Physical Qigong

[Maddie]

I was reading meditationexpert.com and he seemed to imply that yoga asanas only made you flexible but did not do anything to your chi. Now I was kind of supprised to hear that because I had always been told that asanas and Qigong exercises / movements did work on your chi and meridians, not only on your flexibility. I know a yoga instructor and she said that sometimes people will have emotional reactions from doing various poses as an energy blockage is relased by the pose.

So my question is do the physical movemnts help your chi, and if so how so? If they do not then what is their purpose?

[Mattimo]

Nonsense. William Bodri seems to be under the delusion that he has the final say for all spiritual practices and that his way is the only way. Now, you might want to clarify what you think chi is because it really is a loaded word. However, anything that increases sensory awareness of where your body is in space and where one's own skeletal support is, is going to lead to a more relaxed sense of being and joy.

[Maddie]

Nonsense. William Bodri seems to be under the delusion that he has the final say for all spiritual practices and that his way is the only way. Now, you might want to clarify what you think chi is because it really is a loaded word. However, anything that increases sensory awareness of where your body is in space and where one's own skeletal support is, is going to lead to a more relaxed sense of being and joy.

 

Well yea thats what I thought too lol, but what I was reading what he said I was like "um thats contrary to everything I've read from many masters". Maybe he is of that opinion because he is a Zen guy, and they seem to really emphasize the mind to the exclusion of the body. But then again thats why Bodidharma developed MOVEMENTS for the Shaloin monks when he came there, cause they all just meditated all day and were in poor health, and they were Chan/Zen too hmmmm. I've heard it said that the reason the monks of Shaloin do kung fu (aside from it being used traditionally to defend themselvces from bandits/ or for tourists today) is because its a sort of moving meditation.

[metal dog]

There is a connection between the physical and energetic in most cases.

 

Hatha yoga and its postures tend to focus on the physical aspect of the body, but there is always a spill-over to the energetic system. They are not independent of one another as long as you are physically incarnated.

 

 

It is considered that about 75% of energetic acu-meridians and points have a correspondence to physical myo-fascial (muscle and connective tissue) structures in the body. It is also suggested that the myofascia has crystalline structures within its matrix that can be piezo-electric in function, thus showing that the physical has intermediaries leading into the electro-magnetic energies of the body.

 

Any opening of the physical structures and creating length and space v.s. compression caused by the constant pull or effect of gravity on your body is going to open up circulation both of physical blood-lymph and on an energetic level.

 

I find hatha yoga and the traditional athletic and fitness stretches that are derivative of it to have excellent benefits that are not provided to me by other methods. My body needs these often.

 

But the same with bonesetting and chiropractic. There are neuro-vascular reflex point maps used by chiropractors that have significant correspondence with acupuncture points and many times they are not just manipulating bones but chi flow by clearing obstructions.

 

One of my internal arts teachers commented that as much as 50% of your chi can be dictated by your diet alone not even considering your specific chi methods or practices.

Edited August 26, 2010 by metal dog

[Maddie]

There is a connection between the physical and energetic in most cases.

 

Hatha yoga and its postures tend to focus on the physical aspect of the body, but there is always a spill-over to the energetic system. They are not independent of one another as long as you are physically incarnated.

 

 

It is considered that about 75% of energetic acu-meridians and points have a correspondence to physical myo-fascial (muscle and connective tissue) structures in the body. It is also suggested that the myofascia has crystalline structures within its matrix that can be piezo-electric in function, thus showing that the physical has intermediaries leading into the electro-magnetic energies of the body.

 

Any opening of the physical structures and creating length and space v.s. compression caused by the constant pull or effect of gravity on your body is going to open up circulation both of physical blood-lymph and on an energetic level.

 

 

Interesting reply. Actually one of the things that I first found facinating about Qigong was that it was possible to acess the energetic through the physical, which was totally a new concept for me as in the past I was in a fundamentalist christian group that totally denied the body, and put all emphasis on mind/spirit ect..

