Does sex degenerate your overall chi/shen to jing?

[nickyro]

Hello.

I know we have to conserve our jing, by avoiding ejaculation.

But:

-Does sex degenerate our whole hardly reffined chi/shen to jing?

 

-Does sex creates jing from nowhere or does it come from chi reffined from food or breath? Do we have an unlimited supply of potential jing awakened by sexual stimulation, or has it a limit?

If Jing come from a chi created by food/breath/sun or else, is Jing more sublte/reffined than this chi?

Does sexual stimulation degenerates this basic chi or sublimate it?

 

 

Because the consequences on daily practice would be different:

-to avoid ejaculation AND sex/masturbation + practice the COOL draw and not the big draw.

Or

-To practice sex with kareeza as frenquently as possible, with BIG draw.

 

We do have a method to sublimate sexual energy (mco etc...)and that is great, but I am affraid we do hinder our gains by decreasing our Chi quality each time we have sex/masturbation and creating a terrific amount of jing, then the only benefit of taoism would be to have more sex.

 

Your thoughts?

Edited August 28, 2010 by nickyro

[Maddie]

Hello.

I know we have to conserve our jing, by avoiding ejaculation.

But:

-Does sex degenerate our whole hardly reffined chi/shen to jing?

 

-Does sex creates jing from nowhere or does it come from chi reffined from food or breath? Do we have an unlimited supply of potential jing awakened by sexual stimulation, or has it a limit?

If Jing come from a chi created by food/breath/sun or else, is Jing more sublte/reffined than this chi?

Does sexual stimulation degenerates this basic chi or sublimate it?

 

 

Because the consequences on daily practice would be different:

-to avoid ejaculation AND sex/masturbation + practice the COOL draw and not the big draw.

Or

-To practice sex with kareeza as frenquently as possible, with BIG draw.

 

We do have a method to sublimate sexual energy (mco etc...)and that is great, but I am affraid we do hinder our gains by decreasing our Chi quality each time we have sex/masturbation and creating a terrific amount of jing, then the only benefit of taoism would be to have more sex.

 

Your thoughts?

 

I know Drew could answer this much better than I, but I'll give it the best shot I can based on my limited understanding of this topic. So sexual fluids are made out of jing. Jing has two sources in our body, pre-natal and post-natal. The pre-natal is what we are born with and it can not be added to. Post-natal jing is what we derive from food, and air. Texts on Traditional Chinese Medicine allow a young man to safely ejaculate more often than an old man because the young man has much more jing, and can replace his jing easier. So if you ejaculate too often based upon your age and level of health then your body will create sexual fluids not from your post-natal jing, but from your pre-natal jing. It is when you tap into your pre-natal jing that your health and longevity begin to deteriorate because it can not be replaced.

Now as far as I understand about conversion. I believe that any type of sexual excitement will cause your chi to become jing, and your jing to become sexual fluids. The reverse of this is turning your sexual fluids into jing, and then to chi, and later on into shen. Drew states that the best way to accomplish this conversion is to do full lotus, and MCO. Also it is important to not allow yourself to become sexually stimulated either, because this naturally converts chi into fluid.

I have also noticed from my own experience (because lately my hip joints are too sore to get into full lotus) that doing the cool draw from my testicles up the MCO to my dan tien and then doing reverse abdominal breathing in my dan tien also seems to be effective at converting this jing to chi. The process of drawing jing from the testicles seems to me to also automatically initiate a sexual fluid-to-jing sublimation as well. Then of course you want to safely store this extra chi in your dan tien.

Like I said I'm not an expert, but I told you what I know. If you want a better answer ask Drew lol.

[Birch]

I was just reading a special issue of "Scientific American". It's called "The End" (I should go put a song about that on my thread)

 

Aside from the issue of that title being a possible oxymoron (just wait, for the science wars are about to begin - if they are not already in full swing...)

 

Anyhoo. What one of the articles was describing was the shift from "reproductive" longevity to "body-maintenance" longevity. A sort of a lightbulb turned on in my head and I made the comparison between "reproductive" sexual acts and all the rest. It came (no pun intended) to me that male ejaculation would conform to a "reproductive" sexual act, whereas "body-maintenance" or "longevity" sexual acts would shun the "reproductive" act (i.e. "male ejaculation")in favour of longevity.

