Enlightenment and the Hermit

[The Observer]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

Edited August 20, 2010 by The Observer

[Marblehead]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice as a unit of society?

 

Don't be running off to a cave somewhere. What you think you need is already inside you and it will always be there no matter where you are. Just listen to yourself.

 

Peace & Love!

[thelerner]

Marblehead is right,

 

BUT..I think we all need a bit cave every now and then. I'm thinking of 3 day weekend alone each year, preferably out in nature. Heck even in a room, but no electronics, food simple and dull, just water.. A chance to for heavy duty, long term meditation.

 

Some time in our life, I assume its later on, we could all do with some cave time. Even if its short, just being in nature, away from it all, no people, no electronics, no noise, no news. I think it helps strip away some of artifices.

 

 

Michael

 

Another thing, enlightenment is a loaded word, I like to think of the end goal as being a complete human being, warts and all.

[NeiChuan]

I think a couple of months would be good.. Maybe 2 or 3 to really know the feeling of settling in the wilderness.

 

Maybe more.

 

Its not needed for some anyway..So no big deal

[Guest paul walter]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

 

 

 

Yes, you definitely need to cut ties with all that keeps you in ignorance. Unfortunately for people like us that means cutting ties with almost everything. You need to keep away from opinions, cleverness, theories, advice etc etc which in practice means staying away from most all people since they hate to see someone show them up and leave the fold!! In general people hate the idea of wisdom, if only because it goes directly against thier education/indoctrination which they think helps them in life and defines their identity (which is usually pretty resistant to change).You will also need to understand that for modern people in techno societies the essential first job to do is settling the nervous/reactive system which means detoxing the senses too. This can be done amongst the society you are in but the chances of futile/unproductive pain and 'failure' are much greater, so it is advisable to prepare to leave the kindergarten that is our culture and find wings amongst the original tao etc (trees, animals, wind...). Being 'homeless'in a city is a very good illusion/karma burner I've found--not in winter though. It shows you the 'hidden'/taken for granted side of a society like nothing else--very confronting (of both self and others) but highly recommended. Hope this helps

Edited August 21, 2010 by paul walter

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Marblehead is right,

 

BUT..I think we all need a bit cave every now and then. I'm thinking of 3 day weekend alone each year, preferably out in nature. Heck even in a room, but no electronics, food simple and dull, just water.. A chance to for heavy duty, long term meditation.

 

Some time in our life, I assume its later on, we could all do with some cave time. Even if its short, just being in nature, away from it all, no people, no electronics, no noise, no news. I think it helps strip away some of artifices.

 

 

Michael

 

Another thing, enlightenment is a loaded word, I like to think of the end goal as being a complete human being, warts and all.

 

 

Great points!

Thanks!

[The Observer]

Thanks for the insights everyone. Very, very helpful

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Yes, you definitely need to cut ties with all that keeps you in ignorance. Unfortunately for people like us that means cutting ties with almost everything. You need to keep away from opinions, cleverness, theories, advice etc etc which in practice means staying away from most all people since they hate to see someone show them up and leave the fold!! In general people hate the idea of wisdom, if only because it goes directly against thier education/indoctrination which they think helps them in life and defines their identity (which is usually pretty resistant to change).You will also need to understand that for modern people in techno societies the essential first job to do is settling the nervous/reactive system which means detoxing the senses too. This can be done amongst the society you are in but the chances of futile/unproductive pain and 'failure' are much greater, so it is advisable to prepare to leave the kindergarten that is our culture and find wings amongst the original tao etc (trees, animals, wind...). Being 'homeless'in a city is a very good illusion/karma burner I've found--not in winter though. It shows you the 'hidden'/taken for granted side of a society like nothing else--very confronting (of both self and others) but highly recommended. Hope this helps

 

 

This was awesome!

Sounded like poetry reading:)

Would love to hear more.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

Yes, you definitely need to cut ties with all that keeps you in ignorance. Unfortunately for people like us that means cutting ties with almost everything. You need to keep away from opinions, cleverness, theories, advice etc etc which in practice means staying away from most all people since they hate to see someone show them up and leave the fold!! In general people hate the idea of wisdom, if only because it goes directly against thier education/indoctrination which they think helps them in life and defines their identity (which is usually pretty resistant to change).You will also need to understand that for modern people in techno societies the essential first job to do is settling the nervous/reactive system which means detoxing the senses too. This can be done amongst the society you are in but the chances of futile/unproductive pain and 'failure' are much greater, so it is advisable to prepare to leave the kindergarten that is our culture and find wings amongst the original tao etc (trees, animals, wind...). Being 'homeless'in a city is a very good illusion/karma burner I've found--not in winter though. It shows you the 'hidden'/taken for granted side of a society like nothing else--very confronting (of both self and others) but highly recommended. Hope this helps

 

 

This was awesome!

Sounded like poetry reading:)

Would love to hear more.

[Gerard]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large

 

Yes, you have to. It's mandatory and necessary or you only will be baking your bread half way. But it is not necessary to live like a hermit the rest of your life; frequent periods of isolation (like for example once a year extended retreats) works best because in the end we humans are social creatures and cutting off ties with society is not the answer.

