Military Training

[Marblehead]

OH MY GODDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! now i've seen it all.

 

No where near all. There is so much more I could say but have no reason to do so at the moment. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

They will be dead in a few years and freedom will reign from the heavens.

 

Freedom is not free. Someone has to pay for it. And no, it doesn't rain down from heaven naturally. Heaven doesn't give a darn one way or another.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Feeling threaten is exactly what the media propaganda is doing since 9/11: since communism is not an enemy anymore, a new one was needed.

 

That's not true. If the US had not gotten involved in WWII all of us here in the US would be speaking German and you wouldn't have to translate your thoughts into English for us.

 

Peace & Love!

[buscon]

That's not true. If the US had not gotten involved in WWII all of us here in the US would be speaking German and you wouldn't have to translate your thoughts into English for us.

 

Peace & Love!

 

I don't find the connection between what you quoted from me and you're answer...

 

Anyway, please read Chomsky and the other link I gave, maybe you can understand what I really mean.

[3bob]

Freedom is not free. Someone has to pay for it. And no, it doesn't rain down from heaven naturally. Heaven doesn't give a darn one way or another.

 

Peace & Love!

 

About that last sentence MH, I suggest we consider the implications of Chapter 25 of the T.T.C.:

 

"...To be great is to go on,

To go on is to be far,

To be far is to return.

 

Hence, "Tao is great,

Heaven is great,

Earth is great,

King is great."

Thus, the king is one of the great four in the Universe.

 

Man follows the ways of the Earth.

The Earth follows the ways of Heaven,

Heaven follows the ways of Tao,

Tao follows its own ways."

[Marblehead]

I don't find the connection between what you quoted from me and you're answer...

 

Anyway, please read Chomsky and the other link I gave, maybe you can understand what I really mean.

 

Hi Buscon,

 

I was referring to the fact that this didn't start with 9/11. Fear mongering has been going on for thousands of years. And our governments are so very efficient at it.

 

I actually do understand what you mean. The thing is though, is that this thread would be so very opne-sided if I were not presenting an alternative view.

 

I am by no means suggesting that wars are good. On the contrary. However, I will suggest that a show of preparedness for self defense will prevent many, many tests to see if a person or a country can be overcome through the use of force.

 

And believe me, I was and still am totally against the Vietnam and Iraq wars. The reasons offered by our (the US) government for the need for the wars were nothing but lies.

 

I believe though, that the world community had the need and the right to take action in Afghanistan. However, it was gone about all wrong and that is why there has been next to no progress. Hey, those ass holes are still burying people up to their shoulders and stoning them to death just because they wanted to get married without getting the shitheads' permission.

 

Now I will agree that a good case can be made suggesting that this is an internal problem and should be addressed by the people who live there. I would argue that while this is true, the minute the violence spread to any other nation it became a world-wide problem.

 

And I agree that it would be a wonderful thing if no country had the need for a military. Just think of all the resources that would be available to the general population! And it would be a wonderful thing if no person, anywhere in the world, had to secure their possessions and those people they cared about.

 

But the truth is, that day is not here and I doubt, judging by the history of man's activities, that there will ever be that day. There will always be a need for militaries and police forces because not everyone does the right and honest thing. People cheat! They try to scheme others out of what they have. When their schemes don't work they sometimes try force and violence. We all, whether it be the individual or an entire nation, must protect ourselves.

 

And I still wish for:

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

About that last sentence MH, I suggest we consider the implications of Chapter 25 of the T.T.C.:

 

"...To be great is to go on,

To go on is to be far,

To be far is to return.

 

Hence, "Tao is great,

Heaven is great,

Earth is great,

King is great."

Thus, the king is one of the great four in the Universe.

 

Man follows the ways of the Earth.

The Earth follows the ways of Heaven,

Heaven follows the ways of Tao,

Tao follows its own ways."

 

And my dear 3bob, did you see anything in those passages where it suggested that earth, heaven or Tao is full of compassion, caring, equitable, loving, kind, etc.?

 

No. What is being suggested is that there are processes and that one models itself on the other. Look into the universe. All is not calm and peaceful. There is a lot of violence going on. Stars exploding! Black holes sucking up anything that gets within their control. The universe doesn't care.

 

Earth! A calm and peaceful place? Tornados, hurricanes, floods, earthquakes, etc. Earth doesn't care.

 

King! What is the king concerned about? Maintaining his power. And he will do whatever it takes in order to maintain this power. Even it requires submitting his entire nation to destruction. The king doesn't care.

 

Man! Ah! Here is some hope. There are those who really do care and they try to make life better for themselves and others. But they still have no control over the actions of the universe, of the action of earth, andvery little, if any, control over the king.

