Dog BEATEN

[Afromojo]

{WARNING this link is quite disturbing I only put it back as I don't like to edit other peoples posts, still I don't recommend downloading this EDIT: LINK REMOVED BY POSTER - Mal}

 

Videos like this are posted to make people who dont like a particular animal to feel good about it.

Think it over. While you do that, I will be busting you.

Edited August 25, 2010 by Afromojo

[Marblehead]

Evil people come in all shapes and sizes. And you know what? You never really know who is evil and who is not because people play games so well.

 

Peace & Love!

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

What is the point of posting this? Do we need more of this in our consciousness? Do you even need to post the video, Afromojo? Wouldn't the words 'DOG BEATEN' serve the same effect, which is...what? Animal cruelty happens every day.It is deplorable. Lose the videos, please. Why do I need to watch this before I go to work? (I didn't watch it BTW, what for?) Is anybody here going to argue that it's a good thing?

 

What's next? Somebody, please post a vid of naked women crushing kittens with their stillettoes! We all need to put that into our consciousness!

 

 

 

MODERATOR: PLEASE MOVE THIS TO 'OFF TOPIC'. I FIND THE VIDEO OBJECTIONABLE. THIS IS NOT TAOIST DISCUSSION.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have a nice day !

Edited August 24, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Mal]

(Why do people seem to think typing in CAPS will attract a moderators attention - ok so I just happened to be reading the thread)

 

Anyhow, It's probably as on topic as the cat thread, I guess. I didn't watch the video either and no encouraging people to post "Squish" videos either

 

edit: although I did go back and download that linked file Man that's not cool. I feel dirty even hosting that link here. Disgusting example of animal cruelty.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Thanks.

Edited August 24, 2010 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[Mal]

Ok, it's after midnight here man...

 

p.s. reports work much better than caps

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Reported. My caps were a way of making my point, obnoxiously.

[NorthWide]

Afro buddy... I cant believe you posted this. Did you take a mean pill or something? What pissed you off so bad?

[Afromojo]

I was just really angry about it. It was out of hand.

[Gerard]

That's the karma of the dog.

 

Human beings are also treated that way and even worse, same as animals and all sentient beings. That's the nature of existence.

 

You can't change that and it is impermanent anyway.

 

Please try to remain neutral to these sort of events because there is nothing you can do about it.

[Marblehead]

Okay Y'all.

 

I feel a need to come to the defense of Afromojo here.

 

The opening post is (was) a valid post.

 

It is a video of reality. A perfect picture of how some people are toward other living beings.

 

It is my opinion that we should be very aware that there are people who do these thing. And I agree that we cannot change them (those who do evil) and they will continue to do what they do.

 

It is, however, important that we know things like this happen on a regular basis and that these things happen all over the world and what was happening to the dog is no different from what is happening to many people around the world.

 

So, if we are aware of such realities we can at least be alert for indicators of such kinds of evil action and prevent them from happening to us.

 

There are many women who are abused much worse than that dog was being abused.

 

It is my opinion that that man in the video should be treated exactly like he was treating the dog. Crime and Punishment!

 

Peace & Love!

Edited August 27, 2010 by Marblehead

[thelerner]

That's the karma of the dog.

 

Human beings are also treated that way and even worse, same as animals and all sentient beings. That's the nature of existence.

 

You can't change that and it is impermanent anyway.

 

Please try to remain neutral to these sort of events because there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Respectfully, I understand where you're coming from but I think one should remain centered, but not neutral. One should have some level of emotional control, but not be a robot. Lastly I hate the Karma of the dog argument. IMO many horrors done in Buddhists countries have been swept under the rug because of the 'its just their karma' reasoning.. Impermanace..just because we're all dead in the long run doesn't mean we should turn a deaf ear about those killing others.

 

It feels like there's nothing we can do. Matter of fact its human nature to get angry, unleash pent up anger, hatred, prejudice. Or it can remind us to Do something.. pet a dog, smile at a child, every kindness we do is a bit of positive energy that moves on..maybe..

[Marblehead]

Or it can remind us to Do something.. pet a dog, smile at a child, every kindness we do is a bit of positive energy that moves on..maybe..