 

I'm not very sure how female sexual acts fit into this schema. As far as I know so far the only "reproductive" act a woman can effect is ovulation. I read (c.f. Immortal Sisters) that advanced Taoist practices for women involve stopping menstruation. Do such techniques also imply cessation of ovulation? It would seem that they might.

[Maddie]

Well I have a theory as to why this topic is so focused on here. I think due to the fact that sex in our society and culture is so warped, people seeking to improve themselves might instinctively feel the need to focus more on the bigger issues/problems.

Our culture pretty much teaches us that you can and should go around squirting like a super soaker and that not only is there no consequence but its good for you. Yet people who are sensitive to the inner workings of their bodies most likely feel that this is not the case.

Also it seems that much of the information out there on this topic is not very good which leads to further frustration for those that seek wisdom about this topic. So I think that with out considering any other factors these two alone combine to make the quest for good information about this a high priority.

One trend I've noticed on this forum and from personal experience is that women seem to be baffeled as to why men would be so concerned about such a thing. It is probably due to the fact that since women do not produce and loose semen they can not understand its incredible power upon the body and psyche. When ever I have mentioned to most women this topic they just look at me with "deer in the headlights gaze". On the other hand when discussing this topic with men (many of whom are not even familiar with this subject) many of them seem to instenctively become interested in it, most likely due to their instinctive self understanding that they most certainly are loosing something vital living the life style that society promotes.

As to female sexual cultivation I do not know much about this topic, but I guess I can see how stopping menstration would benefit a woman, for she looses jing not from ejaculation as a man, but from menstration and childbirth. As far as stopping ovulation, I have no idea if that occurs as well, but I don't think that it would have an effect upon jing cultivation because unlike the male who constantly is producing new sperm cells, the females eggs are already formed at the time of birth.

From my personal experience. Before I began to attempt this discipline sexual issues were a serious problem in my life. Like a lot of guys close to my age I was obsessed with sex, and it was a serious distraction and a loss of peace for me in my life. It was not until I began to learn about sublimating sexual essence into higher forms of energy that I finally began to find the relief from this issue that I had so long been seeking. So to make a long story short, I did not get into this because I wanted super powers, or the ability to shoot fireballs out of my nostrils, but simply because I wanted to be free of a very distracting obsession.

[Birch]

I wanted to be free of a very distracting obsession.

 

I can get that obsessions distract. But why specifically wish to be "free" from that one in particular?

 

I can think of a few reasons and so far IMO (and small experience) NONE of those reasons eem to be very beneficial to the practitioner. Although they might very well be to other people.

 

Gah. Just go away and be sexy with it.

[Maddie]

I can get that obsessions distract. But why specifically wish to be "free" from that one in particular?

 

I can think of a few reasons and so far IMO (and small experience) NONE of those reasons eem to be very beneficial to the practitioner. Although they might very well be to other people.

 

Gah. Just go away and be sexy with it.

 

I wanted to be free from "that particular" obession, because that was the one that I had. lol

 

I've had people ask me "so what the problem then". I guess its like this.... Think of your favorite food, you just love this food, it tastes sooooo good. Now imagine if you were tired to a chair, your mouth forced open, a funnel shoved down your throat and you were force fed this food until you were sick. Would it still be fun then?

Edited August 29, 2010 by dmattwads

[Birch]

"Think of your favorite food"

 

- I don't have one

 

"you just love this food, it tastes sooooo good"

 

- lots of food tastes great. Nothing wrong with food IMO - well, lots is wrong with food but I try to make sure the food I eat is ok.

 

- Now imagine if you were tired to a chair, your mouth forced open, a funnel shoved down your throat and you were force fed this food until you were sick. Would it still be fun then?

 

- No. Of course not.

 

I guess I equate obsession with NOT getting whatever you want. I'll need to go away and equate all that

[Maddie]

I guess I equate obsession with NOT getting whatever you want. I'll need to go away and equate all that

 

A day in the life of a sex obsession:..... ( ) = mental chatter.

 

Wake up, OMG I'm so horny, (have sex). Get ready for the day, shower (oh man shower scences are so hot) brush teeth, eat breakfast (forget about your breakfast cause you wonder what the news lady looks like naked) opps spill coffee on yourself for daydreaming about the news lady. Head off for work, get in the car (mmmm having sex in cars is hot), start driving (oh I wonder what that lady in trafic next to me looks like naked, on and that one, or that one, or...) oh red light (red light districts are hot). Get to work (I wonder what the receptionist looks like naked) fast foward through work with pondering what just about every decent female you see or think of looks like naked and ponder how she performs in bed, and what position they all like, ect... Get home, yay time to have sex again, finish having sex, eat dinner (oh I wonder what I could use this sauce for). Check email, (oh lets take a peek at Slutty Suzzies web site real quick since we are online anyhow) 2 hours... time for bed, have sex again and go to sleep and have dreams about all the other women you wish you could have sex with.