 

Examples of saints and enlightened humans who attained a very high (and some the highest potential):

 

Gautama Buddha

Milarepa

Lao Tzu

Muhammad

Jesus the Christ

Various prophets like Moses, John the Baptist, Elijah, Jeremiah, Isaiah and Ezekiel followed ascetism for a period of time in their spiritual path.

Christian mystics like St Theresa of Avila and St John of the Cross were recluses. They wrote extensive works during those years: poems, essays, letters, etc. Francis of Assisi was a wandering ascetic.

 

There is a very good book (non Buddhist) on the subject called:

 

The Heremitic Life: Encountering God in Silence and Solitude by Fr. Cornelius Wencel, EC

 

 

 

...or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

 

Too many distractions, too much internal chatter, you'll be limiting yourself to achieve X% of your highest potential. Let me suggest you something: attend a three week silent retreat and let us know when you come back and fully immerse yourself again in busy society.

[Marblehead]

BUT..I think we all need a bit cave every now and then.

 

Well, sure. But I wasn't in the mood to write a whole bunch at the time I posted. Hehehe.

 

Peace & Love!

[The Observer]

 

 

 

 

Too many distractions, too much internal chatter, you'll be limiting yourself to achieve X% of your highest potential. Let me suggest you something: attend a three week silent retreat and let us know when you come back and fully immerse yourself again in busy society.

Haha I'll see about that sir...I feel circumstances may lead me to this but not yet.

Edited August 21, 2010 by The Observer

[Aetherous]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

 

It's not necessary to go into retreat and leave society.

[Gerard]

It's not necessary to go into retreat and leave society.

 

I agree with the last part but disagree with the first (retreat).

 

I would like to read your reasoning for saying that.

 

Thanks.

[Aetherous]

Oh, then we're in agreement. I meant them as the same thing.

[~jK~]

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

 

Anyone can be a monk on the mountain.

[johndoe2012]

I can't be a hermit in this life, which is why I have started dream yoga. It means 7-8 hours of extra practise every night, granted that you are aware while dreaming.

[Spectrum]

Sensory Deprivation is one way. Complete Saturation in Nature in another way. There are many paths into town, but very few near mountain peaks.

[dnice]

lol its easy for me to be a saint in this room, but ill show how much of a saint i am in my physical day job.

 

 

look at yours egos when ur suffering, that is the right time to meditate.

 

everybody can play a saint in a pleasurable environment, but go ahead live through something harsh and see what type of saint you really are.

 

hard times are perfect for meditation

 

 

am i wrong?

Edited August 22, 2010 by dnice

[The Observer]

lol its easy for me to be a saint in this room, but ill show how much of a saint i am in my physical day job.

 

 

look at yours egos when ur suffering, that is the right time to meditate.

 

everybody can play a saint in a pleasurable environment, but go ahead live through something harsh and see what type of saint you really are.

 

hard times are perfect for meditation

 

 

am i wrong?

Very , very valid point.

[DalTheJigsaw123]

It's easy to escape into the mountains or into nature to be a hermit

But it's not easy to be wake up/reach "enlightenment in everyday life...

The question really is, how does one reach understanding and awakening when living a life in this society...

[Guest paul walter]

It's not necessary to go into retreat and leave society.

 

Actually it is. Even if geographically you are still in a city etc.

[Guest paul walter]

It's easy to escape into the mountains or into nature to be a hermit

But it's not easy to be wake up/reach "enlightenment in everyday life...

The question really is, how does one reach understanding and awakening when living a life in this society...

 

 

Well Leon, one of the best ways is by first understanding that this society you find yourself in doesn't care whether you live or die. It's just an economic system. This should help the beginning of drawing the boundaries and focusing more on the biological/'spiritual' self since this world will not take care of your life (in fact it might even kill you "before your time" through stress, toxins, etc). Thios can go along way to explaining our feelings of 'lostness'/dissatisfaction with the life we find ourselves in. Do you want to take control of your own path no matter what the cost to that abusive relationship we call citizen/society? These are just some preparatory thoughts on the hermit way. Ultimately the act of withdrawing from the world of people is the ultimate critique of that worlds failure to accomodate difference or even sanity? Any honest hermit will tell you that mankinds social 'way' is a little passe, a little past its use-by date,worn out, laughable...- just that not many ask for a hermits opinion and if they do then not many speak an answer that is pallatable or even bother to answer at all.Paul

[~jK~]

lol its easy for me to be a saint in this room, but ill show how much of a saint i am in my physical day job.

look at yours egos when ur suffering, that is the right time to meditate.

everybody can play a saint in a pleasurable environment, but go ahead live through something harsh and see what type of saint you really are.

hard times are perfect for meditation

am i wrong?

 

Dislexia?

Hard times are brought on by no meditation = The perfect time for meditation is always NoW.

 

 

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Edited August 23, 2010 by ~jK~

[Aetherous]

Actually it is. Even if geographically you are still in a city etc.

 

I disagree.