giving out 40k ontop of the GI Bill. Not bad if you ask me.

 

Politics aside, do I think the military is a good choice? Yes. With that I would add, think about what you want to do with your life outside of the military and then find the branch that offers that choice and join that branch.

[Guest paul walter]

I am aware that there are passive members of this board. And the freedom I fought for while I served is what allow these people to be passive. I have no problem with that.

 

BTW The Art Of War is a Taoist writing. Taoists, in the most part, are not passive people. We will stand up for what is right and we will defend anything that is worth defending, and that includes the freedom we have in this wonderful nation of ours.

 

So are you just going to sit on your butt and allow someone to beat and rob you? Are you hust going to sit edly by while some junk-hear rapes your 11 year old daughter?

 

No, you are going to defend what you honor and love. Most members of militaries are doing the exact same thing.

 

Just remember that Taoism do not teach passivity. It teaches that we should understand nature and especially the nature of man and to be prepared to do whatever needs be done.

 

There are limits to being passive.

 

I will agree with you though that wars create only death and destruction but I will tell you right up front, I would rather it be my enemy who meets death and destruction rather than my enemy dealing it to me.

 

And if you or anyone else thing they have no enemies I suggest that they are sadly mistaken.

 

But I still wish for:

 

Peace & Love!

 

 

 

OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i've seen it all.

[Guest paul walter]

From anyone who will threaten it. Believe it or not people do want to take it from us.

 

 

If you really care for the America you believe exists let those "people" take the America we all know and love--it will act like a Trojan horse and clog their arteries by stealth, numb their minds and create a new passive work force of cheap maleable labour. They will be dead in a few years and freedom will reign from the heavens.

[buscon]

From anyone who will threaten it. Believe it or not people do want to take it from us.

 

Feeling threaten is exactly what the media propaganda is doing since 9/11: since communism is not an enemy anymore, a new one was needed.

The invisible und unlocalized terrorist is the perfect metaphor in order to have an excuse for an endless war. So, instead of resolving a problem, you actually create new enemies: people in the middle east see USA as a conqueror, as it actually is.

 

So please, if you wanna join the army, realize that you're supporting the Terror and the power of USA over the world: your're not going to bring freedom anywhere this way.

 

And if my words are too little, please read people like Noam Chomsky, and you'll know what I mean:

http://www.counterpunch.org/chomskyterror.html

 

and here smth interesting about taoism and war:

http://www.index-china.com/index-english/Taoism%20and%20A%20Few%20Words.html

America today has become the only superpower in the world after the dissolution of USSR. America is proud of their nation and has the strong will to dominate in the world affairs. The aggressiveness will bring America the power and self-fulfillment in the short run. But America in fact is living in fear, despair, lose of directions and great jealous. America "believes" that they are on the right side of the history and on top of the world. Their political system is the universal model for all other countries. Any other country different from "America value" must be wrong and thus America, the hero nation, will use all means to bring them back to the "right side of the history". America is living in the history of wars starting from wars against native Indians, to Independent Civil War, First and Second World War, Korean War, Vietnam War, Iran War, Iraq War and recently Kosova War. America leading the West continuously fights for "America Value" against Russian, Cuba, China and any other countries that they think will "endanger" their "position". America is on top of the list that countries participated in wars against other countries (right or wrong, up to the history to judge). America is the only country today with armies stationed in other people's land. All these have shown that America as a nation is lacking of the necessary confidence in the real world and in its own future. America is psychologically unprepared to substantiate any future failure and has no peace of mind. America is richer but unhappy, strong but weakening in their deep inside.

Edited August 20, 2010 by buscon

[Marblehead]

 

I know many people who have been in the military and people going in and not one has lost their individuality. The modern military is doing the same as the old. I do not believe in war I believe in protecting my way of life.

 

This is true. But I suggest that it was those who's individuality did not have a solid base who lost what they thought they had. We all can still be team players while firmly holding to our individuality.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

If anyone has any other excercise advice let me know!

 

You actually have gotten some good advice. Hehehe. Yeah, there is a lot of other stuff in here too.

 

You're doing fine.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

The army is a terrible place for spiritual people, ...

 

I disagree. One's spirituality lies within. Externals can never (or, at least, never should) effect our internal spirituality. That is consistent with the concept of wu wei.

 

Peace & Love!