[time to change]

Interesting reply. Actually one of the things that I first found facinating about Qigong was that it was possible to acess the energetic through the physical, which was totally a new concept for me as in the past I was in a fundamentalist christian group that totally denied the body, and put all emphasis on mind/spirit ect..

i myself have found that ashtanga yoga opens the chaneels makes you more flexible and qigong is standing meditation but astanga yoga you streath and you breath prana which are two different things so you see yoga is not meant for just flexibility is to unite mind body and spirit. i found that doind yoga can help your meditation practice and helps with full lotus

[Maddie]

i myself have found that ashtanga yoga opens the chaneels makes you more flexible and qigong is standing meditation but astanga yoga you streath and you breath prana which are two different things so you see yoga is not meant for just flexibility is to unite mind body and spirit. i found that doind yoga can help your meditation practice and helps with full lotus

 

I can definately see how yoga would help full lotus, because I have been doing full lotus for almost two weeks now and its quite painful. Interestingly enough its easiest for me to do full lotus after karate, which of course involves a lot of stretching and movement of the hip and knee joints. Btw there is more to qigong than only standing meditation, lots of moving and streching as well ;-). But yea uniting body and spirit is definately what I am after, esepcially after so long coming from a tradition that separated them.

[Guest sykkelpump]

I was reading meditationexpert.com and he seemed to imply that yoga asanas only made you flexible but did not do anything to your chi. Now I was kind of supprised to hear that because I had always been told that asanas and Qigong exercises / movements did work on your chi and meridians, not only on your flexibility. I know a yoga instructor and she said that sometimes people will have emotional reactions from doing various poses as an energy blockage is relased by the pose.

So my question is do the physical movemnts help your chi, and if so how so? If they do not then what is their purpose?

 

 

as far as I know Bodri and master Nan says qi gong is low level compared to emptiness meditation.that is not the same as it doesnt do anything to your chi.and that is also my opinion after many many years of both qi gong and meditation

[time to change]

as far as I know Bodri and master Nan says qi gong is low level compared to emptiness meditation.that is not the same as it doesnt do anything to your chi.and that is also my opinion after many many years of both qi gong and meditation

i came across yin yoga search it is part of tao

[Guest sykkelpump]

i came across yin yoga search it is part of tao

 

 

What are you trying to say?

[metal dog]

From what I know of the subject you have many "bodies".

I think from memory that many Taoists will concede there are eight bodies.

Some systems differ and state there are twelve bodies or even more than this, but advanced perceptions are necessary to see beyond certain levels of existence particularly beyond twelve.

 

Here is an example of a system of belief that works with seven bodies-planes and depending on the system the nomenclature can also differ.

 

1st material/physical

2nd plane of forces (forces of nature/elementals, heat, electricity, light, gravity, kinetic energy, atomic forces)

3rd astral

4th mental

 

The following 3 higher planes are more difficult to comprehend when existing on lower 4 planes. The 4 lower planes is where a lot of the physical business of life takes place and in more "real time".

5th-6th-7th (they each have their own names, just not mentioned here)

 

It is from my experience that much chi energy work is contained withing the first couple levels closer to the densest physical level. The are not independent of one another concerning levels, but interpenetrating as a holistic system. So when one is said to be "higher", we may thing of it as "subtler" and further removed from using our usual dominant physical senses to perceive it or the voluntary parts of our nervous system to sense or have influence over it and, may perhaps require more practice to access and influence under the will.

 

One of the most profound and life-changing things I have ever done was to go to a skilled and conscientious Rolfer and have twelve sessions of structural integration. This type of bodywork or its spinoffs (SOMA Neuromuscular Integration by Bill Williams, CORE by George Kusalaous, Erik Dalton Method, Kins Loree Method, Michael Shea Method). There are many derivatives out there now, but my best experience was with the first branch off group from Rolfing which was a SOMA practitioner. But it was the therapist that gave the work its quality, not necessarily her method. When you get someone who can do a good postural and functional analysis and individualize the method for your own transformation it can be one of the greatest things you can do for yourself. Used with some good chiropractic methods and hatha yoga, the three modalities reinforce each other in remarkable ways. (I personally did spirometer tests of my vital capacity and after twelve sessions of this type of bodywork I increased by forced inhale capacity 300%...this was when I was sixteen and the ribcage is much more subject to increased expansion with this work at a younger age because you have not fully matured and the body is more flexible. But a three times increase in breathing did wonders for my high school tennis and swimming sports.)

