Beyond Good and Evil

[The Observer]

Hi GIH,

 

Excellent post above!

 

I especially like this:

 

What's important is to realize that because we are alive, our morals must be alive also. Living beings cannot abide by dead, unliving morals. This means all dogmatic moralities hurt us, because we grow, but dogmas do not. We are not static, but dogmas are. Dogmas are contrary to life, and I think that's what the Daoists noticed more than anything. So it's less about good and evil and more about inflexible unbending dogmatic mindsets.

 

Marble, Gold's post (great, great post btw Goldisheavy) ties in well with that other thread about the TTC I posted in. Let us not be fettered to static belief systems, lest the ever flowing Dao sweep us away with it.

[Marblehead]

Marble, Gold's post (great, great post btw Goldisheavy) ties in well with that other thread about the TTC I posted in. Let us not be fettered to static belief systems, lest the ever flowing Dao sweep us away with it.

 

Exactly. I guess that is why I try, whenever given the opportunity, to mention that there are good thoughts is all belief systems. But, there are many directives that limit us in living our life to the fullest.

 

I think that this is one of the most beautiful things about Taoist Philosophy - there are no commandments! Our future actions will be determined by many, many different factors, some which we will not even be aware of, and we must remain flexible in order to deal with whatever life throws at us.

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Bumping this, by way of re-post:

 

The Way the World Is

 

When you awaken, when you understand, when you see, the world becomes right. We're always bothered by the problem of evil. There's a powerful story about a little boy walking along the bank of a river. He sees a crocodile who is trapped in a net. The crocodile says, "Would you have pity on me and release me? I may look ugly, but it isn't my fault, you know. I was made this way. But whatever my external appearance, I have a mother's heart. I came this morning in search of food for my young ones and got caught in this trap!"

 

So the boy says, "Ah, if I were to help you out of that trap, you'd grab me and kill me."

 

The crocodile asks, "Do you think I would do that to my benefactor and liberator?"

 

So the boy is persuaded to take the net off and the crocodile grabs him.

 

As he is being forced between the jaws of the crocodile, he says, "So this is what I get for my good actions." And the crocodile says, "Well, don't take it personally, son, this is the way the world is, this is the law of life."

 

The boy disputes this, so the crocodile says, "Do you want to ask someone if it isn't so?"

 

The boy sees a bird sitting on a branch and says, "Bird, is what the crocodile says right?" The bird says, "The crocodile is right. Look at me. I was coming home one day with food for my fledglings. Imagine my horror to see a snake crawling up the tree, making straight for my nest. I was totally helpless. It kept devouring my young ones, one after the other. I kept screaming and shouting, but it was useless. The crocodile is right, this is the law of life, this is the way the world is."

 

"See," says the crocodile. But the boy says, "Let me ask someone else." So the crocodile says, "Well, all right, go ahead."

 

There was an old donkey passing by on the bank of the river. "Donkey," says the boy, "this is what the crocodile says. Is the crocodile right?"

 

The donkey says, "The crocodile is quite right. Look at me. I've worked and slaved for my master all my life and he barely gave me enough to eat. Now that I'm old and useless, he has turned me loose, and here I am wandering in the jungle, waiting for some wild beast to pounce on me and put an end to my life. The crocodile is right, this is the law of life, this is the way the world is."

 

"See," says the crocodile. "Let's go!"

 

The boy says, "Give me one more chance, one last chance. Let me ask one other being. Remember how good I was to you?" So the crocodile says, "All right, your last chance."

 

The boy sees a rabbit passing by, and he says, "Rabbit, is the crocodile right?"

 

The rabbit sits on his haunches and says to the crocodile, "Did you say that to that boy? The crocodile says, "Yes, I did." "Wait a minute," says the rabbit. "We've got to discuss this." "Yes," says the crocodile. But the rabbit says, "How can we discuss it when you've got that boy in your mouth? Release him; he's got to take part in the discussion, too." The crocodile says, "You're a clever one, you are. The moment I release him, he'll run away." The rabbit says, "I thought you had more sense than that. If he attempted to run away, one slash of your tail would kill him."

 

"Fair enough," says the crocodile, and he released the boy. The moment the boy is released, the rabbit says, "Run!" And the boy runs and escapes. Then the rabbit says to the boy, "Don't you enjoy crocodile flesh? Wouldn't the people in your village like a good meal? You didn't really release that crocodile; most of his body is still caught in that net. Why don't you go to the village and bring everybody and have a banquet."