 

Amen! to that!!!

 

Repetition is an excellent teacher.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

It is my opinion that that man in the video should be treated exactly like he was treating the dog. Crime and Punishment!

If this helps anybody, then you, not him. It is a romantic idea that people who experience the same hardship that they put others into will gain a sense of empathy from that. People are way too good at justification and perceptive ignorance.

If the guy in the video was treated like he treated the dog, maybe in the future, he would be even crueler to dogs. Because there are inner demons at work, or darkness or whatever you wish to call it, but by answering this with violence against him, these demons will be fed. And consider that there might be irony within, in case the inner demons that made him beat the dog came there because violence was done unto him once.

[Marblehead]

If this helps anybody, then you, not him. It is a romantic idea that people who experience the same hardship that they put others into will gain a sense of empathy from that. People are way too good at justification and perceptive ignorance.

If the guy in the video was treated like he treated the dog, maybe in the future, he would be even crueler to dogs. Because there are inner demons at work, or darkness or whatever you wish to call it, but by answering this with violence against him, these demons will be fed. And consider that there might be irony within, in case the inner demons that made him beat the dog came there because violence was done unto him once.

 

Nope. I don't buy it. First, he intentionally and willinhgly did something that I and most other people think is discusting. There are no demons inside him. He has hate inside. Maybe punishment wouldn't help him. But I still think that if he were treated the way he treated the dog he would have second thoughts before doing it again.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

There are no demons inside him. He has hate inside.

That's what I meant. Hate originates from a complex.

 

But I still think that if he were treated the way he treated the dog he would have second thoughts before doing it again.

That depends so much on the surrounding conditions. Please explain in more detail WHY he would have second thought. When did it ever happen that hate was defeated by punishment? It is an emotional drive. Exactly this problem has been discussed a lot in regards to, for example, sexual offenders and scaringly hard punishment. Raising a penalty works with people who can rationally weigh odds against each other.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Hardyg

[DalTheJigsaw123]

{WARNING this link is quite disturbing I only put it back as I don't like to edit other peoples posts, still I don't recommend downloading this EDIT: LINK REMOVED BY POSTER - Mal}

 

Videos like this are posted to make people who dont like a particular animal to feel good about it.

Think it over. While you do that, I will be busting you.

 

Especially because I have a dog....

But in general this stuff is out there...

Trying not to feed it into my consciousness!

[Marblehead]

That depends so much on the surrounding conditions. Please explain in more detail WHY he would have second thought. When did it ever happen that hate was defeated by punishment? It is an emotional drive. Exactly this problem has been discussed a lot in regards to, for example, sexual offenders and scaringly hard punishment. Raising a penalty works with people who can rationally weigh odds against each other.

 

My opinion there is based on what I remember from the reading of B F Skinner's theory of conditioning from many years ago. Included in my opinion base is the little I remember of "Crime and Punishment".

 

I have always been a believer that the punishment should mirror as closely as possible the crime. "See how it feels?"

 

Raising a penalty works with people who can rationally weigh odds against each other.

 

And the others should be put somewhere where they can no long harm others. Yes, I also support capital punishment. There, that's out of the way.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

Conditioning can be an arduous process especially when emotional drives are involved. Then it doesn't solve the problem, but adds to it.

 

When there are some people who mistreat dogs and put it on youtube and 'the authority' begins to smack them every time they beat a dog (what people might call conditioning), after some time you might get a secret order ritualistically torturing and killing dogs in hidden basements.

[Marblehead]

Conditioning can be an arduous process especially when emotional drives are involved. Then it doesn't solve the problem, but adds to it.

 

When there are some people who mistreat dogs and put it on youtube and 'the authority' begins to smack them every time they beat a dog (what people might call conditioning), after some time you might get a secret order ritualistically torturing and killing dogs in hidden basements.

 

Ah!, all the wonderful reasons why we shouldn't try to make our fellow man behave in at least the most minimal acceptable limits of the society.