 

This type of structural work focuses on the connective tissue or fascia of the body. It is the fascia that makes up the ground substance of the body and gives it support, not the bony skeleton or the muscles. It is fibrous and can have a tensile strength of 2000 pounds per square inch. It is tough, but also and should be, an elastic flexible and pliable medium. The more it gets rigid, thickens and adheres or glues down to itself, the more the body must work to hold itself up and to initiate movements. Energy becomes wasted when fascial sheaths glue down and don't slide or work independently of one another. It is the hydrogen bonds of this tissue that are broken up when deep tissue pressure is applied or heat is applied that creates softening and lengthening of this tissue. Its manipulation and the new positioning of the body's seemingly habitual posture into a natural and more upright stance coupled with increased efficiency in movement is quite profound. But a good therapist is essential, I have had some that I have not been so pleased with. Hatha yoga maintains the changes in the fascia from the structural integration over time. The body changes and repositions toward better alignment even up to two years after your last official session. The body takes time to realize and achieve its true verticalness and equipose within the field of gravity.

 

After this kind of work I have found that John Upledger's CranioSacral Therapy system is a great way to further evolve oneself with these therapeutic modalities. This one concentrates more internally working with the Cranial Sacral Primary Respiratory Mechanism. The connections of this true core body system with those of the internal energy and Taoist schools of thought are too numerous and profound to list here. But let's just say that this cerebrospinal system and the nervous systems of the body are deeply affected and improved with a skilled practitioner in this modality.

 

In this couch potato world...any form of exercise done wisely is going to influence the chi.

 

But I do believe that many systems do influence the higher levels of the energy bodies each one working on the higher or more subtler levels...even leading into the spiritual.

 

Just some considerations to ponder, as I do everyday about this stuff and just can never shut off my mercurial mind over such matters. Hope this stimulates an Aha moment.

[Maddie]

as far as I know Bodri and master Nan says qi gong is low level compared to emptiness meditation.that is not the same as it doesnt do anything to your chi.and that is also my opinion after many many years of both qi gong and meditation

 

Here is the article.

______________________________________________________

"Yoga Yes, Yoga No" -- Physical Asanas Are Not Enough Because You Need to Accomplish Chi Stage Kung-Fu and Higher

 

 

After trying to get them interested for years, my friends are all of a sudden "Hot on Yoga." Great! Fantastic!

 

Is yoga good for you?

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

Should you practice it?

 

Yes, of course -- simple stretching, and particularly yogic stretching is great for keeping in shape, exercising, and eliminating back pain. In fact it's been proven to help eliminate back pain!

 

Can it help you get the Tao?

 

Well, now we have a problem. I have never seen or heard of anyone getting the Tao because of yoga. From yoga with breath practices and meditation, or from meditation and yoga, but not just from yoga alone. Not just from physical stretching.

 

You see, the physical part of yoga has to do just with the physical body. It is a type of spiritual practice only when you combine it with meditation but without that meditative component, it's just stretching, like Pilates. In fact, I even think it's better than Tai chi, often called yoga in motion, because if you have restrictions in your muscles or movements, you're always going to do the forms of Tai chi or other martial arts incorrectly, yet with yoga done properly you'll open up those restrictions and get rid of them. With martial arts, if the muscles are too tight you can just keep repeating the same mistake over and over again.To me, yoga is superior than many martial arts unless your limbs are already open and limber.

 

I've seen many yoga and yogic breathing instructors over the years and you know what -- no chi!

 

That's right, I've seen 20-year olds from India and people who have practiced yoga extensively for 30 or even 40 years and if they didn't meditate then they had no cultivation chi whatsoever, no matter how much yoga they practiced. In fact, I met one man who spent nearly two celibate years in a special Indian monastery where they only teach advanced yogic pranayama breathing practices and at the end of that period he could do all sorts of breathing practices, and move his chest muscles in all sorts of amazing ways, but he had some of the dirtiest chi we had ever seen.

 

Same with Indian yoga instructors who don't meditate! Yoga is not going to clear you of dirty chi.

 

You see, there's nothing wrong with yoga, but don't think it's enough if you want to spiritually cultivate. And don't read my message here incorrectly. If you want spiritual progress, then no matter how you look at it it comes down to meditation practice. The requirement for spiritual progress is, first and foremost, meditation.