Edited August 29, 2010 by dmattwads

[Birch]

A day in the life of a sex obsession:..... ( ) = mental chatter.

 

Wake up, OMG I'm so horny, (have sex). Get ready for the day, shower (oh man shower scences are so hot) brush teeth, eat breakfast (forget about your breakfast cause you wonder what the news lady looks like naked) opps spill coffee on yourself for daydreaming about the news lady. Head off for work, get in the car (mmmm having sex in cars is hot), start driving (oh I wonder what that lady in trafic next to me looks like naked, on and that one, or that one, or...) oh red light (red light districts are hot). Get to work (I wonder what the receptionist looks like naked) fast foward through work with pondering what just about every decent female you see or think of looks like naked and ponder how she performs in bed, and what position they all like, ect... Get home, yay time to have sex again, finish having sex, eat dinner (oh I wonder what I could use this sauce for). Check email, (oh lets take a peek at Slutty Suzzies web site real quick since we are online anyhow) 2 hours... time for bed, have sex again and go to sleep and have dreams about all the other women you wish you could have sex with.

 

Nothing wrong with that IMO

 

Alright - I'll be serious. What is wrong with any of that?

[Maddie]

Nothing wrong with that IMO

 

Alright - I'll be serious. What is wrong with any of that?

 

A. It's definately not condusive to a good marriage i.e. (wanting every woman you see)

 

B. The feeling of not being in control of yourself sucks.

 

C. Getting old fast (thats if you squirt too much) and having low energy sucks.

 

D. It does not promote LOVE, rather it keeps you in the LUST cycle.

[Birch]

A. It's definately not condusive to a good marriage i.e. (wanting every woman you see)

 

B. The feeling of not being in control of yourself sucks.

 

C. Getting old fast (thats if you squirt too much) and having low energy sucks.

 

D. It does not promote LOVE, rather it keeps you in the LUST cycle.

 

A) I read Witch's book on this stuff and it was very interesting. Still, if you believe certain things about a "good" marriage then, oh, I dunno. Look at that stuff? Sometimes I think that marriage is made to take people "out" sexually.

 

B)The feeling of being in control of yourself is IMO tenuous and illusory at best. But IMO and small experience "knowledge is power". If you don't dig yourself as a sensuous guy then by all means find ways to emotionally/nutritionally/psychologically/professionally/socially reduce/castrate yourself. What a waste IMO

 

C) What is it about "squirting" that makes you "old"? See my post above about the "Scientific American" - it could be, it could be that "reproductive" sexual acts "point" the organism towards death and that "non-reproductive" sexual acts do the reverse. But that would be IMO, pretty lame as a deduction.

 

D) Hum. I don't know a great deal about "LOVE" except that it feels nice. "LUST" is IMO and small experience pretty much a feeling of "empty" but I'm only speaking from my own experience.

[Maddie]

A) I read Witch's book on this stuff and it was very interesting. Still, if you believe certain things about a "good" marriage then, oh, I dunno. Look at that stuff? Sometimes I think that marriage is made to take people "out" sexually.

 

B)The feeling of being in control of yourself is IMO tenuous and illusory at best. But IMO and small experience "knowledge is power". If you don't dig yourself as a sensuous guy then by all means find ways to emotionally/nutritionally/psychologically/professionally/socially reduce/castrate yourself. What a waste IMO

 

C) What is it about "squirting" that makes you "old"? See my post above about the "Scientific American" - it could be, it could be that "reproductive" sexual acts "point" the organism towards death and that "non-reproductive" sexual acts do the reverse. But that would be IMO, pretty lame as a deduction.

 

D) Hum. I don't know a great deal about "LOVE" except that it feels nice. "LUST" is IMO and small experience pretty much a feeling of "empty" but I'm only speaking from my own experience.

 

Which book did Witch write about marriage?

[Birch]

Witch's book isn't exactly about marriage BUT she writes about her and other women's experience of sex inside (and outside) marriage. Ask her about it. I think her book is great.