 

Conditioning works! Just look at all the non-human trained animals man has trained to do unnatural things. So if an animals can be trained to do unnatural things why would you think that a human couldn't be trained to do things that are natural within his/her society.

 

But I do agree, conditioning does take time. This is the reason there are so many prisons in the United States. Nobody has the time to training the misbehaved so we just put them somewhere where they can't hurt anyone for a while then they are released and continue to do the same things they were first locked up for.

 

And if they create these secret orders and are found out they should be punished to the maximum extent of the law. Maybe even exceptions can be made and the can be publically stoned to death. (There are still some cultures that do this, you know.)

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

And if they create these secret orders and are found out they should be punished to the maximum extent of the law. Maybe even exceptions can be made and the can be publically stoned to death. (There are still some cultures that do this, you know.)

This would bring the spiral of violence on an even higher level. This thinking of yours is worth thorough examination, especially in regards to 'spiritual aspirations' (in lack of a better word - you know what I mean).

Exactly this kind of thinking dominates our violent and bellicose poilitics, society, civilization, whatever. First we apply violence because of an inability or unwillingness to heal a situation, then we condemn the results of this violence and try to subdue it with more violence. *

At some point this has to stop. People who can influence problematic situations need to have the inner strength not to apply a law&order thinking. (From my experience, compassion is greatly strenghtened by deep understanding, e.g. about psychological mechanisms in people.)

For that, you should imagine what chain of events would make YOU adopt the habit of treating dogs horribly, maybe even enjoying it. And if you say, you never would ... you're wrong. That's the point to understand. It all depends.

 

*) Recently at a presentation, a Prof. Dr. Dr. hc. and international business and political consultant (!) talked about the Taliban problem, how they have to be defeated. I said that it would be wise to examine how they came about in the first place (funded, supported, trained by the CIA) and draw conclusions from that, and he replied with a strong opinion that poking around in history is of no use.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Hardyg

[Marblehead]

This would bring the spiral of violence on an even higher level. This thinking of yours is worth thorough examination, especially in regards to 'spiritual aspirations' (in lack of a better word - you know what I mean).

Exactly this kind of thinking dominates our violent and bellicose poilitics, society, civilization, whatever. First we apply violence because of an inability or unwillingness to heal a situation, then we condemn the results of this violence and try to subdue it with more violence.

At some point this has to stop. People who can influence problematic situations need to have the inner strength not to apply a law&order thinking. (From my experience, compassion is greatly strenghtened by deep understanding, e.g. about psychological mechanisms in people.)

For that, you should imagine what chain of events would make YOU adopt the habit of treating dogs horribly, maybe even enjoying it. And if you say, you never would ... you're wrong. That's the point to understand. It all depends.

 

Okay. Except for your last paragraph I agree with you. Violence begets violence. But if you look at the world today violence (including threats of violence, laws) is the primary means for keeping people of a society in line.

 

We, the world, spend little resources on rehab. It is too time consuming and costly. The people ask, "Why should I have to pay higher taxes just because some idiot can't follow the rules?"

 

Now, no, I would not intentionally harm a dog. If the dog threatened me and was in a position to do me harm then, yes, I would prevent it from doing so with whatever means I had available to me. But no, I would not enjoy it.

 

I do not enjoy being rude to people when I have had to resort to that. But chances are they gave me cause to be rude.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

We, the world, spend little resources on rehab. It is too time consuming and costly.

Another of those myths. Not in a direct sense maybe, but if this approach was followed, consequential costs would plummet. I mean, look at all the spendings for wars, policing, mental asylums and any other form of keeping people 'in line' by repression. Now say again that a rehab approach would be too costly. It's just people who created a bad world trying to convince us that a better world is not possible, to protect their own precious creation and reality based on their convictions.

 

Here, this clip might be inspiring:

http://www.beyondbelieffilm.org/beyondbeliefclips.html

"Having faith in generosity rather than safety and security"

(I also recommend the other ones, especially Jan Chozen Bays & Hogen Bays, Marshall Rosenberg, Zalman Schachter-Shalomi and in parts Charles Moore, Matthew Fox)

 

Now, no, I would not intentionally harm a dog. If the dog threatened me and was in a position to do me harm then, yes, I would prevent it from doing so with whatever means I had available to me. But no, I would not enjoy it.