The same goes for pranayama breathing exercises and even qi-gong. They're useless without the practice of freeing yourself of thoughts, which is meditation. That's the only way you learn to let go of the artificial things that stand in the way of the Godhead, and that's the only way you make spiritual progress. Sure yoga makes you softer and more limber and maybe even calmer, but without cultivating samadhi so what? Don't call it spiritual progress.

 

Now don't take this the wrong way, mind you. Yoga is great, it's wonderful, but it isn't enough. That's the message. Even in China the martial arts teachers found out that their moving practice wasn't enough for reaching the Tao. They next had to go to breathing practices, then internal energy practices (chi cultivation), and then finally to mind practices. They always ended up spending all their time in meditation, but after they had laid their foundation with yogic practice. Yet don't use THAT as an excuse to practice for 5, 10 or even 30 years without ever getting started at meditation.

 

Frankly, it all comes down to the mind.

 

Well, what about bodywork?

 

Bodywork is a way to get yoga stretching results in warp speed time. For instance, years ago one body worker friend of mine was visited by a famous Indian yoga master who practiced for several hours a day. He came to be Rolf ed (there are much better alternatives now) and when my friend said there was no reason to come because she felt there was nothing to do for him, he replied, "You don't understand, every session with deep bodywork is like doing a year of yoga practice, that's how effective it is."

 

So yes you can get lots of the benefits of yoga through bodywork sessions, but even then, body workers tell me that the results of their efforts will disappear after 6-9 months if you don't keep the released areas open and stretched ... or unless you meditate. As one body worker said when he worked on my teacher, "Gosh, his tissues are as soft as cotton" and yet because of his martial arts training, he could also make his muscles as strong as steel at will.

 

So we're back to yoga once again.

 

Folks, take up yoga. It's wonderful. It's good for you, BUT IT'S NOT ENOUGH. As I said, every single yoga teacher and master I've ever seen had absolutely no chi -- just a flexible body. If you really want to tread the pathway to Tao and spiritual progress, do the yoga practice for your body, for your health, for your sanity but there's no way you can make progress without your everyday hourly meditation practice.

 

Get to work!

 

______________________________________________________________________________________

 

The above article was the one from meditation expert that I referenced. He is not saying that yoga is not good for you, but he does seem to imply that its only for the physical body, and does nothing for chi (which only meditation works on). But I don't think I agree with his conclusion.

Edited August 27, 2010 by dmattwads

[LBDaoist]

One of the most important lessons that I continue to dwell upon when I practice qigong has been that "where the mind goes, qi flows". An adjunct to that is that the mind cannot force qi movement, but it can guide it. With that in mind, it seems very important to engage an active imagination (based upon proper principles) when practicing qigong. For me a very helpful image has been that of a tree. While practicing qigong (and also tai chi, bagua and kung fu stance training), it has been helpful to imagine roots growing from the bottom of my feet into the ground. When I inhale, I draw energy up through the roots. When I exhale, I project energy out through the palms.

 

Small cycle training is a very important part of qigong training. For most of us here in the Western world who spend long periods sitting down, the lower cavity is the most difficult to open. Physical motions like qigong help the muscles become stronger and more flexible.

 

I saw the mention of meditation versus qigong. I think it really depends on where one is in their practice. In the beginning, in the middle, and even at the end, the motions are important. Until a person practices breathing exercises and studies under another who has developed their own qi flow, all of the meditation in the world will do them no good because their mind has not yet become aware of what qi flow is. (Generally... I'm sure there are those one person in a million people who manage to intuit it on their own. For the rest of us, there are well trodden paths that we can follow, and masters who understand that a key tenant of the practice is to help others). I fully believe in the possibility of circulating qi with nothing more than breathing and the mind, as done while meditating. However it seems highly unlikely that a person can begin their training at that stage. Therefore the motions are very key.

 

The motions need to be rooted in sound principle. The purpose of qigong is to circulate the qi. The qi can be lead by the mind. A good understanding of the meridians will help with the imagination. Lacking that, the simple practice of breathing in through the feet and exhaling through the palms will help.

[LBDaoist]

The above article was the one from meditation expert that I referenced. He is not saying that yoga is not good for you, but he does seem to imply that its only for the physical body, and does nothing for chi (which only meditation works on). But I don't think I agree with his conclusion.

