Formless and Active Meditation

[Kali Yuga]

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation. It is like giving up all your worries, you problems, your thoughts and concerns, everything. I heard somewhere that it is the highest kind of meditation that one can engage in. I believe in Taoism this is called "sitting in forgetfulness"? The feeling of surrender and an empty mind is very, very blissful. The form that I use was taken from the words of Father Bede Griffiths, O.S.B when he says "surrender to the mother." He describes an experience where he had a stroke and felt his mind empty.. where he was laid out for days and was expected to die. These words came into his mind. He himself expected that he would die, and finally instead of fighting it, surrendered to it. Accompanying this was an incredible feeling of bliss. And instead of dying, he recovered and lived to tell about it.

 

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. I am a man, my wife is angry, i have to go to class tomorrow etc. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too. I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized. Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work. Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price. Taking energy and storing it is a real earnest effort, not something you pick up at 7-11. In our own practice if you want to make a lightbulb crush a tile you have to focus energy into it and believe that it is heavy and hard. I have heard people say its easy to be a master of the tao, you have to be as effortless as possible but then again they themselves don't seem to be what they preach so goodluck to them with that.

 

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

 

 

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

[~jK~]

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation. It is like giving up all your worries, you problems, your thoughts and concerns, everything. I heard somewhere that it is the highest kind of meditation that one can engage in. I believe in Taoism this is called "sitting in forgetfulness"? The feeling of surrender and an empty mind is very, very blissful. The form that I use was taken from the words of Father Bede Griffiths, O.S.B when he says "surrender to the mother." He describes an experience where he had a stroke and felt his mind empty.. where he was laid out for days and was expected to die. These words came into his mind. He himself expected that he would die, and finally instead of fighting it, surrendered to it. Accompanying this was an incredible feeling of bliss. And instead of dying, he recovered and lived to tell about it.

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. I am a man, my wife is angry, i have to go to class tomorrow etc. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too. I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized. Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work. Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price. Taking energy and storing it is a real earnest effort, not something you pick up at 7-11. In our own practice if you want to make a lightbulb crush a tile you have to focus energy into it and believe that it is heavy and hard. I have heard people say its easy to be a master of the tao, you have to be as effortless as possible but then again they themselves don't seem to be what they preach so goodluck to them with that.

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

 

WoW there is intelligent life on this planet after all (\^..^/)

Experiences?

Somewhere between about/around 20 or 50 years of the same as you've posted.

(I'm shy of telling my untrue age ) But then again I'm not shure of which life I'm in right now either. All I know is that I've been here before and would like to do it again. (I had a really good birthmother)

 

For Active meditation I usually give it the name of Taoism as from my experiences/present understandings is that the Tao is a bit structured (right brain) with a core center foundation of universal timng. It's good for building things like roadmaps on how to get places.

 

Whereas with Passive or Creative (Left Brain) meditation, I usually attribute it to Buddhism and presently consider it as meditaton in it's pure form.

 

Of course I like to leave room for the universal constant of ((((Change))))

The problem with Buddhist meditation is that once I get into it, it's hard to get out of it.

 

By the way, I practice savasana yoga as a form of escape / astral projection and overall mental evolution - also for somewhere between 20 to 50 years.

 

Lately I've been experimenting with crystals and their energy and found them to be a fairly good meditation aid/focus - or maybe just a good reminder - but off subject - I am also finding a bit of a healing energy coming from them that is 'V'ery much akin to the risings I got from when I went through the steps of Kundalini Yoga.

Here's a megawebsite that claims the Chakra's are but a "motion in the alchemy of time." http://www.crystalinks.com/chakras.html

 

Try to Be a tad carefull of the website - I've seen it blossom, over the years, from a tiny webpage to one that she claims has around 50,000 files to get lost in.

Just last night I missed 5 TV shows while learning stuff from it.

Mo'Later

[hagar]

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation. It is like giving up all your worries, you problems, your thoughts and concerns, everything. I heard somewhere that it is the highest kind of meditation that one can engage in. I believe in Taoism this is called "sitting in forgetfulness"? The feeling of surrender and an empty mind is very, very blissful. The form that I use was taken from the words of Father Bede Griffiths, O.S.B when he says "surrender to the mother." He describes an experience where he had a stroke and felt his mind empty.. where he was laid out for days and was expected to die. These words came into his mind. He himself expected that he would die, and finally instead of fighting it, surrendered to it. Accompanying this was an incredible feeling of bliss. And instead of dying, he recovered and lived to tell about it.