 

If you would like a very "marriage"- friendly book then check out Gottman.

 

If you would like a love-people-sex-friendly book then check out Deida or ask Mal and Cat.

[NeiChuan]

Gah. Just go away and be sexy with it.

 

 

hahah

[LBDaoist]

A day in the life of a sex obsession:..... ( ) = mental chatter.

 

You've described my own experience to a T. A sexual compulsion comes from the same place and carries the same energy as any other compulsion. Compulsions are a distraction and scatter the mind. A scattered mind leads to scattered qi.

 

I believe that sex can be an energy neutral event. There are tales of Taoist sexual practices, double/dual cultivation and the like. Women are often referred to as yin and man and yang. The two can exchange and balance each other. Having said that, excessive anything leads to disaster and ruination.

 

Free sex with everyone in the content of a relationship can often lead to problems. Relationships often include other dynamics like children and the establishment of a home. Any acts that destroy the trust of the foundation upon which home and family are built should be ignored, and allowed to vanish from the mind.

 

It all comes down to what a person wants from life. I believe that compassion and respect are important. So long as we all treat each other with compassion and respect, with the intent of encouraging each other to be the best that we can be, then there will be positive outcomes from our interactions.

 

To loop back around and address the original question, ANYTHING can degenerate your chi. Even a perfect practitioner of Taoist arts will not be able to escape the ebb and flow of nature. There are high points and low points, just as summer and winter exist. Acts that are okay at one time may be harmful at others. Stripping off all of your clothes and jumping into the river at the height of the summer heat is probably a good thing. Doing the same at the apex of a winter blizzard probably isn't. Pursing sex (or anything) to the point where the mind obsesses over it probably isn't a great idea. Being receptive to it and engaging it when the opportunity presents itself probably isn't so bad.

 

As far as I've been able to tell, to walk the path carries one ever closer to the mechanisms of life and death. Sex is one of those mechanisms.

[Astral_Anima]

OP- yeah i've noticed this as well. I actually quit all sexual stimulation (including visual/mental) for 5 weeks and just yesterday decided to revisit it to see how it affected me. After about 10 mins of visual stimulation I already was begining to feel drained. Just mental arousal in and of itself is draining (for me), as for actual physical stimulation and ejaculation...it's just so unsatisfying. Like...there's sensations there and they're slightly pleasurable, but the sensations aren't the drive, i've noticed there's some kind of mindset or trance or maybe some etheric/astral device that causes this "urgency" almost, like a complete takeover of the rational mind (depending on your mental fortitude). Afterwords however it's just the most unfulfilling thing ever (for me). It's like the pleasure comes from depleting yourself (and interesting note i'll now elaborate on).

 

It seems in this culture self-destruction is the new craze. We all get off on killing ourselves slowly. The food we eat (lots of cooked meat, pastas, sugary things, fried foods, cooked foods in general (which is a belief of mine) ), the things we watch, the words we say, the things we do, the things we think. When one really evaluates how one spends one's time it's really rather pathetic (or so i've found in myself). However when I starts eat healthy, exercising, watching my language, refraining from wasting energy on arousal or draining emotions, there's almost like an "uncomfortablilty", like a restlessness...all this energy I don't know what to do with. I remember when I was 17 I was living on only a few pieces of fruit a day and sum nuts/oil every now and again and I had so much energy I went from inactive to running 5 miles a day and punching bag 2hours a day. Just the energy lost from digestion is amazing. I've found certain foods take more energy to break down then they give me in the end. Potatoes, pastas, pastries, meat, eggs,etc. While other foods like fruits and nuts give me energy and don't take alot to digest. Just that energy alone is amazing. When you observe other areas of your life and make better choices based on becoming more energy efficient then ejaculation is a hinderance, as is all most stimulation.

 

At the same time though I'm not sure about tantra, there might be something in that.I remember the first time I had sex with a girl we had to cut it short 9bout to get caught), but I had never cum and I was fasting so I wasn't "leaking" either, but when I left that encounter I felt ENORMOUS amounts of energy spiraling around me for hours afterward. I think I one can master semen retention then one is good. Unfortunately when most of us even get mentally aroused we have that "leak" which saps energy (from my experience). Perhaps in the midset of "love" rather than "lust" such a problem can be transcended?

 

observe yourself. abstain and re-sensitize, then indulge and PAY ATTENTION!