 

I find the conclusion dubious as well. It is impossible to be alive and not have qi. Qi is life force. Without a person will not be alive. Now if the guy were to have said, "Without still meditation practice, the qi will have a difficult time condensing." I would agree with him. But to make a blanket statement like, "EVERY yogi I've meet has no qi." shows a profound misunderstanding of qi.

[markern]

More or less strictly doing asana gave me strong sensations of chi and the ability to sense several meridians.

 

My naturally yogically gifted best friend has had intense spiritual experiences from doing a lot of asana and only a little bit of irregular meditation.

 

That said I believe the real juice is in meditation for the most part.

[Maddie]

Isn't saying that physical motions have not affect on your chi, like saying the physical motion of a generator has no effect on electromagnetic fields? lol

[Mattimo]

Bodri is full of shit. Moreover, who said yoga is just stretching? True, most modern perversions of yoga and the weekend-trenders' may perceive yoga as stretching and so practice it with that level of awareness. However, I believe one can extract more out of the practice. I recall reading a very eloquently written post about what yoga means to one member on the AYP site. He said that yoga was like a puzzle for your mind/body which forced him to relax into a greater sense of being. One could also say that yoga is about neuromuscular organization. i.e. everyone as the capability of touching their hands to the ground while standing right now; however, certain organizational patterns and inhibitions within their brain may prevent them from accomplishing the so-called feat unless they learn novel ways to reorganize themselves. Therefore, yoga is also synonymous with learning. By working on movement/posture/organization one is directly influencing the brain and increasing the level of choice for physical action in any direction. Life is movement, if we can't move that well we might feel old or inadequate. Therefore, by increasing one's ability to move with ease and grace we are directly influencing all aspects of our life. Moreover, even from a biological perspective the movement/organizational center of the brain touches areas of the brain devoted to thought, feeling, etc. But movement is tangible, it is observable; if one has an inability to move a certain way one can directly perceive that. In working to increase freedom of movement, one is becoming a fuller human being, governed by choice and spontaneity...

 

So you see, Bodri is delusional.

[WallaMike]

There is a connection between the physical and energetic in most cases.

 

Hatha yoga and its postures tend to focus on the physical aspect of the body, but there is always a spill-over to the energetic system. They are not independent of one another as long as you are physically incarnated.

 

 

It is considered that about 75% of energetic acu-meridians and points have a correspondence to physical myo-fascial (muscle and connective tissue) structures in the body. It is also suggested that the myofascia has crystalline structures within its matrix that can be piezo-electric in function, thus showing that the physical has intermediaries leading into the electro-magnetic energies of the body.

 

Any opening of the physical structures and creating length and space v.s. compression caused by the constant pull or effect of gravity on your body is going to open up circulation both of physical blood-lymph and on an energetic level.

 

I find hatha yoga and the traditional athletic and fitness stretches that are derivative of it to have excellent benefits that are not provided to me by other methods. My body needs these often.

 

But the same with bonesetting and chiropractic. There are neuro-vascular reflex point maps used by chiropractors that have significant correspondence with acupuncture points and many times they are not just manipulating bones but chi flow by clearing obstructions.

 

One of my internal arts teachers commented that as much as 50% of your chi can be dictated by your diet alone not even considering your specific chi methods or practices.

 

 

I think Metal Dog has the right perspective to help best accurately answer this question. It really isn't a yes/no type of answer, it's a "Well, it depends" type of answer.

 

I did hatha yoga, which is the mostly physical (asanas) part of the Raja Yoga I did for many years, and at one time was a hatha yoga instructor and even taught it to some students at a medical school in Texas for a short time. I learned it because I thought it would help me learn to move my prana/chi. I was disappointed that it did not seem to help me in this way. However, in retrospect, it was more my fault and not that of the Hatha Yoga, plus I did not have any teachers that taught that aspect of yoga. I'm still looking for a book that denotes the specific flow of prana/chi during the different asanas, so if anyone knows of one, please let me know.

 

On the other hand, during that time, I did vigourous meditations twice a day and had several Kundalini types of experiences. I suspect the hatha yoga helped me get to the point physically so that I could actually have this experience, so think the two are tied together.