 

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. I am a man, my wife is angry, i have to go to class tomorrow etc. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too. I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized. Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work. Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price. Taking energy and storing it is a real earnest effort, not something you pick up at 7-11. In our own practice if you want to make a lightbulb crush a tile you have to focus energy into it and believe that it is heavy and hard. I have heard people say its easy to be a master of the tao, you have to be as effortless as possible but then again they themselves don't seem to be what they preach so goodluck to them with that.

 

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

 

 

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

 

 

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

 

Great question.

 

Actually, what you are asking about is not method per se, but the relationship between Conscious intent and True nature?

 

What I have seen in my practice is that these aspects may be present at different layers of whatever one is doing.

 

There is the aspect of the dualistic world of form, where meditation on form, energy or quality could be performed. However, at the same time, there is always a more static, eternal, or symbolic nature of any position that is fully integrated, fully tuned in. This aspect or dimension of practice, being it standing, moving or sitting is approaching the formless, empty, symbolic, cosmic state.

 

In my own practice its a matter of emphasis, and not one or the other.

 

I can do a standing posture with a symbolic or cosmic quality, and do a totally still meditation wich is very "dynamic" and energetically active.

 

Dont know if any of this makes any sense at all...

 

h

[Marblehead]

Nice posts y'all. Thanks for sharing.

 

Peace & Love!

[~jK~]

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation.

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too.

 

I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized.

 

Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work.

 

Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price.

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

 

Kali Yuga - I apologize for disecting your post but it is exactly what I've been thinking about. My aim was to bring more of the essence to the obvious points that you brought up..

 

I've been studying crystals as one of the Yang methods of reaching higher levels of meditation - The crystals work -and- I'm wondering just how many methods there are that I haven't thought about - as well as 'when does a method become a problem to the objective' or even -does it become a problem ?

 

Of course the crystals may be having a psychological effect of reassuring my confidence that if something can be touched it has more of a place in reality - so as to give me a prop. But the risings that I am having are exactly the same effect that Kundalini Yoga had, on me, when I was began studying it about 20 or more years ago.

 

I echo: feel free to comment on experiences.

 

The reason I echo 'experiences' is that 'experiences' are the foundation of the Scientific method of objective observation.

Whereas 'beliefs' are founded on only windborn thoughts with little to no connection to reality other than one persons imaginative dream.

[freeform]

There are also 'formless' - qi gong methods in Taoism. Stillness Movement is one such practice - but there are many more.

[Birch]

Cool thread!

 

Meditations where you visualize something in particular are very interesting IMO because who would've thought that you could have come up with that stuff by yourself?? Because left to your own devices, what happens? So suddenly you're thinking/feeling/seeing "something else". Doesn't it make you realize,...something?

 

The "just letting go" meditations are IMO different because the difficulty IMO becomes your navigation and allowing of your experience. As the body relaxes, mind drops, images/feelings come by - do I shy away from them? Why?

 

I sometimes think they meet in the middle.

[hagar]

There are also 'formless' - qi gong methods in Taoism. Stillness Movement is one such practice - but there are many more.

 

I'd guess my primary sitting practice called "return journey" is such a formless practice.

What emerges through such practice is interesting. The experience is that at a certain point what comes up is the symbolic or eternal state of the real body. The true practice is just to embody this allready existing nature, or cosmic information.

 

Funny thing is that allthough the body may be painful or not completely allright, there is a feeling of not being the body at all, as if the body is a joke, yet at the same time completely intimate, completely embodied. Its painful, yet wonderful, and still very ordinary, even bland. Its actually not very meditative.

Its still, but at the same time, spinning, and it actually feels like you are spinning, or the spine is connected to the eternal spin, or alignment.

 

Sometimes I get it, and its a feeling when you wear your old shoe; its not really there. But sometimes I try to get it and it feels like I forgot to tie my shoelace...

Ahem. Bad analogy.

 

h

[freeform]

Ahem. Bad analogy.

 

no - I get what you mean.