 

Kate- I know it's tough to see this from a guy's perspective but for one who wishes to cultivate it's a completely diff world. And if you're uncomfortable with the idea due to your own unconquered lust then just imagine a guy who retains, learns tantra, then learns to last indefinitely. hmmm, squirting after 5-10 mins then drained or lasting hours and feeling energetic...which do you think you'd want?

 

-Astral

[Astral_Anima]

As a side note for replenishing sexual fluids, sprouted pumpkin seeds are the best. They contain high zinc content (2/3rds of which you loose with each ejaculation), sugars, protein and plant hormones/DNA. Bascially resupplies you with everything you lost. Chia seed is also another good alternative, but much harder to sprout.

 

Also doing leg and lower abdominal exercises seem to work well for me at building sexual energy. Wall sits/squats are best (for me), but also running, ZZ, and leg lifts. Sometimes when i'm laying down my body will spasm, my back will arch then cave in where my shoulders and tailbone stay on the ground but i'll raise and lower my abdomen spastically and i'll feel great energy moving around and i'll feel rejuvenated afterward.

 

just thought i'd throw that out there

 

-Astral

[betwixter]

-

Edited September 12, 2010 by betwixter

[Birch]

"Kate- I know it's tough to see this from a guy's perspective"

 

I actually CAN'T I'll try.

 

"but for one who wishes to cultivate it's a completely diff world."

 

Looks that way.

 

"And if you're uncomfortable with the idea due to your own unconquered lust"

 

- Oh, it's not conquered at all, but i don't mind it anymore. It's there with the other stuff.

 

"then just imagine a guy who retains, learns tantra, then learns to last indefinitely. hmmm, squirting after 5-10 mins then drained or lasting hours and feeling energetic...which do you think you'd want? "

 

From the guy's POV I'd prefer the energetic feeling for sure. I just still don't "get" why the guys have to retain. I know at the beginning of KAP practice - the feelings felt too much and I HAD to circulate otherwise I couldn't do anything else because it was bugging me too much. But I wonder if that's not just because we have been taught that to feel this way is a "no-no". Finding the sensation "acceptable" was IME as important.

[Astral_Anima]

"Kate- I know it's tough to see this from a guy's perspective"

 

I actually CAN'T I'll try.

 

"but for one who wishes to cultivate it's a completely diff world."

 

Looks that way.

 

"And if you're uncomfortable with the idea due to your own unconquered lust"

 

- Oh, it's not conquered at all, but i don't mind it anymore. It's there with the other stuff.

 

"then just imagine a guy who retains, learns tantra, then learns to last indefinitely. hmmm, squirting after 5-10 mins then drained or lasting hours and feeling energetic...which do you think you'd want? "

 

From the guy's POV I'd prefer the energetic feeling for sure. I just still don't "get" why the guys have to retain. I know at the beginning of KAP practice - the feelings felt too much and I HAD to circulate otherwise I couldn't do anything else because it was bugging me too much. But I wonder if that's not just because we have been taught that to feel this way is a "no-no". Finding the sensation "acceptable" was IME as important.

 

Haha, well we dont HAVE to retain, surely 80%+ the population doesn't. However for one who wishes to cultivate energy it allows one to do so quickly. U don't understand why we have to retain because you don't experience what we do. For the most part when women experience orgasm, they become more orgasmic, thus once they've had one it's easier to give them another, it also tends to become more intense. For guys it's the opposite, once we ejaculate are arousal drops, whereas a womans arousal increases. Therefor when a guy can learn to orgasm without losing his arousal then he and his partner can explore ecstasy together.

 

There's a theory that I heard which states that ejaculation and menstruation is a symptom of toxicity. Now i haven't explored it enough to support or refute it however I've noticed that my urge to ejaculte is increased ten-fold when i'm on a diet with alot of sugar and other bad foods. I'd assume since 2/3rd of a man's zinc supply is lost with each ejaculation that overdoses of zinc or perhaps overdoses of protein and sugar (some of the main components of seminal fluid) could cause the body to use ejaculation to expels excess. Idk how that works exactly.

 

Also acceptance of such pleasure is another HUGE problem i think, especially for guys. Being the control freaks we are it's tough to "let go" and "surrender" to a feeling as strong as bliss. I agree with that point 100%.

 

-Astral

[Everything]

Been reading a bit on this topic, found some wild ideas and terms I'm not familiar with. So here's my personal believe on this, originally created by Erik von Markovich the worlds number one venusian artist.