 

So if man follows the way of the king and the king follows the way of earth and if earth follows the way of the universe it is still going to be a pretty violent place here on earth to live. So to prevent violence from entering our life we learn the processes that are effecting everything and we do our best to live a peaceful life and avoid the violence.

 

Peace & Love!

Edited August 20, 2010 by Marblehead

[buscon]

Hi Buscon,

 

I was referring to the fact that this didn't start with 9/11. Fear mongering has been going on for thousands of years. And our governments are so very efficient at it.

 

I actually do understand what you mean. The thing is though, is that this thread would be so very opne-sided if I were not presenting an alternative view.

 

I am by no means suggesting that wars are good. On the contrary. However, I will suggest that a show of preparedness for self defense will prevent many, many tests to see if a person or a country can be overcome through the use of force.

 

And believe me, I was and still am totally against the Vietnam and Iraq wars. The reasons offered by our (the US) government for the need for the wars were nothing but lies.

 

now I understand what you mean.

 

 

I believe though, that the world community had the need and the right to take action in Afghanistan. However, it was gone about all wrong and that is why there has been next to no progress. Hey, those ass holes are still burying people up to their shoulders and stoning them to death just because they wanted to get married without getting the shitheads' permission.

 

Now I will agree that a good case can be made suggesting that this is an internal problem and should be addressed by the people who live there. I would argue that while this is true, the minute the violence spread to any other nation it became a world-wide problem.

 

 

The war in Afghanistan was the same lie as the other wars, just a bit less bitter.

The idea of bringing freedom to other countries it's bullshit, it's a good excuse to conquer them: it's the same story since europe started to colonize the entire world, now USA is doing the same.

We wanna civilize them and give them a better life: it's actually very arrogant, you assume to be better and you judge the situation by your point of view and using as a source the news given from the state.

If USA really care about freedom of people, should start to threat better their neightbours, Mexico as an example, before going to Afghanistan or wherever and assuming to care about women's right.

 

Still the situation of the women in afghanistan was and still not good, you cannot compare with USA, or you can do it but taking the whole situation, not just a little piece.

A professor of mine once proposed a paper with the title: "Is it more offensive the Burka or Playboy for a woman ?" - I don't have a clean answer to this question, it's just a way to say that you need the context to judge, otherwise it's just tv bullshit.

 

 

And I agree that it would be a wonderful thing if no country had the need for a military. Just think of all the resources that would be available to the general population! And it would be a wonderful thing if no person, anywhere in the world, had to secure their possessions and those people they cared about.

 

But the truth is, that day is not here and I doubt, judging by the history of man's activities, that there will ever be that day. There will always be a need for militaries and police forces because not everyone does the right and honest thing. People cheat! They try to scheme others out of what they have. When their schemes don't work they sometimes try force and violence. We all, whether it be the individual or an entire nation, must protect ourselves.

 

And I still wish for:

 

Peace & Love!

 

I prefere to spend my time in other directions, instead of considering Army as unavoidable compromise: as I said freedom is about believing in free ideas.

Just think about some illuminated people like Buddha, Dalai Lama, Ghandi, Jesus Crist and so on: that's enough to delete army or war from my dictionary.

 

Defending yourself is another subject, and it's not the case of USA: just think about how much money are involved and you know the real reason of wars.

[ralis]

The recent infiltration of right wing Christian fanatics into the military is of concern to me. The USAF Academy is a hotbed of Christian extremism.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8978194

 

 

ralis

[Brian]

...

[ralis]

Freedom is not free.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Shawn Hannity used that mantra to justify the Iraq war. Freedom for who or what? Do you watch Fox News?

 

Bush used the term "crusade" when referring to the military action in Iraq. The people in that region have not forgotten what "crusade" means.

 

The media has become a right wing propaganda machine.

 

 

ralis

Edited August 20, 2010 by ralis

[ralis]

And Wicca, too.

 

Would you care to elaborate?

 

ralis

[Brian]

...

[ralis]

 

 

BTW, the "freedom isn't free" thing far predates either Hannity or Fox News -- I believe it was actually one of the songs in "Up with People" back in the '60s and may be earlier than that. I know that Aristotle said "we make war that we may live in peace."

 

 

 

 

All I meant was Fox News using that mantra to justify anything the previous administration wanted.

 

ralis

[Brian]

...

[ralis]

There are a few participants in this thread that obviously don't understand propaganda and how it is used to manipulate the mind.

 

I would suggest reading and comprehending the following which is by no means a comprehensive list.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Nineteen-Eighty-Four-George-Orwell/dp/0452284236/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282317903&sr=8-4

 

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goebmain.htm This archive contains speeches by Hitler's chief propagandist, Joseph Goebbels. Translated into English.