 

That's exactly what the boy does. He goes to the village and calls all the men folk. They come with their axes and staves and spears and kill the crocodile. The boy's dog comes, too, and when the dog sees the rabbit, he gives chase, catches hold of the rabbit, and throttles him. The boy comes on the scene too late, and as he watches the rabbit die, he says, "The crocodile was right, this is the way the world is, this is the law of life."

 

There is no explanation you can give that would explain away all the sufferings and evil and torture and destruction and hunger in the world! You'll never explain it. You can try gamely with your formulas, religious and otherwise, but you'll never explain it. Because life is a mystery, which means your thinking mind cannot make sense out of it. For that you've got to wake up and then you'll suddenly realize that reality is not problematic, you are the problem.

 

-Anthony De Mello

Edited March 19, 2011 by TheSongsofDistantEarth

[johndoe2012]

Edited December 11, 2011 by chris d

[RyanO]

Anthony De Mello

 

Big fan of this guy. His book on Awareness is FANTASTIC!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Awareness-Opportunities-Reality-Anthony-Mello/dp/0385249373

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

Big fan of this guy. His book on Awareness is FANTASTIC!

 

http://www.amazon.com/Awareness-Opportunities-Reality-Anthony-Mello/dp/0385249373

 

The quote above is from his book. Yes, he is fantastic.

[RyanO]

The quote above is from his book. Yes, he is fantastic.

 

Thought it ringed a bell

[Spectrum]

"I'm not afraid!" Luke

"oh you will be... You will Be" Yoda

 

becareful turning everything you touch to gold afterall you have to eat and drink

[Marblehead]

 

be careful turning everything you touch to gold afterall you have to eat and drink

 

Excellent reminder. (That thought could be carried into nearly all aspects of our life.)

[Birch]

The fable explains food-chain killing pretty well. Inter-species killing for food.

I don't see how it could possibly justify intra-species killing.

Oh yeah, just a reminder of where you are on the food chain folks.

IMO myths like this "are the problem".

However it does seem that our world is exactly this way.

[Ulises]

"Haiti," a Vodoun priest once told me, "will teach you that good and evil are one. We never confuse them. Nor do we keep them apart."

Wade Davis

[Jetsun]

If you examine things closely enough at the root of all action is the desire to be happy and avoid suffering, then it is difficult to say anything is evil as at the root there is this self compassionate wish, then all that stops that wish from being fulfilled is ignorance about the right path to take not an inherently evil nature.

[ralis]

This scene is great from "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil." You have do good as well as evil.

 

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEa1AwvtsAE&feature=related

[TheSongsofDistantEarth]

The fable explains food-chain killing pretty well. Inter-species killing for food.

I don't see how it could possibly justify intra-species killing.

Oh yeah, just a reminder of where you are on the food chain folks.

IMO myths like this "are the problem".

However it does seem that our world is exactly this way.

 

 

You read this literally???

What do you mean "Myths like this 'are the problem'?

Kate...I'm taken aback...could you elaborate?

[Birch]

You read this literally???

What do you mean "Myths like this 'are the problem'?

Kate...I'm taken aback...could you elaborate?

 

I read this mythologically, you know, a myth, a narrative about something else that is intended to show/teach/prescribe the listener something that (should?) directly apply to them in their current situation.

 

Another example in this line is the so-called "survival of the fittest" myth. Did Darwin actually coin that one? No, Herbert Spencer did but Darwin picked it back up again because he apparently agreed:

 

"I have called this principle, by which each slight variation, if useful, is preserved, by the term Natural Selection, in order to mark its relation to man's power of selection. But the expression often used by Mr. Herbert Spencer of the Survival of the Fittest is more accurate, and is sometimes equally convenient."

 

I gotta ask, "convenient for who?" I have a few ideas and they're not pleasant.

 

What I'm trying to get at is whenever we use myth, are we making sure it's something for everyone's benefit? Just ours? If not, whose? What about the planet? What about the other animals? Not for nothing we have brother and sister animals in some myths :-)

[Marblehead]

Hi All,

 

Just wanted to let Y'all know that I am reading this thread.

 

I think this:

 

I gotta ask, "convenient for who?" I have a few ideas and they're not pleasant.

 

is a fantastic question and worthy of discussion.