 

 

Thus ends my "well it depends" response, more eloquently explained by Metal Dog. Arf!

[markern]

I think Metal Dog has the right perspective to help best accurately answer this question. It really isn't a yes/no type of answer, it's a "Well, it depends" type of answer.

 

I did hatha yoga, which is the mostly physical (asanas) part of the Raja Yoga I did for many years, and at one time was a hatha yoga instructor and even taught it to some students at a medical school in Texas for a short time. I learned it because I thought it would help me learn to move my prana/chi. I was disappointed that it did not seem to help me in this way. However, in retrospect, it was more my fault and not that of the Hatha Yoga, plus I did not have any teachers that taught that aspect of yoga. I'm still looking for a book that denotes the specific flow of prana/chi during the different asanas, so if anyone knows of one, please let me know.

 

On the other hand, during that time, I did vigourous meditations twice a day and had several Kundalini types of experiences. I suspect the hatha yoga helped me get to the point physically so that I could actually have this experience, so think the two are tied together.

 

 

Thus ends my "well it depends" response, more eloquently explained by Metal Dog. Arf!

 

It seems to me that qigong and tai chi is much much better at getting you in contact with chi and then helping you move it.

[metal dog]

but even then, body workers tell me that the results of their efforts will disappear after 6-9 months if you don't keep the released areas open and stretched ... or unless you meditate.

 

It is true that some people will begin to revert back to old patterns unless they change to new ones.

But the work, once introduced into the body, takes it on a new course nonetheless and these changes continue up to two years even after your last bodywork session. So it just does not "disappear", but therapists do stress how old patterns are returned to and how that can be a hinderance. One must work with faulty movement patterns and habits. I actually learned a new way to walk, new way to sit, new way to stand in the mirror and brush my teeth, things if done the old inefficient way would just begin to return my body to old compensatory habits. The work also does a lot to release holding patterns and tensions due to past physical and emotional traumas...sometimes these areas can be insidiously solidified into the body...and require time and more effort to resolve. Sometimes people don't like to necessarily let such things go.

 

I have also found the when people revert back to old patterns because they absolutely do nothing on there own to maintain the work or help it realize itself fully within their physique over time, that it is still much easier for them to begin to make changes to help this along and the results of their efforts, even though late in the game, are accelerated tremendously because of the bodywork they had.

 

Hatha Yoga and stretching are highly recommended as are many types of movement modalities to re-pattern and re-establish changes toward the vertical and balance. The work doesn't just end on the table your last session when you pay our bill. Sorry, but the martial forms and chi-gong do not do this like the deeper bodywork modalities and myofascial stretching like Hatha Yoga and movement therapies.

And vice versa in regards that for chi cultivation, then the internal energy practices are where you want to go. I see people practicing chi gong all the time who have extremely inefficient body posture and walking gait. It is comparing apples and oranges in many respects. But my how wonderful they would feel with that 2 inch forward head sitting squarely upon their necks and shoulders. Coming forward that much can make a ten pound head stress the musculature of the neck and shoulders like a fifty pound head, add a job with six hours a day in front of the computer and I wouldn't be a surprise if there weren't some complaints on the part of this individual.

 

I think to make it some type of comparison game or disprove one at the expense of the other as a mis-contextualization and quite ridiculous.

 

The fascia is a plastic medium and will conform to where you will it.

If you go back to the same habits that created your posture and movement in the first place, then of course it will begin to follow that pattern you set for it. And your mind patterns have much to do with that reverting back. But to say it disappears is not accurate at all...far from it. But, again, we are talking about body tissues with a tensile strength of up to 2000 lbs. per square inch which is like the strength of steel cable in many respects. And I can tell you that chi gong isn't going to affect that system for postural change and movement efficiency like this type of bodywork. In fact, this type of bodywork is in many ways superior to Hatha Yoga and stretching for improving posture and affecting the myofascial system. It is just that to maintain the work, which is really maintaining yourself against all postural insults and injuries, Hatha yoga and stretching is really the best you can do for this myofascial system by yourself for self-maintenance with no therapist assisted work being done at the present time. At this point, the concepts presented here exist whether chi-gong is a factor or not. But it isn't a matter of one's superiority over the other...you then miss the intent because you have some overly-subjective mis-applied comparative point to make.