 

http://www.amazon.com/Mass-Psychology-Fascism-Wilhelm-Reich/dp/0374508844/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1282318252&sr=8-3

 

Any work on NLP

 

BTW, there a few here that believe that Taoism is just some warrior path. Wrong! It is also a path to awakening!

 

 

ralis

[voidisyinyang]

Part of me has been yelling at myself those exact words and to just go to the University of Minnesota and major in Pre-biosystems engineering and bio-based products like I had planned.

 

Well since I'm in Minnesota and I have a masters from the U of MN -- I know exactly what program Makyea is referring to -- it's a new engineering degree focused on sustainability.

 

Now I realize the military tries to project an image of being "green" which is of course ridiculous as the U.S. military is the most environmentally destructive organization on Earth.

 

Scorched Earth: The Military's Assault on the Environment by William Thomas is the best book on the subject.

 

The fact is Iraq is a nuclear wasteland now -- due to engineering done in Minnesota -- at AlliantTech which also does aerospace engineering!

 

http://willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/US_Veteran_Reveals_Atomic_Bombs.html

 

http://alliantaction.org/atk/k1go/about.html

 

I was arrested at Alliant Tech -- protesting against their depleted uranium manufacturing:

 

http://alliantaction.org/download/pdf/0408whyatk2up.pdf

 

An award winning documentary film produced for German television by Freider Wagner and Valentin Thurn. The film exposes the use and impact of radioactive weapons during the current war against Iraq. The story is told by citizens of many nations. It opens with comments by two British veterans, Kenny Duncan and Jenny Moore, describing their exposure to radioactive, so-called depleted uranium (DU), weapons and the congenital abnormalities of their children. Dr. Siegwart-Horst Gunther, a former colleague of Albert Schweitzer, and Tedd Weyman of the Uranium Medical Research Center (UMRC) traveled to Iraq, from Germany and Canada respectively, to assess uranium contamination in Iraq

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5146778547681767408&ei=SajxSq7oFIW0qwK80OCXAQ&q=The+Doctor%2C+the+Depleted+Uranium+and+the+Dying+Children&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

 

Poison Dust tells the story of young soldiers who thought they came home safely from the war, but didn't.

Of a veteran's young daughter whose birth defect is striking similar to birth defects suffered by many Iraqi children.

Of thousands of young vets who are suffering from the symptoms of uranium poisoning, and the thousands more who are likely to get them.

Of a government unwilling to admit the problem.

Filmmaker Sue Harris skillfully mixes interviews with soldiers with experts such as Dr. Helen Caldicott, Dr. Michio Kaku, and Major Doug Rokke - the former head of the U.S. Army DU Project- explaining how residue from exploded DU shells radiates people.

Everyone who cares about our troops and the innocent civilians who are exposed to this poison should see this film.

Every soldier, potential soldier and family member should see this film.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8199922330478323814#

Edited August 20, 2010 by drewhempel

[ralis]

I understood that, ralis! I was just nudging you a little there -- trying to push you beyond the Democrat vs. Republican envelope within which you seem to have unfortunately (and, I presume, unwittingly) trapped yourself. You frequently mention the previous administration but not the one before that or the current one. Personally, I find them all "tragically flawed" (quote borrowed from somewhere) and largely carved from the same stone.

 

At this point in time I am beyond left and right politically. However, I want to emphasize what happened during the Bush years that has lead to this tragedy.

 

 

ralis

[ralis]

Well since I'm in Minnesota and I have a masters from the U of MN -- I know exactly what program Makyea is referring to -- it's a new engineering degree focused on sustainability.

 

Now I realize the military tries to project an image of being "green" which is of course ridiculous as the U.S. military is the most environmentally destructive organization on Earth.

 

Scorched Earth: The Military's Assault on the Environment by William Thomas is the best book on the subject.

 

The fact is Iraq is a nuclear wasteland now -- due to engineering done in Minnesota -- at AlliantTech which also does aerospace engineering!

 

http://willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/US_Veteran_Reveals_Atomic_Bombs.html

 

http://alliantaction.org/atk/k1go/about.html

 

I was arrested at Alliant Tech -- protesting against their depleted uranium manufacturing:

 

http://alliantaction.org/download/pdf/0408whyatk2up.pdf

 

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5146778547681767408&ei=SajxSq7oFIW0qwK80OCXAQ&q=The+Doctor%2C+the+Depleted+Uranium+and+the+Dying+Children&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

 

 

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8199922330478323814#

 

 

Thanks for your astute research. I knew nothing about this program. A green military? What a joke!

 

ralis

[voidisyinyang]

Thanks for your astute research. I knew nothing about this program. A green military? What a joke!