 

I do not enjoy being rude to people when I have had to resort to that. But chances are they gave me cause to be rude.

I didn't mean in your current state; That should have been apparent. But just imagine, theorize, be creative. Imaging unthinkable hardships coming unto you and how they would change you. Everybody has a breaking point. Beyond that point, anything goes.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Hardyg

[Marblehead]

Another of those myths. Not in a direct sense maybe, but if this approach was followed, consequential costs would plummet. I mean, look at all the spendings for wars, policing, mental asylums and any other form of keeping people 'in line' by repression. Now say again that a rehab approach would be too costly. It's just people who created a bad world trying to convince us that a better world is not possible, to protect their own precious creation and reality based on their convictions.

 

I am unable to present proper feedback to this because I do not have the facts and data needed to make a statement of any knid. Up to this poiint I was able to express my opinion. Here I cannot.

 

However, I do agree that war is a totaly waste of resources. But then, when someone has an AK-47 pointed at your chest there is little opportunity to talk about compassion and love.

 

Here, this clip might be inspiring:

http://www.beyondbelieffilm.org/beyondbeliefclips.html

"Having faith in generosity rather than safety and security"

 

Yes, that is very philosophically sound. He used Lao Tzu's words in the presentation. And in a perfect world this would be perfect. Regretfully, we do not have a perfect world. So we must act imperfectly.

 

I didn't mean in your current state; That should have been apparent. But just imagine, theorize, be creative. Imaging unthinkable hardships coming unto you and how they would change you. Everybody has a breaking point. Beyond that point, anything goes.

 

I cannot imagine that. Sorry. I used to love fishing but after I started keeping fish in my pond I didn't have the heart to kill fish when I spend so much time trying to keep fish alive.

 

Oh!, sure, I have a breaking point. About once every five years someone will take me there. What a disgusting state that is! And I will agree, regarding my survival, anything goes. There is an exception: if I willingly put myself in harm's way for the purpose of protecting someone else. In such a case I have nulified the survival instinct.

 

Peace & Love!

[Owledge]

I am unable to present proper feedback to this because I do not have the facts and data needed to make a statement of any knid. Up to this poiint I was able to express my opinion. Here I cannot.

In a positive way, you unintentionally made me laugh here, thanks! The way your orthography goes off-balance like a computer is on the brink of overloading, considering the task at hand. Comedy by accident.

 

However, I do agree that war is a totaly waste of resources. But then, when someone has an AK-47 pointed at your chest there is little opportunity to talk about compassion and love.

Yes, in situations like those we should try to react with the least force possible that is sufficient to solve the problem. And if we panic and eventually put some new holes in him, we're not to blame as long as we try to do better next time.

 

I cannot imagine that. Sorry. I used to love fishing but after I started keeping fish in my pond I didn't have the heart to kill fish when I spend so much time trying to keep fish alive.

I wrote an essay about that a few years ago, claiming that what matters in dealing with fish is to try and not hurt others' feelings. Having an emotional connection to fish because one keeps them as pets is a personal thing. One shouldn't derive from it that it's evil to kill fish, and the others shouldn't derive from it that it's stupid to take food as pets.

 

And I will agree, regarding my survival, anything goes. There is an exception: if I willingly put myself in harm's way for the purpose of protecting someone else. In such a case I have nulified the survival instinct.

This is actually a highly interesting topic. I've read about this somewhere, can't remember where or when. The fact that the evolution-based survival instinct is not the most powerful drive, but that one can decide to sacrifice the own life in order to save another, maybe even of a stranger, could be seen as the power of compassion and love, of the drive of connectedness. Interestingly I have never seen creationists use this most impressive competitior to the 'ordinary evolution-based science'. I wonder why. Maybe too much agenda involved, and too little spirituality.

It is like a kind of divine survival instinct. Like when one has developed enough compassion, one is aware of the 'light/good/love' and cares for its survival, reducing the physical body to a thing not crucial to this.

When I read about this view, I was really impressed by its beauty.