 

Change is difficult. Most cannot see change through in many respects.

 

But, with thousands of case files and testimonials, I can tell you that this statement is not entirely true by stating the effects will disappear.

 

After my first sessions as a teenager, I always tried to get at least two good Rolfing sessions a year. The work was always less resisted by my body the more I received it. Sessions no longer brought any discomfort as a result of my own fascial restrictions. Fifteen years after that, I went back and received another ten sessions, and ten years after that I went to get another ten sessions. All by different therapists. But it wasn't because my body was reverting back, it was for training in learning the material myself.

 

Once I received my first ten sessions my body was changed, and may awareness of myself within it, were changed forever.

 

To now make a comparison as to why bodywork or Yoga does nothing for chi like chi gong is unnecessary for me.

 

I simply know the answers and relationships as to why all are necessary and how my being has translated them within my own body. Nothing more is needed for me...I am my walking testimonial...age 40...and everyone thinks I am 30. My body is fit, erect, balanced, moves nicely all because I take care of it in many ways.

 

Hatha yoga, stretching, light resistance training, moderate and consistent cardio, swimming, biking, internal energy, martial arts, dance, and I could go on and on. So what type of pattern is my body going to take on with all this bodywork and all this different type of movement compared to someone who received Rolfing thirty years ago and decided to spend most of their time sitting in a chair with a remote and doing nothing to move their body to its full potentials?...huge.

 

I do practice internal energy methods as well. I take all their benefits and blessings willingly upon myself for my own benefit. There is no form of loss.

 

(My work is done on this topic.)

Edited August 27, 2010 by metal dog

[gendao]

Bob Cooley's meridian stretching was developed when he discovered that contracting the muscles (or some might say placing his awareness in them) while he stretched them allowed them to stretch much easier. Later on, he noticed that this type of stretching started clearing his meridians too.

 

So, I think to make yoga work at clearing meridians, you have to make sure you keep your awareness on the meridians being stretched open by each asana. Whereas just doing the postures mindlessly probably won't do anything qi-wise.

Edited August 27, 2010 by vortex

[markern]

Bob Cooley's meridian stretching was developed when he discovered that contracting the muscles (or some might say placing his awareness in them) while he stretched them allowed them to stretch much easier. Later on, he noticed that this type of stretching started clearing his meridians too.

 

So, I think to make yoga work at clearing meridians, you have to make sure you keep your awareness on the meridians being stretched open by each asana. Whereas just doing the postures mindlessly probably won't do anything qi-wise.

 

 

I haven`t really understood the meridian stretching thing very well but it seems to me that in yoga one relaxes and brings awareness to the area being stretched and that is different from the meridian stretching where you also tense or activate the muscles together with relaxing them and bringing awareness. Right or not?

[Maddie]

quote from Drew Hempel----

"Yeah at first you do standing active exercises at a 3 to 1 ratio to the sitting passive exercises. The standing active exercises build up your jing energy but then the "small universe" or "microcosmic orbit" exercise converts the jing to chi. When the chi builds up then you have strong electromagnetic fields going throughout the body and so flexibility returns from the chi energy. That's why it's more important to study the alchemy dynamics of building up jing, purifying it into chi. Then when the chi is strong enough it turns into shen for the third eye opening energy."

 

Lately I have been doing a lot of sitting stuff, because emotional/sexual issues were my top priority to fix, and I have found that the meditative types of qigong more directly fix this. With that being said, I have found myself physically drained (perhaps because my chi is busy clearing out blockages?) and the thought of doing anything standing/moving/physical seems very exhausting.

Is that why you recomend doing a 3 to 1 ratio of standing to sitting? If you do too much sitting at first with out a strong jing base will be become exhausted from too much sitting qigong? Yet on the other hand I placed an emphasis on sitting so that I would not loose jing the obvious way (I had to get control of my urges).

Just curious how does standing/moving qigong build up the jing, what are the mechanics of it? What else does it do?

For up until about two weeks ago the vast majority if not all my qigong was standing/moving (8 brocades), yet I was not making much progress on the emotional/sexual side of things. Now that I have been doing a lot of sitting qigong I don't feel like moving or standing lol, or doing much of anyathing for that matter, I'm feeling pretty lethargic as of late.