 

ralis

 

Oops when it's "embedded" then you can watch it full screen

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5146778547681767408&ei=SajxSq7oFIW0qwK80OCXAQ&q=The+Doctor%2C+the+Depleted+Uranium+and+the+Dying+Children&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8199922330478323814#

 

Yeah that second vid is really amazing -- Poison DUst -- and there's some military hack who harasses people online who post the vid. He emailed me over at http://concen.org when I posted it there -- and then I found an expose on him when he harassed another website, and he just does it all over as his job.

Edited August 20, 2010 by drewhempel

[Marblehead]

The war in Afghanistan was the same lie as the other wars, just a bit less bitter.

 

No. There is more to it than that. That was the breeding and training grounds for the Islamic terrorists.

 

Peace & Love!

[Marblehead]

Shawn Hannity used that mantra to justify the Iraq war. Freedom for who or what? Do you watch Fox News?

 

Bush used the term "crusade" when referring to the military action in Iraq. The people in that region have not forgotten what "crusade" means.

 

The media has become a right wing propaganda machine.

 

ralis

 

All I can say is that we should be aware of which lies we are accepting. No, I don't watch FOX or any of the other broadcast news stations. They all lie.

 

Peace & Love!

[voidisyinyang]

No. There is more to it than that. That was the breeding and training grounds for the Islamic terrorists.

 

Peace & Love!

 

Well now it's the breeding and training ground for mutated radioactive genetically damaged soldiers:

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5146778547681767408&ei=SajxSq7oFIW0qwK80OCXAQ&q=The+Doctor%2C+the+Depleted+Uranium+and+the+Dying+Children&hl=en&client=firefox-a#

 

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=2374

 

Two additional scientific study teams were sent to Afghanistan. The first arrived in June 2002, concentrating on the Jalalabad region. The second arrived four months later, broadening the study to include the capital Kabul, which has a population of nearly 3.5 million people. The city itself contains the highest recorded number of fixed targets during Operation Enduring Freedom. For the study's purposes, the vicinity of three major bomb sites were examined. It was predicted that signatures of depleted or enriched uranium would be found in the urine and soil samples taken during the research. The team was unprepared for the shock of its findings, which indicated in both Jalalabad and Kabul, DU was causing the high levels of illness. Tests taken from a number of Jalalabad subjects showed concentrations 400% to 2000% above that for normal populations, amounts which have not been recorded in civilian studies before.

 

Those in Kabul who were directly exposed to US-British precision bombing showed extreme signs of contamination, consistent with uranium exposure. These included pains in joints, back/kidney pain, muscle weakness, memory problems and confusion and disorientation. Those exposed to the bombing report symptoms of flu-type illnesses, bleeding, runny noses and blood-stained mucous. How many of these people will suffer a painful and early death from cancer? Even the study team itself complained of similar symptoms during their stay. Most of these symptoms last for days or months.

 

In August of 2002, UMRC completed its preliminary analysis of the results from Nangarhar. Without exception, every person donating urine specimens tested positive for uranium contamination. The specific results indicated an astoundingly high level of contamination; concentrations were 100 to 400 times greater than those of the Gulf War Veterans tested in 1999. A researcher reported. "We took both soil and biological samples, and found considerable presence in urine samples of radioactivity; the heavy concentration astonished us. They were beyond our wildest imagination."

 

In the fall of 2002, the UMRC field team went back to Afghanistan for a broader survey, and revealed a potentially larger exposure than initially anticipated. Approximately 30% of those interviewed in the affected areas displayed symptoms of radiation sickness. New born babies were among those displaying symptoms, with village elders reporting that over 25% of the infants were inexplicably ill.

 

How widespread and extensive is the exposure? A quote from the UMRC field report reads:

 

"The UMRC field team was shocked by the breadth of public health impacts coincident with the bombing. Without exception, at every bombsite investigated, people are ill. A significant portion of the civilian population presents symptoms consistent with internal contamination by uranium."

 

In Afghanistan, unlike Iraq, UMRC lab results indicated high concentrations of NON-DEPLETED URANIUM, with the concentrations being much higher than in DU victims from Iraq. Afghanistan was used as a testing ground for a new generation of "bunker buster" bombs containing high concentrations of other uranium alloys.

Edited August 20, 2010 by drewhempel

[metal dog]

The recent infiltration of right wing Christian fanatics into the military is of concern to me. The USAF Academy is a hotbed of Christian extremism.

 

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8978194

 

 

ralis

 

And when I listened to George Bush Jr. publicly state that, "God told me to go to war in Iraq." I kept wondering why isn't anyone throwing a straight jacket on this guy and whisking him away to a padded cell.

We have a delusional religious zealot as a president who is stating he is hearing a voice in his head, the voice of God, telling him it is time to go to war.

 

Anyone else claiming death and destruction by a voice of God in their head would be committed immediately out of public safety.

[Brian]

...