 

So... Sex/reproduction/socializing is good. Eating/surviving/working is good.

 

You probably already know that, but your body is called human. Humans survive, make babies and die. However, if your replication value is going out of the roof amd it affects your survival value in a negative sense, you must consider The MARTIAL ARTS for balancing S&R value(Survival and replication value). For someone who has low replication value must consider practicing the Venusian arts.

Venusian arts = Replication value

Martial arts = Survival value

 

Good example is Bruce lee. He had great survival value, but also he was famous and had great replication value, he was also a very good venusian artist next to the fact that he was a martial artist.

 

Not to forget: one can apply martial arts/art of war even on business! And venusian arts also on friends.

[gendao]

A. It's definately not condusive to a good marriage i.e. (wanting every woman you see)

 

B. The feeling of not being in control of yourself sucks.

 

C. Getting old fast (thats if you squirt too much) and having low energy sucks.

 

D. It does not promote LOVE, rather it keeps you in the LUST cycle.

A. But it's great for women who use sex as currency to manipulate men with!

 

B. But great for women to control you with!

 

C. Hey, if that's good enough for most Americans, then that's good enough for YOU! Why change? *burp*

 

D. Exactly! Lust is the leash that women use to control men with! They are used to men acting like starving puppies ready to jump through any hoops to get some! As soon as they make a suggestive flirt with you, you're supposed to start drooling like a rabid Pavlovian dog automatically ready to do their bidding!

 

But, if men start thinking that the hidden sacrifice is not worth it except for procreation with a select few...then how will the rest retain their control over men?

I think any woman who cares about you would support your higher aspirations. Whereas those who care about keeping you in their sexual bondage will feel threatened by your liberation. Like a drug dealer whose clients are going clean!

Nikola Tesla was brilliant. And not just like Ken Jennings brilliant, either - I mean like, "holy crap my head just exploded (from all the awesome)" brilliant. The Croatian-born engineer spoke eight languages, almost single-handedly developed technology that harnessed the power of electricity for household use, and invented things like electrical generators, FM radio, remote control, robots, spark plugs, fluorescent lights, and giant-ass machines that shoot enormous, brain-frying lightning bolts all over the place like crazy. He had an unyielding, steel-trap photographic memory and an insane ability to visualize even the most complex pieces of machinery – the guy did advanced calculus and physics equations in his damn head, memorized entire books at a time, and successfully pulled off scientific experiments that modern-day technology STILL can't replicate.

 

He was also asexual and celibate for his entire life.

Edited August 30, 2010 by vortex

[Maddie]

A. But it's great for women who use sex as currency to manipulate men with!

 

B. But great for women to control you with!

 

C. Hey, if that's good enough for most Americans, then that's good enough for YOU! Why change? *burp*

 

D. Exactly! Lust is the leash that women use to control men with! They are used to men acting like starving puppies ready to jump through any hoops to get some! As soon as they make a suggestive flirt with you, you're supposed to start drooling like a rabid Pavlovian dog automatically ready to do their bidding!

 

But, if men start thinking that the hidden sacrifice is not worth it except for procreation with a select few...then how will the rest retain their control over men?

I think any woman who cares about you would support your higher aspirations. Whereas those who care about keeping you in their sexual bondage will feel threatened by your liberation. Like a drug dealer whose clients are going clean!

 

 

Well put, well put indeed. I've noticed in real life and this thread shows as well, that guys tend to see the wisdom in this, and females tend to think its retarded lol.

[Astral_Anima]

This attachment is for vortex...

 

Also it's quite possible to reverse the "lust leash" if you know a few things. Women have the ability to feel such pleasure that their eyes roll to the back of their head, uncontrollably spasm. You do that to them and they'll be addicted to you. Unless of course they have a strong will or enough energetic development, but most women have neither (from my experience).

Edited August 30, 2010 by Astral_Anima

[Maddie]

This attachment is for vortex...

 

Also it's quite possible to reverse the "lust leash" if you know a few things. Women have the ability to feel such pleasure that their eyes roll to the back of their head, uncontrollably spasm. You do that to them and they'll be addicted to you. Unless of course they have a strong will or enough energetic development, but most women have neither (from my experience).

 

 

LOL OMG that poster was hilarious, yet true. It reminded me of watching those nature shows when the males animals go bezerk during mating season fighting over the females.